BS: UFOs in the news

Subject: BS: UFOs in the news this week
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 01:38 PM

and they haven't raised an eyebrow. ho hum
Katy Couric said the word UFO in primetime for the first time without any laughter or tittering in the studio.

The unidentified "space debris" spotted during the recent Shuttle mission may have been many things but it was not a zip lock bag, nor was it close.

Also there is talk of a disk being explored at the bottom of Lake Superior by a private recovery team.

If incontravertible proof of a ufo were to be broadcast world wide at this time, it is my belief it would take a back seat to the rest of the world's woes in the news. It might make the front page once but within a week it would be on page 32.

I had lunch with an esteemed and scholarly mudcatter BillD this week, and the only subject he did not find worthy of discussion was the ufo phenomenon.

Since I personally knew the author of Project Blue Book, the man who coined the term close encounter of the third kind, Professor Emeritus in Astronomy and Astro Physics at Northwestern University, Allan Hynek, as well as having some unique experiences of my own, the subject of ufos is a perfectly legitimate field of inquiry.

It does however seem to have become a far less inflammatory subject that it was even ten years ago when the media was presented with trying to explain the Phoenix lights.

Back then I recall The Today show's Katy Couric interviewing an entire family of 5 who witnessed the event and cut off the father after only 5 seconds and then turned the segment over to a professional debunker for the remaining 4 minutes.

In the spirit of leaked memos du jour, I think the time is right for truthful disclosure.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 09:46 PM

*grin*..well, it's not that I don't think it's worth of discussion, Don...I just have 50 years of disappointment about 'confirmed' incidents!

Being an old sci-fi nut, I'll be the first to shout in glee if one IS found! ...at the bottom of the lake, in a hole in Arizona, sitting on the White House lawn, or anywhere else!

I saw the what-ever-the-heck it was in the space station video, but there is SO much loose junk in space now that I just shrugged. (we skeptics are required to shrug a lot...it's kind of a recognition signal...like a secret handshake)

I DO agree that "the subject of ufos is a perfectly legitimate field of inquiry.".....we need to check out weird 'stuff', even if it turns out to be more tests of stealth aircraft...I just have to be convinced that it's more than that.

But, you know...it might be that we were visited MANY years ago, because I took this picture myself of a petrified one a few years ago on a beach.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Sep 06 - 10:54 PM

"You shrank it?!" she asks in shock and disbelief.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:59 AM

Did anyone else see the programme a few months ago about the Apollo moon missions?
The astronaughts said that on the way to the moon they saw and filmed a bulbous object on a similar course. The film was shown.
They did not openly report it at the time, but sent a message asking how far away a jetisoned booster was, knowing it was thousands of miles away.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:11 AM

The woman passenger on the Soyuz trip might have something to say.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:32 AM

I disagree Donuel.
If there was an incident which provided absolutley incontreviable proof, it would be the lead story for weeks. It just needs to be absolutly iron cast, dead certain proof. Not lights in the sky moving fast, or strange radar contacts, but something a half mile wide in the sky over a big city, in daylight, moving slowly enough that eveyone could get a good look at it, and get their cameras out.

I personally think if extra-terrestrials existed anywhere near the earth, in a form capable of travel and recognisable to us as life, they'd be here already. A few centuries ago, people reported seeing angels in the sky. Nowadays, a smaller proportion of people in the west are religious, so the cast about for another belief to attribute these things to. That, and we have rather more aircraft, satellites etc than we did in 1750...

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:00 PM

A few centuries ago, people started reporting aliens landing from strange ships and wearing really weird hats of an unknown metal. and somehow blending with four-legged organisms when traveling, for speed, and then un-blending at will, and wielding very advanced weaposn that worked on some kind of principle of sound and light energy combined. Wiser heads, of course, dismissed these fanciful, superstitious tales, until the Conquistadors actually rode up and killed them.


A

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 12:53 PM

Heh! Excellent example, Amos. People always seem to figure they already basically know about all the stuff that's worth knowing about, and the rest is sheer nonsense. It's the standard reaction to unusual possibilities or unexpected information.

Maybe they are already here, Bun, but keeping a rather low profile. I would do so if I was them, because Earthlings are extremely dangerous at this point in our social development. I would take a quick look, and get the hell out. Perhaps they are merely observing us (as we might observe a colony of unusual but very dangerous animals), and waiting for us to move beyond the social stage of being violent, aggressive adolescents who spend a sizeable chunk of their material and financial inheritance every year planning on how best to commit mass murder upon each other.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 01:04 PM

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
                                    Arthur C. Clarke

too bad the Mayas didn't have Clarke to explain the implications.


So far, our knowledge of physics doesn't tell us HOW it would be possible for other beings to traverse interstellar distances, or, given the odds, how they might stumble on us. Therefore, when I see reports of 'interesting' sightings, Occam's Razor tells me that a betting man would be safer to put his money on 1)optical illusions, 2) fakes, 3)Something built by US, but being kept secret, 4) real objects, but mistaken IDs, like space debris from satellites....etc...

#3 seems to be a real possibility for a few of the sightings, given all the tests and projects we have spent billions on for 50 years.

It is 'possible' that aliens who would rather not be seen are out there? Yeah, I guess so, if you force me to admit that it is 'possible' that there is relevant physics that we simply don't understand yet. But 'possible' doesn't make me willing to bet that way.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: 3refs
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 01:07 PM

This stuff just facinates me! Spirituallity, Quantum Physics, ET's! So neendless to say I have lots of "ya but's, what if's, according to who's!
So now that I've opened myself up alittle I'll say this; ET's? You betcha! Spirituallity(something greater than our physical being)? I believe! Quantum Physics? Theoretically!

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 01:16 PM

It isn't a question of betting. One bets when one knows that a verification is guaranteed in order to settle the bet. It's just a question of considering that there IS a possibility of something, that's all. In other words, keep an open mind about it. There's no useful purpose served by simply rejecting things out of hand, but most people seem very inclined to do just that with anything that they consider unusual.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 02:20 PM

sure, LH..I know that 'bets' aren't likely to be settled soon. I was just trying to give a flavor to my mindset. Contrary to some people's ideas, it IS possible to be a sceptic AND maintain an open mind. ;>)
At least that feels better to me than saying "Oh, wow, a lot people have made interesting observations, so it MUST be true!"

"It takes a well-balanced man to sit on the fence."
                  Bill D., 2006

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM

For sure.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: pdq
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 02:27 PM

However, you eventually get a sore butt.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 02:35 PM

YEah, butt....

A

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 03:23 PM

Yeah, well, there are worse ways to get a sore butt than sittin' on a fence.

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:02 PM

Amos, your example is weak. The fact alone that Little Hawk considers it excellent should be a warning signal. So you know at least one instance where people have dismissed wrongly a perception. Good for you. What does it tell us? Nothing. I could give you a dozen examples where people dismissed a perception correctl or where people acted upon a perception which turned out to be wrong.

Would that be a good argument? Of course not. And even if we tried to better the quantity of examples of the respective other with success it still would not be a good argument.

So lets agree that historically there have been examples where people have erred in trusting their perception and tzhat there have been examples where people hvae erred not trusting their perception. OK? Then we do not need quoting these examples as if they were good examples (appealing as they may be to the Little Hawks).

The valid way of arguing is to try to make athe point why one of these two erros is more likely here.

Wolfgang (in a bad mood for having read too many stupid Shambles' posts)

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:14 PM

A talking razor, wow! :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 04:59 PM

Wolfgang, why not just wait until your bad mood passes before saying crummy things like that? How would you know that "I alone" like what Amos said? You are making grand assumptions, and they come across as snide and superior. You're saying, "Look how much wiser I am than that fool, Little Hawk". That is what Skeptics do all the time to other people, and that's why I really do not like their attitude.

I don't KNOW that there are alien ships that have visited the Earth. I just think it fairly likely that there have been, that's all.

I do know that most people have a strong resistance to change, and to new information that they didn't think of themselves. Conservatism is natural in people, and in animals too (I say that from a long acquaintance with pet dogs and cats...they hate and deviation from acquired habit, and almost always resist it strenuously).

Mental habits are just as tenacious as physical ones. The skeptic is someone with very strongly set mental habits that he has allegiance to, and he seeks endlessly to defend them. All people seek endlessly, in fact, to defend their strong mental habits. You do. I do. Everyone does.

I'm not asking you to believe in anything I believe in (or think probable), I'm just asking you to show more respect to other people, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:33 PM

tsk...Wolfgang didn't say that 'LH alone' likes Amos' idea...he said "The fact alone"....which, of course is still a tweak at LH...but different..*grin*

In fact, if the Mayas had not been wrapped in their own self-reinforcing theology, and had examined the circumstances carefully, they could have seen that Cortez and crew were not mystical beings with magic, but humans to be carefully watched....hence my earlier post.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 05:41 PM

You're right, Bill. He said "the fact alone". ;-) Still, I wish he would give up the habit of pissing on my tree every time the subject of UFOs or anything similar comes up.

The Aztecs (not Mayans)...did figure out that the Spanish were as you say, only "humans be carefully watched"...they just didn't figure it out quite soon enough, that's all. Too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 06:47 PM

Regarding an earlier statement that science today does not have the means to describe let alone create craft that travel at incredible speeds while remaining outside the bounds of crushing G force inertia...

Not true.

We can describe, test and prove that mass can be put into higher wave functions that reduces their inertial effects as well as reducing the effects of gravity by at least two different means.
What we do not have is a self contained power plant to produce the "gazillion volts/amps" to do it, and even if we did, the damn thing could be far more dangerous than nuclear power.

"Opps Detroit has been pulled into a singularity mishap today , thousands flee to Traverse City..." being rid of Detroit might be OK but dealing with a huge power source for the first time is clearly a hazard.

Observations are helpful despite all the problems they present so,

Remarkable personal observations aside...the uncommon phenomenon continues to be observed.



As to how it does what it does I am reduced to intuition.

My imagination predicts that:)
The centrifugal forces of high speed paricles around the perimeter of a flying disk or diameter of a flying cylinder is one kind of anti grav device while the high speed drive is entirely different.
It's a long shot wager but thats how I picture it.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:24 PM

Ach, Wolfgang, you have misconstrued the very premises of my post. It was not offered as a persuasion in the defense of some assertion that there are UFOs, but merely a rhetorical device because it has so many elements in common with the present circiumstance. Of course, the species as a whole has interpreted conditions correctly, more often than it has interpreted them incorrectly-- or at least, would have a higher weighted score for right decisions of importance than wrong ones. I know this because the species has survived and multiplied, which is the test of good decision making. That does not mean that all decisions have been right though.

And that does not mean one should not draw from the example I offered, and similar examples throughout history -- including those who have lived through the advent of authoritarian power-mongers such as your people and mine have both suffered -- the lessons of a certain humility and a willingness to double check one's premises about what one believes one is seeing.

A

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:37 PM

And always keep in mind that someone else may know something you don't know or may have had experiences you haven't had.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:37 PM

hmmm...and any idea how high speed particles would be sent around the perimeter of a disk? and why that would produce anti-gravity?

(I'll confess, I do NOT understand even the theories of how mass-energy manipulation can do this sort of thing....and, as you say, Don, we don't have...so far...the technology to control stuff like the wave forms of matter....at least safely.)

I sure wish they'd figure it out before I go....

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:45 PM

It was spring of 1970 an' Lisa Hadley and I were, ahhhh, "parking" on night just miles from the CIA headquarters off Old GeorgeTown Pike which runs from Langley, Va. to Drainsville, Va.... It was clear moon lit night and we were lookin' toward the Potomac River when...

... there it was!!! No bull... A flyin' saucer... We both say it for well over 10 seconds before the it flew behind the tree line... And, yeah, it looked purdy much like other ships that others have spotted except we were close enough to it to see quite a bit of detail, including lightes windows and the counter clockwise rotation...

Lisa's father, by coincidence, worked for the CIA and a couple days later I vsited her and she said that her father had told her that she couldn't see me anymore and she didn't want to talk about the incident... M ight of fact, she didn't want to talk about anything and gave me the "bum's rush"...

Now I don't know if I'm reading too much into her actions or not but I do know what I saw and am would be willin' to take a poligraph on it otr be hypnotized to get more details...

Bottom line: They exist!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:50 PM

Heh! I can just see some sailors in the days of Sir Francis Drake, trying to imagine how a combustion engine or a turbine could work.... Good luck.

What if there are beings out there whose science is as far beyond us as ours is beyond that of the Dark Ages? What if they can easily visit a thousand or ten thousand worlds, and ours just doesn't rank all that high on the list of importance, but is worth a quick look at now and then?

What then?

I think our ability to even consider such things in an even-handed way is greatly hampered by our view of ourselves as the center of the Universe, and that, frankly, is how most people see it, whether they know it or not. Humanity is egocentric. We're like a bunch of beavers in a little isolated pond somewhere, with our silly little religions, our silly little political struggles, and our delusions of grandeur.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:53 PM

UFO's and God exibit about the same amount of reality correct? Very few people have seen either one and the rest of the world doubts those who say they've had contact with He/She/it.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Grab
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 07:59 PM

That is what Skeptics do all the time to other people, and that's why I really do not like their attitude.

No it isn't. What sceptics do (UK spelling, but a rose by any other name ;-) is ask the question "what's the most likely explanation for this event, based on evidence available for the various possible explanations?" Someone who says "I won't believe regardless of evidence" (per Donuel's initial assertion) is an atheist, not a sceptic.

The problem with UFOs, the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot is that although there are a zillion people who say they've seen them and a zillion bad photos of them, there's not a right lot of hard evidence. There *is* however a lot of hard evidence of cases proved to be caused by sleep disturbance, hallucinations and straightforward lies. Inventing wild ideas is great, but contact with reality is required. Many scientists dislike other scientists for showing that their pet idea is rubbish, but if that pet idea was rubbish then that's what needed to happen. Mediaeval religion and witch trials is a good example of what happens if you base your actions on wild ideas and apparently-logical steps which take you to an obviously-false position.

But note the "evidence available" line. That means we do need to get proper investigations (and some honest reporting of the results) if wierd shit shows up. Currently I'm not sure we do get that. And one reason is...

3refs: "This stuff just facinates me! Spirituallity, Quantum Physics, ET's!" All three of these are valid things to investigate, sure. But this is precisely the problem that many sceptics hit with UFO fans - it's very common that UFOs are part of an "alternative" view that groups UFOs with spirituality and other semi-religious beliefs. For anyone interested in evidence-based stuff (ie. the rest of the world), this is so clearly a bogus situation that you'll basically be written off (rightly) as a nutter. And people doing this have basically corrupted UFO study for everyone else, which is why most people (not unreasonably) consider anyone interested in UFOs to be a loony until proven otherwise. Yes, this is a sweeping generalisation, but sadly it's based on a certain amount of reality.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:00 PM

Bobert, I used to hypnotize hundreds of people for a video tape anthology project for these kind of experiences.

Of all my unusual sighting experiences the most bizarre I had took place in Wheaton MD. As the triangular craft passed within 100 feet of the roofline of our garden apartment, my wife and I sensed danger and we both came off the 3rd floor porch and sat down while a deep electrical throbbing humm penetrated everything in the room.
We remained silent and continued to listen to what seemed like an immense dynamo. No crackling sparks or shocks but we definetly felt electrified. The sound is still clear in my mind and reproducible.
There were few if any high frequencies.

Get this, we didn't discuss it after it passed.
In retrospect that seems so wierd to me now that I can not explain our behavior.

USually people say the events they witnessed were without sound.
Not true for us that time.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:08 PM

Well, going by your description of what skeptics do, Grab, it's clear to me that I must be a skeptic. ;-) Cos those are the things I do.

GUEST - Naw...way more people believe in God than in UFOs. Anyway, how do you define "God"? Does God have to be something someone sees? I don't think so. How exactly would you go about seeing something that is infinite and omnipresent? ;-) It would be impossible to see anything that has those characteristics, because it would simultaneously be everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 08:13 PM

Put it another way: If I believe that God is existence itself...how could I possibly NOT believe in God?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:13 PM

well, that is certainly correct, Little Hawk....but it sorta dilutes the common notion of what 'God' is, doesn't it?

You define it rather like a tautology, you get valid reasoning with no discernable content.

No law agin' it.....

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 06 - 10:14 PM

In Wheaton, huh? And you didn't CALL me? *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: 282RA
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 12:35 AM

I think neglect of the discussion of UFOs would be a great detriment to our knowledge. I lean strongly towards this being a psychological phenomenon that may have a physical component, now if only someone would explain what that means.

Basically, if you were able to prove beyond all doubt that UFOs were NOT vehicles from another planet, visitors from other dimensions, time machines, or secret govt aircraft of any kind; I think there is little doubt that we would still be deluged with reports about UFOs and being abducted by creatures, etc. Just like Yeti sightings and Mothman or what have you. Some part of our mind govern this. That's why I think you have Yeti-dropping-from-UFO-type sightings. Some kind of psychological regurgitation from our dream state that intrudes into the waking state.

Then again how many UFO sightings can be called real? I recall this murder case concerning some young blonde lady who disappeared with her car--a red one with license plates that said "LIL MISS." A cop had given her a ticket at around 9 PM or something and it was recorded and she was identified as the person the cop had stopped but after that, she was never seen or heard from again. For months, the cops implored people to be on the look out for this girl and her car. Calls constantly poured in. People saw the car everywhere from Canada down through Florida. It always caught their eye because the LIL MISS license plates intrigued them. Always, there was an attractive young blonde lady behind the wheel who takes no notice of them.

But one day, the cops get word about this suspicious guy who had, a year before, dug a big hole on his property and filled it in the next day. Neighbors thought it suspicious. When the cops dug at the spot, they found the entire car with her body in it--the girl with LIL MISS liscense plates. It had been buried for a year and yet during that time, cops were constantly getting calls from people who just passed that car on this or that highway in this or that city. She was like some weird Flying Dutchman.

How much of what we see is only what we think we see?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: GUEST,3refs
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 09:21 AM

Grab
I didn't intend to lump the three together(UFO's, Quantum Physics, Spirituallity). I said they facinate me!

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: GUEST,3refs
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 09:53 AM

Mode of transportation has been discussed.

Light? Is it a wave or a particle? We now know it's both!

I can't remember who or where(right now)but replicated experiments with light proved that light particles could be in 2 different places at the same time. No smoke and mirrors!

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:15 PM

Well, y' know, I can only go by my own experience on this...other people are welcome to their opinions, but I don't know what they base them on, so what can I say about it, really?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:32 PM

aww *smile*...Little Hawk! Some of us have tried to explain what our opinions were based on....have you forgotten so soon?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:40 PM

No, Bill, I mean in general....as I go through life...not as regards specific people on this forum. We've all talked this thing into the ground long ago here, and it hasn't altered anyone's opinion.

Only their own direct experience (or maybe an official announcement by some prestigious authority system over the general media) is going to alter anyone's opinion here about this matter.

Until then, it's just more of the same-old, same-old around here. We might as well all be sleepwalking.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 02:42 PM

oh, I know...LH, I know! *smile*...was just being...ummm....me.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Oct 06 - 04:46 AM

It might be time to point out that you can never know what a UFO is. And it can never land.

It's just a matter of logic. If you knew what it was, it wouldn't be unidentified. And if it landed...

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 03:39 PM

LH, you are quite touchy on these subjects but on the other side deal out snide and uninformed remarks about skeptics. But I agree that saying that if you welcome an argumentation is a warning signal was not really nice. I'll try to be nicer from now on.

Amos, your argument would be a strong one if your opponent would categorically exclude the possibility of UFOs being extraterrestrial spaceships. I don't know such people.

I consider it as nearly certain that life also exists somewhere else. I consider it probable that intelligent life has developed elsewhere. But I am much less sure that it coexists at the same time. Maybe, any intelligent life will destroy itself within a relatively short time. They would need completely different laws of physics and/or extremely large sources of energy. That would make good weapons too. If they are remotely similar to us, they would use these weapons sooner or later. If on earth we would develop a weapon that could destroy the planet in a second and if this would become available it would be a matter of hours before the first nutcase would use it. So far, we can say that intelligent life understanding some laws of physics and being able to manipulate large amounts of energy has existed for say 200 years.

The question is how probable it is that UFOs are foreign spacecraft. I know a lot of the UFO-lore and it is enraging to see that even long debunked myths are still reported by believers as if they had never read the alternative explanantions (actually, they may have never read them, for the UFO-lore literature mostly does not mention alternative explanations, whreas the skeptical...).

So, for most of the reports there are good explanations. Are the remaining 5% spacecrafts? Not very likely in my eyes. Unexplained phenomena they are but it would be argementum ad ignorantiam to choose one particular explanation as likely.

The reported behaviour of the UFOs is so unlike any real expedition or reconnoitre that it makes no sense to me. Over many decades, they come to the Earth and are only seen under quite dubious circumstances instead of openly (and fearless, for if they could manipulate energy in a way they would have to in order to travel that far we would be no danger to them) telling us they are here.

Finding evidence of other life outside of the Earth would be the most interesting finding I could dream of (I hope I live to read of this finding), but if intelligent life would visit us closely it would be an Earth shattering experience witnessed by millions and the first news for a month or so.

Until then, I consider the idea the most likely that UFOs are just the interpretation of someone who doesn't know what he has seen. They may not even be flying or objects. I have seen about a dozen UFOs in my life. In all but one case I later (sometimes only seconds later when the plane changed direction) found out what it was that I could not identify. And in the last case? I don't know. Period. I sometimes walk in the woods and something moves and I don't know what it is. I can live (and die) with the feeling of not knowing everything. Shrug. No big deal.

But I read a lot about human perception (the area of my dissertation) and on that subject I am that someone else (who) may know something you don't know. And I am wary of hypnose therapists who believe the stories they are told. I think Mack is the most prominent name here. He is not taken serious by most scientists.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 06:58 PM

There are very few non fiction ufo books.
I wonder if the book Uncommon Flying Ojects is still available?

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:09 PM

Okay, Wolfgang. ;-) You're right, I am extremely touchy about this subject, for reasons that go back almost 40 years.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Amos
Date: 14 May 08 - 03:06 PM

British Government Releases UFO Files.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 08 - 03:09 PM

Cool. Thanks for the link, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 08 - 04:34 PM

Amos, I have some airline pilot radio recordings of flights encountering UFOs. The show was called black box communication but had no co oberating photos.

Also I listened to 3 airline pilots discussing the same ufo encounter one night 6 years ago on the Art BEll show.

Fascinating and compelling stuff. Its good that English is required for pilot communication.

France is supposed to be next to release their ufo files.

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 May 08 - 05:06 PM

'Way back at the beginning of this thread, a year ago:

If incontravertible proof of a ufo were to be broadcast world wide at this time, it is my belief it would take a back seat to the rest of the world's woes in the news.

The release of the UK UFO files -
The release of the statement by the vatican on "Virgin Mary sightings" -
The current news on the Myanmar cyclone disaster -
The current news on the China earthquake -

All came AFTER THE HEADLINES on whatever that sports(?) deal is that's going on somewhere(?) at yesterday's MSNBC news site.

(Just so you all know what's important.)

I really wish I knew why the sports (I'm pretty sure that's what it is?) thing is so important, and what it's all about; but I seem to suffer from a failure of comprehension resulting from a recently named syndrome called "IDGAS."

But others must have a better understanding than I do, so I won't ridicule them or question their concerns.

John

Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 14 May 08 - 05:58 PM

If there is intelligent life elsewhere, why would they want to talk with us.

What about Shag Harbour, and the shag Harbour incident? Maybe they just want to shag us?


http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/5309/shag.html