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BS: UFOs in the news
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 20 May 08 - 04:20 PM I never will understand folks who take the time to tell you they hate someone, but are too busy to explain....mostly they HAVE no good reason, but just have various prejudices. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Art Thieme Date: 20 May 08 - 04:48 PM I meant my post above. Check out the writing/work of Jerome Clark. His work on UFOs is what we ought to be talking about in this thread. I can't recall the name of his definitive work, but if you've not read it, look for it. (I'll get that info.) Seriously, I con't believe if you are interested in this topic, that you've not found the man already! Are you all pulling my leg? Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Date: 20 May 08 - 05:08 PM To point out the obvious, UFOs do exist! Otherwise all of the claims would have been logically explained. The ones that haven't might not have been little green men in extra-terrestrial craft, but they are indeed unidentified flying objects. What I find objectionable is that the skeptics aren't really skeptics. A skeptic would look for a rational explanation for the reported phenomenon while keeping an open mind about the possible outcome of the investigation. To paint with a broad brush, all of the skeptics I have come across are debunkers. They have already made up their minds that there are no other intelligent species in the universe than man. We're the only ones who exist and because we haven't figured out how to do the things that are reported, they can't possible have actually happened. There are a few things that make me believe that there is at least the possiblity of intelligent life in the universe coming to visit for whatever reason. One - any time there is debris associated with a ufo report, all of it is recovered by the gov't. Kecksburg and Roswell are good examples. If Roswell was indeed a secret gov't test designed to spy on the USSR bomb tests, they could have at least left the string and the balloon debris while recovering the classified stuff. Since they took every scrap it looks funny. No explanation was given for Kecksburg. Two - The Gov't goes out of it's way to overexplain to the point of using explanations that don't fit (swamp gas in an area that has never experienced it before (or since for that matter)) or the continued explanations for Roswell. Three - Gov't interference with reporting by military personnel and airline pilots. This might be explainable if what was seen was a military test aircraft, but over the years the gov't has never come forward and acknowledged that this sighting was in actuallity this test aircraft. Aside from classified missions (U-2/SR-71) I can't think of any reason the gov't wouldn't come out and say, "These sightings on this day were test flights of the F-117 or the B-2 bomber." Four - The continued denial that Area 51, Groom Lake exists! The worst kept secret of the US but it doesn't exist. Five - Plain mathmatics! A nearly infinite universe = a possibility of other life a percentage of which is possibly intelligent = a smaller percentage that is possibly more intelligent/advanced than we are = the possibility that they are exploring as we are attempting to do. Who knows when the next revolutionary break through will come and suddenly the things that weren't possible will be taken for granted as every day occurences. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 20 May 08 - 07:07 PM My feelings exactly, CC. They're not skeptics for the most part, they are outright debunkers, and their urge to ridicule and debunk is not driven by any rationality or logic, it is driven by an emotional need to control and dominate other people's views and perceptions of reality...and even of possibility. They are also so terrified of "not knowing" and "not being sure" about something that they will attack anything unusual by sheer instinct. In this respect they are not unlike those who went witchhunting for the Church in all those bloody centuries past. Their instinct is to silence and/or destroy anyone who does not parrot the official government and science line delivered by those in charge. Those in charge used to be the clergy at one time. They are now the government agencies allied with the official science, military, and medical communities. Same problem, same orthodoxy, different set of official autocrats in charge, that's all. They wear suits now instead of clerical robes. They ARE the modern day masters and servants of our version of the Inquisition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Date: 20 May 08 - 08:12 PM Pretty much my view. Except that I am military. The Debunkers get given evidence and then proceed to debunk the evidence, and if they can't, they attack the person that gave it to them. Just because the person reporting the incident is not a rhoads scholar with an impeccable family and millions in the bank, they aren't credible for one reason or the other. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 20 May 08 - 08:54 PM "Evidence" is something that we can all see...or that can be presented to a court, or shown to qualified judges...etc. "Well, there 'was' evidence, but 'they' are hiding it, and I can't ...ummm.. put my hands on it right now." Right...even *IF* that is true, it-don't-count!....Except as apocryphal anecdotes to convince those who wish to be convinced. Remember the "Nuclear cold fusion on a desktop" a few years ago? Remember a dozen cases of "perpetual motion machines"? Remember...no, you wouldn't...the guy who claimed he could season lumber with no cracking? Remember the Oak Island "pirate treasure"? Remember 'levitation' by Transcendental Meditationists..bouncing around on mats? Remember several groups 'finding' Noah's Ark? Remember the search for The Ark of the Covenant? (no, not Indiana Jones version). Some monks in Turkey were supposed to have it, but they won't allow anyone to see. ...for that matter, remember the X-ray glasses that would let you see thru girls clothes? I could make a list 6 pages long...some serious, some silly.(except that people believed them). Yeah, the govt. does test funny airplanes sometimes, and there are photos of Groom Lake and Area 51. I would not expect anyone to talk about it much if they want to keep their job. I had an Uncle who worked in San Diego making blueprints in the aircraft industry in the 1950s. The VTO planes had just been shown publicly (didn't work real well)..He told me he had known about them for years...and he said "If I told you what we're working on now, you wouldn't believe me!" But with these things there is eventually proof and de-classification. Are there designs adapted from 'captured alien ships'? Or actual alien ships? *shrug*...I'll wait & see, 'cause the premises of how they GOT here are kinda vague. Oh, by the way...remember how Peach pits were supposed to cure cancer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Date: 20 May 08 - 09:09 PM Bill, The gov't shows up and takes all of it. Every scrap! How is anyone supposed to give you proof if the gov't keeps taking it? And even in a court of law, photographs and testimony are considered evidence! Not every murderer is convicted with a dead body, bullet, gun that fired it, fingerprints of the suspect on the gun, and two dozen eye witnesses with a videotape showing it as well! And I was talking about planes that are now unclassified! All they'd have to do is say yes, we had test flights at that area, at that time. They'd not be revealing any secrets whatsoever! And peach pits do cure cancer...Permanently! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 21 May 08 - 09:19 AM "To paint with a broad brush, all of the skeptics I have come across are debunkers. They have already made up their minds that there are no other intelligent species in the universe than man." I'm a sceptic (UK spelling) and I certainly haven't made up my mind about "other intelligent species in the universe than man". As far as I can see there's no evidence either way - so no basis for making up my mind. I'm a bit closer to making up my mind about conspiracy theorists and UFOlogists though! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Donuel Date: 21 May 08 - 09:22 AM peach pits do have a significant quantity of arsenic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Donuel Date: 21 May 08 - 09:48 AM When my career was primarily hypnotherapist, I helped re-live memories for people who were referred by Allen Hyneck (Astro Physicist at Northwestern and director of Project Blue Book) and Daryl Hardes (Rochester NY UFO group. The total number of filmed interviews and hypnotic sessions that I conducted were about 120. I also appeared on WTOP radio with my findings which introduced a 2 week long series of ufo testimony from experts world wide. Of those alleged witnesses of ufos who underwent hypnotic procedures some people were dramatic and some were unrespondsive but not one offered any incontravertible proof of thier experience or suddenly recovered any significant suppressed memory as in the Betty and Barney Hill case. Dr. Mack of Harvard carried out similar sessions to the extreme numbering close to 1,000. Dr. Mack was killed 2 years ago in London in a pedestrian accident. Allen Hyneck died of a brain tumor of unusual origin and Daryl Hardes has also passed. I am still here and I conclude that the abcuction accounts are a psychological phenomenon when a person is unable to awaken themselves voluntarily and are temporarily stuck in between wakefullness and sleep. The wide awake accounts and photos of an exceedingly rare phenomena is both reliable and important. As to what they are and how to inform the world is the debate that we should be having. I often say there are NO believers, there are only witnesses and non witnesses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 21 May 08 - 10:12 AM Chief Chaos...the very notion that " The gov't shows up and takes all of it. Every scrap! " is, itself, a conspiracy theory! It is a built-in way to avoid having to deal with all the OTHER possible answers to a puzzle. If you start looking at THAT, you get even more puzzles. Just who are these amorphous folks who " ..show up and take all of it...?" There must be hundreds, if not thousands of them, and 'they' have been at it for years. 'They' get old and retire, and over the years some of 'them' would have regrets and do some confessing, or just let slip what they did. NO form of secrecy is absolute when that many people are involved. To believe this theory requires even more suppositions about recruiting, families, competence, funding, storage of evidence, chain-of-command (who is in charge, and who do 'they' report to?). I am a skeptic because I SEE the circularity of these arguments and the complexity of contrived hypotheses needed to justify continued belief. **NOTICE**...once again...this does not mean I am denying that any of these stories are true, but only that I require some 'evidence' beyond what is usually dished up. I am aware that 'circumstantial evidence' is often used in court to corroborate other evidence, but there are pretty high standards for what counts. and as for peach pits *sigh* Why isn't Johns Hopkins using them in its cancer center? Never mind...I know...another conspiracy...because .... the pharmaceutical companies don't want competition. They want ALL your money for their dangerous and often worthless crap. For some reason, "The Boy Who Cried "Wolf" keeps popping into my head. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 12:02 PM Yep, there are witnesses and non-witnesses. That about sums it up. The attitude of many non-witnesses seems to be, "Don't tell me about anything that I'm not willing to consider as possibly being real, because I don't want to hear about it! You must be one of those tinfoil hat types, those crazy conspiracy nuts." Evidently they would rather remain exactly as they are, believing only what they already believe, and they'd rather that the rest of the world remained that way too. ;-) They are bothered by things they haven't thought of themselves or experienced themselves, therefore they assume those things cannot possibly have any validity or reality. It's a natural form of conservatism in people. Dogs are like that too, but on a bit simpler level. As long as you don't change anything, they're happy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 12:17 PM Bill, a number of those former military personnel HAVE had regrets and HAVE done some confessing about assisting in coverups of UFO evidence, and HAVE let slip what they did...and it's on the record. Somehow it has escaped your notice! ;-) My guess is that you never bothered to look for it. Did you know that one of Canada's former Ministers of Defence, Paul Hellyer, is one of the most notable such people, and that he has held public talks about it at places like the University of Toronto, stating openly that the government knew about alien vehicles before, during, and after his term in the Ministry, and that they ARE covering it up? Paul Hellyer is a very smart and well-spoken man. He's not your "tinfoil hat" type of guy at all. He's eminently believable and well-qualified to have an opinion. Anyway, it makes no real difference, because as usual it gets little or no attention from the mainstream media (a 30 second clip once on Canada's national news) or the official government authorities...almost no one hears about it except those who are already really deeply interested in the subject of uncovering the UFO information, and the coverup continues...unbroken and undisturbed. It was as if Paul Hellyer had never said a word about it. I have told you again and again that OF COURSE it is not possible to shut up EVERYBODY....but who cares? If a few people talk, but 99% of the public never gets to hear them and the mainstream media just ignores them....then how is the coverup threatened? You don't need to fool everyone in a mass media society to maintain a coverup, you just need to fool the great majority of them at any given time, and keep their mind on other stuff...like the latest Hollywood movie, Paris Hilton, the latest shocking crime, the war in Iraq, the American election...whatever. Just ignore what you want covered up, and it remains covered up. Just ignore it in the mass media. If you need to now and then, make fun of it so no one takes it seriously. Dead simple. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 12:31 PM Here are some links about Paul Hellyer: http://www.ufobc.ca/Beyond/exopolitics.htm http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8964281348675417592 http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3e57926c-bfeb-4ff3-acf6-50c575ee996c Now, go ahead, Bill. Watch it all. Read it all. Then debunk it, nitpick through it, search around for some objection you can find to it. Suggest to me that Paul Hellyer is a liar or is senile. Or else prove to me that you don't have an entirely closed and prejudiced mind on this subject, and treat the matter in a fair and balanced fashion...which it deserves. Surprise me, Bill. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 21 May 08 - 04:58 PM I'm reading.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 05:25 PM Great. There's a lot to read. Now keep in mind who Paul Hellyer is and was. He was Canada's Minister of Defence. That is the same thing as your USA Secretary of Defence. He has led a Canadian political party in more recent years, the Canadian Action Party, and it was the most progressive and courageous party platform I ever saw presented in this country. He is our counterpart to Dennis Kucinich, in effect. He is a highly respected, highly educated man, and in my opinion he's one of the finest and most honest men ever to serve in the Canadian government. His opinion bears great weight, and you have to consider his tremendous courage in presenting such unconventional views in a public forum and risking all that that it can entail in terms of ridicule, disparagement, and misinterpretation. Our mass media gave barely a mention to the talk he gave at U. of T. in Toronto. It got a brief clip on the TV and radio news, and a small story tucked somewhere in the back of the daily newspapers' current events section. They treated it with noncommital nonchalance for a day. That was it. No follow-up. No analysis. No nothing. Naturally the only people who remember it now are the people who were deeply interested in the subject in the first place and the people who were at the event. The rest of the public has forgotten all about it, if they ever even noticed it at the time. That's how you maintain a coverup. You just make sure that the general public doesn't hear about something often enough or loudly enough in the mass media that they would give it any importance...or any credence. You utterly bombard them, on the other hand, with what you DO want them to pay attention to. And if you want to know what that is...hell...just watch the 6 O'Clock News any day of the week. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 21 May 08 - 05:37 PM Done reading...trying to watch video. (They could use a little help in capturing audience attention! ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 05:47 PM Yeah, I guess... ;-) What they need is the kind of publicity work that goes into promoting a show like American Idol. Or Hockey Night in Canada. Or raving on about Reverend Wright. That sort of thing. You know, things that really matter. (grin) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Donuel Date: 21 May 08 - 05:55 PM Most people don't seem to know of the life forms in their own locale let alone from another star system. It should not be a surprise that the need to know agout exoexotic life has become a rather elitist affair. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 21 May 08 - 05:57 PM well...I'm up to the part where Hellyer ridicules the US government and 'loads' HIS claims by Well, let's see where he takes it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 06:51 PM We either ARE or ARE NOT allowed to hear the truth, Bill. What makes you think he would not draw attention to it if we are NOT allowed to, and what gives you confidence that such a situation just could not be? What accounts for your great trust in the supposed veracity and openness of our governments regarding these and many, many other matters? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: bobad Date: 21 May 08 - 06:54 PM Hellyer was defense minister so presumably he had access to information from intelligence and military sources yet he presents no evidence, merely speculates - why is that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 06:56 PM I couldn't say, but perhaps you will get a chance to ask him that if you attend some talk he gives. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 21 May 08 - 07:24 PM As usual, he 'states' that vested interests in the status quo are conspiring to hide evidence of alien technologies...presumably until THEY control it and can exploit it for profit. This is, of course, a plausible theory, as greedy companies are widely known for manipulating information to enhanve their own situation. The question, of course, is whether there is IN FACT information on E.T. technology to BE manipulated. ........so 40 minutes later. After the babble of Hellyer and a couple others, we get to Dr. Greer, who comes as close as anyone to making a coherent case for even considering these claims. **IF** he has real evidence for what he asserts, it does show a problem with access to whatever truth there may be. I am not sure how I would go about evaluating Dr. Greer's claims. ...and I see there are 20-20 MORE hours of videos one can watch. I can see how total immersion in these things could begin to compel the mind to make links....but it still remains that part of the compelling nature is the insertion of pretty obvious 'truths' and hard-to-dispute probabilities in between highly speculative guesses in such a way as to appear the everything supports everything else. (It would take me...literally...a few hours to give all the examples and draw all the connections necessary to be as clear as *I* would like to be.) In the pages I read, after seemingly reasonable ramblings, I found this: "UFOlogy has not made great strides in finding conclusive, unambiguous evidence for the ETH (Extra-terrestrial hypothesis) or any other theory on the origin for unexplained UFOs. Despite this failure, many UFOlogists have evaluated the evidence and concluded for themselves that the ETH is the most likely explanation for the phenomena. Given the potentially serious implications of this hypothesis, it makes sense to seriously investigate the potential implications of this hypothesis and to seek answers to the following questions: Who are the visitors? What do they want from us? How are our governments reacting to this presence? Are government agencies hiding information about UFOs from the public?" ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow....such a lot of embedded assumptions. Those 'questions' are thinly disguised assertions! I see all those videos, and the urge to view all of them...and digest & evaluate them is only tempered by my NEED to concern myself with my upcoming festival & craft show. Dr. Greer, in his story about briefing President Clinton and other top US officials, is most provocative...but I hear only one side of the story, and as a skeptic, I wonder if anyone else there remembers the exchange & relevance differently....that WAS quite awhile ago! I dunno,LH....as usual, there is stuff that warrants interest & concern, but testimony from 400 nice, honest folks about stuff they are sure they saw still does not tell ME what they saw, and that is IS genuine ET stuff, as Greer & Hellyer & others are flatly asserting! There are SO many *IFs* ...if there is alien technology about, and if we could talk to 'them', and if they'd give us some, and if we could use it sanely, then 'maybe' we could get beyond some of the problems we have....IF we are really able to correctly identify our relevant problems! If *I* were an alien, watching this strange civilization, I'm not sure I'd trust us with stuff like 'the power to move among the stars'.... So...my cold & cough (and my wife) demand I take a break... I try to understand....I really do. But I have seen so much garbage passed off as 'truth' and defended by inane conspiracy theories, that I remain VERY careful what I buy into. Maybe my place in all this is to test YOU and others about what really does pass for fact, evidence and good logic. *cough, cough*.....bye |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Ebbie Date: 21 May 08 - 07:31 PM "Maybe my place in all this is to test YOU and others about what really does pass for fact, evidence and good logic." Bill Ah. So that is what God put you on earth for! :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 21 May 08 - 07:33 PM "What accounts for your great trust in the supposed veracity and openness of our governments regarding these and many, many other matters?" what accounts for YOUR use of such language to describe...incorrectly...what my attitude and positions are? I NEVER said I 'trust' our various governments implicitly! Why can you not comprehend the difference between trusting THEM and just not totally 'accepting' all the accusations about them? Just when I try to SEE some of the evidence you suggest these guys offer, you again overstate how I view things. *cough, cough....grump* |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 21 May 08 - 07:37 PM Ebbie! tsk! (My son just told me a joke about the Evangelical who said..."We don't accept all those superstitions about witches and elves and other things...God manages it all quite nicely") |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: bobad Date: 21 May 08 - 07:43 PM Hellyer states that he believes governments are covering up knowledge about alien visitors yet he was a member of the government in a position to see this information - something don't add up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 21 May 08 - 08:39 PM I don't think Paul Hellyer himself became convinced about alien UFOs until sometime after he had serves his stint as Defence Minister, bobad. In any case, I didn't expect my links to change anyone's opinion here, because I know that changing most people's opinion about anything is a far more daunting prospect than changing a tire... ;-) But I was countering Bill's completely unfounded assumption that former government and military people do not surface with claims about UFO coverups. They do. Quite a few of them do. It just doesn't get remarked upon or covered in the mainstream media when they do. It gets ignored. They might as well be yelling in an isolation chamber for all the notice they get. Now, as to Dr Greer, he has a very interesting website called "Disclosure Project" and you will find much more material on that about former government and military people who have testified before Congress about a coverup of UFO information and about their participation in covering it up, etc. Enough reading to occupy you for weeks, I should think. Yes, some of these people have had regrets and they have talked. It won't convince you of anything, I'm guessing, but it will keep you busy for awhile... ;-) Nothing will ever convince you of this except an official public admission by the government over the mass media to the entire nation. Therefore they continue to control your mental agenda, whether you will admit it to yourself or not. Oh, one other thing will convince you....a direct encounter of your own. I hope you have one of those soon and I hope it's a real up-close one too. I'd love to see your faces then, I really would. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Amos Date: 21 May 08 - 10:47 PM A Synopsis of the Alien Master Plan has been made available from http://www.montalk.net/alien/35/synopsis-of-the-alien-master-plan. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Ebbie Date: 21 May 08 - 11:38 PM LOl, Bill- and I apologize! Drat. I can't find it now but I think it was in this thread - Did anyone else read the accounts of the incidents at Falcon Lake(?) and Slate Lake (?) that Little Hawk (I think) linked to? Most interesting; I've forgotten all the identifiers but I do remember the important parts. *g* |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 22 May 08 - 02:10 AM Here is another excellent video of Dr Greer addressing the National Press Club (in the USA) and presenting a long lineup of witnesses from the FAA, military, etc.... Description attached: "A large number of ex high ranking officals including air traffic controllers, ex secret op. officers, commercial pilots, numorous military defence specialists with top secret clearance, people who had access to very sensitive documents lieutenants, ex commanders in the u.s airforce, astronauts,etc... all going befor ethe national press club to discuss what their experiences have been regarding u.f.o's and all are willing to go before congress to testify under oath.. never before has such a group come forward.. this is a must see it is long.. extremely informative and enlightening." Here are your expert witnesses, Bill, all of them willing to testify before Congress and present their evidence. One thing that is made quite clear in this tape is that the coverup is NOT being orchestrated by most of the people in either the government or the military, most of whom are just doing their jobs and are wholly or largely unaware of the ET/UFO coverup. The coverup and the relevant information is not in the hands of the ordinary government or military. It is in the hands of very specific covert top secret agencies of the CIA and military intelligence (Black Ops as they are sometimes referred to). Those people act as a secret government within the government, they are apparently answerable to no one but themselves, and they are unofficially financed to the tune of many tens of billions of dollars a year, not officially recognized in the government's budgets. They are above the law, they are not answerable to the president or anyone else, they are a law unto themselves, and it is they, not the ordinary government or military people who have controlled this situation and orchestrated this coverup ever since the late 40s. It's on their desk, supposedly in the name of "National Security". So, you see, it does not require muzzling nearly as many people as you imagine, Bill. It's a relatively small and very highly organized group of intelligence operatives and their bosses who are in charge of this ongoing situation, and they are, in effect, untouchable. They are to our society as the KGB was to the Soviets, only perhaps even more so. They are a shadow government, one you don't get to vote for or even hear about normally, and one that can do any damn thing they decide to. They are doing the coverup, not your elected representatives or your ordinary military officers, most of whom know little or nothing about the situation. There have most likely been presidents who were completely out of the loop on this one too. They were simply not briefed on it at all by the covert agencies. It was not deemed expedient to tell them about it, because they might try to interfere if told what was going on. You won't believe any of that. ;-) Fine. Why should I care? Just watch the video. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 22 May 08 - 02:11 AM Sorry! Forgot to post the link. Here it is... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1225940639035132599&q=&hl=en |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 22 May 08 - 04:41 AM "peach pits do have a significant quantity of arsenic." Cyanide. Wow, that 'Alien Master Plan' looks really scary. Be afraid ... be very afraid!! OK, just quiver a little, then ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Stu Date: 22 May 08 - 05:20 AM Hearsay, the lot of it. Not a single solid shred of evidence has ever been shown, put in a museum or made available for serious objective study. There is no evidence anyone can bring forth to support the claim UFOs have anything to do with extraterrestrials or that an alien being has ever set foot upon this planet. Taken from Amos's link: "Evidence is everywhere – from worldwide religious and mythological accounts commonly describing ancient encounters with advanced beings, anomalous archaeological sites and artifacts indicating past use of superior technology, over a century's worth of eyewitness sightings of UFOs, hundreds of physical trace samples recovered from UFO landing sites, government documents and whistleblowers acknowledging the existence of extraterrestrials, and thousands of abduction cases that include multiple witnesses, memories recalled without hypnosis, and undisputable physical and medical evidence confirming these accounts." This statement is a pile of utter rubbish - show me now this"undisputable physical and medical evidence . . . Tell me where I can see it - not a photo, but the real thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Donuel Date: 22 May 08 - 08:27 AM hypothetical: If you had technology so advanced it was virtual magic... you wouldn't display it either...unless you are ignorant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 22 May 08 - 11:15 AM I am eternally (or until the aliens get us) grateful to Amos for that link. I had not realized until I read it just how pervasive the threat was! I shall now retire to the basement, block out the windows, and view all 167 hours of videos I can access through Little Hawk's links and learn all I can about this insideous, multi-dimensional menace.....but I guess I need to head to the store for several extra rolls of heavy-duty foil first. but, how can I be sure the foil manufacturers are not already co-opted! Obvious, foil hats are not working for many of those using them! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Stu Date: 22 May 08 - 11:15 AM It simply doesn't wash, all this conspiracy theory. It's too convenient to say there is a big cover-up and that we're all being kept in the dark. I saw a couple of UFO's when I was a teenager. One was a sighting five of us all watched from the top floor of our school, which we reported to our science teacher, who had a brother who worked in the local air traffic control who confirmed the object had been picked up. But so what? It might be an alien spaceship, but it could have been any number of other things too. No physical evidence - that's the truth of it; apply Occam's Razor, and the whole alien/government theory just doesn't stand up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Jack Blandiver Date: 22 May 08 - 11:30 AM On the wall of my studio I had one of those old X-files posters of the UFO with the words I Want To Believe, which just about sums up my approach to UFOs. Ever since childhood I've wanted to believe in the ETH (Extra Terrestrial Hypothesis) but the more I've seen, and the more I've read, including everything said & linked to in this thread, the more I become convinced that it's all just so much horse shit. Like ghosts - ever watched Most Haunted or any of the such-like programmes that litter the sky-channels these days? I used to believe in the supernatural until I started watching those... That said, from where comes our ability to fear such things if they don't exist? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 22 May 08 - 11:32 AM I suspect that they'd just cut themselves on Occam's Razor, see blood, and assume that was just another example of the threat & the conspiracy. To be serious, I have almost quit suggesting Occam's Razor, as I don't believe that most of those who need to apply it see the real relevance and significance of it. It is treated as if it were just some silly aphorism or quotation...like "step on a crack, break your mother's back." but I DO like the aphorism "Never try to teach a pig to sing...it wastes your time, and it annoys the pig." |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 22 May 08 - 11:54 AM Ha! ;-) I'm not the least bit afraid of the UFOs or the ETs. I am afraid of our own Earth-based paramilitary and security organizations such as the CIA and similar outfits. I am afraid of covert government operations, that's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of homo sapiens, Bill, not of aliens. Got it? stigweard, the people who have the verifiable evidence in their possession are the very same people who are maintaining the coverup. They are the people who arrive, in force, with unchallengeable authority, and they take the evidence away when there is any to be gotten. They give the orders. You obey. There is plenty of physical evidence, but you are never going to have the satisfaction of seeing it, nor is the general public or the press or even most people in the civilian government or even most military people. It's top secret, dummy!!! Why would they show it to people like you, me, and the newspapers? Why would they publicize it? They don't want it publicized. You and Bill are two "pigs" that I will always enjoy annoying by attemting uselessly to teach you to sing this particular song. Thanks for that thought, Bill. ;-) Your lack of respect for my intelligence and objectivity I return to you with a blown kiss. Here's the link again, a video with the witnesses who appeared before the US Congress meeting the National Press Gallery. You don't hear a peep about it in the mass media, do you? Just more pigs who apparently cannot be taught to sing in the mass media, I guess. Good little piggies! Believe what Big Brother tells you and keep lining up in a docile fashion at the trough. Dr Greer and 21 witnesses address the National Press Club |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Jack Blandiver Date: 22 May 08 - 12:16 PM Why the cover-up though? If these things really existed, surely no amount of cover-up could possibly conceal them? Seems you ETH guys need the security blanket of Conspiracy Theory to cling to in the belief that government is more effective than it actually is. I dare say most of you believe 9/11 was an inside job too, right? With the planes guided by alien technology no doubt... |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 22 May 08 - 12:25 PM I'm not saying the government's all that effective. I'm saying that the CIA and its covert paramilitary operatives are effective. I think the government's in a state of confusion, frankly. And, yes, I do think 911 was very probably an inside job. And the planes were probably guided by the very well-known technology we already have that can fly any airliner or any large plane entirely by computer from the ground from the time it takes off till the time it lands (or is made to crash), and can execute any maneuver desired with no difficulty whatsoever, including extreme aerobatics such as those needed in the Pentagon hit. It's a known technology. It can easily be done. No hijackers were ever needed to do that. Chew on it. You could just as well be wrong about any of this as I could. Neither one of us knows. We only can hypothesize about things we cannot know for sure. That's the part you will never even imagine or admit to. Your pride and ego won't let you admit to it. You have to be sure...and to be sure you have to ridicule those who think differently from you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Jack Blandiver Date: 22 May 08 - 12:46 PM I'm not ridiculing anyone, Little Hawk - no need to when the ETH is founded on something so ridiculous a notion in the first place. But I do think for myself, which is why I know the ETH to be 100% wrong, and also because I have no need to believe otherwise. Problem is, you ETH guys don't think differently, you all think the same; it becomes a matter of faith & strict orthodoxy complete with its own heresies & theology with no proof one way or the other. And yet you still believe it. Remind you of anything? Meanwhile, keep watching the skies! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Ebbie Date: 22 May 08 - 01:02 PM No, we don't all think the same. I, for one, have never seen the need to believe that the UFOs are EXTRAterrestrial. It seems likely to me that they are amongst us. 'Let he who has eyes to see...' Actually, I don't know. I know there are theorists who believe that 'aliens' live underground or underwater on earth. As I said, I don't know. Serious thread lurch here. Little Hawk, saying: "And the planes were probably guided by the very well-known technology we already have that can fly any airliner or any large plane entirely by computer from the ground from the time it takes off till the time it lands (or is made to crash), and can execute any maneuver desired with no difficulty whatsoever, including extreme aerobatics such as those needed in the Pentagon hit. It's a known technology. It can easily be done." makes little sense to me. Are you hypothizing that a computer took over the controls of the airliners, sending them miles off their course and taking X number of minutes before crashing them into buildings- and not one of the pilots was moved to, or had time to, protest? I have heard various people theorize that no hijackers at all were involved or present. You are saying that none were necessary. Are you saying that the pilots were, or would be, knocked out with noxious gases or whatever? I tell you what- when I get to the "other side" I'll send word. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Bill D Date: 22 May 08 - 01:08 PM No, Little Hawk, it is far from lack of respect for your intelligence. (and not all of my posts are implicitly directed at YOU.) As for objectivity, YOU are the one who continuously asserts that none of us are really objective...that we all interpret according to our own experience. I can debate that a bit, but not right now. Here's my dilema... Imagine two people accused of a crime. One says, "I didn't do it! I would never do such a thing!" The other says the same thing. Later, one is PROVED guilty by incontrovertible evidence, and the other exonerated. But until the **right** evidence is obtained, it is obvious that the guilty one would claim innocence as long as possible, but those trying to find the truth cannot ASSUME anything until that **right** evidence is in hand. I have no dog in this fight... I have not seen a UFO to explain. But I have this keen interest in the concept, coupled with my training in the search for truth & objectivity. as far as possible. So, when claims are made, I, just like authorities interviewing two accused criminals, MUST suspend judgment, and apply the best analytical tools that I can muster to guide me. So far, all they tell me is that, although there is MUCH to explore and worthwhile 'purported' evidence and accounts to examine, I would dare not take the evidence presented so far to a court & jury! For those who are convinced and sure that such evidence already exists, about the only disclaimer available is that "someone is hiding it". This is an almost automatic response. But then, they must explain the conspiracy, as well as the original claim of UFOs....and the problem for investigators and skeptics like me is to be willing to listen, while maintaining a high standard for real evidence. After all, those guys in the video were not ONLY making claims that 'something is out there', they were also touting the huge importance of it to the *future of mankind* and suggesting the alien technology is 'available' if we play our cards right....without any evidence that the aliens play cards! (and one of the purported 'proofs' that we need to listen to is that some middle-aged woman has been 'channeling' an alien ship commander!)....you'll pardon me if I hesitate. No, LH, I don't doubt your intelligence...and I don't doubt that you 'feel' that you are being objective. Those who claim the moon landings were faked make similar claims. What AM I to make of all the claims flooding in? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: bobad Date: 22 May 08 - 01:20 PM I saw some aliens today. They had morphed themselves into the humanoid forms of our terrestrial teenagers but were clothed in strange garments, had odd looking pieces of a metal-like substance inserted into various places on their bodies, had strange writing on their exterior, skin-like covering and spoke an alien language. They didn't appear threatening but I didn't attempt to make contact. I will be keeping an eye to the window and an ear to the door from now on though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Donuel Date: 22 May 08 - 01:38 PM (according to Col. Corso) Col. Corso was the key US military "go to guy" for the select disemination of exo technology to be "discovered" and then manufactured. There are 2 examples among many that his claims become far fetched if you have a true understanding of certain inventions and their inventors.. 1 the transitor 2 the laser PS Hawk: Bill has a life long developed social and intellectual niche in which he plays the role of a rationalist and skeptic. Sometimes he overplays his hand but usually he can offer a helpful lens to observe claims. Physical observation is not his greatest strength. I am not down grading the games that people play when they communicate but rather celebrate them. For example in the Jewish culture the art of argument is a well rehersed and often heated play of words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 22 May 08 - 01:39 PM I understand your perspective, Bill. But why do you find it so unlikely that people in the CIA and Black Ops and other such intelligence agencies might want, since the late 40's, to have kept the lid on their information about extraterrestrials? They could certainly have had strong motivations to do that, don't you think? And they have had the means to, because they have the authority to decide what's classifiable and what isn't. They have the authority to show up at a crash scene, for example, show their I.D. and command any police, civilian or military people who are there to do whatever they want them to do. They have the authority to take all recovered physical evidence to a sealed facility at some base and keep it there, investigate it, and disclose nothing to the public or to other levels of government. And I believe they have done so, consistently. Why do you find it so unbelievable that this could have happened? There have been quite a few witnesses to testify that it has happened, after all, but you don't seem to give those people any credibility. Why? I suggest because they aren't singing the tune that you most would like to hear. You can suggest the same thing about me. Fine. ;-) We both have a tune we like to hear. The thing is, either one of us could be right...or wrong. We do not know, Bill. I admit I do not know. Such an admission is a good place to start when considering possibilities. Ebbie - I don't know what happened on 911. I am simply saying that it is 100% possible to control and fly airliners by remote computer control and execute any known flight maneuver they are capable of by that fashion, very accurately...it has been done many times already in various tests of those systems (I've seen video of some)...and it can be done with ease. The technology is proven. It could have been done on 911. All available evidence from flight schools where the hijackers took flying lessons suggests that the alleged 19 Muslim hijackers who may or may not have been on those planes were simply not individuals with anything even near the flying ability to handle those aircraft as effectively as they were handled, particularly in the case of the Pentagon hit. Therefore, I am considering the other possibilities. In so doing I am, for many people, committing outright heresy...because I am challenging a popularly held viewpoint supported by mass media and government. That draws strong reactions from people. Well, I can live with that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs in the news From: Little Hawk Date: 22 May 08 - 01:43 PM bobad, it ain't the aliens you have to worry about. ;-) WE are the only real enemy we have. It's our own security and surveillance forces and police and military forces and financial pressure groups and criminal elements that you have to worry about in life...NOT the aliens. "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Donuel - Yeah, I know Bill does that. It's his chosen mode. I can think of worse modes a person could choose to be in. ;-) |
