BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 09:03 PM

"Fer Christ's sake, we are having an idle discussion like a bunch of people in a coffee shop somewhere. ;-)"

naaaww, LH...it ain't quite like that. In the coffee shop, people might wonder..."what if the CIA is really doing weird stuff with the drug trade? Why, I read something in that Mudcat forum that made me curious..."

That is a wee bit different from saying "The CIA **IS** doing this" or even "I believe the CIA is doing this."

It is when I am being **TOLD** that such & such IS true, and that I'd better wise up and pay attention, that I get my back up and start picking apart arguments. Curiosity and concern are one thing..(and there IS much to be curious & concerned over)...but blanket statements are another ("satellites ARE hacked!")...and reading back in this thread, I see many, many claims....not musings, *claims*.
   If all you wanta do is raise an issue, fine...I'll 'discuss'...but if you say "I believe" or "This is fact"...you need more than speculation based on ambiguous circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:29 PM

Jeeeezuz .... there he goes again.

....


ok, I'm outta this one for good.Honest.


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:23 PM

BODE LIVES......BODE RULES

CHEECH WIZARD FOREVER

...........Just tryin' to cheer the Hawkster up.........................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:21 PM

By the way, Don, since you are an American citizen, I follow your reasoning just fine, and it's pretty good reasoning. I agree with your analysis of the problems in the USA. I, however, am a Canadian citizen. I live next door to the burgeoning fascist monster that is your government, and I do not enjoy the proximity of it to my nation. That may account for some of the differences in our views. You want to do something about it because you ARE American. I get that. I'm not, and I am in no position to do anything about it.

Canada living next to the United States is like a small, basically fairly peaceful animal living next door to a hungry and possibly rabid tiger. It's worrisome.

But it has always been that way for small countries in the shadow of great powers. One makes alliances where one must, in order to survive, and hopes that the fire will fall on someone else's head. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:15 PM

'Fer Christ's sake, we are having an idle discussion like a bunch of people in a coffee shop somewhere'

I wish it was ... sometimes people just take things a bit too seriously.

so ... what really did happen the Lizard King???

.
.
.
ok ... I'll get out of this thread.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:08 PM

Bill, I am in no position to prove anything to anyone on this forum who disagrees with me about something, and I never will be. Nor will you. Get used to it. We are all just expressing opinions here, and thinking out loud. That's all it is. Fer Christ's sake, we are having an idle discussion like a bunch of people in a coffee shop somewhere. ;-)

If you don't see it my way, fine. No sweat. The world won't stop turning, and I will still die someday regardless. Ditto to Don and Artbrooks.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 08:04 PM

Ah, Don Firth. Love you.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 07:46 PM

I have heard for a long time that the CIA is deeply involved in drug dealing, and often finance many of their covert operations that way. Do I believe it? Yes, I'm inclined to believe it. Indeed, there is a lot of stuff that our beloved GUEST keeps posting that I think contains an occasional element of truth. At least to a degree.

Do I think the United States government is corrupt? The government, per se, no. Do I think a lot of high level politicians and government officials are corrupt? You betcha!!   

I've been saying for a long time that this country is one helluva lot closer to fascism than a lot of Americans are willing to believe. The intimate relationship between the government and the major corporations is one of the primary characteristics of fascism. I have often quoted Benito Mussolini's definition of fascism in these threads. I won't this time. I leave it as an exercise to those who might be interested to do some googling and read it for themselves.

Do I think this whole Iraq war is about oil? In a sense, yes, but not just to commandeer oil so that American oil companies to reap huge profits by selling it to American consumers. I think the point is to gain control of enough of the world's oil resources to be able to "influence" ("blackmail" is such an ugly word) other countries who are, as far as we know, short of such resources, into "being nice." But if, say, China were to discover a vast oil field in the Yellow Sea, just offshore from Qingdoa all the way down to Shanghai, for example, the whole game would change and the real purpose of the Iraq war would truly have been in vain. We couldn't shut their oil off because they'd have their own.

Do I think there are wealthy and powerful families who are trying to dominate international finance and trade? Damned straight it do. 'Twas ever thus. This is not news!! If these families ever decided to join forces, we might have a problem, but they're too busy jockeying with each other to be "King of the Hill" (to scramble a metaphore) to constitute a serious danger to the rest of the world. This, also, is old stuff.

Prison labor? Yeah, there's some of that going on. Where were your car's license plates made? Traditionally, by prison labor in some states. Comprenez-vous "chain gang?" You know:   lining track, breaking rocks, road repair, Leadbelly, "Take This Hammer," lotsa other good songs. . . .    Some states do have prisoners work to help pay for their keep, but then a prison sentence is not supposed to be a luxury vacation. I see nothing outrageous about this. But slave labor? Freakin' ridiculous! And concentration camps? During World War II, Japanese-Americans got a bloody rotten deal and the government's been apologizing for it ever since. Concentration camps now? The paranoid delusions of fear-mongers and trolls.

Do I think the country is in deep doo-doo? Yes, I do do. And I think we have to get active politically and change things. VERY active politically. But do I think we're DOOMED as GUEST troll keeps telling us with grim and vengeful delight? No. What makes GUEST troll, shall we say, "counter-productive," is that his elaborate fictions cloud the real issues and, if we allow them to, distract our attention from things that are really going on. And he tries to create the impression that there is nothing that we can do about them. Note the consistent lack of response when I ask "what do you think we should do?" This is obviously a person with a problem. He wants all his dire warnings to be true. He wants all those who don't take him seriously to "get theirs." He wants a bloody revolution. Very juvenile. Kinda sick, really.

By the way, the Kerry Commission investigated some of the dealings of the CIA in relation to drugs and they turned up quite a bit. The investigation, as far as I know, is still going on.

And, yes, it's that Kerry.

Take a nap. Go for a walk. Get real. Then, go to work. Politically. On your local level, where you as an individual can actually have an effect.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 07:36 PM

There were no concentration camps in Germany, either. Hell, even after the war no one knew about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 07:29 PM

remember...to be believed and convincing, it is not necessary to be right...you just have to have a certain degree of internal consistency, whether or not you have facts & reason on your side.

The philosopher David Hume managed to convince a LOT of people that Solipsism was the way 'reality' worked. Everything just might BE "only in your mind". Hume had a nearly air-tight way of showing his theory was 'correct'....very consistent internally.....after you accepted his (very suspect) premises.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 07:16 PM

" I'm not in a high enough position in this world to provide the proof you seek. If I was, someone would kill me."

right...why am I somehow reminded of the way my old Psych. professor described Freudian psychology? He took a pen and turned it over & over in his fingers, tapping it on the table.

"The Freudians," he said, "tell me that if I do this, it is something dirty."

He put the pen in his pocket. "But if I do this, I am repressing something dirty. They define everything so that they are always right."

(remember the 'conspiracy' to hide the 100 MPG carburetor? We don't have one, so it MUST be hidden!)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 06:16 PM

Now they we are really on the hot topic of conspiracy theories ... what really did happen the Lizard King???

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 06:09 PM

So it's all just rumor, then.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 05:27 PM

Yup, well that's fine. I'm not in a high enough position in this world to provide the proof you seek. If I was, someone would kill me.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 05:22 PM

On the basis of the principle of "innocent until proven guilty," I await some solid, credible evidence for these assertions.

It is not necessary, in logic--or in any court of law--for anyone the try to disprove an assertion. To be taken seriously, the burden of proof falls on the person making the assertion or accusation.

I see a whole lot of accusing going on in this and other threads, but I see little credible proof. And no, cutting and pasting from various blogs and web sites with obvious axes to grind not only don't count as proof, they tend to weaken the assertion because of their obvious bias.

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anybody else, but bullshit is still bullshit.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 04:15 PM

No Ebbie, I think there are only a relatively small number of key agents in collusion, certainly not the rank and file of the soldiery, and the normal workings of organized crime do the rest. The government only needs a small number of agents and commanders to move drugs in bulk to stateside, in unmarked or falsely labelled containers, using military aircraft. A few small elite units can do it. They then sell it in bulk to a few major criminal contacts in the USA, and from there it moves to the street. All those people can definitely be depended upon not to talk...because that is their job, and that's how they make a living.

From there it works its way to the street through literally thousands and thousands of dealers and suppliers who don't know exactly where it's coming from, and more importantly than that, don't care.

I don't regard the CIA as incompetent by any means...they just can't achieve the impossible. ;-) In other words, what I mean by that, is when a civilian USA government hands them a foreign policy objective (as in Vietnam, for example) that is totally out of touch with reality...they eventually fail to achieve it. That does not indicate their incompetence, it indicates the incompetence of their political commanders.

Moving drugs requires a small cadre of highly trained and absolutely ruthless people who will do what they are told and keep their mouths shut. That sounds like the job description of a secret service agent to me.

Money is the vital thing. If you have to raise large amounts of it fast and show no paper trail, drugs are the way to go.

It's simply Realpolitik, as always. The USA is not the only country that has done it.

The so-called "War Against Drugs" is not really a war against drugs at all...it's a turf war for who gets to control and distribute those drugs. That's why opium production has gone way, way up in the USA-controlled areas of Afghanistan since the recent war there began. Business is good.

And, yes, that's what I think. To KNOW it, I'd have to part of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 04:02 PM

"Nor can I be bothered learning the html codes to replicate it."

Actually LH it's not difficult at all ... more of a pain in the ass to use when posting ... especially if one is as sloppy as I am in my typing skills.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 03:51 PM

Sorry, LH, but it seems to me that accepting your basic premise that it is illegal drug money that secretly finances the USA to the tune of many billions of unaudited dollars every year, and it's channeled and controlled by the USA's secret service, the CIA requires that one first accept that an agency that is world-renowned for its basic incompetence is (1) highly competent in the very competitive world of drug smuggling and (2) has managed to make everyone except a few conspiracy theorists believe that they can't do anything right.

The rest of the statement, that the sources of most of the drugs are places in the Third World where the USA has fought or proxied dirty wars...and won them...in Central America and Afghanistan, for example may be partially true. That is, the US has certainly "fought or proxied" a number of nasty little "wars" in these places...dirty is subjective...but I'm having trouble coming up with very many that have been "won" except on a very short-term basis. Or is the success of Mr. Ortega and the resurgence of the Taliban considered to be part of the CIA plot?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 02:42 PM

Little Hawk, I agree that there are many things we don't know- and may not even be able to know. And some, no doubt, that we don't even want to know.

But beliefs still have to stay in the realm of possibility. And I say: If the USA were doing what you say it is doing, it would mean that there are hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions, of ordinary people in collusion. Stop and think- do you believe that?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 02:29 PM

Oh, goody! More html I can't be bothered to learn. (One only has just so much time for things...)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 02:27 PM

AhhhSpaw Youhavelearned OldGrasshopper!!!

Warms the cockles of me heart... it does.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

BTW - World Vision is a wonderful Christian Organization - thousands of criminals may have donated to its cause - but that does not make it criminal - anymore than thousands of drunkards eating at the Salvation Army make there outreach an alcholic oasis... (Soup,Soap,Salvation)

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 02:26 PM

Well...okay...I guess you're just a tad more mature than most of us, Bill. ;-)

This thread is not about the most cheerful of subjects. Perhaps I should start one on dachshunds, and we can come back to this stuff after the holidays are over?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 02:02 PM

momentary? MOMENTARY???? I'll have you know I thought for.....minutes! before posting!

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 01:57 PM

It's lots of fun to type out one's momentary thoughts, isn't it? ;-) Addictive, in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 01:54 PM

remember our friend Cansouth?

He really got around....He never got around to telling US about his 9/11 theories, but he signed in at The Museum of Hoaxes to enlighten them! Did he ever buy one of your kits,
'spaw?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 01:34 PM

Get a life, Spaw. ;-) I can't even be bothered reading that shit. Nor can I be bothered learning the html codes to replicate it.

Yeah, Ebbie, I think that is what's going on, and I think it has been going on for a very long time. I have numerous reasons for thinking so.

It is not important whether or not that seems credible to you or Spaw or any other particular individuals on this tiny little unimportant Internet forum, believe me.

None of us can do a thing about it anyway. We are all getting old, we're going to die fairly soon, the world will go on without us, and there will continue to be corruption in high places and politicians who lie and launder money. There will also continue to be plenty of good people, wonderful people, doing very neat things, and life will go on. Young people will fall in love, and poets will dream glorious dreams.

The only reason I talk about stuff that interests me here is this: I enjoy expressing my thoughts. It gives me something to do. So do the rest of you, and THAT is why you post here on a daily basis if you do.

It is inevitable that we will disagree about numerous things and never resolve those disagreements. That's life.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 01:14 PM

*choking while suppressing giggles* (at Ebbie's demand for more aluminum AND 'spaw's wonderful business venture.)

You realize ALL this is because "satellites are hacked"

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 01:06 PM

Spaw can you make you fonts more consistant ... you go from very large, to large, then to small and then backup to large and very large. I have to take my glasses off tho read the large, then put them back on to read the small and then I have to ......

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 12:33 PM

HOLY SHIT!!!! ANOTHER GAWDAMN CONSPIRACY!!!!!

SOMEONE IS HACKING MY WEBSITE!!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 12:30 PM

Spaw, your link " www.yuradumfuck.com" doesn't seem to work for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 12:24 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 02:10 AM

This is one time, Little Hawk, that you really, truly need to say that this is somethng you THINK. To say: "It is illegal drug money that secretly finances the USA to the tune of many billions of unaudited dollars every year, and it's channeled and controlled by the USA's secret service," is not only gullible and irresponsible and yes, blithering, but also not reasonable.

Just think- our troubles are over! Instead of worrying about the debt that we're accumulating for our children's children, all we need to do is sell more drugs.

Pass the alumin(i)um, folks. If we're to get past this, we're going to need lots more.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 01:14 AM

Hey, man, you don't have to agree with me to keep me happy... ;-)

We all have our opinions, and we all base them on whatever we've come across that we found reasonably convincing.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 01:10 AM

Ye blithering Gods!!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 06 - 12:22 AM

Not in politics there isn't, art.

It is illegal drug money that secretly finances the USA to the tune of many billions of unaudited dollars every year, and it's channeled and controlled by the USA's secret service, the CIA. The sources of most of the drugs are places in the Third World where the USA has fought or proxied dirty wars...and won them...in Central America and Afghanistan, for example.

And no, I'm not Guest, I just happen to agree with him on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 10:23 PM

"Shot by a Bush family friend" is rather a long way from shot by the crazy brother (who had previously stalked Jimmy Carter) of an otherwise unremarkable man who had planned to have a business dinner with the VP's son the next day; both lived in Denver and both were in the oil business. Believe it or not, there really is such a thing as a coincidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 09:27 PM

Prison inmates do telemarketing work, among other things. You probably talk to a couple per week. And UNICOR makes a lot more than desks. UNICOR is the American equivalent of Communist China's infamous sweatshops. Last look, the avg "wage" for American prisoners was 23-24 cents per hour, BEFORE overhead is deducted. And if your office assistant put a bullet in you and then told you he's taking over, artbrooks, how much would you protest? The Bush/CIA machine has been running the Executive Branch since the day Reagan was shot by a Bush family friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 09:16 PM

(1) Involuntary servitude is not the same as slavery. Most prison inmates work, either in jobs that reduce prison overhead (ie, doing the laundry) or producing something of intrinsic value outside the prison system. (2) UNICOR sells some material, including cheap desks, to the US government, among other buyers. Government buyers are generally required to buy from the low bidder, which UNICOR usually isn't. (3) Reagan made a full recovery within 2 months of being shot. G.H.W. Bush was not in charge except for the few days that RR was in surgery and post-op recovery.

Do you really not know this stuff? Do you really believe that it is all a vast conspiracy? Is there a propeller on your aluminum beanie?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 06 - 08:26 PM

If any of your Christmas crap has a label with UNICOR on it, the item was made by U.S. prison slave labor:

"...The 13th Amendment reads as follows: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted shall exist within the United States." That means that if you've been convicted of a crime, you are legally allowed to be a slave....

Products bought by the U.S government are bought from UNICOR, which is the trade name for Federal Prisons Industries. Yes, prisoners even build desks for members of Congress. UNICOR proudly displays on its web site that it is "where the government shops first."

http://www.geocities.com/youth4sa/prisonlabor.html

And as far as Reagan being president for two terms, that's not what happened. Not technically. He was shot two months into his first term, and George H. W. Bush began assuming power:

"Bush is functioning much like a co-president. George is involved in all the national security stuff because of his special background as CIA director." -- White House press secretary James Brady, March 1981

http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/HinckleyAndBush.htm

Reagan was incredibly popular and Bush couldn't beat him out of the nomination, but Reagan had to accept Bush as V.P. (forced on him by George Schultz, David Rockefeller and the other power brokers who really run America). Then the Bush cabal attempted to kill Reagan but didn't succeed. Reagan got the message though, and he began radically changing his conservative policies. So, Bush took over the White House after the shooting of Reagan, ran it under Reagan for 8 years, then served a 4-year term as president himself.

And a Bush acquaintance was used in the Reagan assassination attempt:

"Neil Bush, son of the then vice president of the United States, was scheduled to have dinner on March 31, 1981, with Scott Hinckley, brother of John Hinckley, the day after a bullet came within an inch of making Neil Bush's father the new president of the United States. Even though John Chancellor had let slip out this most remarkable assassination coincidence shortly after John Hinckley tried to kill President Reagan, it was censored by NBC News and the other organs of the national news media during the subsequent 10 years. And even in the several months of extensive coverage of Neil Bush's part in the massive savings and loan fraud, no mention was made of his role in the continuing coverup of the most significant story in the 1980s."

http://www.new-enlightenment.com/reagan_assassination.htm

By the way, John Hinckley's father (John Hinckley, Sr.), was involved with World Vision, a CIA front group and brainwashing organization. They trained assassins. There's lots of information on this organization on the internet.

So, Bush Sr. feels cheated out of the presidency and tries to claim it through assassination, but he fails. But Reagan gets the message and lets Bush have his head. Reagan really DIDN'T know about Iran-Contra. Bush ran that whole thing. Bush focused on drugs (the "democracy in Central America" thing was just a cover to set up the smooth flow of cocaine into the U.S.), and now we have that whole Iran-Contra group back in power. Bush Sr. pardoned all of them of their crimes before he left the presidency, then Bush Jr. brought them back into government. Just one of them, John Negroponte, is responsible for the death squads that killed upwards of 500,000 in Central America. He's now head of the CIA. His primary job is to keep the drug pipeline open. This is all "Modern American History 101." Basic stuff. Gangsters have seized the U.S. and are turning it into a giant prison for their personal profit.

Do you folks really not know this stuff?

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Peace
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 06:55 PM

I expect that housing inmates costs the same there as in Canada--roughly. If so, at $50,000/year, and that doesn't take into account court costs, prisoners are taking about 73 billion dollars a year to keep behing bars. That is lots of money, at least where I come from.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Peace
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 06:07 PM

USA's prison population a record, but growth slowing

By Richard Willing, USA TODAY

The population of the nation's state and federal prisons rose to a record 1.47 million last year, the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics reported Sunday.

from
here.

About 100,000 of the inmates are female.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 05:35 PM

and you live where? I drive by many of these institutions, and I don't see those things.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 04:43 PM

What a perfect description for public schools in American cities.

CONCENTRATION CAMPS!!!

Drive by one of these fine educational institutions and you will see - "Jeans and t-shirts have been replaced with uniforms; children are required to wear uniforms as soon as they can fit into them — and everyone (including teachers and secretaries and cafeteria aids) must wear name tags - meals (free) are slopped down twice a day (don't ask, they won't tell) - the restroom's stinch will make you retch and vomit your way to the 10 foot high fences and yeah the backsides have barbed wire.

Badges, we don't need no stinkin badges to know a concentration camp from roadside rest area.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 03:30 PM

If that is what he meant, LH, that is really sloppy writing. Reagan is never mentioned again and yet we know that he was the principal in the Iran Contra affair.

Guest is a smear master.

Mind you, I'm not a Reagan or Bush apologist- would never vote for either but it's just too damn easy to sling stuff and in the process making yourself one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 03:12 PM

He probably means that Bush took over while Reagan was convalescing. In any case, I believe he is right on the mark with the rest of it. However, it's not something any of us can do a danged thing about, that's for sure.

My way of dealing with narcotics is simple. I don't take them.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 01:59 PM

"Reagan was shot 2 months later and Bush took over the White House"

If you are an American, Guest, you should know your history better than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: number 6
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 01:52 PM

Good post Barry. It says it all.

No conspiracy theory here ... just the injustice of greed and power.

Well ... I'm off for now. Shuttin down for Christmas. Just a plain simple family gathering. No snow, but who gives a hot tomale.

Merry Xmas

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 01:37 PM

"Castillo quickly discovered that the Contra pilots were, indeed, smuggling narcotics back into the United States - using the same pilots, planes and hangers that the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Council, under the direction of Lt. Col. Oliver North, used to maintain their covert supply operation to the Contras...."

http://www.powderburns.org/

The webpage of Cele Castillo, from Texas. DEA (Drug Enforcement Agent) for years, lots of credentials. He says pretty much what I outlined above. Also, he talks about the Clinton's involvement with the Bushes through the CIA drug drop point at Mena, Arkansas. Lots of people have been murdered to coverup the Mena stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 01:31 PM

Privatization. This thread turned into a discussion of that, then when it infringed on peoples' comfort zones it became a discussion of "conspirary theories."

Short history of modern-day prisons in the U.S.: Prescott Bush (GW's grandaddy) backed the Nazis. They lost the war in Europe and their loot was transferred to S. America. The Bushes set up shop in west Texas to launder Nazi loot through the oil industry. Along the way they (Bushes) became a major player in the South American drug trade. Then George H.W. got elected V.P., Reagan was shot 2 months later and Bush took over the White House. We had Iran-Contra, with Ollie North and Negroponte and others establishing the cocaine industry in the U.S., while George H.W. took down rogue dealers like Manuel Noriega (we invaded Panama, remember? No reason was ever given). George H.W. pardoned all his criminal conspirators, and now they're back in power (instead of in prison where they belong). And Bush Jr. invaded Afghanistan, where the Taliban had completely stopped opium production, and now it's at 110% over previous top levels. So, the Bushes pump the drugs into the U.S. and then invest the profit into prison industries like Wackenhut and Corrections Corporation of America (companies that build prisons to house drug criminals). That's the basis of the U.S. prison industry now...private businesses housing people convicted of using drugs shipped in by the CIA. Read what the black residents of south Los Angeles have to say about it. They say the Cryps and Bloods are creations of the CIA...they SEE the CIA dropping gang members on street corners to sell drugs. The 'turf wars' of the gangs are just like the Democrat/Republican shell game...you control both sides and threaten to put the other side in charge if your side doesn't play ball. The illicit drug industry has now been stabalized in the U.S., Wackenhut and other corporations are looking at increased income since the federal and state governments have begun linking drug use to terrorism, and someday you're going to have a good 20-cent an hour job in what they'll probably start referring to as "Security Centers" on the news. "A minor disagreement at the Levenworth 'Security Center' today resulted in 'managers' having to 'fire' several 'employees'. Pardon me, that's 'fire on' several employees."

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Concentration camps in U.S. don't exist?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 01:23 PM

Just because jobs are outsourced & places of work are privatized does not mean that they're making a profit. It could be that the owners (local, state & federal governments in the case of prisons-in the US) are just paying more for something they no longer feel or want to do. Therefore it could be costing the tax payer a lot more money but who cares. It then becomes profitable to those that do want to run the prisons for the possible profits that can be made. So does liability fall on the heads of the private companies running the prisons or upon the penal system responsible which should be overseeing them in the first place? Kind of like Abu Giraud & Guantanamo. Who's minding the store?

As to the overcrowding & the high numbers of inmates, for one the desire to rehabilitate is missing & there's always been a great push to punish & remove the potential undesirables from the general population. The rate of repeat offenders is very high who really cares? Of those convicted of drug related crimes, very few get any drug treatment. If one is convicted of a drug crime they usually can find some sort of treatment but unless it's a drug conviction the rest are out of luck, like the person who gets convicted of stealing, even if it's to support their habit. It cost money to educate & rehabilate & that's not an option our prison system cares about, it doesn't care if we can get the convict to become a contributing member of society after release, they are set up to fail upon release. How hard & how cheap would it be to teach a trade or a skill? So in the end we house more criminals & in the long run it costs far more. The prison system in the US, IMHO, has long been a holding camp for minority & poor peoples cheap labor, an avenue for oppressment, a threat to be held over the heads of the unfortunate as a way to 'tow the line'. The southern system was up until recently (the 60's) a continuation of the older plantation & slave systems & extremely profitable for the whole of the south eastern part of this nations economy.
The set up starts with an arrest, there's the beginning of the process that separates the rich, the well educated, the well connected & the powerful. One gets a high priced lawyer, bail, gets to grease the ways & rub elbows with those that have an influence upon their future & they get to toss around their money, spread their wealth, influence, power & good will & then make attractable bargains. The other gets a public defender that will toss them to the wolves while they sit unable to do anything on their own & on their own behalf & will settle for the worst just to receive what they already know will be the best they can expect from a system that's stacked against them, they have nothing to barter or bargain with & for. Just look at the deals lately that have been pasted on to corporate robber barons. They're getting pretty good deals for committing such high crimes against so many people. Where if you or I were convicted of something far less we'd be doing far more time for our lesser offence. The military deals the same justice. A few years for murder in another land & only the lowly get brought to trial & fed to the dogs while those that would give an order are not even spoken with.

And it doesn't stop there. Why does a poor or minority suspected criminal get such disrespect & ill treatment when a corporate raider like Ken Lay gets better. I would prefer to see Ken Lay dragged out of his high rise office, cuffed & shackled, publicly ridiculed without a chance of bond or bail (didn't he have more money & means to be considered a flight risk than most), have his assets frozen & told that he can be represented by a public defender. See what then happens to those folks when they equal treatment.   

I have nothing to say about concentration camps, though I'm surprised that the government didn't repeat the tragic mistakes that the showed towards Japanese during WWII. Opps, they weren't that far off with there treatment towards Moslems, Arabs & other mid easterners after 9/11.

Barry