BS: B'hoy pronunciation

Subject: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 06:01 AM

Reading around the New York of the 1840s I came across references to 'phonetic rendering' of 'boy' as 'b'hoy'. Maybe it's phonetic, but I can't quite see how it would be pronounced. Buhoy? Poy? Voy?

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 06:29 AM

As far as I know, it sounds like Buoy, ie the floating object for securing boats.

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 06:38 AM

I think they are trying to suggest a sound between B and V made by not quite closing the lips, so the plosive effect becomes slightly aspirated.

I remember the little daughter of an Asian neighbour giggling at my attemps to pronounce 'dhania'.

Now, what about the Liverpool 'wack'?

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 06:54 AM

Paul Burke seems to be making sense. Like a very luvvie actor of the old school saying"dear boy": there should definitely be a considerable aspiration after the b sound. An allied effect is the split in England between those who say disturb with a distinct b, and those who who say disturve quite clearly. And some say an intermediate form which is hard to classify.

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 07:49 AM

whack needs the sides of the mouth to expand as the wh is pronounced and the ck is short as the mouth resumes normality.

Now, how to pronounce "owr" as in the Black Country "owr kid"? Well ignoring the Brummie upstart derivatives that bear no emotional connection with "owr die-alect" it is nearer to "Ah" and "a when verbalised, than "our" as in hour, but if yoh doh spake it rarght they doh understand yoh.

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 09:37 AM

In the pronunciation of 'buoy', though, Americans seem to say 'boo-ey', while it's identical to the pronunciation of 'boy' in British English.

I wonder if there's any recording of - presumably Irish- - Americans saying a sentence including the word in the early days of recording.

Isn't there some football team that's known as the Bhoys too? Wonder how *that's* pronounced.

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: MartinRyan
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 11:21 AM

Tht team is, of course, (Glasgow) Celtic - but we won't start arguing about the pronunciation of that, will we - unless we're from Cavan or thereabouts!

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 09 Jan 07 - 08:00 PM

I think the team is pronounced with a grain of salt, unlike all other Keltoi...!

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:36 AM

I distinctly remember my Grandmother, from Donegal, pronouncing the word "festival" as "festibal". And in some Glaswegian pronunciations (without any connection the football team), the phrase "he's just a wee boy", for instance, would come out as something like, "he's jist a wee boa-iy" (with the "boa" part not as long as in the Constrictor variety, and the "iy" just a brief, swiftly cut-off, terminal inflexion). I wonder if that's the kind of phoneme which the early C19th phonetic rendering was attempting?

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 04:02 PM

The spelling was intended as a derisive approximation of the Irish-American pronounciation of the term "Bowery Boys"-- which was used by non-Irish-Americans in that clever, broad sort of way that we have of denoting the unassimilated--"Hey Goobah! No tickee no shirtee! My name is Yon Yonsen, I come from Visconsin! Chizbugah, Chizbugah! Vahs you dere, Sharlie?"

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 04:04 PM

Sorry, that should be "Goomba"--

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: GUEST,Hoosier
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 12:20 PM

Hey, Molly-ar;
Wha' yo doin' dah?
Settin' in de cordnah,
Smokin' yo' see-gah!

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: Schantieman
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 02:48 PM

I've lived in and around Liverpool for 22 years and never once heard anyone say 'wack' meaning ''mate', 'Oi you' or something similar.

Mind you, it *does* annoy me when I'm addressed by a teenaged shop assistant as 'mate'!

harrumph.


Steve

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Jan 07 - 04:11 PM

It's a respect issue, yeh?

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 07:02 AM

Ther be a call-centrist lady on Barclays Premier Bank wot pronounces "phone" ta rhyme wit "down". Oi fink she's posh, mebbees.
Or daft.

Subject: RE: BS: B'hoy pronunciation
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 07:18 AM

Nah, she's a Brummie.