BS: Getting out of teaching

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Wormwort
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 07:45 PM

WYSIWYG - they got into admin because they could not...[be]....a teacher-

Precisely my master's point. The original thread-starter has all the necessary qualifications. Read little heathen, then think.

May I suggest to Dannel - if she still feels the calling:
Department of Defense Schools for Dependent Children
(at least they have military discipline backing your command)

Teacher for Performing Children
www.studioteachers.com

Tune In, Turn On, And Join The Peace Crop
www.peacecorps.gov

Seriously,
Discipline With Dignity (Your tool-box for teaching lacks this essential)
www.disciplineassociates.com

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bernard
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 02:47 PM

It sounds as if you've passed the point of no return. Been there myself.

When I tell people I used to be a teacher, those (like trucker Big Phil above) who are 'outsiders' (no insult intended) always ask why. Teachers (and ex-teachers) just nod knowingly.

The worst part of teaching is having everyone else knowing your job better than you do...

:o/

The big problem with leaving teaching is that you are good at a lot of things, but have no 'track record' to use as a CV.

I got out 25 years ago, and am now an audio engineer/IT consultant. Even so, I still feel strange on a Sunday night because I think I should be doing some planning for the coming week...

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 02:11 PM

Going Admin is not the answer.

All the admins I ever worked with, both personally and in workshops I led that basically were about changing their school systems-- turned out they got into admin because they could not fulfill their original vision for change while a classroom teacher-- and found that in admin, it was even LESS likely. The school sytem (metasystem, not any individual district) is designed for only the slowest, safest change processes to survive.

PMs welcome.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,well wisher
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 01:18 PM

Teaching and it's associated admin. is very demanding. If you feel that you're "going under" seek help from your employer, they have an obligation to help you. Inform your union, they have an obligation to help you. Once you've been down these roads, decide what is best for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Desperate Dan
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 12:43 PM

Big Phil: "Stay where you are, its a hard world out here." Whaaaattt? You mean I have it easy teaching? My reply would take so long, the long hours, the lack ... oh, why bother. If the fact that I started this thread doesn't convince you, plus the replies from others, nothing I say here will. Thanks all others for your responses - I am thinking them over.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: mg
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:56 PM

What I would do/have done is work for the schools as a part-time classified employee. Benefits are excellent at half time in state of Washington. Then once you have put in 4 hours as a playground supervisor or whatever, go on to your more creative self-employed endeavor and hopefully earn some good money. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Phil
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 10:35 PM

Stay where you are, its a hard world out here.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: moongoddess
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 10:09 PM

I am a retired mathematics teacher who taught for 33 years. My last few years were horrible because there was no discipline anymore in the schools. The administrators were afraid of being sued, so the kids and parents basically did what they wanted. I finally found a reply that worked with some overly litigious parents. "I'll have my lawyer call your lawyer".
    I never stopped loving the process of watching a child's face light up when he/she finally "got it". But now, they don't have to "get it" they just have to have experienced it. Jeez.
    After I retired, I went to work for the US Fish and Wildlife Service as an Educational Consultant. This turned out to be my dream job. I got to write lessons and then teach these lessons to students who visited the wildlife refuges. You might want to look into this as a way of still getting satisfaction from being an educator. What I loved about my new job was that I could go to the bathroom whenever I needed to and I didn't have to wolf down lunch in 18 minutes while on the phone with a parent.
    Also, charter schools might be a way to go. I am intrigued by the suggestion to start a home school program. That is going to be my next project. You don't live in RI, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:32 PM

I'm not so sure administration can make a big difference. They take their orders from the school board (trustees), the superentindent, the parents, the ministry, the Province or State, and the Union. You may be getting deeper into the bureacratic nightmare.

I now look public schools as a big, monolithic, institution that eats creativity and spits out mediocraty.

I used to be a true believer when it came to public education as the best way of providing equal access to opportunity for citizens. I now understand why independent schools, home schooling and distant education are becoming so popular. Its too bad but the public education system has been underfunded and neglected for so long that it is dying a slow death. Unfortunately, teachers get all the blame.

I hope you will find a teaching position elsewhere as it is a shame to waste your education and skills. Sad to say, its always the best teachers, those that care about and advocate for their students, that are burning out.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Screwtape
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:53 PM

The previous poster had it correct. You should go into administration where you can make a real difference in how things are run.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:29 PM

I have just received my state certifcation to teach! Before I graduated, every single student majoring in education (at any level) had to attend several professional seminars. One seminar was about resumes and such by the Career Office at the local university. Before the woman left, she said, "You know, you may get out in the field and find that you hate it. It wasn't what you bargained for and you want out. If you ever get to that point, come see me." Apparently she had started out as a teacher and found it to be less than what she had hoped. She showed us at least 15 different volumes of books containing information about what other things you can do with your teaching degree besides teaching.
   
I'd suggest contacting the nearest university career center, preferably one with a teaching program, and see what kind of information they can provide you with.

It's always sad to see a teacher (at least the ones who care) go but you have a point and so does Dianavan. There is SO much more to it and most people have no idea.

I wish you success in whatever you find.

LQF

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Desperate Dan
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 01:59 PM

Thanks for all responses so far. My understanding is that adult education is in a mess. Working there would mean a huge pay cut and a short term contract only.

Dianavan: "Trouble is, nowadays, there are so many rules that have to be followed that there is absolutely no room for creativity." Yes, I used to be an energetic, creative teacher. Now I am a ground-down cog in a machine.

jonm: "get yourself promoted into a position where you can influence some of the decisions which get imposed, feel you're making a positive change for your fellow teachers, do some moving and shaking." I have made several moves that I thought would help me do that. Seems the grinding education machine is much bigger than I thought. If only there was such a thing as a position of power in education! All the decisions are made by people who haven't seen the inside of a classroom for years and followed by careerists for whom actual education is the last thing they think of when considering 'educational practice'.

I am willing to take a pay cut, but I could not take a huge one, as I have a mortgage to pay. I am scanning the jobs pages, but all jobs for people of my age seem to require experiences I do not have, as I have been doing my utmost in teaching.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:39 AM

Get real....just who do you think the law is there for the benefit of?

When you're a teacher the first lesson the old sweats tell you that first day in the staffroom is - it is now up to you to sort out your own salvation on the floor of the classroom.

You know what they in the The Alien, in space no one can hear you scream.......well the education system is a bit like that. If you ain't cutting it - really that's all to the good of the next classroom down the corridor - cos it makes that teacher look better than you.

As for anybody providing you with documentary proof. If someone offered that, it would be a sure sign they were looking to get rid of you. Tip you the black spot!

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: jonm
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM

So here you are, once a proud independent innovator and motivator, keeper of your own plans, resources and records, reduced to compiling statistics and following seemingly ridiculous rules and proscriptions under the watchful eye of an increasing number of ignorant beancounters.

Teaching - who'd do it?

The options:

further ed college - more paperwork and bureaucracy, less money, some students better (the ones earning more than you), some loads worse than schools. Even more scrutiny from the beancounters.

private training company - even less money, probably piecework, no job security. You have to deliver whatever you are told to, whenever, so no flexibility.

training department of major firm - always the first to go when work takes a downturn. Most training managers are internally promoted, despite their total pack of an appropriate skill set, so the only jobs which go to outsiders are when the department needs rescuing after a major f-up.

I thought I'd found a fourth - get yourself promoted into a position where you can influence some of the decisions which get imposed, feel you're making a positive change for your fellow teachers, do some moving and shaking.

I'm now in an environment where the goalposts are continuously moving and I'm desperately trying to preserve as much stability as possible for my team. I cannot honestly say I've completed or achieved anything in the last three years, since the requirements have changed before anything ever reaches a conclusion. I'm kidding my guys I have a handle on strategy, when in reality it's all reaction to external drivers from a series of micromanaging Government Quangos.

It's all going to change soon. By 2016, at current age, recruitment and leaving levels, the available pool of school teachers will have halved. The Government will no doubt start off by foisting a load of unqualified "assistant teachers" on classes to keep costs down, but after the inevitable public backlash (at least we know have a Government where public opinion has some effect!) they will have to make teaching more attractive.

Regrettably, the private sector views ex-teachers poorly because of the perception of short days and long holidays (talk to some managers about how much time they can put into developing a one-hour presentation then tell them you do five a day five days a week!). That counts against you in the job market.

Give some thought to a sideways move - exam boards and awarding bodies are looking for people with front-line knowledge of students' abilities and assessment practices, perhaps one of the Govt. Quangos is recruiting.

Other than that, good luck and maybe meet you at interview some time soon.....

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:27 AM

I could write the book about this one. I won't bore you with my own experiences, but you really have to think this one out very carefully.

If you're not happy, teaching can be a quite ghastly job.

If you really must get out, you must take on board quite a lot.


Firstly , you have been used to working independently and using your intelligence. there ain't many jobs working for other people where this is valued. If you look around even doctors and lawyers are usually trotting out the company line, just like all those assholes you know who have their sights set on being a headmaster.

Conclusion: you will be better working for yourself.

If you work for yourself. It has pros, it has cons. You lose control of how much you work. Your clients decide that. If there aren't any clients, you work even harder til you have some.

the paycheques don't come with reassuring regularity. take out as many credit cards and open as many credit lines as you can, while you still have an income. With O% credit card deals they are MUCH cheaper than business loans. And as long as the econmony is in safe hands - youi'll be okay. If those crazy conservative bastards get it and take the unemployment queue up to 8 million again to give their pals tax breaks - as a newly self employed you will feel the cold. If you have a wife - get her to open credit lines as well. Use your nous, and you could get a loan up til May 2008 to set up your business, when the introductory offer is over, look for another one - the card companies expect this. Do it about two months before you need to, to avoid copping for one month where your income goes interest to these sharks.

Downsize, sell your big mortgaged house and buy something serviceable for cash. pay off all loans that you have - whatever it takes. If you have a carloan, end it. Get something serviceable from the auction. learn to minmise your outgoings whilst your making your first moves.

At some point you will need to expand yoiur business - the collateral in your house is probably the security that will make this possible.

If those moves don't sound right, just look for another teaching job. You may get lucky and find some place with nicer people.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Don LAst
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:07 AM

Even the most conscientious and even tempered teachers here are showing signs of extreme stress. They have to practice code red lock downs in case of attack and are reminded in print and on TV of the gun nut jobs that do shoot school people on a monthly basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Anne Lister
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:01 AM

Desperate Dan, you have my every sympathy. I've been getting out of teaching for the past fifteen years or so... and so far succeeded in that I'm now singing, writing, storytelling and running storytelling workshops. And supply teaching, to fill in the gaps. And office temp work, to fill in the long summer with nothing much else available. I'm awkward, though, because I don't want a full time alternative and mostly like this patchwork existence.

I'd say check out your local employment advice centre to see if they know of opportunities in your area to use your skills, or any retraining possibilities which may be appropriate. Be aware, though, that unless you're lucky or in London it's hard to find work at the same salary levels as teaching immediately on leaving the system - here in Wales I was told I would have to expect a drop of at least £10K!

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Greg B
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:31 AM

TRUBRIT --- no wonder your kid is 'difficult to deal with.'

You're sending him the message that every rule, every procedure
has to be to his liking in order for him to conform. Neither you
nor he are getting the idea that every institution, whether school,
work, or the local folk club, has a 'boss' and that person is
empowered to make decisions to which various other individuals
will be required to conform.

That's called 'life.' AKA 'the real world.'

People who insist upon having 'about ten meetings' to plead the
case of their little darling who wants to be the exception to the
(usually well-considered at the bottom of it) rules are in fact
one of the reasons that educators eventually become burned out
and take their considerable skills to some better-paying profession.
Indeed it's the fact that they even have to entertain 'about ten'
meetings that kills them. Decades ago, they would simply have said
'Mrs TRUBRIT, I've explained the rules to you, clearly and
unequivocally. Now I expect you to inform your son that he's to
take the bus. I have other matters to attend to, my decision is
final, and I won't be spending any further time on the matter.
Good day.'

You would do very well to tell the young lad to do as he's told,
remember that HE'S the student, not the boss yet, suck it up, get
his backside onto the bus to make the most of the free education
(and transportation) that 95% of the world would die for, and
prepare himself to be a productive member of society (at the
entry level). If, of course, he wishes to continue to have his
no-doubt voracious 18-year-old appetite sated on a regular
basis going forward.

Perhaps one day, when he is educated, his time will be 'too valuable'
to be spent with his buttocks on the seat of a school bus.

That day, I would venture, is at least several years in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Michael from Manitoba
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:26 PM

As someone who spent more than two decades as a classroom teacher before getting a university post in distance education, I sypathize with you, Desperate Dan. If I were starting over again I don't think I would opt for school teaching, no matter how much I like the actual teaching part. I taught in a variety of teaching situations, including fancy prep schools, small rural schools on the pairies, schools in the Canadian Arctic and big city high schools. I pretty much did my own thing, and always got shit from the administration, which I heartily despised. I often wanted to get out but since I started about the age you're thinking of quitting, I was reluctant to drop to the bottom of the ladder and start anew. One thing I have learnt is that schools come in all shapes and sizes. Often, the school from hell exists two blocks removed from a school with happy teachers and nice kids. So much depends on the staff. the administration and the parents. If you're judging all teaching based on one or two situations you've experienced, it might be worthwile to shop around. In Canada (that's the only jurisdiction I can speak about), many schools focus on special programs like French Immersion, the International Baccalaureate or Advanced Placement programs. These programs tend to attracted motivated students, enthusiastic parents, somewhat more enlightened administrators (no guarantee, though) and offer teachers a much nicer environment in which to work. There are other alternative educational jobs, as earlier posters have mentioned, but more often than not, the pay is poor (private, church schools), the working conditions precarious (adult education) or the benefits non-existent.
Business - the corporate kind - often isn't the answer, either (I've tried that, too). I've the impression, Dan, that you are the type of person who would do well in a self-employed situation. I would make a thorough assessment of your skills and experience, balance this with what you really want in life - is money vital or are you prepared to take less salary for more satisfaction? And try to find some area in which you can start a home-based business. Self-employment has its own downside, but I liken it to a manure heap: it's better to be on top shoveling the stuff on other's heads than at the bottom getting it dropped on your own.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,~00~
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:12 PM

Are you American? Your spelling seems to indicate you are. And is it the communist public school system you're talking about? If so, good for you. Shuck it. It exists only to make children ignorant.

Home schooling. Look into using your licensing to set up a tutorial homeschool system. LOTS of parents want their kids out of the dilantin/prozac-pushing govt brainwashing centers, and you may be able to set up a home schooling network in exchange for $$$.

Just a thought. If I were a teacher, I couldn't keep doing that to kids, and that's what I would look into.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: mack/misophist
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:08 PM

My brother in law was a teacher until the third time a student pulled a weapon on him. He lucked out because the school board asked him to accept early retirement rather than file a police report. And this was in middle school, 8th graders.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:00 PM

I come to this thread fresh from a meeting with my son's AVP -- my son is a difficult to deal with 18 year old - senior - ready (we hope and pray ) to graduate this year....

Problem - he goes to regular High School half the day and Technical High School (auto tech classes) half the day. His 'home' high school has a rule - thou shalt not drive to technical High school - thou shalt take the bus. I have had about ten meetings with the school on the subject -- his father and I are ok if he drives, if he wraps himself around a tree (which we hope won't happen) we will not hold the school responsible. Can he please drive his safe, insured, airbagged and seatbelted car to tech. high school? We finally were offered a compromise -- if we send a note - EVERY DAY excusing him from school to home then we can drive him to Tech High School. But I said, we are willing to arrange that he GET to Tech High School - ie, drive himself. No go -- we have to take him. But excuse me, I said, he is 18 -- do you get to impose your rules on him when he is released from school into our care. Well, yes we do, they said. And by the way, he had better not take any of his friends in his fcar with him as that will be HIS FAULT and result in more detentions.

Couldn't he be a part time student so these rules don't apply? Well, no because part time students are always in their fifth year of high school. Could we pretend he is a fifth year student -- well, heavens above--if we did they might all be asking for that privilege.

I looked the AP in the face and said are you SERIOUS - and he said, YES, we have rules to follow. How can any intelligent thinking person survive that environment?????

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:49 PM

I don't know how it is nowadays but I do know that when I attended Community College for a couple of years at least two of the instructors said they were much happier teaching in a CC (One was a former high school teacher, one formerly taught in college). They both said that the students in CC were motivated, tended to be older- and asked far more questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: dianavan
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:21 PM

Yes, it is very sad when you have teaching skills but spend most of your time with paperwork in the name of accountability. Especially sad when you enjoy the kids and take pride in their progress. Too much time is spent testing, recording, scoring, reporting and filing.

Trouble is, nowadays, there are so many rules that have to be followed that there is absolutely no room for creativity. Its pathetic how after a few years in the system, all teachers teach the same thing as the teacher next door. Some teachers teach the same thing year after year just to survive. If you dare to bring your own unique experiences into the classroom, the other teachers feel threatened. Its a bureaucratic nightmare.

Follow the rules (made by bureaucrats not educators) or get out before the system eats your soul.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 07:45 PM

Large corporations often have training departments in which a good organizer and teacher can make a difference. You also have the basic skill set, from your description, of a project manager. I'd start networking like mad in one of these areas, focusing on high technology firms with strong futures. If you're interested, you might enjoy becoming an expert on nano-technology principles and training in that -- it is a growth industry.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM

Try tutoring at a local college. You get motivated adult students, and almost no paperwork.

And which earth are you on?

Classes for adults mostly finished years ago. The students in FE colleges nowadays tend to be those who the schools want to get rid of!!

The money and conditions are worse than teaching. The paperwork is half as much again of that of a teacher - so many other agencies to satisfy.

People teaching well-motivated apprentices need specific craft skills, you cannot teach plumbing without being an expert plumber.

It's one of the basic problems, what plumber in his or her right mind would cut their salary in half to become a teacher?

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:38 PM

please...'guests'...IDENTIFY yourselves by some name, so we may differentiate between you and the originator of the thread. This is now required to avoid having messages deleted.

Just read the last two 'guest' posts to see how confusing it can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 06:07 PM

You know, what is really heartbreaking is it isn't the kids. It is the adults who are the problem. Educators and consultants, fair weather politicians, the parasitical testing industry, the unions--for far too many of those people are out to protect their turf at the expense of kids getting a good education.

And don't get me started on what control freaks teachers are. What is up with that, anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: skipy
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:58 PM

I was a "teacher" for 6 years, I was lucky, I taught aircraft engineering to Royal Air Force apprentices at RAF Halton at HNC.
I taught "lads" who wanted to learn & of course I had a discipline system behind me to ensure control. Happy Years, but I could not do what you have been trying to do. Move on, take your skills to a place where they will be valued.
Godd luck.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:54 PM

Yeah, I'm hanging on by a thread here, too. When kids ask questions like "why won't you let us read?" I know it's beyond all reason...

You might try K12 education publishers. Not that the publishing industry is doing much better than education. Between budget cuts and budget cuts, and testing for this and testing for that, I'd say the only safe industry in education these days is the testing industry.

And it is huge, if you have the stomach for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Cats
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:53 PM

When I'm not in the classroom teaching, I'm wearing a Union hat getting people out of teaching. Before you do anything rash make sure you contact your local union secretary and get some advice re pensions, ways of getting out etc. Depending on which union you are in I can get you a contact number if you pm me. If you really are a guest become a member then pm me. There are loads of us out here who can help you.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Bee
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:36 PM

Whatever it's called where you live: vocational college, community college, business college, technical college, where mostly young adults are learning specific trade or business skills would be a good place to start.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: MaineDog
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:56 PM

Try tutoring at a local college. You get motivated adult students, and almost no paperwork.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:51 PM

If you love teaching you could still teach but just not in schools. I left teaching in schools (you end up working most of the holidays anyway!)and am now working as a REOTAS tutor (but the future for us is uncertain). Whatever you do don't teach for the prison service - the pay is very poor.

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:50 PM

Consultation - there are lots of Consulting companies up and down the country and they consult on all and any subject. Your skills are all applicable there.

Maybe if you changed your target audience (over 18s maybe) you might find a few of your marbles.

Good luck.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: jeffp
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:47 PM

Perhaps corporate education? You could use your teaching skills for teaching software or business practices, etc. to workers.

Subject: BS: Getting out of teaching
From: GUEST,Desperate Dan
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 04:40 PM

I am a Mudcat member but am posting anonymously in case I am recognised! I am a teacher who has come to the conclusion I need to get out for my own sanity. The long hours, the huge workload and the mindless data-collectors we have turned into means it is not the job I love anymore. I love teaching. I don't love the conditions that go with it. (Anyone who wants to fall back on quips about short hours and long holidays, please leave this thread to those of us who have the reality in mind.)

I have skills in people management, budget management, project management, negotiation, organisation and planning, addressing small and large groups of people, selling ideas - all transferable skills. My question is: where might I take these skills? In what areas of the job market do you suggest I start looking elsewhere? It might help to know I am in my late 30s, so am no spring chicken.