BS: Bagels

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: GUEST,Lilyfestre
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:39 AM

I haven't ever had a bagel from NYC so I can't really compare! I love bagels though...toasted bagels! They are warm and chewy and nice to linger over on a slow morning. Bagel chips (gotten at the local bagel shop) are yummy to dunk in soup too! Hmmm...I'm getting hungry.......

LQF

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 08:07 AM

That's what I'm having for breakfast this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: JennyO
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:21 AM

bagel with lox - ooooh!

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 08:31 PM

Has anyone else noticed the similarity between this wrangle and the "What is folk" one?

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Lox
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:09 PM

pop

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: GUEST,EBarnacle
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 05:04 PM

Supermarket bagels are mass produced and, by the time you get them, are already past their prime.
They don't even cut the cream cheese.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Schantieman
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 10:37 AM

When I was a kid in NW London, my dad used to go out on a Sunday morning to the Jewish delicatessen in Edgware and come back with the day's supply. Heated briefly in a hot oven (I never managed to get them still hot from the cooking) they were delicious, especialy when spread with cream cheese and smoked salmon.

Today's supermarket "New York" bagels just don't cut the mustard.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 10:07 AM

I asked for Lox and Bagels in Jackson, Mississippi and they brought me two dogs, padlocked together.









ba-da-boom










Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: JennyO
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 08:33 AM

Nothing like a good bagel to make Lox pop up ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: fat B****rd
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:32 AM

Yo ! Loxman, I wondered how long it would be before you popped up again.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Lox
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:28 AM

O jenny ...

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:32 PM

Which translates that there is no disputing that Gus in the East.

Bagels are meant to be cooked throughout. They are supposed to be a dense, relatively unrisen dough.

They are not called donuts or crullers because they are a form of roll. If they were pastries, it would make sense for them to have a lighter or sweeter constitution.

They are an ethnic food and need conform to no other standard than their original definition.

Get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: clueless don
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:17 PM

Someone said "Most commercial bagels should just be called donuts." But the thing is, I like donuts!

I have a bagel for breakfast almost every weekday morning. I eat it dry, i.e. no butter, cream cheese, etc. And I love it!

Which bagels do I eat? Blueberry bagels from Dunkin' Donuts.

De gustibus non est disputandum!

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:15 PM

I'm not much of a sardine fan either.

A generous offer, but I don't think I will be able to make it to Canada this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:13 PM

Smoked sprat...kinda like a sardine but smaller.

P.S. Ron, are you going to take me up on my offer?

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:11 PM

Hey, don't forget to take a look at the great song thread that's been active recently - Bublitchki.
We were one of two Catholic families in a Jewish neighborhood in Detroit when I was little - we grew up teething on bagels, so eating a bagel always brings me comfort.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:03 PM

My condolences. I don't want to ask what a "sprat" is.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 04:02 PM

Had a Montreal bagel with cream cheese and smoked sprats for lunch today.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......tasty.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:15 AM

There is something about the idea of "freezing" and "thawing" the dough that goes against the spirit of good bagels. I would also question what goes into the mixes. My guess is that there must be some additives that help preserve the dough through this freezing process.

It ain't natural to freeze bagel dough!

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:14 AM

Ron: I know that you won't change your mind (it's like two people arguing about whose mom's apple pie is better) but allow me to direct you to this site for an unbiased opinion from a native New Yorker.

If you make it up to the Ormstown Festival this summer, I'll take you to Beauty's and treat you to a Beauty's special.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 11:04 AM

Those of you who are sensitive to heresy might want to quit reading at this point.

I like Einstein's!

I learned something about a year ago. As a court reporter, I took some depositions for a business lawsuit. What makes it relevant here is that the depositions were taken at the Einstein's bagel factory, in Avon, Indiana (near Indianapolis), where almost all of Einstein's bagels are made for all of the United States. The only area of the US that isn't supplied with Einstein's bagels from Avon, Indiana is California, (and maybe Oregon and Washington; not sure about them).

It seems that a number of years ago Einstein's was about to expand out of the East, and wanted to centralize the operation for standardization, quality control, and efficient distribution. They picked a small neighborhood bagel shop in Indianapolis, and made a proposition, for those people to be the (almost) nationwide supplier.

Einstein's designed and had the factory constructed, and rents the factory and all machinery to the Indiana operating corporation. Einstein's contracts with various suppliers to put together the mixes for bagels, for flavorings, (such as onions, cranberries, blueberries, etc.) to Einstein's specifications, which are shipped to Avon.   The factory machinery adds water, mixes and kneads and forms the dough in bagel shapes. Then conveyor belts convey the formed raw bagels through the hot water bath, and immediately into a special unit which almost instantly freezes the bagels. The frozen raw bagels are then packaged and palleted by machinery.

The pallets of (maybe thirty-pound, I forget) boxes containing frozen raw bagels are shipped to the individual stores, and kept in a freezer. Each day, the following day's intended usage is taken from the store's freezer and allowed to thaw. They are freshly baked in batches through the following day as needed to satisfy the trade.

Oh, how disappointed I was to learn that Izzie and Elmo (or whatever their names are) don't personally make my bagel with their own little hands!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: JennyO
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:14 AM

Ah Lox, there you are! Remember this? O

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:47 AM

The East London platzel is shaped just like the beigel and about the same size. I just to bring home half a dozen of each from Bernie's All-Night Beigel Bar in Brick Lane after leaving the session at around 1 in the morning. Almost everyone else in the shop at that time was a taxi driver!

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:06 AM

Kossar's plaetzel is a flattened, irregularly shaped, roll, about 12" in diameter, with poppy seeds. There may or may not be onion sprinkled on it, usually not. Conceptually, it is related to the bialy, as it has a very yeasty dough. The one problem is that it must be eaten fairly quickly or it will go stale. A bialy, possibly due to being a little thicker, will last a few hours longer than the plaetzel. Sometimes, I use it similarly to a pita bread, carefully slicing it down the center and loading it with fun ingredients before or after toasting.
Both seem to freeze and recover well.
A little olive oil and herbs before popping into the oven. Pure heaven! I am drooling right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Lox
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:06 AM

Eh what? what's all this then?

Harrumph!

You're bringing back memories of JennyO

O heartbreak!

Hiya Fat B*****d

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:56 AM

I've just been past there. I often get a salt beef beigel there. I say beigel (prounounced b-eye-gl) as that's the traditional East End spelling (although sometimes the second e was dropped). We also have platzels although I wouldn't have said they had anything to do with onions, more of a beigel with poppyseeds but less sweet?

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:11 AM

I remember! The bagel shop I'm thinking of is Kossoff's, 91 Middlesex Street - delicious bagels there.

[drool]

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: EBarnacle
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:04 PM

Charley, Jennifer has taken me to Mr. Bagel. Close but no cigar. They were initially hideous but improved significantly about 10 or 15 years ago when they brought in a bagel baker from NY. Maybe it's the water?

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 09:47 PM

You fail to give us a source for your findings. My guess that it appears in stories about Montreal.

Montreal bagels suck. Lets not mince words. They are pretenders to the throne. People in Montreal must be used to bad food if they think their bagels can compare to the real thing. Is it the cold weather that causes this problem?? I had them from the Farimont when I was in Montreal for the Folk Alliance a couple of years ago. They tasted like stale cake. Awful stuff.   A good bagel from a proper bagel shop in NYC beats them hands down. Even H&H, which has become more of chain store, still makes a decent bagel.

And don't get me started on that dogfood you call "smoked meat". It is a cross between deli and BBQ and tastes like... well, I won't use those words.

Other than that... I love Montreal.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:49 PM

A little vigorish never hurt anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:45 PM

Ah, yes, bagels mit schmeer. To die for--hopefully not.
Schmeer is also a Yiddish colloquialism for a tip or graft, as in, "I told you we'd get a better table if you schmeered the head waiter."

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:30 PM

"And Bill, you are being too rational on this topic,"

of course....my TASTE is to be rational! ;^)

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:27 PM

The Einstein chain does a decent bagel...except their bagel sandwich includes capers (yetch!) as well as lox and cream cheese (which they call a "schmeer"). Onion bagels, of course, lightly toasted, with some onion on top, eaten open-faced.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:54 PM

Bodad: I guess--from seeing yur first post--that Montreal bagels must be bad for the digestions and repeat on you---since you had that symptom there.

            Now for something truly bad---try Dunkin Donuts alleged bagels.   

          Myself--I find them harsh on the tummy---but given options I would take a Poppy Seed one so I can then test positive for narcotics. Actually, I do like the flavor. But, give me a good croissant anytime---hard to find a good one---just like a good bagel.

          As to tennis. What do you think they call a 6-0 score where I play--for the losers?   Perhaps it is universal---I know not.

          As to the holes. Dunkin donuts has figured out what to do with their donut holes. You have to admit that blob they call Munchkins was a great advertising ploy.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:43 PM

"How can you have a 'low-fat' fat?"

Cut it with water.

And Bill, you are being too rational on this topic, everyone knows that matters of taste are based on anything but reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:36 PM

"Flora is a low fat margarine."

How can you have a 'low-fat' fat?

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:33 PM

OK Ron theses are from unselected Google hits, you are in tough.

"I'm curious if the Montreal bagels are more like what the NY bagels used to be, and is now in contrast better because the NY bagels these days have evolved into tasteless fluffy doughy things?

Or are Montreal bagels different from even the good old fashion NY bagels?"

"Montreal bagels are a different creature altogether. First off, they are thinner, more bialy than bagel. Second, a Montreal bagel comes coated in sesames as a default. Plain is not the status quo, and if you want it naked you must specify. Also, they are chewier and sweeter, almost to the point where, if you bought one hot and fresh from, say, Fairmount Bagels (St. Urbain and Fairmount), it's almost dessert-like. Because of its more interesting texture (denser, twistier dough) and the ubiquitous sesame seed, a Montreal bagel is much better eaten plain than a New York bagel. If you ask me, and both can be loved for their unique virtues. I would choose Fairmount for enjoying au natural and H&H for slathering in shmear."

"Montreal bagels are worth defending though, as I do think they're better than anything I've had in NYC. They're pretty different though, which can make comparison tricky."

"It's all about the bagel spot on Fairmount, which oddly enough is called "Fairmount Bagels"...
I personally enjoy the bagels in both cities. They are completely different. In NY you got those massive, thick bagels with the whole brick of creme cheese in there, which is totally different than Montreal bagels. "


"new york style bagels? those poofy things? pffttt! what you want are montreal style bagels. they are the bomb!
• Posted by: heather on Sep 18, 2003, 1:52 PM "

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:22 PM

Methinks the 'right' bagel, like the 'right' hot dog, or Pizza, or sausage, is just a matter of what you tasted first or grew up with. ANYTHING can be improved on, and chewey or hard or flavored is just subjective.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:53 PM

Darned good bagels available in Seattle. It depends more on who made them and where you buy them than it does on the plot of land they come from (e.g. New York, Chicago, or Flathead Lake, Montana. . . .)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:53 PM

LTS - there's a good bagel shop in Middlesex St nearby. I forget the name for the moment. Maybe a Google would find it?

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:36 PM

I used to frequent the Brick Lane Market of a Sunday morning, in east London. We'd get off the tube at Whitechapel, walk down the road to Grodzinski's bakery and get bagels fresh out of the oven. The lady would slice them and slap in so much butter it was running down your arm before you got to the beginning of the market. I remember them as being soft and chewy, with a yeasty flavour that was only enhanced by the pound or so of melted butter. Two would last half the length of the market and discourage me from buying more tutt than strictly necessary. Taking money out of my purse would have meant putting the bagel down, something I was very loth to do!

Alas, Grodzinski's is no more and I've never had a bagel that good since.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:35 PM

Just to clarify - what EXACTLY has already been done - the showdown or the, um, reproductive act involving Montreal and its bagels?

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:27 PM

"Screw Montreal and their bagels!"

OK Ron, them's fighting words - this calls for a showdown - uh I think it's already been done, I'll look for the results and post them as soon as I find them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:15 PM

I like bacon bagels, but I'm never sure whether it's OK asking for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:06 PM

Screw Montreal and their bagels! Awful stuff. They do not compare to the great taste of New York bagels. The crap in Montreal is more cake-like. Honey-sweetened water? Give me a break!   That is not the way to make a bagel.

Salt helps strengthen the dough and bring out the flavor.

Montreal bagels are basically good for plugging up the holes in the pavement.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: frogprince
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:53 PM

"lightly toasted bagel with cream cheese, apply about an inch and a half of thinly sliced salmon, artfully apply a few sweet onion slices"

You mean there are other ways besides that to eat bagels? (said Dean, drooling): )

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 07:31 PM

"Most commercial bagels should just be called donuts."
True, TRue, TRUE!

Answer to "Who were the Bagel Boys in Tennis": Eddie Dibbs and Harold Solomon, a couple of Jewish players on the tour in the early/mid 1970s, often as a doubles team.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: bobad
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:45 PM

You NY bagel enthusiasts aren't listening to me, here's another opinion:

Montreal Vs. New York City I: The Bagel
"'Do you want a cinnamon-raisin bagel?' That's not a bagel, that's a doughnut made of bread!" - Lea DeLaria

New York is a great city. It has great theatre (translation: theater), great music, great food, and has at least 99% less French people than Montreal. New York City, however, knows bupkis about bagels.
New York is a great city. It has great theatre(translation: theater), great music, great food, and has at least 99% less French people than Montreal. New York City, however, knows bupkis about bagels. While New York bagels are basically circular bread, Montreal bagels are ethereal rounds of sweet and chewy dough. Montreal bagels contain no salt and are boiled, prior to baking, in honey-sweetened water. Most New York style bagels contain salt, are boiled in plain water, and some can't even claim that. If you've never had a Montreal style bagel, then you've never eaten a bagel. If you're dying to try a real Montreal bagel, then you really need to board a plane and get your butt to Montreal, since there is nothing that compares to getting them right as they come out of the oven, still so warm that they have to be put in paper bags, since plastic bags would melt. Remember to buy a few extra for the car ride home. If that really isn't an option, you can order them online from the best bagel place in all the land, St. Viateur.

http://www.tarflies.com/article.php?_f=detail&id=708&tarfly=64cbfd2d31ccb6ee5c5ff85f5555f6fc

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Bee
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:13 PM

For a brief and blissful interlude, there was a little cafe in Halifax which served very good bagels, and had hired a very good young lunch hour chef who had no idea how much smoked Nova Scotia salmon is worth. He would slather your lightly toasted bagel with cream cheese, apply about an inch and a half of thinly sliced salmon, artfully apply a few sweet onion slices and sell it for the same price as a tomato sandwich. I ate there about three times a week until the owner realised what was up with the popularity of that bit of bagelry.

Subject: RE: BS: Bagels
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 05:59 PM

It used to be that the only place worth getting bagels was in Brooklyn. There are now several good bagel bakeries in Maine now, my favorite being Mr. Bagel, and I have to admit to being partial to sesame or poppy bagels, with lox spread.

I get them split and toasted unless they are fresh out of the oven. At home I mist them with water, and set the oven for 350 and take them out when the oven cycles off.

Charley Noble, who likes a slight crust