BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:18 PM

Dickey - If you know alphabetical order, you can look up the word 'destroyed' in the dictionary.

Yes, I believe that the U.S. invasion has destroyed Iraq. It will take years to re-build and even then, national treasures will never be recovered.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Dickey
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 04:03 PM

Dianavan:

Again, you need to clarify your statement. Was it touched or 100% destroyed or what?

No it has not been untouched.
No I wouldn't want to live there.
I will not be a complete idiot.

How come it is so difficult for you to answer questions?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:49 AM

Dickey - You can't possibly be so stupid as to believe that Iraq has been untouched by the U.S. invasion. Why do you think people are leaving? Would you want to live there? Don't be such a complete idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Dickey
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 11:20 PM

Dianavan: You say in typical inconclusive open ended style "their homeland has been destroyed"

Does this mean all of it or part of it? If it is a partial destruction, which parts?

You brought up homeland destruction in this thread so tell us how much of it is destroyed and if it is not too much work, what parties are doing this?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 12:32 PM

"How is it in Northern Iraq where the Sunnis did not touch off sectarian violence?"

As you know, that is Kurdish territory. They really do not see the civil war in Iraq as their problem although they will do whatever it takes to keep the U.S. on their side. They have their own agenda.

Do your homework and answer your own question.

Better yet, start another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Dickey
Date: 07 Mar 07 - 11:33 AM

"their homeland has been destroyed"

How much of their homeland has been destroyed?

How is it in Northern Iraq where the Sunnis did not touch off sectarian violence?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Dickey
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:07 PM

"the U.S. is proposing sanctions against Iran" That was Carter.

Sanctions Against Iran Executive Order 12211.

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and statutes of the United States, including Section 203 of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1702), Section 301 of Title 3 of the United States Code, Sections 1732 and 2656 of Title 22 of the United States Code, and Section 301 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1631), in order to take steps additional to those set forth in Executive Order No. 12170 of November 14, 1979, and Executive Order No. 12205 of April 7, 1980, to deal with the threat to the national security, foreign policy and economy of the United States referred to in those Orders, and the added unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy and economy of the United States created by subsequent events in Iran and neighboring countries, including the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, with respect to which I hereby declare a national emergency, and to carry out the policy of the United States to deny the use of its resources to aid, encourage or give sanctuary to those persons involved in directing, supporting or participating in acts of international terrorism, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Make any payment, transfer of credit, or other transfer of funds or other property or interests therein, except for purposes of family remittances.

The following transactions are prohibited, notwithstanding any contracts entered into or licenses granted before the date of this Order:

Effective immediately, the direct or indirect import from Iran into the United States of Iranian goods or services, other than materials imported for news publication or news broadcast dissemination.

Effective immediately, any transactions with a foreign person or foreign entity by any citizen or permanent resident of the United States relating to that person's travel to Iran after the date of this Order."

---

Now The UN has sanctions against Iran.

What are these sanctions? Do any of them harm the Iranian people ot just their rogue nuclear program?

Resolution 1737 (December 23, 2006)
The Security Council unanimously imposed sanctions against Iran. The text, calling for steps required by the IAEA, bans trade with Iran of all items, materials, equipment, goods and technology which could contribute to Tehran's uranium enrichment program and contains a list of persons and entities, whose assets are subject to a freeze. It also established a new sanctions committee to monitor compliance of the resolution."


5+1 Group meets to discuss possible additional sanctions on Iran

"Representatives of the world's six major powers held a meeting here Tuesday morning to discuss a draft resolution imposing additional sanctions on Iran, with the media still speculating on what these sanctions would actually be.

Five permanent members of the UN Security Council -- China, Russia, Britain, France and the US -- plus Germany met in Britain's mission at the UN...
..Based on media speculation, the US and Britain are doing their utmost to pass a new draft resolution [at the UN] that would impose tougher sanctions on Iran than those imposed in UN Security Council Resolution 1737, passed in December.

These include a ban on the sale of nuclear and ballistic missile-related materials to Iran and a freeze on financial assets of Iranians involved in its nuclear programs as well as a ban on travel by these officials."

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 07:53 AM

Interesting - an estimated 4 million fled under Saddam and 3.8 million fled after the U.S. invasion.

I'd say Iraq definitely is experiencing a brain-drain (they are the only ones who can afford to get out) and the rest of us have a refugee crisis on our hands.

Seems to me that the U.S. should accept more Iraqi refugees. In fact, Britain, Australia and the U.S. should share the responsibility. If they can't accomodate them, they should at least help Syria and Iran with the financial responsibility. Instead the U.S. is proposing sanctions against Iran. It hardly seems fair.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Dickey
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 01:45 AM

"The flight of its best and brightest professionals is nothing new in Iraq. Under Saddam Hussein, an estimated 4 million people fled into exile. After the fall of the Hussein regime, many emigres returned in the hopes that Iraq would become a center of learning, scientific research, and art in the Arab world. However, instability and violence have forced many professionals to flee the country, despite the government raising their salaries in an effort to keep them from leaving."
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/11/d0c40243-4975-49f8-9fe4-536f108b95a9.html

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Dickey
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 04:19 PM

Now you have got me worried.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 03:15 AM

Interesting link. I actually think some of what Adel Darwish is saying has some truth to it.

I would like to know, however, where he got his facts and figures about those who fled Saddam. He may have drawn them out of the hat for all I know. I didn't notice any footnotes.

Although his wtitten English is quite good, he needs to improve his grammar. How old do you think he is? How old are you, Dickey?

I hope, Dickey, that you paid close attention to this:

Copyright © Adel Darwish & Mideast News 2003. All rights reserved. No part of this site may be reproduced or transmitted in any form by any means or used for any business purpose without the written consent of the publisher.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Dickey
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 02:21 AM

How many Iraqis were uprooted by Saddam? That's your point?


"Just look at Iraqi opposition in exile - drawn from among four millions fled Iraq since Saddam took power in 1979"

"http://www.mideastnews.com/iraq0703203.html

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 01:10 PM

Dickey -

First you say, "ask a perticular question."

Then you say, "Why is it my task to seek out information about a point you are trying to make?"

Telling me how many are returning to Iraq does not tell me how many were displaced by Saddam.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 09:52 AM

displaced families are returning

Brigadier Qasim Ata, an authorized Baghdad Operation spokesman, told al-Sabah that for the 3rd day in a row dozens of displaced families are returning to their homes. 35 families returned in Madain, 7 in hay al-I'ilam and small numbers of families in various districts of Baghdad.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 01:53 AM

Why is it my task to seek out information about a point you are trying to make?

Make your point yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 02:08 AM

Here's the question, Dickey, plain and simple just like the first post.

How many Iraqis were uprooted by Saddam?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:26 AM

If you want to make sense ask a perticular question besides what about XXX?

"Yes, Dickey, thats true if you were Shia but what about the Sunnis"

What does that mean?

First the Sunnis were in power and not being persecuted under Saddam so there was no reason to "flee".

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 04:15 PM

You are making no sense, Dickey, and you aren't even attempting to answer the question or use any logic.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 03:20 PM

What about the Sunnis? Maybe they shouldn't have blown up the Golden Mosque at Sammara.

These are refugees from Saddam's Iraq that you wondered about.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:39 PM

Yes, Dickey, thats true if you were Shia but what about the Sunnis?

And now that the Shias and Kurds have the power in Iraq, it is mostly Sunnis who are fleeing Iraq - 3.8 million of them.

btw - You still have not answered the question as to how many Iraqis were uprooted by Saddam.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:20 PM

Iraqi refugees hope for US strike

Iraqi exiles blame Saddam Hussein for most of their ills

The Central Cafe in downtown Amman is a typical Arab establishment where men meet to play backgammon, smoke a water pipe and talk politics. The difference is that the only topic of discussion here is Iraq.

Most of the customers at the cafe are Iraqi refugees, stuck in Amman, some already for years as they wait for an answer to their request for asylum from the UN's refugee body, the UNHCR.

If America helps us get rid of Saddam Hussein, then welcome and many thanks to America

Majed Abed Abbas

The plans for a US strike against Iraq may still be unclear and there have been warnings about the consequences such a strike would have for the stability of the region, but Iraqis at the Centraal are hoping it will happen... and soon. Majed Abed Abbas, a 35-year-old Iraqi Shia, fled his country two years ago. He said he was persecuted as a Shia by Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's Sunni regime.

He also got in trouble after helping his brother-in-law flee to Denmark. He blames all his misery on Saddam Hussein.

"We have to save the Iraqis, they are oppressed and they are hungry," he said.

Iraqi President Saddam Hussein
Iraqi refugees would like to see a change of regime

"Iraqis don't care any more who rules them as long as it's not Saddam Hussein.

"If America helps us get rid of Saddam Hussein, then welcome and many thanks to America."

This is an unusual statement in a region where the US is viewed with suspicion, sometimes called the Great Satan and always criticised for its pro-Israel stance.

"We need outside help to topple the regime," Mr Abbas said.

"The Iraqi people are weakened, they are too worried about surviving and putting food on the table, they don't have the strength to rebel against this regime."

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 02:17 PM

"Rafha refugees are among 400,000 officially recognized Iraqi refugees across Arab world and in Europe and United States; hundreds of thousands more are living in exile;"

Are you trying to compare this to 3.8 million who have been uprooted by the U.S. invasion.

Even if you add 1.5 million Kurdish refugees to the 400,000 your point is lost. What are you trying to say?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 01:43 PM

A child born in the US is automatically a citizen and can't be deported.

How is it in the self righteous Canada?

How come Canada outsources it's torture? The family and the child were sent to Iran where they were tortured.

None of this is on your topic but you asked.

Your mean spirited opening post points the finger at the US.

You answered your own question, how many refugees were created when Saddam was in power? 1.5 million.

The following is on topic about refugees:

"First convoy of Iraqi refugees returns home from Ashrafi refugee camp in Iran; 69 Iraqis--third of them children--cross into Iraq and go to southern city of Basra; before fall of Saddam Hussein, there were 200,000 Iraqi refugees in Iran; most had fled after Shiite uprising in 1991; after Hussein was removed, American-led authorities delayed their official returns, concerned that flood of returning refugees could include people dedicated to fighting occupation forces; refugees' return is organized by office of United Nations high commissioner for refugees NYT

"More than 5,000 Iraqi refugees who have lived in refugee camp in Rafha, Saudi Arabia, for last 12 years yearn to return home; they are mostly Shiite Muslims who fled southern Iraq when Saddam Hussein crushed Shiite uprising after Persian Gulf war of 1991; hundreds of children under age of 13 have never seen country their parents call home; Rafha refugees are among 400,000 officially recognized Iraqi refugees across Arab world and in Europe and United States; hundreds of thousands more are living in exile; now many thousands are preparing to go home; their return has become focus of United Nations High Commission for Refugees and other international organizations; at Rafha, desire to leave runs almost as deep as fear of going home to houses and towns that were obliterated and to graveyards that hold their relatives; across camp, small spontaneous celebrations break out as Baghdad falls into American hands" NYT

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 11:28 PM

Don't play stupid, Dickey. 3.8 million Iraqis have been uprooted by the U.S. invasion and you compare it to one Canadian born child and one Iranian family.

Your argument lacks credibility.

btw - What are these laws that the self-righteous U.S. of A. have that allow the detention 170 children and their parents? What kind of country outsources torture and extraordinary rendition? Whats your excuse for Guantanamo? Stick to the topic and stop trying to find a lame excuse by pointing your finger at the other guy.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 10:13 PM

The title says refugees. And I ask again, what are the circumstances surrounding these 170 children?

Do you care about details and circumstances? I suppose that question is a red herring in your view.

Perhaps the US is following it's own immigration laws like Canada.

"this refugee crisis" Who characterized it as a crisis? Was there any crisis over the woman refugee and her son who fled from Iran.

If you as concerned as you claim to be about human rights and refugees, you should be complaining about Iran where women get raped in jail and they threaten to burn their children.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 07:55 PM

"Here's a good one for you to bitch about: No doubt you will ignore Canada's involvement and focus your mean spirited complaints on the US.

Canadian boy caught in Texas detention"

I read the link. Canada was following its own immigration laws. They could use some overhaul. However, not all the laws are mean-spirited as you tend to say so frequently. The following is from January, 1997 (close to the time Dickey points out:

"Johann Dueck, 76, a retired mechanic, is accused of taking part in the killing of Jews and other civilians as a member of the Selidovka district police in German-occupied Ukraine from 1941 to 1943.

Helmut Oberlander, 72, is accused of having been a member of a commando unit that massacred hundreds of thousands of Jews in Ukraine and Crimea after the German army's advance into the southern Soviet Union in the summer and fall of 1941.

Erichs Tobiass, 84, is accused of participating in the execution of civilians in Latvia from 1941 to 1943 as a member of the Latvian security police, an SS auxiliary unit responsible for the deaths of 30,000 Latvian Jews"

How this trash got INTO Canada in the first place really bothers me. And Canada has had a history of ignoring shit like this. That is changing. Fast enough? Not IMO. BUT, Canada's involvement? It obeyed its laws. WHF is the US doing with Guantanamo and the Hutto Detention Centre (which I posted info about to Mudcat about two or three months ago, and few people seemed overly concerned)? I guess they have them to hold all the bad folks Canada deports, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 07:44 PM

The last thing the US needs is 7,000 more people.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 02:04 PM

Dickey,

I have already said that I am concerned about the plight of Iranian women and I have already addressed your concerns about the child born in Canada.

Now its your turn to address the fact that the U.S. has 170 children and their parents in detention. Miss Toulee's sad story is a red herring designed to detract attention away from the actions of the U.S. and absolve them from any responsibility.

btw - Miss Toulee is Iranian and this thread is about Iraqi refugees.

Since you are so concerned, perhaps you should invite the poor Iraqis to move into your neighborhood or maybe you could sponsor a family to make their lives a little easier. Its the U.S., afterall, who has created this refugee crisis.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 11:41 AM

Oops that was me that did that last post not Dianavan. Sorry

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dianavan
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 10:58 AM

Your mean spirited about the 170 children in jail means what?

Why are they there? Who is responsible? What do the laws say about it?

Obviously you are not concerned about any details, whys or wherefores. You are only concerned with making mean spirited statements in an attempt to injure reputations.

Do you have any complaints about the plight of childern in Iran, the place where the boy was sent by the great humanitarian Canada:

Dissident tells of assaults and threats against children during 66 days in jail run by Iran's clerical regime

"A leading Iranian pro-democracy and women's activist, who was jailed on trumped-up charges last year, has revealed how the clerical regime cynically deploys systemic sexual violence against female dissidents in the name of Islam.

Roya Tolouee, 40, was beaten up by Iranian intelligence agents and subjected to a horrific sexual assault when she refused to sign forced confessions. It was only when they threatened to burn her two children to death in front of her that she agreed to put her name to the documents.
        
Perhaps just as shocking as the physical abuse were the chilling words of the man who led the attack. "When I asked how he could do this to me, he said that he believed in only two things - Islam and the rule of the clerics," Miss Tolouee told The Sunday Telegraph last week in an interview in Washington after she fled Iran.

But I know of no religious morality that can justify what they did to me, or other women. For these people, religion is only a tool for dictatorship and abuse. It is a regime of prejudice against women, against other regimes, against other ethnic groups, against anybody who thinks differently from them."

Miss Tolouee's account of her ordeal confirms recent reports from opposition groups that Iranian intelligence officials use sexual abuse against female prisoners as an interrogation technique and even rape young women before execution so that they cannot reach heaven as virgins.

Few women from the Islamic world are willing to discuss such matters, even with each other, but Miss Tolouee said that the regime routinely committed sexual attacks against female detainees.

"When I wouldn't do what they wanted, they slapped me. But after the sixth night, the routine changed. I was left alone in a small dark room with two men. One was the assistant prosecutor and called himself Amiri. The other had a filthy mouth and said terrible things. They started slapping me again. For the rest of the night they did to me what no woman should ever experience. Amiri said, 'I'm going to hang you, but before I hang you, I will make an example of you so that no woman will dare to open her mouth here again'." He then sexually assaulted her.

When she asked Amiri how he could act like that, he told her that only Islam and clerical rule were important to him. The attack left her badly bruised and bleeding internally, but she refused to sign the papers they put before her. To her assailants' fury, she demanded to see a lawyer and cited international treaties on human rights.

The following night they did not sexually molest her again as she was still bleeding - and hence "unclean". Instead, they told her that they would kill her children by setting them on fire before her eyes."

Howcome she and her son are not in a US prison? She did it right and was granted asylum:

"But she still feared for her children's lives and decided to flee. She made it first to neighbouring Turkey with Nima and then her daughter Shima, 14, was smuggled out to join them.

Fearful of the reach of regime agents, who have killed exiled dissidents, an opposition group called the Alliance of Iranian Women helped them to reach the United States last month.

Miss Tolouee has been granted political asylum and intends to maintain her campaign against Teheran. She still has relatives in Iran - she does not want to go into details for reasons of security - but says that they have given her their blessing to speak out, despite the possible consequences."

Maybe Dianavan should focus on Iran due to the horrible way women and children are treated there but it seems she defends the actions of Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 11:24 PM

I didn't catch the fact that the boy was born in Canada. Still, does that give the parents automatic rights? I'm sure there are ways to provide foster care for the boy if they want that.

Just the same, Dickey, I think that Canada should step in. Whether or not they do, is another matter. It depends on whether or not immigration believes their story.

170 children in detention by the U.S.? You are comparing this to the plight of 1 Canadian boy? Why? To ignore the plight of 170 children while pointing the finger at Canada is mean-spirited if you ask me.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:56 PM

National governments, Dickey, whether they be yours or mine, don't give a rat's ass about what happens to one poor family from Iran...unless it generates way too much bad pubicity in the media! Then they move fast to cover their asses and minimize the damage.

Governments care about the big stuff. The bottom line. Their balance of trade. Their currency reserves. Don't you know that?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:52 PM

In your usual mean spirited Modus Operandi you have ignored the fact that Canada deported this family with a Canadian born son to Iran.

As for these 170 Children in jail, are they there with their parents? Maybe they should be outside on their own. Isn't it the parent's responsibility that these kids are in prison.

Why does the US have to have an excuse to put someone in prison because they have fake papers? They have the obligation to detain people with fake papers or no papers.

Should the US deport them? If so where? They are citizens of Iran. Shouldn't they be sent there? Should the US grant them asylum when the great humanitarian Canada did not?

What excuse does Canada have? The kid is Canada's responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:33 PM

"Authorities at the Hutto detention centre have acknowledged holding 170 children there." Why blame Canada for this?

Canada did not grant them asylum the first time. They were trying to apply a second time but didn't reach Canada. If Canada intervenes, it will be on humanitarian grounds, not because they are in any way obligated.

What excuse does the U.S. have? They were detained and put in detention by the U.S., not Canada.

btw - I do care about the plight of Iranian women but the plight of this woman in one circumstance does not apply to most. Like I said, it makes a good movie.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:33 PM

I can see Dianavan is not concerned about the fate of women in Iran. She is too busy bashing the US and Jews to see anything else.

Here's a good one for you to bitch about: No doubt you will ignore Canada's involvement and focus your mean spirited complaints on the US.

Canadian boy caught in Texas detention

The family's complicated journey began after the couple fled Iran and arrived in Toronto in January 1995. They lived here for 10 years while seeking asylum, giving birth to a son. But on Dec. 6, 2005, with all legal avenues exhausted, the parents were deported back to Iran.

The boy's father claimed he had been originally persecuted in Iran after he was discovered with novelist Salman Rushdie's book. Once they were sent back there from Canada, they were detained and tortured for three months while the boy lived with relatives. Once released from custody, they again fled, reaching Turkey with the help of relatives. They bought fake passports and eventually travelled to Guyana, the parents said.

On Feb. 4 they boarded a direct flight from Guyana to Toronto aboard Zoom Airlines, planning to seek refuge again in Canada. The boy's father said the plane was diverted to Puerto Rico after a passenger suffered a mid-flight heart attack.

Once they disembarked, U.S. officials discovered the family was travelling with the fake Greek passports. They were detained for five days, then flown to the T. Don Hutto Family Detention Center in Taylor, Tex., the boy's father said.

Immigration rights groups have condemned the detention facility since it opened last May and last Saturday, officials opened its doors to the media to try to deflect some of the criticism. The New York Times reported that the American Civil Liberties Union is studying conditions there as it considers filing a lawsuit contending that the laws protecting detained juveniles are being violated.

On Tuesday, the boy's father phoned the University of Texas's immigration clinic and spoke with Matthew Pizzo, a student worker there. Pizzo then called the Canadian consulate in Dallas, where an unnamed employee told him the consular officials would investigate the detainment.

When he didn't receive a return call, Pizzo said he called back late Wednesday and left a message. There's been no further word from Canadian officials and consulate spokesperson Henry Wells could not be reached for comment yesterday.

"The interesting issue here is they weren't even trying to get into the U.S.," said Francis Valdez, a supervising attorney at the university's immigration clinic. "They were just trying to get back to Canada."

The parents said they hoped to reapply for asylum in Canada armed with evidence of what happened to them in Iran after they were deported.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:06 PM

Do you think that is the experience of every woman in Iran?

Thats a pretty broad generalization but it makes a good movie.

Since this is about Iraq and about Iraqi refugees in particular, how does this movie relate to the title of the thread?

Will you be welcoming the Iraqi refugees into your home? Will you help them adjust to the American way of life? Will you teach them to speak English?

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:21 PM

Has Dianavan seen this movie?

Not Without My Daughter (1991)

"In 1984, Betty Mahmoody's husband took his wife and daughter to meet his family in Iran. He swore they would be safe. They would be happy. They would be free to leave. It is the engaging true story of a woman who suffers abuse at the hands of her husband.
An American woman, trapped in Islamic Iran by her brutish husband, must find a way to escape with her daughter as well.
"Moody" is an Iranian doctor living in America with his American wife Betty and their child Mahtob. Wanting to see his homeland again, he convinces his wife to take a short holiday there with him and Mahtob. Betty is reluctant, as Iran is not a pleasant place, especially if you are American and female. Upon arrival in Iran, it appears that her worst fears are realized: Moody declares that they will be living there from now on. Betty is determined to escape from Iran, but taking her daughter with her presents a larger problem.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:14 PM

I don't trust Ahmadinejad or the Mullahs in Iran either, Dickey. Neither do I trust Mr Bush or the Israelis. Neither do I trust the Syrians nor the Saudis nor the Turks or anybody else around there. If I were leading a country...any country...I would never attack another country unless they attacked first (and I mean a full scale military attack...not the covert supporting of some paramilitary group somewhere...the USA also makes a habit of supporting paramilitary groups all over the place, after all, and always has done so).

I have no wish to live in Iran, because it's not my home and it's not my culture. If I was an Iranian, I might feel differently about that. Who knows? It would depend on many factors.

I don't doubt that Iran is assisting Hezbollah. I also don't doubt that the USA is assisting various paramilitary groups who kill people for them in many places around the word. I do not regard that as justification for launching a war on either the USA or Iran.

I'm looking at the situation even-handedly. I don't attack another country EVER unless that country has already attacked me...and I mean directly and without question attacked me with its own professional armed forces.

If all countries in the world were to abide by that one simple rule "I will not attack you first", we wouldn't have any more wars between nation-states. And if you think about it, Dickey, those are the normal rules of human conduct in any decent, law-abiding society, aren't they?

We need official statements by both Israel and all its Muslim enemies to that effect: "From this day forward we swear that we will not attack you first." It would be a reasonable start to building some kind of constructive dialogue.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:10 PM

Dianavan is mean spiritedly stirring the shit in the US and Canada and she knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 01:04 PM

The U.S. and Britain are stirring the shit in Iraq and Lebanon and you know it, Dickey.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 12:33 PM

LH:

If you saw someone beating up on an old lady would you intervene?

There is a tipping point when you decide one way or the other about who is friend or foe. Who can be trusted or not trusted. I suppose there is a middle ground where you think they can be ignored but not considered as a friend or trusted.

However the point at which you decide they are an enemy or you decide if they can be trusted is very distinct to me.

Based on his public statements, I don't trust Ahmadinejad and I think he is an enemy of the free world which we enjoy so much. I wish Iran could be part of the free world.

I know you hate these comparisons but wouldn't you hate to live in Iran? I think it is reasonable to determine the malevolence or benevolence of a leader by considering how it would be to live under his rule.

Iran is stirring the shit in Iraq and Lebanon and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 12:13 AM

George w. is just trying to push the value of labor lower.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:44 PM

I follow your reasoning on that, Dickey. You have probably described just how Ahmadinejad feels about the Israelis, and how they feel about him.

I see no harm staying alert, but I will not attack unless I am attacked first.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:34 PM

Yes I beleive administrations are wrong on something and right on others.

But I also believe there are people who should recieve no support at all, only opposition such as Amajama whatever, Chavez, Castro. To me they are enemys especially the ones that want you dead.

I suppose you would say Yeah, he wants me dead but there are other things I agree with him about so he is not all bad.

Like an old country guy I know once told me "When somebody says theys gonna kill ya, never take your eyes off him"

You have to decide who is friend and who is a foe. Who is a danger and who is not. Pretty basic rules of survival and the ones that don't follow them don't survive.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:14 PM

No thanks bobad. ;-) That would necessitate my believing in their Islamic revolution and its purposes, and I don't.

Yes, Dickey, I do believe the Holocaust happened. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Why is my disagreement with western interpretations of Ahmadinejad's speech being taken by you guys to mean that I agree with him about everything? I definitely do not.

Or must it be "all or nothing" for you when it comes to belief? For me, it is not all or nothing when it comes to politics and international situations...or indeed, most things. Every country, every administration is right about some things and wrong about others.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: bobad
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:30 PM

LH, if you are looking for a new carreer may I suggest that there could be an opportunity available to you as a spokesman for the Ahmadinejad government in Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:01 PM

I have an old fashioned tendancy to take things at face value. Somebody yelling he's lying always makes me suspicious of the yeller.

It they had any credibility they could state their case calmly and let people judge who is telling the truth.

Do you believe the holocaust never happened? That's what Ahmadinejad said.

You put your dick on the chopping block and trust him, not me.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:55 PM

PDQ make it bold like this <b>TEXT></b> or a different color like this <font color=blue>TEXT</font>

Or a different font like this <font face=arial>TEXT</font>

Or a different font like this <font size=+2>TEXT</font>

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:19 PM

LOL! Okay, I see... No problem.

Subject: RE: BS: 7000 refugees to arrive in the U.S.
From: pdq
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:00 PM

Little Hawk,

There is a small coterie of rude pedants who follow people around and declare "that's copy and paste!", as if that diminishes the content. I post some articles in italics which, to me at least, shows that the item has been copied, in order to avoid these people.