BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 May 08 - 09:21 PM

Springsteen is officially endorsing Obama. Does Pawlenty know? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 02 May 08 - 07:35 PM

Slime Time....

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 02 May 08 - 07:26 PM

And while factually accurate, the man is still an absolutely vile swine, only slightly less loathsome than Sen Norm Coleman.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 May 08 - 10:06 PM

Well, pdq, that' certainly refreshing.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: pdq
Date: 01 May 08 - 10:02 PM

MN governor Tim Pawlenty:

"His mother died of cancer when he was 16 and he was reared in a working-class neighborhood — later featured in a campaign commercial — by a Teamster father who brought up five kids on a milk truck driver's salary.

And even though he topped out on his high school's junior varsity squad, Pawlenty still laces up the skates and plays ice hockey with other over-the-hill ex-jocks.

Add in his fondness for fishing — after hockey, the state's other obsession — and 'TPaw', as the North Star State chattering class calls him, fits the mold of an average Minnesota guy.

That regular-guy, suburban persona is matched with retail political skills that have enabled him to twice win election in a left-leaning state with a long progressive tradition.

'He's a phenomenal talent,' says Lawrence Jacobs, a University of Minnesota political science professor. 'He's Clintonian in terms of being able to connect with an audience. It just drives Democrats crazy.'

One of those Democrats who battled Pawlenty when the governor served as state House Majority Leader was Roger Moe, the Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party stalwart who served as state Senate Majority Leader for over two decades.

'Politically, he's pretty skilled, no question about it,' says Moe, who lost in a three-way gubernatorial race to Pawlenty in 2002. 'He's a bright guy .'"


The man also plays Rock'n'Roll guitar and is a big fan of Springsteen.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 08 - 09:30 PM

Word on the street is that Hillary might be available....

McCain/Clinton '08...

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 08 - 08:13 PM

Perhaps, but I bet he can't match Condoleeza for sheer deadliness.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 01 May 08 - 08:12 PM

MN Governor Pawlenty's name is, according to local sources, on McCain's short list. Supposedly. He is an absolutely vile swine.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 08 - 08:06 PM

I would love to see Condi as VP... She may not be the smartest Sect, of State but when she puts on them high heel boots that come up to the knees....

....ouch!!! Them boots is in fir doin' some serious walkin'...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 08 - 07:54 PM

100!!!!!!

Oh, what a rush.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 May 08 - 07:25 PM

And here I was thinking Condoleeza Rice would be McCain's perfect choice for VP. Geez.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 May 08 - 07:21 PM

If you consult your crystall ball again, John F, I think you will clearly see, not Mike Huckabee but Mitt Romney. (That's OK, it's a natural mistake; both names begin with the same initial)

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 08 - 09:17 AM

Well, geeze, Weldon... No actaul date??? Just April??? That's not too helpfull, pal... If I just had a date I'd know whether or not to make my mortgagae payment on the 1st... I mean, if the world ain't gonna end to like the 10th then I wouldn't worry about gettin'
hit with a late fee...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: john f weldon
Date: 01 May 08 - 09:04 AM

Hey, I got my crystal ball workin':
Obama/Clinton battle causes mutual destruction.
Nov 2008... ...McCain/Huckabee win landslide.
Jan 2009... ...McCain's sudden demise called "Act of God" by Huckabee.
Feb 2009... ...Global Holy War announced by Huckabee.
March 2009... ...Huckabee vanishes; possible Rapture effect?
April 2009... ...world ends.

...jf (psychic) weldon

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 01 May 08 - 08:55 AM

Donuel,

Did ya' see Hillary tryin' to get the gas pump to work yesterday???

I instantly thought of you... Get to work on a cartoon...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 08 - 08:51 AM

Politics is not rocket science, it is a practice of acquiring power by great wealth or great emotions, usually both.

Acquiring power by great truth is a difficult road to hoe but Obama is doint it anyway.


Faulting Obama for revealing that he is a church goer (pandering to religionists as you put it) is like McCain calling the populist candidate an elitist. That dog won't hunt.

Hillary's phoney southern babtist accent is pandering, McCain's Bob Jones visits and accepting the endorsement of pastors of immense bigotry and hatred is pandering. Barak does not pander to religionists in any way shape or form as you suggest.


To make this a campaign of guilt by wierd association and relationships is the opposite of the entire spirit of the Gettysburg address. (this is important to understand)

YES Barak could launch into the sick associations that Hillary and McCain have but I believe he is too honorable and smart to go down that divisive road of hate and fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:26 PM

One of the demonstrators in Florida, when asked whether or not she was a Hillary supporter, said, "We're not supposed to talk about that".

LOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:25 PM

"my crystal ball is burned out"

Yeah, mine too.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:20 PM

Well, yer preachin' to the choir on McMedia's fascination with keeping such a non-issue as the Obama/Wright thing going forever, Fantz... I don't get it either... Well, yes I do... There are folks within McMedia that don't mind "the nigga" being prez-ee-dent as long as "the nigga" has bowed down to them before becoming prez-ee-dent??? Like, what's that all about, Fantz??? They ain't put McCaion 'er yer gal, McClinton, in that trick bag???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:14 PM

The Florida voters should be demonstrating in front of their own legislature. They are the ones that screwed with their franchises.

I would say that it is likely that the people demonstrating were Republican staffers. Just like the demonstrators against the recounts in 2000.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:55 PM

I said the polls were more accurate than the pundits, who keep trying to make Wright a 24/7 story--which, amazingly enough, keeps the focus on Obama. No surprise there, the MSM pundits don't want to talk about any thing but Obama, Obama, Obama.

They have completely lost the plot with their Obama obsessions.

Voters could give a shit, they can't afford a tank of gas and grocery shopping in the same week any more, the economy is so bad.

Any candidate who doesn't play to the "it's the economy, stupid" ain't gonna get very far this year.

But my crystal ball is burned out. I haven't a clue what is going on in Indiana or NC, nor would I dare make any predictions about the outcome at this point. Except to say, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if next Tuesday's result leaves us in exactly the same place we are today. Deadlocked.

I loved the Florida voters demonstrating outside DNC headquarters today though! The one bright spot of the news day, to be sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:43 PM

Polls accurate???

Hey, we have polls out there that are 12 points different on the same questions...

Accurate, my butt...

Not only that but polls this far out from November and with all the politics and problems, if one wants to live on today's polls, fine, have at it... These polls don't mean jack in the long run... Too volitile a year... Like '68... Things are gonna change on the ground week to week until November and as a poli-sci/ed major in college, I'm lovin' all of it... Even when McMedia beats up Obama...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:35 PM

Who does speak for all women voters???

Chongo? (I know he'd like to...but I don't think he does! Not even close.)

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:31 PM

No I don't speak for any women voters. I am talking about the Republican women I know, and also some independents. I don't speak for them, either. I am only reporting what they have told me.

The polls have swung back in favor of Obama today.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:18 PM

Carol, it is clear you don't speak for all women voters--Clinton regained women she had lost to Obama in the PA primary. A lot of them, in fact.

Soccer moms may like the idea of flirting with the sexy new boy, but they are going to vote dinner table and school issues. Which is why they are drifting back to Clinton.

Honest to god, I think voters recognize the country is in such fucking awful shape, they don't give a damn about party affiliation this year. They just want to stop the pain and suffering they see all around them, everywhere you look.

Even well to do Republicans who were rubbing everyone's face in their good fortune are putting on the poor mouth these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:11 PM

Actually, it is the polls that are more accurate (which isn't saying much, because the nature of polling is changing in this election due to more voters living w/out landlines) than the pundits at this point.

They seem unwilling to go with their race baiting leads with Wright. However, there is absolutely no solid evidence that the Wright story has hurt Obama one bit among his supporters, we know he is unlikely to lose a single vote in the African American community, because they are voting to save the race, not the candidate, and the numbers haven't moved since Super Tuesday much at all, despite Clinton's big wins.

No, I don't think you can say anyone is "unelectable" at this point, because there just doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm out there for ANY of the three candidates outside their core supporters, who are refusing to budge.

With the voters split three ways, this is a race tailor made for a third party or indie run. Not even the big bogeyman of the angry black man can scare voters off their preference.

Which leave the mysterious and unknown gap between the Dems & Repubs the MSM refuses to talk about, the swing/independent voters.

Party partisans seem to be saying "none of the above". Hence the Dem deadlock, and underwhelming support for McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Amos
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 06:37 PM

dd how similar VOT sounds to other anonymous voices we've heard echoing through these hallowed cyberhalls in days past.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 06:09 PM

By the way, the Republican women I know would rather pull out all of their own teeth themselves than vote for Hillary. They hate her. And the prospect of having a woman for president will not persuade them to feel or think otherwise. I know some women who are unaffiliated who feel that way as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 06:08 PM

Polls these day change faster than the weather...

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 06:03 PM

Voice of truth. You say a number of things which, while valid as opinions, do pass the muster as facts.

Certainly Hillary will get some female Republicans to vote for her. But, God forbid, if she is the nominee, a lot more Republicans will be motivated to come out and vote against her and her husband.

Last week Obama was beating McCain by ten points. Next week he will be again.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 05:31 PM

Most of the recent polls are showing that Obama will either tie or lose to McCain. Hillary beats McCain in the polls.

This will change once the Republican machine aims its sights on her instead of Obama. They are currently gunning for Obama in my state, which is having its primary on May 6th. They are not gunning for Hillary. This is because they would rather run against Hillary in the fall than Obama. Once the Republican attack machines level their sights on Hillary, she is toast.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Voice of Truth
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 05:26 PM

Most of the recent polls are showing that Obama will either tie or lose to McCain. Hillary beats McCain in the polls. Obama may have the appearance of being a 'different type of politician' but many voters are increasingly finding him to be untrustworthy. Or at least, of being no more trustworthy than any other politician. With his lack of experience, even those who trust his word implicitly must question if he can implement change. And with the recent Wright scandal, many pundits are predicting a free fall for Obama.

McCain may very well pick up Independents, undecideds and Reagan Democrats, (besides folks who are anti Obama for..other reasons) which will offset the right wing of his party that distrusts him.

Hillary is the candidate to beat McCain. It is still, in many areas, a sexist nation, as you mentioned,and I believe that accounts for much of the antagonism to Hillary; even on this site I hear vicious, mysogonist (and just plain silly) rantings about her qualificaitons that really come down to viewing her as an 'uppity b***h. There's often more comments on her marriage or how she wears her pantsuits than about her qualifications, her platforms and her successes in the Senate. But there has been a(perhaps underreported) groudswell of support for the idea of a woman candidate, not just from women, but from men who have no prejudice against a woman leader, and especially from those who want to see their daughters being able to live and THRIVE in a better world.

One may be tempted to forget that half the nation is women. But do not be surprised to find there may be many women who even have, in the past, voted straight Rebublican all their lives, but who will enter the curtained sanctuary of the voting booth, and think about the struggles of their lives and the future of their children. Those woman have a chance to step out of the marginalized role that has been women's history for many centuries, and they will pull the lever for Hillary. I think she is the better candidate overall, but besides that, she is, in my opinion, the only candidate who has a chance of winning against the very powerful Republican party.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 05:26 PM

Yo, Truth-ster... This ain't meant to be an attack but you need a new handle to better reflects reality... You are biased... Hey, it's okay to be biased (not prejudice) but you are defending your ***opinion***...

I agree with Jack... Yer handle needs a serious make-over...

No dis intended...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 04:58 PM

A person attack me for being naive about Obama, then complains about being attacked.

A person speaking for the vast majority of votes in this country then accuses someone else for being grandiose

Change it to "Voice of my own opinion which is worth as much as anyone else's" And someone might care what you say. It is certainly not your place to judge what is truth for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 04:52 PM

Newsweek recently came up with a list of five reasons he is not electable, besides the two decade alliance with Wright's hate mongering church is: a financial scandal, Obama's race in (a sadly still) bigoted nation, the inexperience factor and the final point that Obama may just not have the drive and power to win compared to other seasoned candidates.

These might look insurmountable until you stack them up against the problems with Hillary and McCain, and then they look rather paltry by comparison.

Hillary and McCain voted for and supported an unpopular war. Hillary is almost universally reviled by Republicans, who will mobilize the Republican vote against her if she is the nominee - many of whom would likely stay home on election day if Obama is the nominee, because they really dislike McCain.

Hillary has financial scandals in her background as well, and while her supporters may think they are old news, many voters will not, and the Republican machine will make sure no one forgets about them. Hillary's race in (a sadly still) sexist nation. Remember, Blacks got the vote before women did. Hillary cannot compete with McCain on the experience factor, either. Hillary cannot compete with McCain on many of the things she's campaigning against Obama on, like readiness on day one, national security, experience, etc, and she doesn't have Obama's advantage of not having voted for the war.

McCain has the disadvantage of having voted for the war, and having supported many of the Bush policies that the electorate is angry about. He also has political and financial scandals in his background. He is disliked by many Republicans. His health care proposals do not address the problem of pre-existing conditions. His approaches to many of the problems the voters face today will not significantly help the people who are most in need. Essentially his approach is the same as the Republicans' approach has been for decades. Voters are suffering because of this approach and they want a new and better approach.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Voice of Truth
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 04:25 PM

The debacle with Obama's minister, who, I believe, is just revealing his true self, is just part of the problems with Obama's electability.Obama distancing himself NOW, after recently saying that Rev. Wright was like his family and could not be discarded, looks false and manipulative. Obama saying he didn't 'know' this (side of ) Rev. Wright either looks like Obama is totally myopic on the character of those in his life (surely not a good trait for President) OR that he is just another typical truth twisting politician.

Newsweek recently came up with a list of five reasons he is not electable, besides the two decade alliance with Wright's hate mongering church is: a financial scandal, Obama's race in (a sadly still) bigoted nation, the inexperience factor and the final point that Obama may just not have the drive and power to win compared to other seasoned candidates.

I know that most times I have posted here, as a Hillary supporter, I have been attacked.(if my posts themselves have not been deleted) But I do wish the Obama supporters would take a long hard look at the flaws in this candidate. How can one not question why a man who is supposedly devoted to unity spent so many years in the tutelage of a hate spewing ,paranoid, postering man like Wright? . Obama previously explained that Wright was just an 'old fashioned' civil rights type- but actually Wright is now being revealed to being grandiose, accusatory, insular hatemonger. Don't forget that 'old fashioned' civil rights leaders also included visionaries like Martin Luther King. Perhaps the dyed in the wool supporters of Obama will again choose to turn a blind eye and not see the discrepency here, not to mention the blatant hypocrisy of their candidate of 'unity'.

(btw, I would like to say that since the sixties I have belonged to two houses of worship; BOTH have been multi-racial and multi -ethnic; that has been MY conscious choice - I have also been to all black and all white ministries, and I NEVER have heard, nor would I have long tolerated, the rantings of such a maniacal individual as Rev. Wright)


I still believe, more than ever, that Obama's campaign is destined to fail, and that Hillary is the only chance the Democrats have to beat McCain.

Obama supporters may STILL not see the widening fissures in Obama's character, nor find any doubts in his abliities to lead this country.

But I know that the vast majority of voters of this nation will.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:02 PM

heric, it is a WTF thing. Little bits and pieces of possibly relevant info will dribble out in the coming weeks. For instance, it was only today that I learned Wright called Moyers and requested the interview. That fact isn't being widely reported in the press. I also don't know what it means in the "big scheme" and I don't know who's "big scheme" it is driving these events.

I'm guessing most everyone except the players involved are in the dark, just like we are.

But there are bound to be other shoes dropping, so I guess we all wait to see how many, depending on how many legs this saga grows.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 02:59 PM

Thank you, Bobert, That is a good 'un.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 01:16 PM

Well, gol danged...

Who here doesn't have friends who have strange views??? George Bush and John McCain certainly have some... I mean, lets get real here, we all do... Now take the numbers of folks you are friends with who hold strange views and multiple that by a 100 because politicans have lots more friends than the average guy on the street...

So here we have people running for office who are friends with one heck of alot of folks who hold strange views...

Question #1: Should we expect candidates to disasssociate themselves from their friends who have strange views???

(But, Bobert, this was Obama's pastor and a man from whom Obama recieved counsel!!!)

So??? Exactly how does this change the original question??? Advice and counsel about what??? Foriegn policy??? The economy???

Question #2: Given the policies that Obama has put forth which policy has Jeremiah Wright's finger prints on it???

(But, Bobert, why did Obama wait so long to jetison Rev Wright???)

Okay, maybe he is human and has a sense of loyalty to his friends, regardless of their strange views... Is that a crime??? Or sin???

Lets get real here, I have friends who have strange views, some of whom are regulars here in Mudville (lol...)... It's a hard thing to tell a friend that "it's over"... If anything, it makes me respect Obama more for sticking to his friend until McMedia made it painfully clear that McMedia would accept nothing less than a fully prostrated Obama...

McMedia 1, Obama 0 on this one...

Now maybe McMedia will do the same to McCain and McClinton and find one of their supporters with strange views and put them thru the hoops to see how well they do in the McMedia's Prostrate Test???

B~)

P.S. I still like what Jeremiah Wright says... I think he's an entertaining and very thoughfull man... Do I agree with everything he says??? No, I don't agree with everything anyone says... But he will make you think, that muchy is for sure...

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: heric
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 01:09 PM

I haven't seen any of the Wright video, but the description of a person with a responsible and rational approach, and a faultless demeanor, changing within a few days to a pompous, aggressive demagogue in front of other press members a few days later seems to be relevant to his motives. In other words, it doesn't seem likely that he had a plan to repay Obama, or harm him in any way, or it would have been more obvious at the start, no? Speculating, it seems more likely that he sees his duty to speak the truth as he sees it, and when antagonized, his frustration when faced with a dilemma –plain truth versus campaigning nuance – got the better of him?

Still hard to understand, though, what motivated him to set up that press schedule, especially with no prior notice to Obama. Selfishness seems most likely (but not rising to the level of deliberate self-aggrandizement, and not out of spite, either.) Just a guess. It really is a WTF event.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 11:36 AM

I can't remember, I'd have to go back and look it up.

My recollection of his most controversial remarks about 9/11, is that it was his sermon the Sunday after 9/11, when vengeance run amok was everywhere, and he was trying to pull his congregation back from that.

IMO, he did the right thing attempting to do that, so I can't diss him for that.

I was more focused on that aspect of the video as I watched.

Wright's subsequent claims this week that he was quoting the Iraq ambassador, was completely off my radar.

Don't know if that helps any, but that is what I'm recalling. The media didn't put Wright's remarks in the context of "the Sunday after 9/11" IMO. Far worse and more inflammatory rhetoric was being spewed in mainstream white churches and synagogues in the wake of 9/11--where they were all screaming for bloody vengeance it seemed at the time--and far more frightening to me at the time.

9/11 brought out the white racist lynch mob--whether parading in god's clothes or the general's clothes. My greatest fear at the time was they closed the borders, so I and my family couldn't get out if we needed to.

Some of us have FBI files for our political activism and political associations over the years, and both my partner and I were, like many of our friends and political associates, terrified for our own personal safety in the weeks that followed 9/11. When the Canadian border was reopened, we heaved a huge sigh of relief.

Scary times, and we still aren't past them. For instance, we are pretty nervous about the RNC coming to our town. My partner & I (when I went to pick him up) got pulled in by airport security coming back from Philly (he was there at the same time as the pres candidates, shooting an unrelated documentary) with his TV camera.

We know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:44 AM

Fantasma - I agree with everything you state above. But it seems to me like the problems with this campaign--and propably a number of others that weren't as obvious because the didn't last as long--started with the Iowa Caucuses. Special interest groups within the Iowa structure sprung loose two wing nuts on the American public, Huckabeen and Obama. The Republicans were able to sideline their wing nut, but not before he did a lot of damage. I think both parties ought to get rid of caucuses all together.

                      That having been said, if you watched the entire videos of the various sermons--I couldn't imagine sitting through an entire sermon myself, I can barely tolerate commercials--but when Wright made the "coming home to roost" comment, was he really quoting the ambassador to Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:40 AM

And don't forget, Donuel, I am the one who has tried to draw attention to the Ward Churchill 9/11 "Chickens Coming Home to Roost" comparisons.

I followed that story very closely, because I have been personally acquainted w/Churchill in my past.

What Wright says about 9/11, IMO, is absolutely true.

What is absolutely nuts, IMO, are his claims that because Tuskegee happened, that AIDs is the same deal. Not rational. Get the hook, pull him off the stage, please.

I know his position on "the Palestinian question" is likely also rooted in black nationalist contempt for Jews, which is legendary at this point. I hate that about the black nationalists--their anti-Semitism makes me sick, far more than their whitey race baiting tactics, which I often find amusing.

Remember, the thing that ruined Jesse Jackson's chances at the presidency was his Hymietown remark. Shot himself in his own damn two feet.

As far as I'm concerned, Obama did the same damn thing vis a vis Wright.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:16 AM

I saw it all, Donuel. The original videotapes that were sold on the church's website--in their entirety.

I saw & read the complete, unedited videos and transcripts of the Obama race speech in Philadelphia, the Moyers interview, the NAACP speech, the Press Club speech, and Press Club Q & A.

I figure I am very well informed to speak to the Wright debacle, and at the end of the day, fault Obama for playing the religion card to further his political ambitions and make himself more electable to begin with. The sucking up to religious voters game has duly blown up in his face. I can confidently say, he had that one coming. His chickens came home to roost.

That said, while Obama was busy playing religions cards, the media was playing the race card on him, to trump his religion cards, so to speak.

Now, how come a not that smart honky like me can figure out what is happening, while the smartest guys in Obama's back room couldn't figure it out, including the Obamas themselves?

No, sir. I won't blame this all on the media. The Obamas and their supporters are really smart people, and know how to play the MS politics and MSM games to their advantage. They know how to vacuum up the money. Obama is an extraordinarily gifted mainstream politician. I never bought the campaign propaganda that he wasn't a "politician as usual" politician, because I view him as the newest cynical, manipulative incarnation of the "US politician as usual". They morph into their opposite every now and then, when times for the voters get a little rough.

Politics 101. See disgruntled electorate, become opposite of the person who disgruntles them most. Voila! President Obama.

It ain't rocket science.

Nope, this one is bad judgment on the Obama campaign's part. Just like the Clinton debacle on tarmac in Bosnia, or wherever, story.

Clinton is far more experienced, and her quick mea culpa turn around in the most watched presidential debate yet was very astute and savvy.

Compare that to the Obama campaign. Faltering, stumbling, off message, demoralized, letting the loose cannon wander off reservation for days before blasting him into oblivion...no, that is just plain stupid. Not the moves of somebody who can pivot, toss the grenade back in the other guys lap, and cross the finish line in a cloud of obfuscating smoke (the current standard in US presidential elections).

Like it or not, we have voluntarily walked ourselves to the end of this plank. One of these three assholes is the next leader of the free world.

And that should make everybody sleep badly.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:58 AM

I do have to agree that it's Rev. Wright who has "thrown himself off the train," or if you prefer to the "media lions."

Obama probably anticipated that this might happen but had the "audacity" to hope it wouldn't.

If I were closer to the action I would also find it difficult to sleep.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:58 AM

Did you see the entire National Press Club speech by Wright?

When he is not taking a dump in front of a presidential race parade he does have his entertaining moments. He does funny voices like Bill Cosby and cracks wise with about 1/4 the humor of Chris Rock.

Jesus took Peter aside and said "there are some things I can not reveal now because they (the other apostles) are not yet ready to understand them".
I bet it was Peter who was the one who could not understand.
Likewise the American people are not ready to understand the actual history of retro virus experimentation or the back story behind 9-11 (as we have seen on this forum alone)

Wright will take his seat on talk show panels in the future and will be the Mike Gravel of the Black voice for several years. Then he will pull an unforgivable gaff and become persona non gratia similar to Imus.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:06 AM

Actually, it makes me feel ashamed to be human, truly.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:03 AM

I'm waxing philosophical about it all this morning.

Knowing this tempest in a teapot over Wright's remarks is only relevant to the presidential ambitions of Obama, I then look at the incredibly unjust and demoralizing decision in the police brutality case regarding Sean Bell, and feel like I want to throw in the towel.

The punditocracy ignores the Sean Bell case, and instead goes running with their mics and camera after a man who was made irrelevant and redundant at the same time, and decided he wouldn't go gently into that good night.

Which of these two "race" stories most accurately reflects the "state of race relations" in the US today?

I would say, the Sean Bell case. An innocent man, showered in a hail of police bullets, murdered by their (the police officers') fear of black men.

But then, I also know the deeply disturbing saga of Damon Wayans' "Abortion Man" video:

http://whataboutourdaughters.blogspot.com/

That also is the truth I see everyday, living and working in the African American community too. Which also depresses me, and makes me want to make Spike Lee's film "Bamboozled" required viewing in every junior high school in America.

So today, I know the media won it's racist gotcha game. I feel deeply uncomfortable with it, but know the media was only able to get away with it because Obama allowed it to go this far. He has known all along he would have to throw Wright from the train, so why did he wait until it so poisoned the debate in the public square?

But then there is the part of me that empathizes with this man I detest for being the best corporate candidate in the history of the planet, because I know how unfair it is to expect one human being to "heal" the 600 year old racial wounds of a nation and a world, when that isn't what the dude is all about.

So, the whole thing still makes me sick. And when I think how cynically and evilly he is being manipulated by those corporate masters who are drowning him in their dollars, even sicker still.

To say it makes me ashamed to be an American doesn't even begin to cover it.

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 10:46 PM

As a Christain, I agree, Rigs...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Throw the Reverend from the Train
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 10:41 PM

The concept of throwing bible-Thumpers off the train seems like a really good idea to me. When are we going to get rid of the rest of them?