BS: America WAS a Christian Nation

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 02:49 PM

I think many of us are ignoring the title as nothing more than a place holder. Sort of like Christianity was a place holder for the past 2000 years until humans get a clue. Just joking, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 02:44 PM

It is somewhat instructive and interesting that the premise of the thread title has been so easily accepted as a valid point for argument/discussion. It's much like saying that the flesh from three-legged chickens taste better breaded and then baked--and then another person argues that no, it tastes better marinated then fried. Folks, there ain't no three-legged chickens.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 02:03 PM

A lot of people feel like this--that their world, their, lives, and their faith, are slipping away--and, to a great degree, they are right--

And, fairly logically, they are angry at the people who are promote and support the changes that are squeezing them out--For Chuck, that includes the pinkos and liberals here--

That's an interesting dilemma there, M.Ted. According to that way of looking at things, it would seem that for people like Chuck, in order for him to feel secure in being who he is, other people can't be who they are.

I had a similar dilemma with my mother in the last decade or two of her life. She had become an evangelical fundamentalist Christian, and according to her way of thinking, hers was the true way and all other ways were evil and products of the devil. It was quite a balancing act to try to uphold the validity of my own beliefs and experiences (which in my mother's eyes were "of the devil"), while at the same time trying to avoid invalidating my mother's beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 01:35 PM

The problem will come, not when America stops being a Christian nation, but when Chuck Hemlick stops being able to practice his particular version of Christianity--

I don't agree with him on much of anything--which is probably as it should be, but I respect his life, which has combine family, music, and a real life committment to religious values, as he experiences them--

When Chuck says that America is moving away from Christian Values, he is telling us that he feels that there is less place in America for the life he, his family, and friends, have been invested in--and that he sees a future in which there may be no place for it at all--

A lot of people feel like this--that their world, their, lives, and their faith, are slipping away--and, to a great degree, they are right--

And, fairly logically, they are angry at the people who are promote and support the changes that are squeezing them out--For Chuck, that includes the pinkos and liberals here--

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:32 PM

Guest Blackcatter:

I think you have brought up an important point. Those of us who feel there is no 'one way' have more in common, though of different original backgrounds, then those who grow up steeped in inerrancy, whatever their faiths.

Maybe that's why God has arranged that there are so many faiths. So we can figure out for ourselves that no one path is the only path.

And getting back to the Founding Fathers (and their wives) that is why in the Declaraion of Independence the invocation is to "the laws of Nature and of Nature's God..." which belie the evangelical rightists of our current era.

The Founding Fathers were creatures of The Enlightenment, and were a well read, well briefed group of very bright folk. They were not eager to return to the dark ages of religious orthodoxy.

No rule by mullahs!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:17 PM

What I don't understand is why so many followers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are uptight and fretful about things outside their religion. I am a Unitarian and a Pagan and am entirely comfortable about my faith and practice and an genuinely happy when other express thay have a chosen path (or in the case of non-believers - have that).

I only get bothered when someone expresses hatred about my faith or if they belittle it. I will defend my faith at that point, and will take measures to fight for my and other people's rights to practice those faiths in this country.

I've been a witness in 7 child custody hearings in Florida and Tennessee. Each case revolved around a father who wanted to take the kids completely away from their mother simply because she was a Witch/Pagan. Luckily, the courts in each case eventually held up the mother's rights to practice a religion that was not harmful to herself or her children. But in several of the cases this happened AFTER the kids were forcably removed from the mother's care by law enforcement agents.

That is why I fight against the religious "right" whichever faith they may claim to be. Their intollerance of other's faiths not only hurts good people, it pushes the human evolution back to the level of the Crusades.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Daithi
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:43 AM

I agree Bill. The problem is mainly with religions which insist that they have a monopoly on the truth...(avoids trying to work out a definition of Truth - not enough hours in the day!). Many of the fundamentalist versions of Christianity - including the evangelical and proselytising sects - cannot admit this. In the UK we have an established church which, to be politically correct and liberal, wants dialogue with other faiths (of which there are now many in an increasingly multi-cultural Britain) but also can't stomach sitting down with some who it disagrees with. It's Karl Popper's "Paradox of Democracy".
D

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:32 AM

Yes...there is language there that may indeed reflect some of the founders beliefs...especially in your know what to look for...there were certainly Masons, as well as Deiests and 'regular' Christians among the Founders, but to their credit, they managed to craft documents which did not overtly 'promote' any particular creed or way of life. Those very same documents, however, being non-specific, have been read by many as supporting THEIR position.

The point I find in the Constitution is that there should be freedom to practice whatever religion you choose, but no obligation to choose any! This is the point so many ardent Christians have trouble with. "We are in the majority, we must be right"....With demographics changing daily, they might NOT be the majority forever...then what?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Daithi
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:59 AM

Forgive the intrusion - as I'm neither American nor Christian - but from what little I know about the US constitution and your Founding Fathers (not to mention yiour bank notes)it seems to me that there is a distinctly Masonic flavour to the way in which God is referred to by some of your early movers and shakers.(no pun intended)

I'm not referring here to urban myths and conspiracy theories about freemasonry - just the fact that it teaches tolerance of all religions ("under God") respect and compassion for one's fellows and a basic moral approach to life. Seems to me your nation was founded on Masonic ideals, not specifically christian ones. Comments?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:10 AM

ROFLMAO, robo!

Dewey, a reasonable post, thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 07:10 AM

Great Movie Quote applies here:

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Elmer Gantry

They liked it so much they used it in Corinthians Chapter 13, verse 11

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Bagpuss
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:20 AM

I know a fair few muslims, and none of them have anything to do with polygamy, and Im sure would find the idea bizarre.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Dewey
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:43 AM

I understand your point reguarding the moral decay of the nation. I also see *THAT* more as the issue than the population getting an influx of other religions.

We would be somewhat LESS of a nation, if we told other human beings which God they MUST Worship. It is after all: a free country.

I believe many of the founding fathers DID read the Bible, i.e. Washington, Franklin, Jefferson etc.

I also know that despite there Christian experiences, they also taught religious tolarance and acceptance toward all cultures and religions, and also believed in a "Supreme Being"

This is the God of the United States, in the founding fathers time as well as now. It was made so, not because the founding father didn't have their own views on God, they certainly did. They just understood the importance of the free discourse of ideas as well as the moral necessity to Rely on a higher power for guidance (i.e. God)

If you think that christianity is declining however, I would strongly disagree. Actually I believe there are probably more christians now than ever before, and churches are flurishing (Just look in you local phone book for Christian Churches and I am CERTAIN you will find more of this variety than any other PERIOD. So I can't see the problem as that.

I think if America is to be a strong nation it has to sincerely believe in the right of freedom of religion and political discourse. I know Franklin had a lot to say on that in his writtings. I have always admired the man because he had an OPEN mind.

For example, established Christianity in America would be far from open: and there is a good and logical reason not to let the Jerry Fawell's and the Pat Robertson's of the world make the laws of the Nation. I can't think of anything more anti-democratic than that.

I think the old addage and song, "You go to your church and I'll go to mine" applies here.

I see the ungodliness not so much in the fact that America has synogues and mosques (however you spell it) But in the General Lack of Morality over all. This is the real SIN, not the fact that everyone in America is not Christian.

When for example America allows Howard Stern on prime time radio and television, (and in front of our young people and children) to talk about oral sex and and asks various guest to strip before him and show him their "Arse". Then the country has a real moral crisis on its hands. Judgment will come on America for THESE THINGS ONLY, not freedom of choice, even Jesus did not DEMAND we be christian, that was our choice and a free choice at that.

Please stop fearing Christianity as on the decline, it is still number one in American Society. As for the moral standards of the country that is another issue entirely.

America HAS turned away from God but not because it tolerates other religions and fellow citizens. I see this more or less as healthy for the nation not harmful. For example, Go try living under the Iranian government's policy of religion if you doubt me.



Sure we Christians lose a few battles (i.e. the Ten Commandments, prayer in school, the controversy over the pledge of allegence etc.)

Just Remember it isn't bad to have separation of Church and state, even if some of those people out there (atheists, anti-christians etc.) occasionaly have there way with policy. One still can go to a church of one's choosing and read the bible. I know my own is within less than a foot of me, and no-one from the government has come around yet to take it from me, and much like the heritage of my flag, the Country will always have Jesus in their hearts and in their homes, As for how they live their lives nowadays, that is another issue entirely.

Peace to All From a Loving God

Dewey (The Tolerant, Christian Heretic)

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 04:32 PM

Yes, and there most certainly IS a religious Left.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 04:24 PM

Frank,

You are one smart guy, amigo!


A

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:54 PM

I think FoF misses the point. I don't see Christians slamming each other. What I see is many who use Christianity to inflict their views on others. The problem with using an approach that preaches by exhorting others to "stop that" is that it often reflects upon the "preacher". Why is it that the preacher consider himself as so special to talk down to others?

Too many preachers abound but few who can walk the walk.

There is not one unified Christianity today. There are sects and followers who disagree on the nature of Christianity as there always has been throughout our history. There may have been one Jesus and I think that his teachings are loud and clear in the Beatitudes. I don't see them being followed by any so-called Christians today.

As to this business of "righteousness". It's a quagmire because those who espouse it misuse it as if to say they know what it is and others don't. This kind of condescension gives Christianity and religion in general a bad name.

I am impressed with the interpretation of Joseph Campbell, I believe to be a genius, who sees the power of myth in religion as a socializing force but sees it also as deviant when it is narrowly and literally applied by demagoguery.

This is an important discussion because religion has found it's way into the political area through the devious mantle of "values" which are lauded by the Religious Right and have ignored basic human rights and values such as economic relief for the working poor, the corruption found in many major American corporations today, the infringement of civil liberties through fear of "terrorism" and the neo-con subjugation of women through attempting to legislate their bodies. Also, the introduction of pre-emption as an American foreign policy has defiled any claim to divinity.

The "religious" wars have been manufactured as part of the Culture Wars at the expense of a class war which is very much with us today.

You will begin to see, now, the rise of the Religious Left which is concerned with these human rights and have been silent too long through the intimidation of the media, and neo-con pundits.

It's a new day.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:19 PM

SIghhhhh.

America's blessings come from her trilliions of dollars worth of natural resources, her natural isolation by large seas from other parts of the world east and west, and the fact that her indigenous population had not developed steel, more than they come from any pie-in-the-sky foofaraw two-bit figure head of sanctimony.

A

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Reality Credit
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:16 PM

CHUCK HEMRICK:

You have despoiled the nature of Christianity by bringing it into the base world of politics. Shame on you. Fu#k off and sin no more.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Reality Check
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:10 PM

Mommy, he's baaacck.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: FriendOfFrancis
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:30 PM

America, at her best, is a place where people can escape what they once were and pursue the chance to be something they are not yet. Most of the flag-wavers who argue about whether America was or is a Christian nation or not fail to see the trend of right-wing Republican Christians trying their hardest not to allow people to pursue what they can be, but trying to FORCE people (and this nation) to be what they believe it should be.

    Granted, I believe that the nation whose God is the Lord (YHWH, the I AM) will be blessed, and America has been. But America's future is no different than the future of any other nation on earth: We will all stand accountable for the gift of life God has given us. Those of us who try to legislate righteousness are going to find out that "the wrath of man worketh NOT the righteousness of God."

    I am a dyed-in-the-wool Christian, but believe me when I say that if adherents of other faiths treated me the way some of my Christian brothers treat people from their puplits, this would be a scary and miserable life indeed.

FoF+

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,chuck hemrick
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:18 PM

sorry jack...SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:15 PM

Chuck! You're back and you aren't preaching or selling anything! Welcome!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,chuck hemrick
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:10 PM

well jack,believe it or not,there is life away from the computer,especially the Mudcat room!
and,if i may say so,it's a beautiful life out there and i don't intend to waste my time and energy wondering who's going to insult me,or ridicule me next,in here!
after all,if it wasn't for the hard nosed conservatives like me in here,you liberal jackels would be bored to death day to day,trying to come up with something worthwhile to say and print in your little biased forum here!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:02 PM

I'm confused (again and still). Is Tar-Heels the Mudcatter who openly pursued Sandy Toes through the forum a while back? And is Peg Sandy Toes?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 08:50 PM

PLEASE...no preaching here! We can discuss religion, but you are PROMOTING religion.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: FriendOfFrancis
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 08:26 PM

Me? Just a fop. A regular old fop. Like all the fops you've seen before.

    Just trying to get people out of each others' hair over the whole Christianity vs. patriotism thing. I see often that some people don'tthink the two are very compatible, others think that Christ is a Republican. All I'm doing is getting the Christians (hopefully) to stop quoting all the stuff about judgement of others and start them thinking about servanthood and humility. Big fop that I am, after all.

FoF+

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 08:18 PM

Who is this fop?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: FriendOfFrancis
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 08:14 PM

Friends,

    1)Jesus spoke kindly and openly to a woman of a different nation and religion and culture. You all are name-calling and you supposedly have this group in common. Stop that.

    2)Jesus spent His life reaching out to those whose lives and choices weren't always the best ones... the Christians out here seem to be pre-occupied with quoting Scripture and, as He said, "neglecting the weightier matters... justice, mercy, good faith." So stop that, too.

    3) The Bible is the record of God's love for man, and the pronouncement of judgment on those who reject that love; salvation is for those who believe in the One God sent and persevere in well-doing, not losing heart, not rendering evil for evil but always being the most humble examples of Christ-likeness. I hear you Christians trumpeting about how right you are. Stop that, too.

    The Christ I serve is the One, though blameless and sinless, died a sinner's guilty death and never even cursed those who killed Him. You can't even bear to converse without slamming one another. Stop that.

    The Bible says to exhort and rebuke with all patience and long-suffering so that our brethren can learn to be more like Jesus. Fellow Christians, consider yourselves rebuked in love for the sake of our precious Master. I love you.

FoF+

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:34 PM

So Chuck Spams us, then comes back to tell us that he spammed us and will do so again, then he insults a couple of people does another ad then slinks off again. Good for him. I hope he sells his fiddle.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:55 PM

there are a couple of issues...one is whether ANY religion makes any sense, the other being how to deal with the very strict, non-compromise statements of the New Testament, which give ammunition to those who would promote Conservative Christianity as **THE** religion, no matter what the Constitution says.

If one believes in Jesus, and accepts that "I am the way, the truth..."etc...and that "no man comes unto the Father but by ME", (and other narrow statements) then they are sort of compelled to force their religion on others.

Many other religions have a simpler attitude.."We have OUR prophets and Gods, you have yours...we don't argue with YOU unless you make fun of US!"....the USA is supposed to allow free expression of religion, while promoting none..but you'd never know it to hear blessings invoked "in the name of Jesus" for everything from sports events to wars to mall openings!

I get rather annoyed...I'm sure that if there is a God, he can hear your prayers if you do them silently

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:37 PM

Right on, BWL.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: belter
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 03:05 PM

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

need I say more?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 02:13 PM

Well put, BWL, and more succinct than my post several yards up the screen.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 02:03 PM

The teachings of Jesus have a long history of being hijacked, edited and rewritten to suit the needs of powerseeking people whose sole desire is to maintain a stranglehold over the lives of others. It began just a couple of centuries after Jesus' death when the gospels which portrayed Jesus as a teacher who said "I'm not so special. Each of you has the potential to be as I am." were tossed out and labeled heresy while only those that portrayed him as a leader who said "I am unique and you must worship me." were retained as part of the canon. How can a hierarchal church seeking to control the lives of its followers embrace a figurehead who says that hierarchy and control are illegitimate? It can't. So, it cherrypicks the stories that work toward its ends and ignores the others. Remember that Jesus himself wrote nothing. The gospels upon which the Christian religion are based were written by his followers. And like the blind men describing the elephant, each of the authors of the gospels described the aspects of Jesus that he perceived. Taken as a whole, they may do a fairly good job of portraying a man who was, undoubtedly, one of the most enlightened beings to ever walk the earth. But the gospels which the early church canonized (and upon which all subsequent flavors of Christianity are based) don't tell the entire picture and I, for one, will not associate myself with any church that claims that they do.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Peace
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:21 PM

IMO, LH, the 'one nation under God' was put there to allow for other religions. Christians don't seem to allow for much that ain't Christian. Kinda lately it's 'my way or the highway' and I'm tired of it. No offense to anyone. The fundies seem to think they have a corner on the God market--and the reserve parking in heaven--and it don't wash with me. They are trying to manipulate the American government (and doing a good job at it I might add), and I find them to be untrustworthy bastards no matter how much they stuff God down my throat. Sorry, but that's my view. I don't have the wisdom of Solomon, but then, neither do they. They seem to have got his riches, though.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:01 PM

True enough, Stilly.

Bruce - Well, I think what the poster may have had in mind was that mainstream North American society was mostly composed of at least nominal Christians until fairly recently...whether or not it was so stated in the official governmental documents. Most people at the time of the Civil War, for instance, would certainly have identified themselves as Christians.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Peace
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 04:09 PM

The main thing wrong with this thread is the title. It's bullshit. America never was a Christian Nation. Show me ONE reference to Jesus in the Constitution or B of R. Show me ONE! And if you can't, then kindly #@%* &!! about it. Warmest thanks.

Chuck, I hope your missus heals, buddy. The best to you both.

B Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 04:02 PM

. . .and religiou$ money. . .

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 12:11 PM

True enough, but that's small potatoes when compared to the influence of $money...(the real prevailing religion these days)

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 12:08 PM

In the United States, at least until recent years, religion has been safe from interference by the government. But especially within very recent years, the government has not been safe from interference by religion.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:54 AM

"Right-wing evangelicals have hi-jacked Jesus for their own political advantage."

Frank, you are so right. Jesus is respected by the Muslims, and accepted as one of their most important prophets of God. Jesus is accepted by the vast majority of Hindus and Buddhists and revered as one of the most important prophets of God. Most Native American spiritual leaders admire Jesus and his essential teachings, because they are universal teachings. The people whom I regard as almost the least exemplary of Jesus' actual teachings are the Religious Right in America. Like the fanatics of the Spanish Inquisition before them, they have co-opted a beautiful spiritual teaching and turned it into a monstrosity.

And as others have pointed out, "God" is not an entity exclusive to the Christian religion, therefore a nation "under God" is not by definition a Christian nation. The Christians don't "own" God. :-)

peedeecee - Actually, my rightwing pal is very pro-Native American! In this he is consistent, as he always tends to favour the indigenous people (those who have been in an area longer) over the new arrivals. He's basically anti-immigrant. This is a bit ironical, though, because HE emigrated from Scotland to Canada when he was in his 20's. :-) He figures that doesn't count, because Canada was already an English-speaking and predominantly Anglo-Saxon culture when he arrived. He seems to be bothered by different cultures arriving from foreign shores. He is under the impression, same as Kipling was, that "the twain shall never meet".

What he is really objecting to is change, and that is a typically old time conservative position, isn't it? But it's not neo-conservative! Those guys would like to make big changes...all for the worse (unless you're very rich). He's not neo-conservative. He's old time conservative, but more than most. This helps explain why he can't find anyone to vote for. His kind of conservatism has almost ceased to exist on the political party level.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:02 AM

it should be stated that there is no reference to Jesus in the US Constitution. Hardly an argument for a Christian nation.

Also, John Adams informed the island of Barbary Coast to it's Muslim inhabitants, "We are not a Christian nation."

Tom Jefferson in his letter to the Baptists reaffirmed his view of separation of Church and State. Jefferson would not recognize the religion of the right-wing evangelicals today as being a valid Christianity.

The Ten Commandments were based on The Code of Hannarabi, a pre-Christian ideal from the Indus Valley.

In short, the so-called religious Right-wing evangelicals have hi-jacked Jesus for their own political advantage. They seek to impose their limited moral values on the rest of society by offering the ruse that God is somehow being outlawed. This is not true. Any school kid has the right to pray whenever he or she wishes as long as it's not forced down the throat of others who have the right not to.

The US is not a Theocracy and never will be. For the evangelists, it's a losing battle and they only hurt themselves by ignoring in economic disparity in the country today.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 01:38 AM

Funny, Little Hawk, that your friend doesn't realize that Canada was never like that. Even without the French or other foreigners, there were still the native people who were here before the European whites. What would your friend make of them?

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:24 PM

Hi, Chuck! You may be pleased to know that one of my best musical friends locally describes himself as so rightwing that everyone else in the World is to the left of him...and yet we get along fine. He says there is no one he can vote for because none of them are far enough to the right. I am a left wing radical, a strong believer in the benefits of socialism. He and I usually disagree on a lot politically, yet we tend to identify a lot of the same problems in society...but propose different solutions to them.

Strange, isn't it?

He would like to turn the clock back to when Canada was a white, Anglo-Scottish-Irish culture (with a French enclave)...kick the French out...kick all the other "foreigners" out and relive the "good old days".

Ain't gonna happen. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: Amos
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:16 PM

Hey, Chuck!!

Thanks for coming by -- I wish I could take you up on the bass fiddle!! Sorry to hear about your wife's health troubles, and I hope she recovers her full stamina.

I t looks like you've been making some beautiful music for many years, and I wish you many happy returns from all the joy you've made playing for others. Regardless of our political leanings, we are about music, here, and you're part of that family even if you only show up once in a great while!

Amos

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: pdq
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:51 PM

tar_heel...thanks for the visit. God bless, and may you and your wife be well.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,chuck hemrick
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:46 PM

TO GUEST:BOTTOM FEEDER!rather be a right wing nut than a low lying commie,el pinko liberal like you!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Chuck Hemrick
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 10:37 PM

just a note to say thanks to those who responded to the article i left here!!!!i am not back in mudcat as a member,but i do not sneak in here and leave rational messages,articles,etc.,for the enjoyment of upsetting anyone here,without leaving my name!
i know this group mostly consist of the liberal left,which i am not a member, nor support!
i am a hard nose conservative and state my beliefs just as the rest of you do!
(and,i am the same chuck hemrick...aka,tar_heel,that once was a member here)!
i am going the folk thingy alone now as "tarheel and friends"!
my son/daughter have their own lives to live and i do not pressure them to travel with me to perform anywhere!
my wife peg,has health problems and cannot perform with me anymore!
her bass fiddle is for sale to anyone interested!
you can see it in our website: http://hemrickfamilysingers.homestead.com
$1000.00 is the asking price...you pay for shipping!
it's the bass fiddle that is in the photo with poeg on the home page!
anyway,i'll be back from time to time and leave more conservative views of mine!
i support our troops,the president and god bless the u.s.a.!

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,Bottom Feeder
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 06:47 PM

Tar_Heel was a right wing, religious nutjob before he went away. To tell the truth, I am sorry to see his sorry ass trying to stir up more hatred and discontent. Crawl back under your rock Chuck, turn on Rush Limbaugh, and quit peddling your bigoted crap around here.

Subject: RE: BS: America WAS a Christian Nation
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 06:16 PM

The trouble with missiahs is they have to do so much before anybody pays the slightest attention to them, then if it's attention they need and they are what they claim, why not grant totaly happiness to everybody?

I don't buy the NT story simply because the main character spoke in riddles and never actualy - as reported - owned up to being anything other than a slightly fringy Jew, and here I must remind myself he wasn't that bad of a Jew to deserve execution, but ... hey, still ain't enough reason to call him 'the' Messiah.