BS: LSD keeps you sane

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 06:24 PM

My drug history:

When I was maybe four or five years old and living in Southern California, the summers could get pretty warm. When a friend of my father's would drop over of a Sunday afternoon for a chat with Dad, and bring a six-pack of beer with him, I'd beg for some. Actually, I liked the taste of beer, and sitting around with my Dad and his friend drinking beer made me feel very grown up.

They'd pour me about three ounces into a juice glass, and after I'd consumed it, they'd be somewhat amused at me sitting there with the hiccups. Fun times!

Although the coffee houses I sang in were not (as some people thought) hotbeds of revolution and drugs, I did know some singers who were into pot, and a few into psychedelics, LSD, "magic mushrooms," and such.

I already smoked (tobacco—although I quit some thirty-five years ago), drank unhealthy amounts of coffee (the Universal Solvent for good conversation and Saving the World), and often finished off the evening with a couple of schooners of beer at the Blue Moon Tavern near the University of Washington.

A bunch of Seattle folk singers, including myself, went south to the 1964 Berkeley Folk Festival (performing were Joan Baez, Doc Watson, Mississippi John Hurt, Almeda Riddle, Sam Hinton, Alice Stuart, and I forget who all else. Charles Seeger (patriarch of the Seeger family) and Archie Green were there, conducting workshops in folk song collecting, history, and such.

There were often private parties after the evening concerts, and some of the Seattle singers got together in someone's private home. We sang a lot, and as the evening (night) progressed, the joints started getting passed around. I had heard a lot of glorious stuff about pot from some of these people, and they were urging me to give it a try. Up until now, I had always resisted. But this time, I tried it.

There were a number of things I noticed about—and during—this experience.

I was fumbling a lot on the guitar and forgetting words to songs I'd sung hundreds of times—as was everyone else there. Yet—they were all raving about how, "Wow, I've never played better!"

NOT!

And when the party broke up, I found I didn't particularly like the space-time dilations that the stuff had left me with. Not easy to walk down a flight of stairs using a pair of thirty-foot forearm crutches! There were a number of things like that that I found unsettling.

The following day, I felt foggy-headed for the morning workshops. Didn't like that! Nor did I like the fact, despite thoroughly brushing my teeth, that my mouth tasted like I had been chewing dirty socks all night long.

On subsequent occasions back in Seattle, these same folk assumed I had joined the Secret League of Pot-Heads, and were surprised when I passed up the joint when it was passed around. I told them when asked that, frankly, I didn't like it. They urged me to try it some more, that it really gets good when you get used to it! Maybe so, but, I figured I already had enough bad habits, so—no thanks.

I thought quite a bit about the misjudgment of their own musical abilities when they were high on pot, and it occurred to me that perhaps one of the reasons they had little ambition to sing anywhere beside the one coffee house where they tended to hang out (whereas non-dopers such as Bob Nelson, Nancy Quensé, Stan James, and myself were doing concerts and occasional television in addition to coffee house singing) was that they could create their own Carnegie Hall inside their own heads by taking a few tokes on a joint.

Some years later, I was working at Boeing (Production Illustration Department) alongside one of these same singers—who, after smoking a lot of pot, had gone on to try LSD.

Every now and then, I would glance at him sitting at his drawing table and he was just staring vacantly into space. He did this frequently enough so I was afraid his supervisor would notice he wasn't working, but sitting there "wool-gathering," and get himself canned. So I'd call, "Jim? Are you okay?" Maybe I'd have to call him a couple of times, then he would respond with a start, as if he had just awakened from a trance.

"Oh, God!" he'd moan, "I 'spaced out' again!"

We talked about it. He'd taken a lot of LSD, and since then, even though he was no longer taking it, he said that he often had "flashbacks."

It was really kind of buggering up his life!

Nah! I'll stick to an occasional glass of wine with meals on a special occasion or a beer on a hot summer afternoon. Heck, I've got an almost full bottle of Bailey's Irish Cream sitting in the refrigerator that someone gave me some time ago, and although I like the stuff, I keep forgetting it's there.

I like to keep my head on straight.

I get my "highs" on music, thank you.

========

There was a furious pounding on the door and a loud voice shouted, "Open up! This is the police!!"

Two pot-heads were sitting in the apartment, stoned out of their minds, and were suddenly galvanized into action by fear of getting busted.

Where to hide the stash!?? They couldn't hide the smell of pot in the room, but unless the police had tangible evidence, they couldn't make a case.

So one of the guys pulled open the little door on the cuckoo clock and pegged the joints into the clock, Then the other staggered to the door and unlocked it, letting the police in.

The police practically tore the room apart, looking everywhere, but although the room reeked of pot smoke, they weren't able to find any tangible evidence, like an actual joint. Finally, frustrated and angry, they shrugged their shoulders and started to head for the door as the two pot-heads sat there, still stoned, but smiling smugly.

Then, the little door on the cuckoo clock slowly creaked open. The little bird leaned, bleary-eyed, against the door jamb and said, "Hey, man . . . what time is it?"

Busted!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 06:01 PM

GfS... not only do you know what I am talking about, everyone who read this threads knows. Therefore, simple logic leads to the only conclusion... your posts indicate you may be not just a troll baiting people, as you baited Bobert with your personal attack on him (which was made clear my me), but you may perhaps be the stupidest troll I have ever encountered. The stupidity I have witnessed is only outdone by your persistancy at digging your hole of delusion deeper with every post.

Now, apologize to Bobert (and all Mudcatters who are simply tired of your bullshit) or, once again, fuck off.

WTF don't you understand?

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 01:45 PM

Thousands of stills don't go far with a couple of hundred million people. The gross effect of Prohibition was that much less alcohol was consumed in America. And, as that blog points out, the crime rate fell. Some people drank more, some people made illicit fortunes, some people got riddled with bullets, but the OVERALL effect was exactly as the legislators intended.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 12:52 PM

There was something else happening during the 60s and 70s when acid was in it heyday and that was hippies...

Hippies attracted a lot of whacked out mentally ill people because hippies looked, well, kinda whacked out themselves... Okay, me included...

So a lot on mentally ill people hung with hippies... I knew a few... And yeah, these people did LSD just like everyone else did... So I would be very hesitant to make a statement that it was the LSD that whacked these people out... Might not of helped their situation but like I first posted here: If you were messed up before LSD you were going to be messed up afterwards...

Now, as for prohibition??? This wasn't an "urban legend" at all...

There were thousands and thousands of stills and thousands and thousands of bootleggers running 100 gallons at a time in V-8 Fords... And there were thousands and thousands of cops trying to catch 'um... A darned good book is "Driving with the Devil" which talks all about it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 12:50 PM

FrogPrince: "Believe it or not, Gfs, I don't think you are saying anything crazy there. But I would say that you haven't so much proved anyone's misconception wrong, as indicated a valid "minority" interpretation, or brought out a commonly neglected dimension, of complex and often ambiguous material. In saying this, I'm just talking about the difficulty of establishing one clear picture of what the Bible says is happening, or will happen; whether or not what the Bible says is reliable remains a separate question."

Hey Froggers!! You said a WHOLE LOT there!..so let me go through a couple of things you addressed...OK?

FP: "But I would say that you haven't so much proved anyone's misconception wrong, as indicated a valid "minority" interpretation,.."

I don't think that it does much of any good to try to 'disprove' anyone's 'misconception', as it does to bring out certain things that in themselves causes the '"minority" interpretation' to diminish and fade away.............................(especially on here)....

FP: "........or brought out a commonly neglected dimension, of complex and often ambiguous material."

Or even a omni-verse, instead of the concept of a 'universe' as the minority interpretation usually envisions it, because if you break it all down, there are more than one dimension in what is commonly referred to as the 'universe'....and folks tend to think of the universe in terms of the matter that is detectable by our senses, or even instruments. That being said, ALL the dimensions put together, still make a 'universe', and that incomplete misinterpretation of what it is, seems to stunt people's ability to conceive that it is FAR, greater, and a more massive scope than what the 'minority misconception' allows....especially when they discount, as you say, "complex and often ambiguous material."

FP: "...I'm just talking about the difficulty of establishing one clear picture of what the Bible says is happening, or will happen;..."

'IS happening', or 'will happen' is really a matter of perception. 'Will happen' denotes 'Time'. You might think of it as a circle. If you start at one particular place on the circle, and travel around that line, then 'time' is applicable...however, if you are looking AT your circle, as a whole. then 'time' is not applicable, because you see it as one circle, with no beginning or end. Dimensional?? Perceptual??

FP: "I'm just talking about the difficulty of establishing one clear picture of what the Bible says is happening, or will happen;"

See above!!

FP: "In my Father's house are many mansion; I go to prepare a place for you, that where I am, you may be also". If that isn't in Heaven, will it be in an area of revitalized earthly desert, perhaps the Death Valley area...or what would you envision?"

Well, if it had a 'locale' that would put a 'limit' on the 'dimensional range' that it could cover, right?
I'd say that what we sense here, as our 'temporal reality', is only a small glimpse of what we COULD access, (and sometimes do), if we'd open our eyes wider and consider that 'All things are possible', depending on our receptiveness to allow them to happen, and being in humble wonderment, of the power of it all, and not taking 'credit' for any of it, but in our lives, and even in our physical bodies, being open to let manifest, what Love, life and light can really do. When we get in the way of that Light, is when we cast shadows. But if we don't make 'more of ourselves' than we ought, I think the Light would shine right through us....and if in the dimensions, conscious Light is one of the properties, then let it happen.

Hey man, I really dug your post this time!!!!....so I've got to ask you a question in return....
If Heaven is coming to us OR if we 'go to heaven', but it is already here, too, what political party do you think is going to be 'there'?

As I've said quite a few times on here....."Snap now, and avoid the 'rush'!

That's why music is so fantastic!!...You can manifest the Light into sound!

GfS

P.S...Naw..I'll save it for a little later....

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 11:23 AM

...mansions...

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 11:20 AM

"....I bet you that you can't find a scripture that says that when you die, you go to Heaven.....


....but it DOES say that Heaven is coming to us!

Believe it or not, Gfs, I don't think you are saying anything crazy
there. But I would say that you haven't so much proved anyone's misconception wrong, as indicated a valid "minority" interpretation, or brought out a commonly neglected dimension, of complex and often ambiguous material. In saying this, I'm just talking about the difficulty of establishing one clear picture of what the Bible says is happening, or will happen; whether or not what the Bible says is reliable remains a separate question.

"In my Father's house are many mansion; I go to prepare a place for you, that where I am, you may be also". If that isn't in Heaven, will it be in an area of revitalized earthly desert, perhaps the Death Valley area...or what would you envision?












































































'....I bet you that you can't find a scripture that says that when you die, you go to Heaven.....


....but it DOES say that Heaven is coming to us!

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 13 - 03:27 AM

Suzy Sock Puppet: "I don't know GfS, so far I have failed to recognize you as evil incarnate. That can only mean one thing. I am evil too and just don't realize it yet and one day we will rot in hell together with the rest of Satan's spawn."

Naw...Not a chance....let me let you in on a 'little secret'....you got that 'hell' thing, or concept from the Bible, right?....Well guess what?....I bet you that you can't find a scripture that says that when you die, you go to Heaven.....


....but it DOES say that Heaven is coming to us!

So many misconceptions...so little 'time'!

Cheers Back To You!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 04:48 PM

As far as I am concerned, taking LSD[particularly black market LSD],is similiar to playing russian roulette.yes I did have a bad experience with LSD, Ialso had a very pleasant experience with magic mushroms.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 29 Aug 13 - 04:35 PM

Me too, Blandiver. I mentioned myself being very cautious. I saw a few people I know get so extreme, they never came back. For lack of a better term, they are mentally ill. One happily so, he's a happy fool- the two others not so happy, one in particular. But I gotta believe he was a truly troubled soul to begin with- seeing demons around every corner. His rigid Catholic upbringing seemed to play a part.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 10:40 PM

gnu, Okay, here's my complete post from your post:

"From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:04 AM

Lonesome EJ: "The temptation is to continue to use the drug to achieve deeper revelations, at which point it becomes a crutch,..."

..and who uses crutches????

Lames.
...and so many thing can become crutches...religion, politics, habits, dependencies, co-dependencies, alcohol, materialism,...you name it.

Independent thinking, and true independence, begins when you walk away without a crutch.

BTW, EJ, great post!!!!"


Now tell me what you had a problem with, because there is nothing there that I can tell what you are talking about.

Fair enough?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 04:44 PM

exactly blandiver,
as for jacxk campin in my opinion he consistently talks bullshit on this forum

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 04:41 PM

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:04 AM

Do you REALLY think that by such misdirection you can simply disregard your duty in being a human? Further, do you REALLY think that readers are so stunned as to be deceived by such posts in your defense of an indefensible offence? Your words in the offending are clear and are enshrined forever for all and sundry to read and no amount of further bullshit from you can erase YOUR OWN WORDS.

Clearly, as per some posts in this thread, you need to drop some acid. I don't know anything about acid but I would suggest a LOT of acid. Personally, I would give two shits from Tuesday if you ODd after your repeated transgressions in this forum... of which many remain for all to read including the one I took you to task for and which you wish to redirect readers away from. Have you no shame?

That was a rhetorical question. Anyone who has read your repeated garbage knows that and it's about time you manned up to it.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 02:33 PM

And I've known too many truly beautiful young minds spectacularly fucked up by Acid, Dope and 'shrooms. Kids with real revolutionary potential utterly wasted.

So - more governmental misinformation if you ask me. We lack the cultural / spiritual / mythological infrastructure to normalise hallucinogenic experience. Other cultures respect that - they leave the strong stuff to the experts (Shamans) who are off their heads anyway, but they get the job done.

I once walked down a country lane tripping out my box on Psilocybin on a perfect sunny autumn day, then a donkey started braying at me - instant paranoia! I thought the fecker was laughing at me. I ran back to farm and freaked out for about a month. Every time I heard a donkey braying after that I'd have flashbacks, That was 1983 and even now just the thoughts make me giddy...

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 02:21 PM

I'm very much with Frank Zappa on this one:

    "They were just so full of dope that they were going blindly their own way, not thinking for a moment that the origin of LSD was in the CIA and a lot of them probably don't like to think about that now. By taking LSD they were helping the CIA in one of their favorite experiments. After they got done taking volunteers from the army, they actually made a profit selling it to people on the street, and seeing what actually happened to a civilian population. They got it in the ass so bad from the CIA that they don't even know. So to sit on the outside of that and say it was stupid will not make you any friends in the group of people who really believe in it, and since there were more of them than of me, it sort of set me up in a negative light for all the years to come.

They're a cultural phenomenon, they're an industry, and they're a tool by which the government keeps the kids in check. They also use the same thing to keep the housewives down. Every time you take some dope and you think you're getting some escape from your life, you're just playing right into the government's hand. Every time you use whatever it is that you use, you're registering yourself as a pawn. (...) The minute you start taking those drugs, they got you. I'd rather be free inside of my mind. If you don't have enough money to beat the system, the least you can do is keep your self-respect and know what you think is not chemically induced by a governmental agency."

— Frank Zappa: Outraged Consumer, Circus Raves No. 123, 1975.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 02:11 PM

Prohibition never works well...
We tried it here in the US with the 18th amendment... All that did was create an entire underworld of criminals, lots of profits to be had, lots of bad unintended consequences and lots of dead people and those in jail....

Most of what is commonly believed about Prohibition in the US is urban legend which happens to help the liquor industry. It did reduce alcohol consumption, significantly and permanently; the US has never got back to the consumption levels that preceded it. And it didn't lead to a measurable increase in violent crime:

http://jessnevins.com/blog/?p=89

There were spectacular instances of alcohol-related criminality, but the showbizworthiness of a class of crimes is a matter of reporting, not of what actually happened or how objectively damaging it was. Far more lives were saved by Prohibition than were lost by it. But people dying of liver failure, malnutrition, hypothermia or drunken brawls don't make the national media.

Serious restrictions on alcohol make sense. Serious restrictions on psychedelics don't.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 01:54 PM

This entire thread is based on opinions of the folks posting... Me included...

We really don't have much scientific data on the effects of LSD... Just ramblings...

BTW, I asked a while back if anyone knew who "Claude Jones" was and no one answered so no one gets the prize...

The answer is: Claude Jones was the first person arrested in California for possession of LSD after California made it illegal in the 60s...

Why do I know that???

Well, Claude Jones was the equipment manager of a band aptly named "Claude Jones" which was one mighty fine DC area band in the 60s... I knew all of them and actually booked them to play in Richmond...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Rumncoke
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 01:44 PM

Hang on a minute - if the ones using long term had fewer psychological problems - might that mean that you have to have fewer psychological problems to use long term?

Because if you did have problems - well you might just not be there to be assessed - if you catch my drift.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 28 Aug 13 - 07:39 AM

I don't know GfS, so far I have failed to recognize you as evil incarnate. That can only mean one thing. I am evil too and just don't realize it yet and one day we will rot in hell together with the rest of Satan's spawn. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 11:54 PM

My my, we're getting so sensitive...
THIS is a 'personal attack'????:

"Not at all, gnu...you must have ignored, the post above it where I said:


From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:04 AM

Lonesome EJ: "The temptation is to continue to use the drug to achieve deeper revelations, at which point it becomes a crutch,..."

..and who uses crutches????

Lames.
...and so many thing can become crutches...religion, politics, habits, dependencies, co-dependencies, alcohol, materialism,...you name it.

Independent thinking, and true independence, begins when you walk away without a crutch."

Many people(more than you might be aware of), transfer addictive personalities away from things like alcohol, or substance abuse, and channel that same addictions into other behavioral patterns.
Instead of a knee-jerk re-action, which seems to be 'normal' on here, you might consider what I posted, as a reality that people deal with(or don't deal with), and NOT a personal slam.
In a time where people don't take personal responsibility for their actions, merely pointing something out is often taken as a personal attack....far from it...it is something very REAL to consider.
To some people, turning somebody else onto a 'political nuance' is as ego gratifying, as turning somebody onto their first try at a drug...and drug taking is, more often than not, a 'social activity'.
I guess for those who get high alone, it would be as 'satisfying' as having a political stance, that you don't expound on, to others.
Just pause, and think about it for a moment...it might all come to you, and when or if it does, you might actually appreciate, that someone turned you onto it!....and it wasn't harmful, addictive but rather, added to your understanding or even introspection.

Glad to been of service to you...."


THAT was a personal attack???????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 08:19 PM

Prohibition never works well...

We tried it here in the US with the 18th amendment... All that did was create an entire underworld of criminals, lots of profits to be had, lots of bad unintended consequences and lots of dead people and those in jail....

If we were to level with people about the dangers of various drugs, such as the ones I have pointed out, yet allowed people buy and use these drugs, at least we would be the one's in control...

Guess who is in control now???

"God damned, the pusher man"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 08:12 PM

I agree that GFS's statement was clearly a personal attack. And so is the statement that all his posts are personal attacks. They aren't.

I have very strong negative feelings about drugs. A lot of personal tragedies I've witnessed.

Yet I also agree that continued criminalization is not the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 07:52 PM

The fact that you used the term "need it", G.S., is telling... I tells me that at one time in your life your felt you "needed it"... I never felt I needed it...

I smoke pot on occasion because I enjoy it, not because I need it... Same as when I used to drop acid...

BTW, maybe you were hanging with some messed up people, G.S... My friends didn't want to fly or jump out windows... They, like Suzie, just wanted to enjoy it...

Sounds to me like you didn't enjoy LSD... Sorry...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 06:52 PM

bobert, you can doubt what you like, i took lsd and so did the people that thought they could fly and in fact could not,I was with them, so dont lecture me about it, now please do not tell me about things that i have personal first hand experience of.
and if you still think its so cool to smoke dope, i feel sorry for you i have been there done it many times and I am pleased i do not need to do it any more.
I think it should be legalised.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 02:47 PM

Between the age of about 20-30, I took LSD about 7-8 times, one cautious dose each time, and never had a bad trip.

What impressed me the most about LSD was how the ordinary seemed extraordinary. I remember looking out the window and watching the leaves on the trees quiver in the breeze. It was just sooo cool. One time I spent the evening hanging out with my grandma and another time I just relaxed with my family, watching TV, eating supper etc.

I didn't really have hallucinations (probably because I didn't drop multiple doses) but was just very happy. While at my grandma's house, I watched a scary flick and each time something scary happened, it sent me into peals of laughter. That's an atypical reaction for me.

What worries me about drugs today is that the illegality combined with the emphasis on the money making aspect of the drug trade makes it much more risky. You never know what people are trying to sell you. They even lace marijuana with just about anything these days. You don't know what you are getting. One of my son's friends died from smoking pot laced with formaldehyde.

I'm probably a hypocrite for wanting my son and grandsons to avoid drugs since I had my own fun experimenting when I was younger. I still think it would be better if they did not criminalize drugs because it makes it more attractive to minors and easier to sell drugs with unsafe additives, not to mention fills up jails and prisons with non-violent criminals.

I also wish they would stop feeding kids misinformation (propaganda) because that doesn't help either. Once they figure out that they have been lied to about things like marijuana, they don't believe what they have been told about things like cocaine and heroin.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 02:38 PM

Good Soldier,

I doubt that it was the LSD... People have all kinds of problems and some of them drive Volvos... Does driving a Volvo make some people have problems...

Anecdotal stories are not scientific... I mean, back in the 60s I knew at least 100, maybe 200, folks who took LSD and had no problems as a result of the LSD...

I believe it all comes down to responsible use and I'll be the first to admit that "prohibition" discourages "responsible" use...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 02:30 PM

Sounds good to me (the original post, not the nonsense above).

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: gnu
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 01:26 PM

Eliza... not at all. Your post was fine. It's an opinion. GfS' post was a personal attack, plain and simple, no matter what inane and illogical bullshit GfS spews to attempt to defend such crap. I might point out that it is not only a personal attack but it is not germain to the OP in any way. As froggy has pointed out, many of us are simply tired of such behaviour. I give little credence to anyone who continuously acts in such a manner, attempts to defend their actions with logic so twisted it must screw up their own minds, and doesn't have the balls to admit their mistakes and apologize. A sad and sorry excuse for a human being in my estimation.

GfS... *I* did not ignore any post and I certainly cannot ignore assholes. Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 10:12 AM

I knew 2 people who believed they could fly and ended up in hospital, it is not misinformation but fact, I knew another who suffered from mental illness after taking LSD.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 08:12 AM

Eliza, note that I wasn't referring to you. I might not agree with every word you've ever said, but you come across as a person with entirely different heart and attitude than Gfs.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 07:27 AM

Anyone whoever took LSD probably realizes that "fun and relaxation" are not at the top of the list as far as the effects are concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 04:58 AM

frogprince, I'm afraid I delivered a holier-than-thou rant, and I do apologise, since Bobert admitted he did this when young and doesn't anymore. It's just that as I said before, I've witnessed at first hand the chaos that drug use can (not always I know) bring into already dysfunctional lives. One has to have fun and relax, but IMO drugs are not a route to take.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 12:23 AM

Does that mean I have to have your front????

GfS











P.S. THEN listen up!

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 09:19 PM

Hey, f-prince!!!

Don't get all bent over GfinS... He is who he is... I always expect some GfinS *blasts* and they are like rain on a ducks feathers...

But thanks for havin' my back, f-prince... You be da' man... Even if you is up-side-down that is...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 09:17 PM

On second thought:

On two occasions, approximately 46 and 47 years ago, I consumed alcohol until I was plastered like the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
In retrospect, I don't consider that a good idea.

Now, let's hear the sermon.

I need a good laugh just now.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 09:10 PM

Dear Gfs: Bobert admitted to something irresponsible that he did many years ago, along with clearly saying "don't do that". You, as is your frequent habit, jumped at the opportunity to deliver an extended holier-than-thou rant. Guess what; most of us here are more than tired of the same old same old.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 08:17 PM

So much effort has been made to discredit LSD that that alone means that it must not be all that bad... Or bad at all...

Tell ya' what... I hadn't thought of LSD in years but this thread has me looking thru all my old books for those two tabs of "Mister Natural"...

LOL...

B:~)

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:59 PM

Pedantry of little importance:

1. The original link is to a NEWS REPORTING site. While this site has a fairly good reputation, they're not really any more responsible for validating what they publish than other media. ("Aything for a headline" comes to mind.)

2. The publisher of the report, PLOS ONE, is not a peer reviewed journal. While they serve a useful purpose in bringing ideas to the public, many of their "papers" are closer to "undergraduate essays" than to research reports. ... Can't really tell which this one is. They are helpful in presenting "new ideas" to examine, but not fully trustworthy for "confirming consensus on new facts."

3. The report is that this was a "metastudy" using existing data from older researches, with "new statistics" to reach a different conclusion. We all have our own opinions about "statistics." ... (?)

The metastudy method is so strongly deprecated among serious scientists that they seldom publish those results, except under duress, although they may use a reanalysis to choose what to investigate in their own original research. (Unfortunately, the duress is common enough that we see a lot of such reports. TON of salt - not just a pinch - recommended.)

No conclusions here, in my opinion, although the idea is interesting enough to watch for possible followup.

John

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:45 PM

I know that in Canada, they were successfully treating alcoholism with it!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:43 PM

LSD quiz: Anyone know who "Claude Jones" was???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:40 PM

In his autobiography "Flasback," Tim Leary recounts trying to find a legitimate, socially beneficial use for LSD contrary to the mind control stuff the CIA was focusing on. He knew that mere recreational use to make one feel all peace and love and pretty colors would never gain favor with the government types (indeed, there was legislation afoot to make LSD illegal), so he got the idea and the permission to try it on habitual criminals in a prison somewhere in one of the New England states (Vermont? Mew Hampshire? can't remember...someplace like that).

He selected prisoners for whom the criminal justice system was a revolving door - in and out and in again was all these guys had ever known. This particular prison had high recidivism.

So he conducted scheduled and controlled "therapy sessions" in which the prisoners were given doses of LSD and then they sat around and talked about things, guided by Leary at crucial points when a particular inmate had an "epiphany" or a particularly poignant "insight." Sort of like psychedelic group therapy or a psychedelic counseling session.

Leary recalls being a little uneasy around some of these guys while they were high. Some of them were violent - rapists, murderers, armed robbers - and he wasn't sure how they'd react. Fortunately, there wasn't a single incident that would've ultimately jeopardized the experiment.

After the experiment ended and all the data had been statistically analyzed, Leary found that, compared to a control group, the rate of recidivism for his group of inmates went down significantly. Leary hypothesized that this result was due to the effects of LSD. LSD had shown his experimental group that there were alternative ways of viewing and perceiving life and one's journey through it, and LSD had provided those who partook of it a profound and life-changing experience - it had had such an indelible effect on those inmates that a lot of them decided to do something else besides "a life of crime."

Shortly thereafter, recreational use of LSD was declared illegal and other than its use in studies of a military nature (and perhaps a few clinical studies as it pertained to mental illness), the beneficial uses of LSD were no longer the subject of any serious experimentation (except by individuals doing their own personal "studies").

Surely Leary published his findings and this experiment could be retrieved for review online (through Harvard, maybe?).

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:21 PM

Well, the anti-drug prohibitionists have said and done a lot of crazy things about LSD over the years...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 07:09 PM

Gordon Thomas's book about MK-ULTRA, for one. I've seen it reported in a few places.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 06:08 PM

Interesting. Where did you get that?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 05:55 PM

I knew hundreds of people who took LSD in the 60s and none thought they could fly... That piece of misinformation came from Art Linkletter's mythology about how his daughter took LSD and then jumped out a window.

It also comes from CIA disinformation about the MK-ULTRA program. They disseminated a story that one of their experimental subjects jumped out of a window as a result of taking LSD. In fact his handlers beat him to death and threw him out of it because he was about to do a Bradley Manning.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 05:52 PM

Bobert: "Yo, gn-ze...
All of GfinS's post are personal attacks..."


ALL?????

Methinks you've been hangin' out too much with Don, and whatever he's got, just might be contagious.
before you were just politically block-headed...now your showing signs of being even further delusional...and taking your delusions, a bit too seriously!!!

Re-think it, man..you're blowing it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 05:21 PM

the brilliant Albert Hofmann lived to 102.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 04:36 PM

Yo, gn-ze...

All of GfinS's post are personal attacks...

I mean, that how he earned the "in" GfinS...

Yo, Good Soldier...

I knew hundreds of people who took LSD in the 60s and none thought they could fly... That piece of misinformation came from Art Linkletter's mythology about how his daughter took LSD and then jumped out a window... First, she didn't jump out a window on LSD and...

...second, as I pointed out a while back on this thread: "if you are messed up before LSD then you are going to be messed up after LSD"... Face it, Mr. Linkletter wanted to find something to blame for his daughter's mental problems so LSD became his whipping boy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 03:42 PM

lsd and timothy leary have also been responsible for people believing they could fly, some have been severely injured and some have died as a result, a few others have suffered from schizophrenia as a result of taking LSD. those people who have suffered mental health problems after taking LSD , would strongly disagree with "LSD keeping you sane" ,for them it has been the road to insanity
leary was irresponsible.

Subject: RE: BS: LSD keeps you sane
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 03:13 PM

Not at all, gnu...you must have ignored, the post above it where I said:


From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 12:04 AM

Lonesome EJ: "The temptation is to continue to use the drug to achieve deeper revelations, at which point it becomes a crutch,..."

..and who uses crutches????

Lames.
...and so many thing can become crutches...religion, politics, habits, dependencies, co-dependencies, alcohol, materialism,...you name it.

Independent thinking, and true independence, begins when you walk away without a crutch."

Many people(more than you might be aware of), transfer addictive personalities away from things like alcohol, or substance abuse, and channel that same addictions into other behavioral patterns.
Instead of a knee-jerk re-action, which seems to be 'normal' on here, you might consider what I posted, as a reality that people deal with(or don't deal with), and NOT a personal slam.
In a time where people don't take personal responsibility for their actions, merely pointing something out is often taken as a personal attack....far from it...it is something very REAL to consider.
To some people, turning somebody else onto a 'political nuance' is as ego gratifying, as turning somebody onto their first try at a drug...and drug taking is, more often than not, a 'social activity'.
I guess for those who get high alone, it would be as 'satisfying' as having a political stance, that you don't expound on, to others.
Just pause, and think about it for a moment...it might all come to you, and when or if it does, you might actually appreciate, that someone turned you onto it!....and it wasn't harmful, addictive but rather, added to your understanding or even introspection.

Glad to been of service to you....

GfS