BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 01:55 PM

The idea that it is somehow OK to set out to kill non-combatants on the the side is hardly restricted to suicide bombers and their fans. After all Lieutenant Calley was regarded as a kind of hero by quite a fair number of his compatriots. There was even a song saying what a great guy he was which sold a lot of copies.

And the doctrine of nuclear deterrence has always been founded on a readiness to carry out suicide bombing on an enormous scale.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 12:35 PM

Yes, that would appear to be the basic rationale, wouldn't it? After all, until they are all dead...how can one feel "safe"?

It's exactly the message that Hitler gave the Germans regarding Jews and Communists...

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 12:18 PM

...in fact, a lie like that one can have only one possible indended purpose. To make people believe that the only solution to the "problem" is to kill all members of the group in question.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 12:16 PM

And if only 1/100 of one percent would become bombers themselves, there are 240,000 potentials out there at any given time. That worries me. The real numbers are probably much higher.

The fact that you don't see a hell of a lot more suicide bombings by Muslims than you already do shows this from you to be the Big Lie that it is.

(Big Lie = a lie that is intended to promote hatred toward a group of people, and to make people feel less hesitant to kill members of the group in question.)

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 09:34 AM

Indeed. But in the same fashion, Muslim communities have good reason to be worried about the many millions of people who support the aggressive policies of the Bush administration, which feels it has the right to launch pre-emptive wars (meaning, to attack other people first just because you feel like it...that's what Hitler, Mussolini, and the Japanese did, remember?).

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: GUEST,spirit of st. louis
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 09:13 AM

Let's say that only ONE percent of Moslems approve of the recent suicide bombings. If there are 2.4 billion Moslems worldwide, that means that 24 million approve.

And if only 1/100 of one percent would become bombers themselves, there are 240,000 potentials out there at any given time. That worries me. The real numbers are probably much higher.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 08:18 AM

Definitions are primarily descriptive rather than prescriptive in English dictuionarfies. They are intended to indicate what meanings a word actually has in actual use, rather than trying to adjust that meaning to meet some ideas about what the word ought to mean. If a particular current meaning is offensive or controversial, or reflects prejudiced ways of thinking indicating that fact is of course part of the definition of that word.
......................
The exact wording of questions asked in polls, and the context in which they are asked is crucial.

It would be quite possible to think that the term "martyr" was an appropriate one tomuse for the suicide bombers of July 7th, and yet be wholly opposed to what they did. It depends on how you define "martyr".

I would suspect that a good number of those who answered the question that way disapproved strongly of the bombing and of the thinking that lay behind it.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 06:35 AM

they did not kill because they were muslims. and they did not kill for islam.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Big Phil
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 04:14 AM

Just accept that we all have different views and opinions. ????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Jul 06 - 03:45 AM

I suspect that skipy wouldn't have a problem if someone said that the Serb death squads, or IRA or loyalist bombers, or the Spanish Inquisition, weren't true Christians. Or perhaps that Stalin wasn't a true Communist.

Guest 06:44 might possibly say a parallel thing about killers of innocent people (including Muslims).

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: skipy
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 07:22 PM

Guest of 06.44 identify & justify or die.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 06:59 PM

You cannot cross the globe and tell cultures of thousands of years to live in a certain manner, simple as that.

Read today that America will not put up with Korea holding weapons that could knock out thousands of lives. It said the guy in power over there is not to be trusted. To me that could also be said about Mr. Bush.

Sickening to watch tanks rolling over houses tonight on the news in the West Bank. Yes I understand a young soldier was taken hostage, but why wrecks home of people who had no part in it ? I saw two couples in their 70's crying as their homes were levelled.

In any war it's the weak that suffer first.

America cannot elect it's self the police force of the world.

Okay, I will go back to rattling on about Irish issues, sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: skipy
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 06:51 PM

Cut the crap, wake up & smell the coffee.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 06:44 PM

the bombers were not muslims.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 05:16 PM

Good points on your part also, Carol. I understand your line of reasoning perfectly.

As long as the US government and the Israeli government (and various Muslim religious zealots as well) cynically use inflammatory rhetoric to whip up people against each other over differences in culture and religion...then the type of virulent prejudice and destructive behaviour we are seeing these days will continue.

It is governments and their wealthy backers and controllers who have created these divisions, not ordinary people. Ordinary people would rather just be left alone in peace for the most part, if the great financial and political powers that be were willing to leave them alone.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 03:43 PM

Good points for the most part, LH, but something needs to be done. People who, deep down in their hearts, don't consider themselves to be racists, and who don't want to think of themselves as racists, are nevertheless practing the exact same thing as racism only toward a group they don't consider a "race". They don't see the practice itself as being bad, they only see being put in the category called "racist" as being bad.

Even when this kind of prejudice and discrimination is being practiced against a group people don't consider to be a separate "race", it is still nevertheless the same thing as racism, and I am finding that the only way to get people to understand this is to give it the same name.

There was a time when the word "prejudice" had the same effect, but that seems to no longer be the case. So I will continue to use the word "racism" to apply to all kinds of prejudice and discrimination toward groups of people, and I will continue to defend this practice if I am challenged about it, as I have done in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 02:50 PM

Yes, we both agree on the main point.

Carol can choose to use whatever terminology she chooses to use. My posts regarding this subject are intended to explain why I choose not to use a term that has no basis in fact. I'm sure that when the term was first used, it wasn't known that science disproved the theory of separate races. I wonder how many dictionaries have been published since that discovery? I wonder how they will attempt to define it. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM

Yes, Carol, it's a word of extreme negative labelling. It's a word intended to intimidate and brand those it is directed at. That's why I'm getting tired of it being so frequently used in the public dialogue.

It's like calling someone a heretic during the days of the Spanish Inquisition. It immediately puts that person in the very nasty spot of trying to prove they aren't a heretic...which is not too damned easy, I can tell you... ;-) For instance, I think it is probably true that there is some degree of racial prejudice hiding in the breast of about 99.9% of the human race at any given time! Does that mean they are all "racists"? Where does "racism" begin and where does it end in that case? I think the epithet "racist" could be thrown at almost any person, if one chose to, on the basis of some preference or reaction in that person to someone or something, some idle remark they made, some choice they made, but how useful or appropriate is that? It's getting way out of hand, that's my opinion.

Look, I don't think you and Dianavan really have anything of substance to be arguing about here. You both agree that Muslims are being unfairly labelled and discriminated against by a lot of people in the media and elsewhere these days, and that this is a problem that should be addressed. Why have a big falling out over differing interpretations of the appicability of the word "racism" to the problem? What good will it do?

Why not just agree to both agree on the main point...that Muslims need to be treated as fairly as other people are. That would be more productive, would it not?

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 01:21 PM

if you want to continue to use a word to describe a false concept, go ahead, it gives the Supremacists credibility

No it doesn't. In your mind maybe it does, but not in practice. When I challenged the originator of this thread by calling him/her "racist", s/he wasn't concerned with whether or not the word "racist" gives supremacists (can't imagine why you would capitalize that word) credibility, but whether or not s/he could be accused of racism because of practicing discrimination toward Muslims.

In fact, in every thread in which discussions like this one come up, none of the other words like "discrimination", "prejudice", "bigotry", etc, have any effect. But when the word "racism" comes up, the first response is almost always an attempt on the part of the person in question to distance him or herself from the charge of being a racist. The word racist does not give supremacists credibility. But it does dissuade people from engaging in prejudicial and discriminatory practices toward groups of people.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 12:22 PM

Carol - I'm not saying that racist cannot be defined. Of course it can but since the foundation of the word is a lie, anyone who uses it is immediately discredited and thought to be ignorant of the facts. In other words, you either know its a false construct or you don't.

You also said, "But to deny only Muslims the ability to use protective language while all other groups have such language as protection has the effect of being discriminatory."

Thats bullshit. I don't deny anyone (Muslim or otherwise) the ability to use protective language. I do, however, wonder if Muslims want non-Muslims to determine whether or not those who discriminate against them are racist, anti-Islamist, prejudice or discriminatory. Have you ever heard a Muslim refer to their religion as a race? Have you ever heard a Muslim complain about racism?

You can use whatever language you like but whenever you attempt to speak for a group of people in an attempt to protect them, its best to know if the language you are using to describe the action is acceptable to them.

Like I said, I would not use an inaccurate word but if you want to continue to use a word to describe a false concept, go ahead, it gives the Supremacists credibility.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: skipy
Date: 06 Jul 06 - 10:42 AM

I an anti-semolina
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:01 PM

That's what arguments are like. If they go on long enough, eventually everyone ends up contradicting something they themselves said at an earlier point in the same argument... ;-) I've seen it a million times. When you point it out, it really pisses them off too. (But we all do it.)

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 09:58 PM

My definition of a racist is this: An ignorant human being that believes the White 'race' is superior to all others. Heil Hitler! To continue the use of the word without any scientific proof of 'races' is to perpetuate the big lie.

LOL

So you agree that people of the white "race" can be racists. If you didn't, you wouldn't call them "racists" but instead, you would call them "white supremacists". Since you agree that the term "racist" can be used in the absence of any category called "race", you therefore are being inconsistant if you say it cannot be applied to any other groups of people.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 09:54 PM

Since nobody can even agree on whether or not there is anything, intrinsically speaking, that we can call "race" (there isn't... it is a concept that was invented by the human mind), then the use of the word as defined by the dictionary, the place that tells us how words are used, is as legitimate as any other. More legitimate, in fact. The word "race", in the absence of having any intrinsic meaning, means precisely what its use would indicate.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 09:01 PM

pdq - I came up with that 'twaddle' from Carol's dictionary although I now realize it was probably not referring to humans. I disagree with your statement, "Still, a person's 'race' is entirely controlled by genetic makeup. Period." That's the point, pdq. We all have a common mother and scientifically speaking there are no races.

I also agree with LH when he says anti-Islamic would be a better term to refer to discrimination against Muslims. Muslims come in all colours, shapes and sizes and are dispersed throughout the World. They are not a specific group of people except that they share a common religion. They don't even share a common language. You can't use the term racism to explain the discrimination that exists against them. If so, we would be describing Protestants and Catholics as a race. Thats ridiculous.

LH is also right when he says that those that discrimate against Jews are not racists, they are anti-semites. Men who discriminate against women are sexists but women can also be sexists.

My question is this: If a person is discriminated against because they are 'poor', is there a term to describe those who engage in "poor bashing"? For that matter, what do you call "gay bashers"? According to many of you, they should also be called racists.

My definition of a racist is this: An ignorant human being that believes the White 'race' is superior to all others. Heil Hitler! To continue the use of the word without any scientific proof of 'races' is to perpetuate the big lie.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 08:52 PM

Weren't they right near Loquacia?

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 08:40 PM

Don't worry. The land of Semantia was absorbed by Pedantia is the year 1203. There are no more Semantics.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 08:25 PM

This therad has become an exercise in semantics. I freely admit to being anti-semantic.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 08:23 PM

LOL! Omigod. You are a lunatic, Peace. I think you may be verging on Anti-Islamism. If so, I am going to have to reconsider our friendship...and warn the goat to stay away from you entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 08:09 PM

Wanted: One suicide bomber. Must be willing to work one evening a week. No overtime. Pay commensurate with experience.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:57 PM

Uh-huh. Right. Yadda yadda. ;-)

Look, I know what the real problem is here. It's a *specialness* gap, that's what it is! Some people feel that other people's suffering is given more specialness than theirs is, and they are so right...because some people in this world get *special* words to describe their suffering under prejudice, while other people don't!

And that's not fair!

For example: When women are discriminated against for being female, they get to call it "sexism". That's a special word. Men might get to be discriminated against for being men sometimes too...but they don't have a special word for that. You can't call it sexism. You can't call it anything really. That's unfair.

Another example: When most people get discriminated against on the basis of race they get to call it racism...but one group, the Jews, get a special word all their own to call it: anti-semitism.

Only the Jews get their own super-special word for racism directed against them. Unfair!

No wonder the Muslims are upset.

Here's what we need to do: We need a new word, pronto. A special word. We need a special word that covers all situations where people are abusive toward Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, all the people who follow Islam or come from an Islamic culture or group.

Ahem!

I propose: *** Anti-Islamism *** and its accompanying adjective *** Anti-Islamic ***

If these special words are made available to Muslims everywhere so they can defend their dignity and their right to live the same way Jews have been doing for a long time now, then this unfair specialness gap will be eliminated at last.

Let's do it! Henceforth, any unfair or abusive attack upon Muslims will be termed "Anti-Islamism" and the Anti-Islamic bastards responsible for it will be hounded and condemned and hounded AGAIN, just like people accused of Anti-Semitism are hounded...until they don't dare open their big mouths on the subject EVER again!!!!!!

Heh! End of story.

p.s.   (Anyone who reads the entirety of the above proposition and fails to grasp the satirical and ironic intentions behind it, and completely misses what I am trying to say, is probably a "complete and utter tosser" a dunderhead and a prat...and they can stew in their own juice as far as I'm concerned.)

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:50 PM

dianavan's contention that the "sub" in 'subspecies' is an attempt to portray one portion of a 'species' as 'inferior' is just plain weird. Where does she come up with such twaddle?

When the term 'race' is used by a biologist it means what Ebbie posted: "An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies."

Since control of such terms concerning people were put under the control of anthropologists and not biologists, a politcally correct approach has taken over. Still, a person's 'race' is entirely controlled by genetic makeup. Period.

The correct word for the concept expressed on this thread (and many others) is 'ethnic group', which can be determined by race, language, culture, country-of-origin, etc.,etc.,etc...

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:12 PM

That is pedantry carried to ridiculous lengths. When groups are discriminated against, regardless of by who, it is racism. People understand the term and know what it means.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 07:09 PM

In that context, dianavan, "subspecies" is not in reference to human beings - at least not any still in existance, since there are currently no recognized subspecies of humans in existance today. In the context of that dictionary definition, the term refers to plants and non-human animals.

But to deny only Muslims the ability to use protective language while all other groups have such language as protection has the effect of being discriminatory. So until you can come up with a way to provide such protection to Muslims, you are helping to promote discrimination against Muslims when you try to discourage the use of the term "racism" to refer to discrimination against Muslims.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:16 PM

For example . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 06:14 PM

"Members of the dominant group can also be of any colour, any religion and any cultural background. It would be a stereotype to say they were all the same."


Yes. And either sex, too.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:36 PM

Exactly my point, Dave. The religion of a bomber is not the key factor, although it IS used to whip up people into fighting and killing.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:32 PM

I could have made a pun about profits and prophets but aren't you glad I didn't:-)

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 05:31 PM

Terry, you are right. 13% is too high a number. I won't point out what already has been about the why's and wherefores but I must take you up on the point about it not being about religion.

I don't think anyone would deny that there is a seeming abundance of Moslem bombers - But only 15 years ago the ones being reported on, around here anyway, were all Christian. From both sides of the divide in Northern Ireland. This spate of bombings is about as religious as those were. I don't think the 'troops' know better. I believe it is the leaders, on both sides of this war, that are using religion to wind up the perpetrators and invoke righteous indignation in the west.

I would agree that to say it is nothing to do with religion was probably a bit of an exaguration but it is certainly more to do with who holds power that who's prophet is right!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:47 PM

Yes, according to that definition, you "might easily refer to the 'English race' or to the 'Canadian race' or the 'Amish race,'..." but you'll never hear me using those terms.

"a subspecies"? When was this dictionary published?

Yes, Carol, in a court of law it might be useful but I think other terms would be more accurate.

In everyday discourse it serves only to perpetuate the myth of separate 'races' or 'subspecies'. This assumes that one group of people are superior to another which is a lie. In terms of power, there is definitely a dominate group of people but it is not defined by 'race'. Those people are usually white, male, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. It does not mean they are a sub-species or a separate 'race'. Members of the dominant group can also be of any colour, any religion and any cultural background. It would be a stereotype to say they were all the same.

It does mean that in terms of social justice, there is a dominant group who has to become more inclusive. We can help foment change by denying the existence of separate 'races' and recognizing the many factors that contribute to lack of opportunity and poverty.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:24 PM

Here is what the online dictionary says about race:

"A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
"A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
"A genealogical line; a lineage.
Humans considered as a group.
"Biology.
"An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
"A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
"A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine."

According to that, one might easily refer to the 'English race' or to the 'Canadian race' or the 'Amish race', inexact as it may be.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:11 PM

Who wants social justice? How many of you give it lip service and how many of you actively work for it?

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:07 PM

A socially just society would not emphasize differences or perpetuate division. The goal would be to treat all people as human beings.

A worthy goal, but we're not there yet. And one of the reasons so many people don't see anything wrong with practicing the kind of prejudice and discrimination toward Muslims that we see all over the place in the Western part of the world today, including this thread, is because people don't perceive any social stigma attached to having such attitudes. People who wouldn't dream of holding such attitudes towards people of a different color or towards Jews, see absolutely nothing wrong with holding such attitudes towards Muslims. Until our society attaches a social stigma to such attitudes when displayed towards Muslims, the problem will continue to get worse rather than better. It appears to be the only way to fight these things.

It worked for the Civil Rights Movement in the US and in South Africa. It worked in helping to change attitudes towards Jews all over the world. It will work to help bring about a change in attitudes towards Muslims as well.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:00 PM

Carol - I still think you need a new dictionary.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 02:58 PM

I disagree, LH.

The words "racism" and "anti-Semitism" have served as very useful tools in the efforts to bring about greater social justice in many parts of the world. Yes, it is possible to misuse them, but not having the use of them at all would be far more counterproductive.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 02:58 PM

Yes, we all want social justice but I don't think it can be achieved by using the tools that were used against us to hammer the other side. The only way to overcome is to rise above. A socially just society would not emphasize differences or perpetuate division. The goal would be to treat all people as human beings.

Just because equality does not exist, does that mean we should stop striving to attain equality? There is not much that I can do as an individual but I do have the ability to change my language. You can use whatever terms of reference you want.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 02:54 PM

I agree with you 100% on this one, Dianavan. I think that "racism", these days, is a word that is being used far too often by far too many people and not usually for any good reason. And I think the same about the word "anti-semitism".

Call prejudice what it is: prejudice. Don't stigmatize other people by calling them by a specially nasty word that paints them or their behaviour as utterly evil and beyond the pale. It doesn't help establish a dialogue, it just leads to a lot of screaming and finger-pointing.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 02:46 PM

Salaam too.

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 02:44 PM

Why not use the words stereotype and prejudice instead of labelling someone or something as 'racist'.

Because these words carry very little social stigma, and are therefore pretty useless for the purpose of bringing about conditinos of social justice. And that is what we all want... right?

Subject: RE: BS: 1 in 10 Muslims think bombers were martyrs
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Jul 06 - 02:41 PM

Funny thing. Yesterday, our son and his wife came over for a cookout. Both of our sons by my wife's first marriage are Muslim. They often come to hear my Gospel group perform, or to hear their sister, who is a Baptist Minister preach. We support our Muslim sons as well, by attending banquets and programs they present. A month or so ago, we went to a wonderful banquet honoring women who have worked hard to make the community a better place. There were six recipients of the award, more than half of them white non-muslims. Yesterday our son brought over the front page of the Muslim paper in this area, and there in prominent placement was a photograph of my wife and I sitting at a table reserved by the Amman (not sure of the spelling, and I don't feel like going upstairs.

Statistics are great. They can be manipulated to support almost any opinion. They may even be accurate within a particular area of a country (or even a whole country.) It's when they become blanket statements that they become ignorant.

Shalom!

Jerry