BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 06:28 PM

Yeah, plenty of other "stand your ground" states that say it's okay to murder someone if you ***say***, "I felt threatened"...

So much for being civilized nation...

I mean, these laws are nothing but right wing NRA sponsored laws... They didn't just arrive in these states by accident... Big $$$ is pushing these stupid laws because they sell guns... Lots of guns...

Follow the $$$...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 05:58 PM

Everywhere except in Florida Dan!

Unfortunately, no.

There are a whole bunch of other "stand your ground" asshole states.

Florida, although possibly more demented than most, is not alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 05:51 PM

Still should have exited, Keith, even if badly distorted...

What's the muzzle velocity... This is simple physics here... If the story is that the bullet couldn't travel 10 inches thru a chest cavity then I not only suspect a police cover-up but a coroners cover-up, as well...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 05:48 PM

I which case, there would be a great deal of damage to the victim's body. There would be no doubt as to the location of the bullet.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 05:16 PM

Hollow point bullet.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 05:03 PM

When a friend of mine and I were out "plinking" one afternoon (wooded area with a good backstop), I fired a 9 mm. bullet into a 5 ½ inch tree trunk from about eight feet out, with my Smith & Wesson Model 39 9 mm. automatic, and the bullet went clear through the tree trunk, leaving a gaping hole on the far side of the tree.

Where the bullet wound up, I have no idea, except that it couldn't go far because of the bluff-side about thirty feet behind the tree.

One of the problems with a 9 mm. is that it generally goes right through the person being fired at and winds up God knows where!

Bad news in a crowded area!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 04:27 PM

If, for example, the stalker is not a vigilante, but a mugger!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 04:21 PM

""Well the long and short. Anyone carrying a weapon is obligated to avoid an situation that would require its use.""

Everywhere except in Florida Dan!

""Stand your Gound?""

And it is significant, that it was in Florida that this man thought he had a right to ignore advice and deliberately put himself in confrontation.

Trayvon Martin had no such choice. He went on an innocent mission to buy sweets and a drink, and was stalked by a man who was larger than him.

Would you turn your back to walk away in those circumstances? I would not, and I live in the UK where guns are very rare, but a piece of lead pipe can do almost as much damage.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 02:44 PM

What??? A 9mm fired from i inch did not exit???

Ol'ster??? Is that possible??? It sure doesn't sound possible... I mean, a 9 mm packs one shit load of power to not go thru a 150 pound kid... In other words??? I don't believe that... Heck, I shot a 20 pound muskrat with .22 "short" that went thru the thickest part of his body... No, I don't/can't believe that to be true...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 01:58 PM

Real cops would have found where the bullet went after going thru Martin... If it was in the ground, guess what??? Zimmerman was on top... If not, Martin was on top...

The bullet did not exit.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Red Queen
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 01:39 PM

You're both right. And hiding the truth from Trayvon's parents for three days tells you everything you need to know about the Sanford Police Dept.- that is, if you want to call it a police department.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 01:24 PM

Yeah, Greg... Yer right... Most Southerners never get to the 300 level courses because they can't pass the 001 remedial courses, let alone the 100 and 200 level prerequisites...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 01:19 PM

No, that's 'The South 101', Bobert. 'The South 386' is a graduate level course.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 01:08 PM

Ya' know what folks???

Real cops would have found where the bullet went after going thru Martin... If it was in the ground, guess what??? Zimmerman was on top... If not, Martin was on top...

However, it seems that real cops have not been involved in this case and the phoney baloney ones wished that this would just go away and still do...

Normal...

Welcome to the South, Part 386...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Red Queen
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 01:00 PM

I hate autocorrect.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Red Queen
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 12:57 PM

GfS, Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon out of hatred. He did it out if cowardice. You don't shoot an unarmed man unless you are a scumbag. George Zimmerman is a scumbag. The delusions of grandeur that he had running around other there, fancying himself some sort of hero? He is a repugnant piece of shit. He caused the entire. If somebody was obviously tailing me, not sure how I could "misread" that.

Justice for Trayvon. And off with that motherfucker's head.

Red Queen has spoken.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 12:18 PM

You bet, Keith, blah blah blah. Its a great deal more complicated than your sound bites.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 12:10 PM

For example, the witness who, said at the time, that when she came out of her house, after the shot, Zimmerman was astride Martin.

She has miraculously vanished from the proceedings, while all effort seems to be aimed at proving the opposite.

Zimmerman acknowledged that he got over Martin after the shot, so this is not in contention.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 12:09 PM

Well, Dan, its the old story - cowboy with no training who thinks he's a law encforcement officer. Recipe for disaster every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 12:03 PM

Well the long and short. Anyone carrying a weapon is obligated to avoid an situation that would require its use. First lesson taught in gun training. You use it, you will be charged with murder till they sort it out. He was carrying, he needed to stay in the car and let the cops handle it. Just cause you are carrying ya can't walk around a drug neighborhood in an inner city with twenties sticking out of your pocket so you can use your weapon. You are duty bound to avoid that stuff. It is legal to carry a firearm in a bar, but no one I know that would go into a bar with a weapon. Ya just don't do it. That thing is to be used only to save a life, your own or others in a situation you cannot avoid

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 08:17 AM

No, I s'pose ya can't. ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 03:30 AM

Greg F, can I help it that your guys couldn't get it right? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 13 - 02:51 AM

'This is what a lot of us Southerns thought was over here...'

It is, and you can keep it.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 07:44 PM

I hope that after this sham of a trial that this court house burns to the ground...

This is what a lot of us Southerns thought was over here...

Guess not...

Emmett Till...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:05 PM

"At night, all cats are grey."
         —Alexandre Dumas, in The Three Musketeers

For all of the whooping and yelling and accusations and insults and speculations, the one think that sticks out in my mind is that this whole tragic incident would not have happened if Zimmerman had obeyed the police and stayed in his car as he was told to do until they got there, rather than taking it upon himself to play vigilante.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 04:17 PM

He seemed to think

Yeah, PeeDee he "Seemed to think"- who gives a shit what his delusions were?

He was a fake wannabee law enforcement officer with no training and no qualifications and would likely have failed the psych evaluation for any police force in the country.

And he placed HIMSELF in trouble, ignoring what the professionals told him to do.

Sympathy? get real, bud.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 04:09 PM

Hi, Ebbie :

"Beware of the night, child. All cats are black in the dark."
JEAN GENET, The Blacks


"In the dark, all cats are black."
― John Cage


"In the deep night of metaphysics, all cats look black."
― Terry Eagleton, Walter Benjamin or Towards a Revolutionary Criticism


Plenty more where these came from.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 02:28 PM

...from just after the shooting last year:

Frank Taaffe, a neighbor, told CNN that Zimmerman "had a passion for the safety of our neighborhood and he demonstrated to the rest of us that one person could make a difference. And he was an average guy, just like me." In a separate interview, Mr. Taaffe told the Washington Post, "George is a good dude. He cares about this community. He's not a vigilante out looking for trouble."


...from recent court testimony:

The first police officer and the first paramedic to respond to the shooting also testified Friday. Smith testified that when he saw Zimmerman after the shooting, the neighborhood watch volunteer's backside was covered in grass and wetter than his front side, bolstering defense attorneys' contention that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.

As he walked to the squad car after he had been handcuffed, Zimmerman told the officer that "he was yelling for help and nobody would come help him" Smith said.



{I had no sympathy for Zim until I read that statement. He seemed to think he was doing an important job a watch captain, but nobody came to help him when he was in trouble. I sense some real pain here.}

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 02:01 PM

Sorry, Greg F: "And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement." Ben Franklin

I would go further and affirm that a *White* cat in the night appears grey, never *Black*.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 01:36 PM

""I have a question: This all happened in the dark. Was the area exceptionally well lit? Unless it was, it would be hard to see *red* as a color. As they say, all cats are gray in the night.""

There's a great deal about this case which doesn't bear examination Ebbie.

For example, the witness who, said at the time, that when she came out of her house, after the shot, Zimmerman was astride Martin.

She has miraculously vanished from the proceedings, while all effort seems to be aimed at proving the opposite.

If I were a member of Martin's family, I would be petitioning the court to fire and replace the prosecution team, who are apparently going through the motions and losing the case.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 01:34 PM

My recollection of the aphorism, Ebbie, is that at night, all cats are black.

Your mileage may differ.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 01:14 PM

I have a question: This all happened in the dark. Was the area exceptionally well lit? Unless it was, it would be hard to see *red* as a color. As they say, all cats are gray in the night.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 12:42 PM

{shortened because all that needs to be said was said}

According to whom, PeeDee? The Knights Of The White Camelia?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 12:18 PM

Hey, 'Guest'..you miss the point....'Guest' alone, could be a bazillion different people. It helps to have a continuity....and if there is to be an exchange, it help to know that you're talking to the same person. That way someone doesn't just post, as 'Guest' and that post, whether it be inane or wonderful, is part of an ongoing exchange, instead of random, fragmented and a pot shot out of the meandering chaos.

In regards to the case.....

..and at that, my first post on this thread, I said I wasn't even going to into this thread. It seems pointless to 'argue' media 'facts'(as reported) against media inspired emotional hysteria.

My point was, and still is, let the evidence unfold..let it go its course. The whole thing is sad, tragic...and overblown with media attention. It has become divisive, and unproductive. There are numerous crimes committed across racial lines, BOTH ways. To single out one, and get a hard-on about it, is really quite pointless.
The whole thing was needlessly jumped into, and recklessly done, on both people's parts.....and ridiculously silly to ennoble the quasi-macho bravado of either one of them. Neither one is a hero, neither one, needed to do what they did, and quite frankly, BOTH of them were pretty fucking stupid!...and the universe doesn't cut stupidity any slack....it moves immediately right in picks up the slack, ....as witness this screwed up event, and the melodramatic, showtime trial...in which everybody is 'making book' on which way it may fall.
Sad and tragic....but not worth ANOTHER act of violence of any sort, to its outcome.
Some may disagree, and want to join a torch bearing crowd demanding 'THEIR' version of justice, either way....such persons are complete idiotic fools!

Good Night, Gracie!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 11:25 AM

Neighbor Jonathan Good testifies about Martin-Zimmerman fight


By Mike Schneider and Kyle Hightower | The Associated Press

SANFORD, Fla. — Two neighbors and a police officer gave accounts Friday in George Zimmerman's murder trial that seemed to bolster the neighborhood watch volunteer's contention that he was on his back and being straddled by Trayvon Martin during a confrontation with the teen.

Neighbor Jonathan Good said it appeared the unarmed teen was straddling Zimmerman during their confrontation, while another neighbor, Jonathan Manalo, said Zimmerman seemed credible when he said immediately after the fight that he had shot Martin in self-defense. Officer Tim Smith said on the witness stand that Zimmerman's backside was covered in grass and wetter than his front side.

All three were called as prosecution witnesses on the fifth day of testimony.

Good, who had perhaps the best view of the fight of any witness, said he did not see anyone's head being slammed into the concrete sidewalk, which Zimmerman has said Martin did to him. Good initially testified that it appeared "there were strikes being thrown, punches being thrown," but during detailed questioning he said he saw only "downward" arm movements being made.

Zimmerman has claimed that he fatally shot 17-year-old Martin last year in self-defense as the Miami-area teen was banging his head into the concrete sidewalk behind the townhomes in a gated community.

But under prosecution questioning, Jonathan Good said he never saw anyone being attacked that way during the fight between Zimmerman and Martin.

"I couldn't see that," Good said moments later while being cross-examined.

Good, the second person to take the witness stand Friday, said he heard a noise behind his townhome in February 2012, and he saw what looked like a tussle when he stepped out onto his patio to see what was happening.

He said he yelled, "What's going on? Stop it."

Good testified he saw a person in black clothing on top of another person with "white or red" clothing. He said he couldn't see faces but it looked like the person on the bottom had lighter skin. Martin was black and was wearing a dark hoodie. Zimmerman identifies as Hispanic and was wearing a red jacket.

"It looked like there were strikes being thrown, punches being thrown," Good said.

Cross-examination

Later, under cross-examination, he said that it looked like the person on top was straddling the person on bottom in a mixed-martial arts move known as "ground and pound." When defense attorney Mark O'Mara asked him if the person on top was Martin, Good said, "Correct, that's what it looked like."

Good also said the person on the bottom yelled for help.

Good was in the middle of dialing 911 inside his townhome when he heard a gunshot, he said.

Zimmerman, 29, could get life in prison if convicted of second-degree murder. Zimmerman followed Martin in his truck and called a police dispatch number before he and the teen got into a fight.

Zimmerman has denied the confrontation had anything to do with race, as Martin's family and their supporters have claimed.

Manalo, whose wife had testified earlier in the week, was the first neighbor to step outside and see what happened with his flashlight after he heard a gunshot. He took cellphone photos of a bloodied Zimmerman and Martin's body, and those photos were shown to jurors on Friday. Manalo also described Martin's hands as being under his body.

Manalo said Zimmerman didn't appear shocked and acted calmly. After police officers arrived and handcuffed Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer asked Manalo to call his wife and tell her what happened.

Manalo started to tell Zimmerman's wife that her husband had been involved in a shooting and was being questioned by police when "he cut me off and said, 'Just tell her I shot someone,"' Manalo said.

Under cross-examination, Manalo said when he asked Zimmerman what happened, the neighborhood watch volunteer told him, "I was defending myself and I shot him."

"From what you could tell at that moment, that seemed completely true?" asked defense attorney Don West.

"Yes," Manalo said.

Other testimonies

The first police officer and the first paramedic to respond to the shooting also testified Friday. Smith testified that when he saw Zimmerman after the shooting, the neighborhood watch volunteer's backside was covered in grass and wetter than his front side, bolstering defense attorneys' contention that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.

As he walked to the squad car after he had been handcuffed, Zimmerman told the officer that "he was yelling for help and nobody would come help him," Smith said.


{shortened because all that needs to be said was said}

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest Pot and Kettle Metaphor
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 11:02 AM

Perhaps this belongs in the old "delicious irony" thread

Date: 04 Jul 13 - 11:54 PM

I think a perennial Guest just accused a Guest of hiding behind "Guest".

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 10:57 AM

Follow @msnbc_us...


Varying accounts of what happened between Zimmerman, 28, and Martin, 17, inside the gated community in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26 have trickled out to the public via state prosecutors, lawyers and relatives. But on Thursday morning, Zimmerman's defense team released a trove of information gathered in the initial days of the investigation that includes a never-heard police interview with Zimmerman and a video re-enactment of the shooting.

The one hour, 11-minute videotaped police interview was conducted almost exactly 24 hours after the single gunshot fired by Zimmerman pierced Martin's chest. Police used the interview to perform a computerized voice stress analysis, which detects psychological stress based on voice patterns, on Zimmerman.

Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, had called police to report a suspicious person when he spotted Martin. In the videotape, he walked officials through what happened next as he approached Martin.

"I reached for my pocket, and I was looking for my phone, and he just punched me in the nose. And I fell backwards, to the side, somehow I ended up on my back. He ended up on top of me and he just kept punching my face and my head," Zimmerman said, adding that he was "screaming for help" as Martin allegedly pummeled him.

"He told me, 'Shut the f*** up.' I kept yelling for help," Zimmerman told police.

Zimmerman said Martin "took my head and slammed it into the concrete several times."

As they fought, Zimmerman said, his jacket and shirt rose up, revealing his gun. Martin then said, "You're going to die tonight," according to Zimmerman.


{shortened because that is all you need, really}

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: bobad
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 10:28 AM

You tell him, Sabrina Fulton:

"Mark O'Mara, the criminal defense attorney representing former neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, on Friday urged the mother of slain teen Trayvon Martin to admit that her son may have "caused his own death."

O'Mara began his cross-examination of Sabrina Fulton by apologizing for her loss.

"You need to ask a question," Fulton replied.

The defense attorney then tried to throw cold water on Fulton's assertion that it was her son's voice screaming on a 911 call the night he was shot and killed by Zimmerman.

"If it was your son, in fact, screaming as you testified, that would suggest that it was Mr. Zimmerman's fault that led to his death," O'Mara observed. "And if it was not your son screaming, if it was, in fact, George Zimmerman then you would have to accept the probability that it was Trayvon Martin that caused his own death, correct?"

"I don't understand your question," Fulton said. "I heard my son screaming."

"You certainly had to hope that was your son screaming even before you heard it, correct?" O'Mara continued.

"I didn't hope for anything," Fulton insisted. "I just simply listened to the tape."

"I don't meant to put you through this any more than necessary, but you certainly would hope your son, Trayvon Martin, did nothing that could have led to his own death, correct?" O'Mara tried again.

"What I hope for is that this wouldn't have ever happened and he would still be here," Fulton shot back. "That's my hope.""

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 09:41 AM

the whole of Sanford seems to be rooting for acquittal

'Course they are! That black boy had no business being in a white neighborhood in the first place. Damned uppity!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 08:49 AM

Ditto...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:16 AM

Just a thought Keith!

Trayvon Martin wasn't simply a sub group, or a black.

He was a seventeen year old schoolboy, slight of build and doing nothing wrong.

He had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, according to the constitution of a country, many of whose people would regard him as a second class citizen.

Whatever, nothing that he could do to a stronger, heavier man with his bare hands would justify a death penalty, let alone an unauthorised execution. There are holes in Zimmerman's story you could drive an eighteen wheeler through.

How do you think justice for his death can be achieved?....Can they give him back his life?

Justice for Trayvon is not possible!

Zimmerman was out on the street with a loaded gun (against neighbourhood watch policy) and looking for a confrontation. That tells me all that I need to know about his motives.

Testimony as to Zimmerman's fine qualities doesn't really impress, given that the whole of Sanford seems to be rooting for acquittal

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 06:07 AM

Perhaps we could hear your reasons for disagreeing with my comment about Martin's right, feeling threatened, to invoke "Stand your ground".

Your "comment" was this question,
"Tell me then why you believe that Florida's "Stand your ground" Law wouldn't apply to him and why you don't see his confronting the stalker as self defence under that law?"

I do not believe that.
Everyone has or should have equal rights under the law.

As I said, I just do not know enough about these issues in US and I quit.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 05:57 AM

""Don, you can not know.
That is all emotion and prejudice for one subgroup against another.
Your verdict may well be correct, but you can not know.""

I can apply basic logic, pay heed to what is happening, and see which side has the more credible.

Pity you can't! But that's your problem.

What you call all emotion for one sub group (how you always manage to dehumanise those groups), is in fact a perfectly logical process.

Perhaps we could hear your reasons for disagreeing with my comment about Martin's right, feeling threatened, to invoke "Stand your ground".

Of course, somebody else would have to invoke it for him following his 9mm body piercing.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jul 13 - 02:11 AM

Don, you can not know.
That is all emotion and prejudice for one subgroup against another.
Your verdict may well be correct, but you can not know.

I work with troubled and violent teenagers.
Our little centre is plagued with sweet wrappers and drink cans, so I know candy is not evidence of innocence.
I also know some kids who could make mincemeat of a slightly overweight 29 years old, so the weight difference is not evidence of guilt either.

Bobert, I regret joining this and admit I am out of my depth here.
Zimmerman and Martin are just names to me, and I have no emotional involvement.
I though some dispassionate objectivity might be welcomed.
I do not get your North South thing at all and it is not the case that if I am not for one side I must be against it.

I do hope that justice is done here.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 11:54 PM

Bobert: "Frankly, I'm gertting a little sick and tired of these people's lack of caring about much more than partisan BS and not about justice..."

WHAT??????!!!! That coming from YOU????? You've had this guy ready to be hung from the moment the story broke!

And 'Guest' whatshisname....You got data to back up your claim?..Democrats, in the South were VERY pro-segregationist! Was Wallace? Was Byrd?..among others...Jeez!...Nice to hide behind 'Guest', huh?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:23 PM

Bobert, I'm afraid this SOB is walking, no matter how much I agree with your feelings and your opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:37 PM

Seems that a couple folks here are all to ready to just let this thing pass... Just like the Greensboro massacre... Just like the Jim Crow lynchings... They just joke around as if this case doesn't mean squat to them... It's like a sporting event to them...

Well, think about someone you love and think how you'd feel if someone murdered that person and people were making a hero out of the murderer and then the justice system was just going thru the motions and not much more...

Frankly, I'm gertting a little sick and tired of these people's lack of caring about much more than partisan BS and not about justice...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 07:41 PM

""I do not understand those of you who somehow do know that Zim is guilty.
That is just prejudice.""

One 204lb man of stocky build, carrying a 9mm automatic, versus a 156lb teenager armed with a bag of candy.

Teenager gets a 9mm slug and dies, while bigger man has a couple of superficial cuts to the head, which he would not have had if he'd left the job to the PROPER authorities.

Why would we think he was a gung ho thug, detertmined to score a hit?

Go on, you tell us why you think that unreasonable!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 07:30 PM

""It seems that there are those in here that WANT this to be about a hatred filled murder.
You sad pieces of shit!""

Goofus has no idea where the faeces is being produced. Another one who thinks black = bad!

Who presents the case for a dead black child? NOBODY!

Not the prosecution, not the defence, and certainly not the law enforcers of Sanford, Fla, who just want the case to go away.

Moral: If you are black, stay indoors after dark, or the neighbourhood watch will kill you!

And they'll get away with it!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 07:07 PM

Your history is wrong GfS.
Many Democrats left to become Republicans in the 1950s and 1960s because they opposed the Civil Rights movement.
Bobert is talking about 1979. Yes, the "Reagan Democrats" also switched over in 1980, but the Democrats who were "vastly pro-segregationist" were already Republicans in 1979.
The South is not slow-learning. Many feel that they have nothing to learn.