BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 05:36 PM

Bobert: "In 1979....."

That was 34 fucking years ago!!..You remember?..when Byrd was part of the KKK and Democrat senator!!!...and Democrats were vastly PRO- segregationist!....and that was SUPPOSED to be 16 MORE years after Democrat Gov. Wallace was blocking integration!!..Are you trying to tell me that the South is a bunch of slow learning idiots???....Oh yeah, I forgot, your from the South...never mind. You've MORE than answered that one already!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 03:14 PM

Yo, GfinS...

I can see that you haven't spent too much time in the South...

Maybe you need a quick refresher...

In 1979 there was a planned, legal and non-violent civil rights demonstration in Greensboro, NC...

Redneck Nation (klan + Nazis) decided to set up an ambush and shot into the demonstration killing 5 demonstrators and wounding others... How many of rednecks were charged???

Give up???

Zero...

Don's 10:51am post tells it like it is... I know... I worked was working pretty much exclusively with black people when that occurred... I know how black people feel here in the South... Eugene Robinson, who grew up in South Carolina, has written about it... It ain't some figment of someone's imagination...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 01:19 PM

Right Greg. We are not trying the case, just discussing aspects of it.

I know BB and Keith would like to pretend that there is no racial aspect,

It is race that makes this a cause celebre instead of just another shooting.
I am not pretending it is not an issue, just saying it should not be for us.
though how they know that Zimmerman didn't profile Martin as Black = likely drug dealer or user looking to burgle a house is a bit of a mystery
I do not know any such thing.
I do not understand those of you who somehow do know that Zim is guilty.
That is just prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 12:13 PM

Maybe Greg, but we are better than that.

Who are "we" Keith?

"We" aren't trying the case. Theoretical is one thing, reality is another.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 12:01 PM

It seems that there are those in here that WANT this to be about a hatred filled murder.
You sad pieces of shit!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:58 AM

Just to save you guys from having to think, the answer to my own question is:

The Florida "Stand your ground law" is for the protection of Redneck Nation against those dangerous and uppity........

Well, you know the rest.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:51 AM

I know BB and Keith would like to pretend that there is no racial aspect, though how they know that Zimmerman didn't profile Martin as Black = likely drug dealer or user looking to burgle a house is a bit of a mystery. He knew Martin was black and described him to police as such.

However, there is another aspect, which no doubt they would prefer not to consider.

Martin grew up black in the Southern USA where, in the eyes of many of its denizens, black people are sub human thugs, pimps and drug dealers.

Finding himself, during an innocent trip to the shop, being stalked by what must have looked like a white man to him, who followed him in a car and then got out to continue following, he must have felt threatened.

Tell me then why you believe that Florida's "Stand your ground" Law wouldn't apply to him and why you don't see his confronting the stalker as self defence under that law?

Zimmerman made himself the aggressor by stalking Martin and, by Florida's own law, Martin was not required to retreat, especially as he was unarmed, and three and a half stone lighter than Zimmerman.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:50 AM

Maybe Greg, but we are better than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:22 AM

Bobert, Keith just doesn't get it, does he?

In Florida, its impossible to "take race out of it".

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:18 AM

GONE batshit, Don? No worse, really, than his usual spew of horseshit.

But don't be too hard on him; he' a real campaigner for justice, you know. He worked tirelessly to have the conviction of John Demjanjuk overturned, and is currently on the board of The Michael Karkoc Defense Fund.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:16 AM

Okay, Keith...

Leave out the word "black" if you like... That's fine with me... My argument is still valid...

The defense is going to be built around Zimmerman's story, Keith... Zimmerman has already shown that he is not only a liar but a scheming lair, as well...

Remember when he was jailed and all the gun-nuts were sending in large sums of money for his legal defense??? Zimmerman told the judge he didn't have any money for his defense while using juvenilistic code talk on the jail phone telling his wife to hide the money... It was well over $100,000...

He has since been caught in other out-right lies... One about Martin grabbing his gun and another about having no knowledge about the Florida statutes after taking a class on them???

So, the defense is trying to shift the blame for the murder on the victim...

Don T. is correct in his taking apart the Zimmerman portion of the story about Zimmerman having to return to his vehicle to make a phone call... That is also a very suspect account of the way things could have happened that defies logic...

And yes, Keith, the Florida laws are ridiculous... There is an account where a guy was awakened to the sound of someone outside his house, looked out the window and saw someone messing with his truck, grabbed a machete, chased the guy down the block and killed him with the machete... The guy claimed "stand-your-ground" and no charges were brougt...

Insane laws pushed by the NRA...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:15 AM

""Apart from the conflicting evidence, they will also need to assess the position of the deceased on a scale from violent thug to gentle saint.
They will need evidence of his past to do that.""

They aren't allowed to bring up Zimmerman's past record in evidence until and unless he is convicted.

You believe that they should be able to blacken a dead teenager, who can't answer for himself?

Typical!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 10:05 AM

""No idea how true any of these details are - but the "Liberal Agenda" is to outlaw private firearm ownership- How better than more riots? It will be "Temporary, for our own good".

Got to make sure the "Peeple" are under control, and do what they are told.


And riots would distract from all of Obama's other problems.

Just look at how 1968 got Johnson off the heat for Vietnam.""

Now Beardie has lost it and gone batshit.

The trial of some gung ho hotshot killer is another Vietnam war.

Take your meds BB.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 09:57 AM

""Sanford Police Chief Cecil Smith and other city officials are worried that the outcome of the George Zimmerman trial could spark "violence" and have crafted a "secret law enforcement" plan to deal with potential social disorder.................

..........""Our worst fear is that we will have people from outside of the community coming in and stirring up….violence in the community," Smith told CNN's David Mattingly.""

Preparing the ground already!!

They could always set "innocent" George on 'em!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 09:53 AM

self-defense statutes was justified... That includes walking up to Zimmerman and punching Zimmerman in the face...

If that is true in your country, I am amazed.

you say it's okay for Zimmerman to use the "self defense" argument

It is Bobert. Not just me saying it.

but not okay for that same statute to apply to an unarmed black kid being stalked by a larger man with a gun.
Try to take race out of it
It might be OK, but I doubt it would stand up whatever the colour.

You might well be right about Z's guilt, but you can not know.
Even the court has not heard both cases yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 09:41 AM

""Zimmerman said he lost sight of Martin, got out of his car to call police and was walking back to his vehicle when the 17-year-old attacked him.""

Something in his vehicle requires that he walk away from it before making a phone call?

Even when he has lost sight of a man who he regards as a likely criminal, having profiled him as Hoodie = Crook!

Does it sound likely? NO!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 09:36 AM

""More important, both statements by Dr. Roa are opinions and should not be allowed to stand, just as the cop's opinion that "Zimmerman is telling the truth" was struck from the record by the judge.

Heck, if Zimmerman had already received "life-threatening injuries", he would not have been able to defend himself.""

Bleeding from head wounds is almost always particularly copious and small cuts can look far worse than they are.

The good Dr is an expert, and her opinion would be treated as expert by any court, but of course Peedee knows better.

What are your medical qualifications Peedee?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 09:33 AM

When Zimmerman got out of his car - not in question - to continue stalking Martin - also not in question - anything that Martin did, under Florida's stand-your-ground and self-defense statutes was justified... That includes walking up to Zimmerman and punching Zimmerman in the face...

The law says that if you feel threatened you have a right to defend yourself...

This is the exact same statute that Zimmerman's attorney - the "self defense" argument - in defending Zimmerman...

This is where your thinking is flawed, Keith... On one hand you say it's okay for Zimmerman to use the "self defense" argument but not okay for that same statute to apply to an unarmed black kid being stalked by a larger man with a gun...

If you can't get that then I might have to add you to the list of people here who are incapable of rational thought...

Reconsider, dude... You are digging a hole trying to get out of it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 09:10 AM

My thinking is not flawed.
If the deceased attacked the defendant, there is a defence of self-defence.
The prosecution must prove that he did not, and the jury must believe it.

If the defendant was known to be a violent thug, an attack is more believable.
If he was a gentle saint, it would not be.

Obviously it is not proof, but it is evidence that can be taken into account.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 09:03 AM

""Just a perfect example of never ever ever ever get yourself in any situation that you have to defend yourself, both wrong .. either one could have run away.

You fight, you defend when attacked but only and I mean only if there are no options. With all of my training in hand to hand or with firearms or sharp edged weapons. I am not afraid to run .. hell that is my first and foremost option. Defend only when absolutely necessary, was any of this necessary ... NO""

And if black youngster, Trayvon Martin, had turned and run from Zimmerman, the only difference would likely have been a bullet in his back, rather than his chest.

Some Choice he had! Dead either way!

In my book an unarmed innocent, guilty only of walking while black, has been murdered, because any action he took to prevent Zimmerman from shooting him is arguably self defence.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:48 AM

Thank you, Don T... I guess that was written by the usual suspect whose posting I no longer bother to read...

Sorry, Keith, but whether Martin was a thug or a saint is not relevant here... Zimmerman didn't know who the hell Treyvon Martin was... Plus, being a thug does not carry the death sentence as long as the thug doesn't commit murder...

Was Martin a murderer???

Your position is the same as a defense attorney asking a rape victim about her sexual past as if that justified the rape...

Your thinking is flawed here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:45 AM

""In ANY case, if one reverses the races of the individuals involved, and comes to a different conclusion, then one is a racist. Period. Too many here have demonstrated that that is what they are,""

Still obfuscation and disingenuous avoidance of answering a very pertinent question.

If the neighbourhood watchman had been black (pretty unlikely in Sanford) and the dead man been white, do YOU believe the authorities would have been as reluctant to act as they were in this case?

A simple YES! or NO! is all that's required to answer this simple question.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:38 AM

""When asked by Bobert, I supplied a scenario where the phone TEXT messages might be significant evidence. He never bothered to comment on that. Why do you insist on talking about only the photos? Is your argument so weak that you must resort to using that sort of tactic?""

Because the defence, who were definitely aware of the photos when they complained, have complained of no other items from the phone. No such evidence as your hypothetical nonsense would have escaped complaint, had any such existed.

Remember that the complaints were made after the substance was known to the defence. They could hardly complain before they knew there was something to complain about.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 01:53 AM


This entire story is being concocted by a ***proven*** liar who is trying to save his own ass...

Very likely.
The jury will be aware that the guilty always lie at their trial anyway, and will put little or no weight on his assertions.

It is not at all unusual for a killer to plea self defence.
Guilty or not, the jury must acquit unless convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the deceased did not attack the accused.

Apart from the conflicting evidence, they will also need to assess the position of the deceased on a scale from violent thug to gentle saint.
They will need evidence of his past to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:18 PM

point well taken bobster I don't know you are right and he may have

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:02 PM

Either way it goes, rioting or any other form of civil unrest that may come of this, is just as fucked up as the act itself!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:37 PM

How do you know you he didn't, Ol'ster...

This entire story is being concocted by a ***proven*** liar who is trying to save his own ass...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:31 PM

I don't know Manslaughter would have been easier to prove. 2nd degree murder much harder to prove. Don't get me wrong I think myself he is guilty as sin but like I said Florida, that f'd up state ... I bet he walks away and I also bet there will be riots again from all those who don't like the verdict. Fucked up world we live in anymore .. I didn't like it when OJ walked either but I didn't want to set anything on fire because of it. We see this a lot sadly only a couple of people don't like a verdict then it is fun and games from a mass of humanity. Kinda like when the home town team wins something .. for some damn reason people look for any reason to riot. I mean good people who wouldn't think of doing that are jumping on cars or rushing out on the field to tear up the stadium .. someone has to explain that crowd dynamic to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:26 PM

I'm not "all worked up", GfinS... I saw OJ get away with murder... I know what the deal is here...

I'm just calling the ballgame as I see it...

Zimmerman will get his no matter the outcome of this case... Karma will fuck him up for what he has done...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:23 PM

yup but Martin should have taken off running away when he knew he was being followed. Zimmerman should have stayed in the car. My point I think is still valid, Macho behavior and who has the biggest dick thing. and now one dead and the others life ruined even if he walks or is found guilty it is over for him. Sad but a good lesson for others on what not to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:16 PM

Well, if that is the case, I'm sure he could get convicted on the charge of lying. Your scenario has WAY too many skips and blank spots...so if I were you, I wouldn't get all worked up about it based on your 'analysis'.

As I noted before, this is a case of young guys, misreading each other, and the circumstances. Why Zimmerman didn't stay in his truck, is as flimsy as Martin not calling 911....had either one of those things happened...this thread wouldn't be here today!

..and then you'd still be waiting for another incident to play the apologetic for.
This really is overblown by the media..and also he's being tried in the media, instead of the courts....and ALL the wannabe armchair lawyers and wannabe political activists are having a field day, getting their legal briefs from T.V. anchormen and all the hype....well almost all of the wannabe activists...Firth has wisely abstained!
...as far as I'm concerned, let the courts handle it....the prosecutors, in my opinion, fucked up when they charged him for first degree, instead of a lower charge....now proving first degree, is WAY harder with the evidence that the have shown, SO FAR! Manslaughter, they had a far better chance with..first degree...mmm..not so sure.
Stupid fuckers should have stayed in his car, and/or Martin should have dialed 911. You ever wonder if Martin talking to his chick might have said, "Fuckin' honky followin' me, here, you listen, I'm goin' to take his fuckin' honky ass out!"......maybe it's a good thing they withheld it and left something like that out!
Now don't 'soil' your panties..it was only a 'what if' supposition.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 07:40 PM

Who knows, GfinS... The only story we have is from a guy who has already been caught lying about other stuff... Zimmerman has no credibility here...

Do you have any money???

No... A big fat lie...

Do you have knowledge of Florida's stand your ground laws???

No... Another big fat lie...

Bottom line here???

The fact's haven't changed... Zimmerman stalks Martin... Zimmerman calls police... Police tell him to stay in his vehicle and that real cops are on the way... Zimmerman gets out of car and approaches Martin with a gun... Martin gets murdered by Zimmerman...

Everything else really doesn't much matter... That ***is*** the case...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 06:00 PM

Bruce, I found out about Katrina from the NRA, stay away from infowars. Alex Jones, while presenting certain facts, is framing them in the most provocative way possible, inciting unrest. Infowars is creating a nice hotspot for NSA surveillance. Alex Jones is a government shill.

I only support revolutionaries who preach non-violence and don't go on about the second amendment. Our forefathers could never have imagined the state of weapons technology today. Your government has you so outgunned, you're going to need to find another way to protest the mechanisms of what I like to refer to as the "State Apparatus." I think that's what Edward Snowden had in mind but it seems to have backfired somewhat.

Civil disobedience and peaceful protest are still time honored methods of making your point- unless of course you're still waiting for your "change" from Obama. The guy's a bust in that department. If I was a pastor in Sanford, I would refuse to be enlisted by the Sanford police to quell civil unrest- not after the way they protected George Zimmerman and disregarded Trayvon's family. Instead, I would tend to my own flock and invoke Dr. King in hopes that in my community, things would not go on that reinforce the worst stereotypes of racists. I would develop my own secret plan. My secret plan would go into effect if Zimmerman walked.

I would organize a peaceful protest of the verdict and fail to apply for a permit. You're not supposed to have to get special permission to exercise a right. Then face down on the ground with hoodies up. Right in the middle of a non-designated "free speech zone" like say, all along Main St. from one end of town to the other. But you'd have to stay down from say like noon to 3. That's plenty long enough to lay face down on the ground. From what I've heard from peaceful protesters, that's where the specially trained riot police want you anyway (On the ground!). Why not save them the trouble of putting you there? Better visual to make the point anyway. The way I see it, assembling and dispersing would be the tricky part cuz you have to stand up for that. Otherwise, my secret plan is solid.

Shhh...Secret plan. Let it be said that we took the verdict lying down :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 05:58 PM

Bobert: "What you are missing here, Keith, is that the stuff on Martin's phone has been made public -.."

Ya' know, Martin seem to know he was being followed, right?...and was bugged about it, right?...bad enough that he turned around and confronted Zimmerman, right? ..and all the while, he's talking to his girl friend, right?...OK..I think we could all agree on that. the question would then go to, Do you think Trayvon really felt in jeopardy? Right? Some say he did..some say not...well, if I was being followed by a guy who had a gun, and I knew it..and I felt threatened by it...and had a cell phone, I'd be calling 911....wouldn't you???

Right!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 05:12 PM

What you are missing here, Keith, is that the stuff on Martin's phone has been made public - by Zimmerman's attorney - which tends to poison the jury pool... That is wrong and the judge should have issued a gag order on both the defense and the prosecution...

This is what bad justice looks like...

If the defense had taken the material to the judge - in his chamber - in the first place for a ruling on whether or not it was related to the case then I'd have no problem what so ever...

Basic law... Not brain surgery here...

Martin's civil rights have been trampled here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:12 PM

Bobert.
whatever was on Martin's phone - unless it implicated that he knew Zimmerman and/or planned on hurting Zimmerman - is not evidence...

If it is not, the defence will not be able to use it, so why withhold it?

Richard Bridge, who is also an attorney, says it isn't evidence...
Richard Bridge may be an attorney, but he does not know what it is, so how can he state that?

But again, Keith... Why is anything that Martin did prior to being murdered relevant to the case???

The jury have to decide if M attacked Z.
They have to make a judgement on how he might behave in that situation.
His past behaviour is relevant.
Sorry, but it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:03 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/03/justice/zimmerman-trial-updates/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:01 PM

Paregoric, Beardy, Paregoric's the thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:57 PM

Pastors aim to keep peace at Zimmerman trial
By Mark I. Pinsky, special to CNN

Sanford, Florida (CNN) – As opening arguments begin, courtroom seats are at a premium at the trial of George Zimmerman, charged with second degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager.

But in an unusual arrangement, four seats in the second row, just steps from the jury box, have been assigned to a group called "Sanford Pastors Connecting."

The multi-racial ministerial association has pledged to bear witness to the high-profile proceedings during the trial and to keep the peace afterward.

All of the clergy in the courtroom project have agreed to support the jury's verdict in the racially-charged case, which sparked large rallies and marches led by civil rights figures like the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

As needed, the pastors will report courtroom events to crowds expected to gather outside the courthouse, as well as to their congregations, and have agreed to head off inflammatory rumors.

"Regardless of what the verdict is, we can avoid the violence," said the Rev. Robert K. Gregory Jr., of the Good News Jail & Prison Ministry in Sanford. "If we work together, trust can be built."

Zimmerman, a member of the Neighborhood Watch in his gated community, is accused of stalking and fatally shooting Martin, who was staying with his father, on February 26, 2012.

The defense claims that Martin, returning from a convenience store, turned on Zimmerman, who then fired in self-defense.

The Zimmerman trial: What you need to know

Two dozen media spaces on the courtroom's polished wooden seats have been assigned by lottery, with an equal amount set aside for the general public. Another twelve spots in the rectangular chamber are reserved for the Zimmerman and Martin families.

The pastoral rotation is the idea of the U.S. Department of Justice's Community Relations Service. A Seminole County Sheriff's inspector, who is also an ordained minister, handles the scheduling. Among the Christian clergy who have signed up, there are evangelical and mainline congregations; tiny, urban parishes and suburban megachurches.

"We're looking at providing leadership, to comfort people through the word of God and prayer," said the Rev. Sharon Patterson, of Getting Your House in Order Ministries, a small African-American congregation.

"We want our presence to encourage them to understand that as long as God is in control, everything will work out all right," the pastor said.

Patterson brings a particular past to her courtroom witnessing. She once aspired to be a lawyer herself, spending summers when she was first teaching public school, and had no air conditioning at home, going from trial to trial.

While most Sanford-area African-American congregations rallied around the Martin family and their call for justice immediately following the shooting, some predominately white churches and clergy were divided.

The Rev. Alan Brumback, pastor of Sanford's Central Baptist Church, was one of the first – and few – local white clergy to join the predominately black marches and demonstrations in the wake of the Martin shooting.

However, Brumback, whose congregation is multi-racial, said he would not be a part of the courtroom program.

"I am calling my church to pray for our city and to share the only news that can bring reconciliation," he said, "the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is my only agenda."

Live blog: Zimmerman trial begins

Whatever it is, the verdict will be God's will, said the Rev. Lowman J. Oliver III of St. Paul Missionary Baptist Church in Sanford.

"We pray that the outcome will be just and fair to all parties," he said. "How will it look? I'm not able to answer that. Our roles are as peacemakers. It's more important that we send a message that we sustain the peace."

However, Oliver said, peaceful acceptance of a verdict does not mean people will have to agree with it. They can certainly have "a righteous response," as long as it is nonviolent.

"There is a history of division in this community, and there is a history involving violence against black youth" that must be addressed, said the Rev. Joel Hunter, of Northland Church in Longwood, Florida. A prominent evangelical, Hunter is also a close confidant of President Obama's.

After a long, tedious day of sitting together during jury selection, Hunter, Oliver and Gregory were finishing each other's sentences.

Laughing, they admitted that they were unused to sitting still and silent in unpadded pews for so long – while others did the talking.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pastors-aim-to-keep-peace-at-zimmerman-trial/

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:47 PM

Greggie,

You and Bobert are the ones engaged in shit-spreading- It seems to be your true area of expertise. You must take pride in being so talented.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:46 PM

No idea how true any of these details are

Of COURSE you're not, Beardy, but nonetheless you still willingly and enthusiastically smear this horesehit all over the place with abandon.

As expected.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:42 PM

Greggie,


s\So you think that CNN is not a good enough source, when you don't agree with it???



A CNN report shows Sanford police going door to door in an attempt to calm residents about possible unrest in response to the Zimmerman verdict.
"Our worst fear is that we will have people from outside of the community coming in and stirring up….violence in the community," Smith told CNN's David Mattingly.
Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett echoes Smith's concerns, warning that just one person intent on violence could spark wider disorder and "a provocation of violence".
City Manager Norton Bonaparte is similarly on edge, fearing a Rodney King-style riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty.
"I'm saying that's a scenario that's certainly a possibility," said Bonaparte, adding that plans had been made through law enforcement but that he would not go into detail on the nature of what they were.
Police Chief Cecil Smith was similarly evasive when asked if SWAT teams or "special personnel" were on standby to respond to disorder.
"As far as the particulars of the plans, we're not releasing that," Smith told CNN.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:30 PM

No idea how true any of these details are - but the "Liberal Agenda" is to outlaw private firearm ownership- How better than more riots? It will be "Temporary, for our own good".

Got to make sure the "Peeple" are under control, and do what they are told.


And riots would distract from all of Obama's other problems.

Just look at how 1968 got Johnson off the heat for Vietnam.

Of course, the entire population, minorities included, lost a lot, but since when have people with a "Cause" ever worried about the impact of heir manipulations? Dead black teenagers only matter when they can be used for political purposes, or this administration would have done far more in minority communities than it has.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:20 PM

Just a little sample of the reliability and rationality of Infowars (Alex Jones).

Absolutely bat shit crazy and obnoxious on the BBC June 9, 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc8DEpM4-6A

click

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:13 PM

I had a feeling that some 'unrest' might occur, but I hadn't heard of all this other stuff, Bruce. Do y9ou think the government, in concert with the corporate media is fanning this(with the help of our resident 'fans') to instigate unrest..and using the case to spark it?
Just a question.....and I hope the answer is 'No'....nonetheless, I'm sure there are political idiots out there who would want it to go viral!
Mayne, even in here..God Forbid!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:11 PM

Well, they should worry because if Zimmerman walks, gun confiscation will probably occur just as it did during Katrina. That is, whether violence erupts or not, as one of the "pre-emptive" (where you are penalized for what you might do rather than what you do) measures our government is so fond of these days. And once confiscated, they won't get them back.

The police should have arrested and charged Zimmerman with at least manslaughter and Trayvon's parents should have been notified immediately. Basic things. A lot of this is on the Sanford police IMO. It's the ultimate irony that they will now provide a secret remedy for an outrageous situation that they themselves helped to create.

At the end of the day, I'm glad I live in an area where what George Zimmerman did wouldn't fly. People around here do not get rewarded for disregarding instructions from law enforcement and dispatchers are considered representatives of their departments at any given time- a little common sense. Having a law like Stand Your Ground is akin to deputizing all gun owners. Let's turn State St. into the Wild West. Sure. Why not? Like it's not enough of a mess with three rowdy bars in close proximity.

GfS, it really does look like they're throwing the fight. Do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that George Zimmerman's father was a magistrate in the Virginia court system. Think of what a valuable resource that is in the real world, in terms of connections, and more importantly legal knowledge and advice. I don't think that book he wrote made any sense except to a racist. It's a hoot though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_DBEmPjkac&sns=em

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:06 PM

No, I don't. Nor does anyone else who has followed your posting history.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:42 PM

"This is beneath even your usual standard of horseshit."

You mean I am approaching your standards, Greggie boy?????

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:40 PM

INFOWARS, Beardie? WEith Alex Jones, world-famous conspiracy theorist and general all-around lunatic?

This is beneath even your usual standard of horseshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:19 PM

Sanford Police Chief Cecil Smith and other city officials are worried that the outcome of the George Zimmerman trial could spark "violence" and have crafted a "secret law enforcement" plan to deal with potential social disorder.

A CNN report shows Sanford police going door to door in an attempt to calm residents about possible unrest in response to the Zimmerman verdict.
"Our worst fear is that we will have people from outside of the community coming in and stirring up….violence in the community," Smith told CNN's David Mattingly.
Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett echoes Smith's concerns, warning that just one person intent on violence could spark wider disorder and "a provocation of violence".
City Manager Norton Bonaparte is similarly on edge, fearing a Rodney King-style riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty.
"I'm saying that's a scenario that's certainly a possibility," said Bonaparte, adding that plans had been made through law enforcement but that he would not go into detail on the nature of what they were.
Police Chief Cecil Smith was similarly evasive when asked if SWAT teams or "special personnel" were on standby to respond to disorder.
"As far as the particulars of the plans, we're not releasing that," Smith told CNN.
Authorities have also enlisted the help of local pastors who are acting as "observers" in the Zimmerman trial and will then report back to their congregation.
The involvement of pastors is interesting in light of a program first reported by Infowars back in 2006 under which the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was training pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.
As we reported earlier today, scores of Twitter users have threatened to riot and loot if George Zimmerman is acquitted.
Other prominent voices have also warned of potential civil unrest, including former Chicago police officer Paul Huebl, who said that he fully expects "organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades" if Zimmerman walks.
With police already going door to door to calm Sanford residents in anticipation of unrest, some are worried that social disorder could be used as a pretext for gun confiscation in a similar vein to how Hurricane Katrina was used as a justification to disarm residents of New Orleans.


http://www.infowars.com/sanford-police-chief-fears-violence-in-response-to-zimmerman-verdict/