BS: attempt mass murder Christmas

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 06:10 PM

Maybe he was too much or a moron, or too poorly trained by his moronic al qeada trainers, to pull this off... I mean, let's get real... 3 months worth of daily training and the guy can't do somethin' as simple as mixing apoxy...

Beam me up, Scotty... The right wing has us all convinced that al qeada are all Menza material...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 05:47 PM

It should have Carol.
Maybe he sqeezed too soon and did not penetrate the plastic holding the main charge.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:59 PM

See, this is where we are getting terribly bogged down... I mean, we give way too much credit to al qeada... Checked the toilets, eh??? What exactly does that mean??? Does the crew check the holding tanks??? Doubtful... Is there some kinda camera or xray machine checkin' out the stuff in the holding tanks??? Doubtful... Does the crew check under the sink??? How about in the compartment where the extra toilet paper is kept??? Or the towels??? I mean, let's get real here... If I can think of a way to assemble and leave a bomb in, what, a couple minues then al qeada must be a bunch of dummies...

Here's how dumb al qeada is... I mean, they are fixated on airplanes... What is that all about??? I can come up with a dozen homegrown ways to inflict terror on the population of the US without using airplanes.... I even listed sevceral ideas once and was warned that I might be givin' al qeada some ideas... Is that a joke, 'er what??? Face it, al qeada are not only fixated but they are also retarded...

Yet here we are with all this technology polaying a dumbass game of connect-the-dots... Which dots???

(You know, Boberdz... ***The*** dots...)

Oh, those dots...

No, I'm beginning to think that we have lowered our own intellegence down to the level of the retarded al qeada... I mean, in this infomation age we have more dots that can be connected... Might of fact, if you just take the 550,000 people on the *dot list* and then you mix in all the various variables then it's not a matter of connecting the dots because there are so many that all you have is a black screen from them... So consider the sumabichin' dots allready connected...

No, forget the dots... We are going to implode our entire treasutry and resources trying to connect them all and still be no safer than if there were no dots at all...

Ya'll want to stop al qeada??? Get some fresh thinkin' that ain't got nuthin' to do with dots... Get the heck outta Iraq... Push Isreal into making *the deal* with the Palestinians... Stop building stuff that depends on oil... Quit thinking like colonializers... Kill all the tea-baggers because they are really pissing off all of our minorities, including our Islamic citizens... No, don't kill them... That would be bad... Just tell them that this is America and if they don't like it to leave... Don't let the door hit ya' on the way out, Billy Bob...

I mean, what a joke... What, spend a trillion $$$ to make airplanes safe??? Then what, al qeada wakes up one mornin' and thinks, we'll we'll just blow up subways... Or bridges... Or... Or...

I mean, let's get real here and ignore the blow hard righties who just love war... Screw them... Didn't they get enough last century??? Their turn oughtta be up by now...

Fir sure...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:44 PM

Why wouldn't the hydrogen peroxide also create an explosion when injected into the powder along with the flames from the drops?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:35 PM

Not released yet Carol.
Maybe his syringe contained concentrated hydrogen peroxide.
If a few drops got on his trousers/pants, they would have ignited with a fierce high temperature flame.
That fits the stories told by passengers.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:10 PM

Does anyone know why this guy's device failed to go off the way it was supposed to?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:06 PM

200 times over.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 04:05 PM

Cabin staff check the toilets before landing.
Can a chemistry major make a timing device that will pass a metal detector and not trigger toilet smoke detector?
You would make a crap terrorist Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 03:29 PM

I knew how to set time delayed fuses in high school with cigarettes... That's what I am saying here... The guys is smart enough to smuggle the explosives on baord but not a time delay igniter... I mean, any college chemistry major could make one with a wrist watch or wind up clock... The point is that if we are scurrying around like scared mice from these dummies then that says about as much about us as it says about them...

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 12:58 PM

He had to wait until the descent over Detroit to maximise death on the ground.
He would have to be back in his seat.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 11:18 AM

That's about it, Roboz... I mean, what a dumbass terrorist... I mean, he could have just gone in the bathroom, dumped the explosives in the sink and then the igniter and been done with the entire thing... But no??? This sumabich has to got back to his seat, cover himself up with a blanket and dump the explosives on his dick???

Me thinks that we really are making too much of al qeada in Yemen if this was how they are trainin' up their martyrs...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 10 - 08:00 AM

"Anybody notice that in the US, this is always referred to as having happened on Christmas, while the BBC and others say December 25th?"

Well, the BBC wouldn't want to be harangued by the PC-Loonies for using terms which might 'offend' non-Christians, would they? :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 10 - 04:45 PM

I mean, in 50 years this kid opens his American history book and there is a chapter entitled, "Burning Penis Trumps Health Care Reform"??? I donno about this country anymore... One guy tries to take down an airplane with a burning shoe and is out of the news cycle in 2 days yet another lights his dick on fire and three weeks later it's 24/7??? What's goin' on here, folks???

Are you implying that the poor dude won't be able to enjoy any of his 72 renewable virgins?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:39 PM

Well, another thought occured to me and that is that this guy was hired by the RNC so they could use it to rail against Obama (forever, mind you) over this and try to get this guy's lightin' his privates on fire in an airplane take health care reform off the front burner (pun intended)...

I mean, in 50 years this kid opens his American history book and there is a chapter entitled, "Burning Penis Trumps Health Care Reform"??? I donno about this country anymore... One guy tries to take down an airplane with a burning shoe and is out of the news cycle in 2 days yet another lights his dick on fire and three weeks later it's 24/7??? What's goin' on here, folks???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:24 PM

Anybody notice that in the US, this is always referred to as having happened on Christmas, while the BBC and others say December 25th?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 12:21 PM

What about Donner & Blitzen? You got something against Germanic-named reindeer?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 06:34 AM

Dancer and Prancer would probably do a far better job of running this planet at the moment...

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Smedley
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 02:20 AM

Apparently Dancer & Prancer are responsible. They were seen on their MySpace pages wearing trenchcoats and listening to Marilyn Manson, and are rumoured to have taken Rudolph hostage.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:02 PM

I'm sorry to say it, but every time I see the thread title "attempt mass murder Christmas" I visualize a bullet-riddled Santa's workshop with dead elves lying all over the place and Santa himself lying sprawled in the midst of them, clearly defunct, with grim looking FBI agents combing through the carnage and seeking evidence to find out what the hell happened...

Just thought I'd mention it, for what it's worth (which ain't much!).

Okay, that was it. Carry on without me.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 08:06 PM

That is possible. My comments were centered on him as a man, rather than as a politician. I do think his brand of Conservatism is in short supply and missed by many who do not necessarily agree with every aspect of it.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 07:35 PM

Tell ya'll what... Today's so-called conservatives would scare the hell outta Barry Goldwater... He'd be thinkin', "Geeze, these folks are friggin' lunatics"... He sho nuff would think that...

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 07:10 PM

First man to take a crew through the Grand Canyon on the Colorado River with a movie camera, I believe in the 1930s.

Dangerous enough without the heavy clunky camera used in those days.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 06:55 PM

Barry Goldwater was a hell of a guy, and a damn good photographer.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:58 AM

"To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable."   ~ Barry Goldwater

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:07 AM

MtheGM, the Islamists see the regime in Israel as a Western colonial occupier. They don't want to kill the Israelis. They want the regime in Israel to end in the same way that the apartheid regime in South Africa ended and the Soviet regime in Russia ended. This is not proof of Islam being a violent religion. Quite the opposite.

And while I do not support their methods, I do share their wish to see Israel go the way of South Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:00 AM

Sharia is not mainstream Islam in all parts of the world, Keith. For instance, it's not mainstream among Muslims in the US. And there isn't only one way to interpret Sharia law. During the Ottoman Empire, for instance, the only punishment for adultery was a fine, and four eyewitnesses had to testify that the adultery took place, which meant that it was very difficult to establish guilt. There is no uniformity among Muslim governments about how Sharia is applied. As I said before, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:55 AM

MtheGM, you said this:

small but determined group of Militant Islamists who themselves admit they are not concerned with American Imperialism, but declare themselves Koranically enjoined to impose by Jihad the Universal Caliphate"

I think that you have yourself proved my point. Clearly you are wrong to say they are not concerned with American Imperialism. bin Laden himself has said that they are (as I have repeatedly said in this thread, for which you have said I am not being rational). Even in the quote you have provided, bin Laden didn't say anything about a global caliphate. He was talking specifically about a caliphate uniting Muslims. He didn't say his aims were to convert anyone to Islam. He said uniting Musims, not creating new ones.

The quote you provided proves that al Qaeda's actions in the US are for the purpose of ending US imperialism in Muslim lands and nothing else. Their actions in Muslim lands may be for the purpose of uniting Muslims under a global caliphate, but not their actions in the US or other Western countries.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 08:21 AM

Well, I don't doubt the exixtence of extreme groups that have differing agendas... Right here in the good 'ol US of A if you were tyo get all the Christain Right extreists together in one big tent you'd find that after a couple of days they would break up into slpinter groups with each their own agendas... Pluralism just ain't as pure as some folks would like it to be... Or think it is, for that matter..

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 04:24 AM

Moreover, Carol, you are ignoring the ever-present proviso of all such groups that Israel's destruction is a sine qua non - see my above quote in my last post.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 03:56 AM

Carol, Sharia IS mainstream Islam.
If 40 % of British Muslim university students wish to be governed by it, the proportion among Muslims in general must be much higher, and most do live by it anyway.
It is forbidden to abort a healthy pregnancy.
The penalty is death for both abortionist and abortee.

African culture is hostile to gays, so please do not blame christians for that.
Some countries already execute gays, and they are not christian countries are they.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 03:18 AM

It was notoriously what was declared by Osama bin Laden after 9/11 — which, you must admit, was an occasion of some effectiveness to draw attention to the main group involved, El Qaeda, who in their turn have frequently declared it as the aim of all their training camps in Pakistan, Yemen, N Nigeria [where the individual the original subject of this thread originated]. I think if you google something like 'El Qaeda, declared aims' you will find what I say well documented.

e.g. "The principal stated aims of al-Qaeda are to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia; destroy Israel; and topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East. Bin Laden has also said that he wishes to unite all Muslims and establish, by force if necessary, an Islamic nation adhering to the rule of the first Caliphs."

You will note the aims postulated by both of us are present in this statement of Osama's which I just found online in an 'Infoplease entry on Al-Qaeda.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 03:04 AM

Oh, no. I don't imply that the group exists. At least not in the form you are saying it does. I am humoring you for the sake of argument.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 03:02 AM

Please provide some documentation for this assertion:

small but determined group of Militant Islamists who themselves admit they are not concerned with American Imperialism, but declare themselves Koranically enjoined to impose by Jihad the Universal Caliphate"

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:56 AM

CarolC - now that you appear again ready to engage me in rational discourse, I am happy to respond with like courtesy.

My answer is, I wish I knew — I would run for World President if I did. But thank you, at least, for the admission implied in your question that the group exists, and is separate from the anti-US-imperialism group you postulate - whose existence I, in my turn, do not deny. It seems to me, if I may say so, that the error you have been making thruout is to suggest that the existence of what I might call the 'your-motivated group' precludes the existence of the 'my-motivated group'. They are not in any way mutually exclusive -

& while there may be a solution [cessation of interference on part of US - oh if only!] to the problem posed by yours, I freely admit that I have no idea what, in the short or medium term, is to be done about the one that worries me -

Which is a 'back to square one' situation as ever was....

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:50 AM

Also, please explain to me their thinking behind their methods. In what way do they expect that blowing up a few planes and things on the other side of the world is going to help them spread their "global caliphate"?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:41 AM

Ok, let's look at that small group, MtheGM. What do you think is the solution to the problem of that small group?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:36 AM

Amendment:—

delete - "TROLL";

read instead "Person determined at all costs to avoid main point at issue, the danger posed by small but determined group of Militant Islamists who themselves admit they are not concerned with American Imperialism, but declare themselves Koranically enjoined to impose by Jihad the Universal Caliphate".

But remember my warning that, if you attempt to argue this point in any sort of philosophical or semantic detail, you will be liable to be accused of (a) being 'a tad racist'; and (b) of 'weaselling'!

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 12:33 AM

Please show me where I have defended militant Islamism, MtheGM. Also, I think you need to look up the definition of the word, "troll". It doesn't mean "people who say things MtheGM doesn't like".

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 12:01 AM

This is not addressed directly to CarolC for reasons predicated above —

But haven't you all noticed how much she is enjoying her self-appointed role of uninvited spokesperson in the defence of Militant Islamism [AlQaeda & 9/11 & 7/7 & MadridBombers & the lot of them] as being o-so-misunderstood, poor darlings!?. So they are not homicidal religious nuts with a Jihad-cum-GlobalCaliphate·as·supposedly·Koranically·enjoined after all, but just a group of maybe·misguided·but·would·be·universal·benefactors defending us all from wicked US Global Imperialism. (Contradict this view and you may just be 'a tad racist').

I suggest you all just stop responding to her absurdities and leave her to commune with herself till she gets fed up — she is IMO fast ascending to FULL TROLL STATUS — don't feed her any further!

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:55 PM

CarolC you have left me speechless. I'm gonna have to spend a few minutes to grok that! The truth is however that whatever we say to each other it is not my goal to put you in pain!

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:35 PM

Having said that, I will also say that I don't agree that the terrorism against the US is a symptom of the civil war between the various factions of Muslims. That is a product the warmongering and imperialism of those factions in the US who are working to spread their empire around the globe (a kind of closed society in that a small ruling elite decide the fates of most of the people in the world, as opposed to respecting the right of all peoples to self-determination).

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:29 PM

It almost pains to to have to say this, robomatic, but that was very well put.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:25 PM

Considering that in the recent troubles far more Muslims have been killed by Muslims, I think we are participating in a Muslim civil war on a grand scale, more or less their version of the Thirty Years War that bloodied Europe.

Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity and is experiencing its own internal 'rightist' or 'fundamentalist' movement attempting to reverse the move into a secular globalized world. Since the globalized secular world comes for the most part from the West, this fundamentalist group attacked the West using their own open-ness and technology as their weapons.

Just as their are interfaces within the spectrum of the Islamic world which incorporate different views from secular to preservationist to fundamentalist, so the secular world has its own spectrum of attitudes to bring to the party. There are secular anti-globalists who may find within the Islamic insurgency something to admire, there may be Christian fundamentalists who are one to one in agreement with the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood (if they bothered to research it), but will fight them to the death in the real world in the NAME of their particular belief set.

The ultimate trial is between the open society and the closed society. Each has its own particular advantages and weaknesses, Each comprises a bit of the soul of the other.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:24 PM

Keith, I think you don't have any idea whatever what mainstream Islam is. I think you have a concept of it that is based on your own prejudices but it does not in any way match up with reality. For instance, if abortion is against the law in a country with a Muslim government, it isn't necessarily true that violators of that law will be met with any more violence than violators of laws in the US, for instance. You are just making stuff up as you go along to try to promote your own prejudices about Muslims. You really have no idea what you are talking about. You are shooting from the hip.

The abortion murders weren't carried out by a government. They are examples of acts of terrorism carried out by Christians. They are hardly the only examples in the world of acts of terrorism being carried out by Christians and other non-Muslims. They are a small fraction of it. And if we are going to talk about repressive regimes, we need to talk about all repressive regimes around the world and compare the abuses committed by all of them. You only acknowledge acts of terrorism and abusive regimes when they are committed by Muslims, and you completely gloss over the many that are committed by people who are not Muslims. You've got one of those score cards that only has a place to put negative marks for the groups you hate, and only a place to put positive marks for everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 03:45 PM

George W. Bush: So-called born-again Christain who said that he gets his directions from God...

Deaths in Iraq from George W. Bush's apparent directions from God: 1,000,000...

I mean, let's get real here... What we have are a bunch of right winged extremists (Taliban/al qeada v. Christain Right) locked into struggle to out-right the other and the rest of the world is caught into their crossfire...

Let's get real here, Part B... When Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, tried to blow up and airplane it was out of the news cycles in two days... Why??? Because the Christain Right didn't want their boy, George W. Bush, to have to squirm...

Let's get real here, Part c... Now that the Cristain Right and their right-wing extreist mouthpieces and media outlets are out of power they will keep this story going as if it is worse than 9/11 itself... This is just a poorlu disguised attempt to cover their own asses over the decade of terror in which they, the Christain Right, were major players...

Let's get real here, Part D: If the Christain Right wanted the American people to be safer then they would shut the fuck up and become part of the solution rather than creat more partisan shit that only keeps their little ballgame goind with their Taliban/al qeada counterparts... But don't look for that to happen...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 03:12 PM

". But we are talking about terrorism in this thread, not repressive political regimes. If you want to change the subject and talk about that, we will have to include other examples than the people who murder abortion workers."

Others raised the issue of the murder of abortion workers.
I just showed that it was not a good argument that Christians are as violent and intolerant as Muslims.
That tiny handful out of 159 million US Christians are still not quite as extreme as MAINSTREAM Islam.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 01:21 AM

For instance, we could talk about the Christian government in Uganda that wants to pass a law making homosexuality a capital crime. This initiative, by the way, was instigated by some of our intolerant religious crazies in this country who have been evangelizing over there in Uganda lately. Some of these people are members of our government here.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 01:17 AM

*other than the people in the US who murder abortion workers...

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 01:14 AM

A handful of the 159 million Christians in USA are so extreme anti abortionists that they can match sharia law in its intolerance.

What would happen to an abortion clinic in an Islamic Republic Carol?

I don't know. But we are talking about terrorism in this thread, not repressive political regimes. If you want to change the subject and talk about that, we will have to include other examples than the people who murder abortion workers.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 08:41 PM

the point seems to be that Islamic terrorists are better at it than Christian terrorists. But who's keeping score...