BS: attempt mass murder Christmas

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:58 PM

SINSULL, when I was a 4-year-old, 5 of my relatives were in uniform, and another one was a prisoner of the Japanese.
Personally, I'm glad that the A-Bomb was used.
All six survived the war.
It isn't fashionable to make statements like that nowadays, is it!

It wasn't arrogance, it was common sense. It hasn't been sense to use it since, and no-one has.
I'm not American, if that matters.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:44 PM

Er, Muslims have been irredentist long before the US even existed, or was "discovered" in 1492 for that matter.

So what? The US obviously wasn't the first empire to interfere in other peoples' lands. But it's the one that is most guilty of it now.

People need to wake up. Short of killing all Muslims in the world, there just isn't a way to ensure that no Muslim will ever strike out at countries who carry out imperialist agendas in Muslim countries except to end the imperialism. That's the only way it can be done. Protect your borders and leave the rest of the world the hell alone. That's it. That's the only way it can be done. How many more people have to be killed before people stop being so stupid?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: GUEST,mark-s(on the road)
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:15 PM

And the solution to the problem is for the US to end it's quest for empire and get the hell out of everyone else's countries. Our imperialism is what's causing the problem.

Er, Muslims have been irredentist long before the US even existed, or was "discovered" in 1492 for that matter.

Charles Martel.....where are you now that we need you.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:58 PM

whew.

Now that was heavy Donuel, very heavy.

I'm definately not going to get involved in this thread.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:23 PM

halleluya yemen

I am watching all the scoundrels running with this terrorist attack story to advance their authority, bank accounts or simply raise the noise level to drown out the voice of reason.

The first was the R congressman from Michigan who sent out letters to get donations so that he may protect American families on Chrismas day from terrorists. Then there was Pat Buchannon screaming that the bomber who detonated the bomb should have all medication withdrawn so that the torture from his burns will make him talk. Afterall the torture was self inflicted.
Tom Ridge is outraged that this bomber is to be tried in Federal court. But he was glad to have Richard Reed the shoe bomber tried and convicted in Federal Court under Bush. Both of these bombers used the same explosive and both were stopped in the same manner, by passengers. The only real difference was who was president at the time.
Security firms with elaborate expensive devices are out to sell with a vengence.
Cable news has a new 24 7 story that doesn't have the legs or a dead body of a Michael Jackson story or a Anna Marie story but it'll do in a pinch.

Glen Beck weighs in:
I can't wait to see the video from the airport of the older accomplice to this sick muslim murderer. Who was it? BARACK OBAMA? I'm just askin. Where was he on Christmas eve anyway. Hawaii? Prove it. I doubt you can Mr. Hussein.

Last but not least to milk this story is Al Qada who are crowing about how they got explosive powder past security systems in at least three countries. This episode they hope will recruit hundreds of true believers who will burn off their penis' at the bare minumum, or best of all blow their testicles through thier brains for Allah.

Not to be crass but if you read the internet postings of the "crazy kid" you will see how if he had only gotten laid EVEN ONCE this whole episode would have never happened.

(with tongue in cheek and elsewhere)

I blame the WOMEN!

Ladies, you could have prevented this kid from going ballistic.
Comon its not just chairity, its saving lives. This is clearly a case of linking abstinence to mass murder. How hard would it have been to just give Mohamed's flying carpet a tug. Jeez Louise, people are getting way too tight assed.

This is Smokey the bare saying, "only you can prevent abstinence.
Put out the fire before the fire burns you."

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:15 PM

It is the "cloud of radioactive dust" scenario that gives terrorists all the power. Dirty bombs carry minimal radioactivity. Strip, shower, get the hell away and you can avoid the worst. These are not like the huge mushroom cloud we inflicted on Japan.
By the way - ask any student what is the only country to use nuclear weapons. Then gently inform them it was us.
It astonishes me when I hear that certain nations can't be trusted with the bomb. LOL How many countries have nuclear capability? And who was the only one arrogant enough to use it?
I shake my head and sigh. mary

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 06:30 PM

Face it

Pandora's box has been opened. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
We can't put things back together they way they were before the use of atomic weapons even with all the King's troops and all the King's statesmen.

While few people actually sit on their hands, it is never a matter of never.

It is only a matter of when.

We will watch a cloud of radioactive dust engulf a helpless town.
We did it unseen in Iraq and elswhere.
And when it does so here, we will remind ourselves that the real victims are the bloodied celebrants and foolishly, but predictably blame each other back and forth while breathing in the dust of death.

Good Times
End Times
Time enough to die
If it were not so fucking predictable
we might even stop to cry.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:45 PM

So, should we sit on our hands until a cloud of radioactive dust engulfs a helpless town?
And when it does, remind ourselves that the real victims are the bloodied celebrants?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: bankley
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM

Archie Bunker said that all airline passengers should carry guns...

forever and ever, Yemen..

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 04:48 PM

Some info:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/11/how-to-survive-a-dirty-bomb-attack/

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 04:44 PM

Rapaire, I expect it much sooner than that as do many "experts". Recently, a TV program aired with a dirty bomb going off in Old Port -downtown Portland, ME. Keep in mind that Maine has oil tankers coming in and out every day. The theory is that a smaller city with a port will be a better target causing a complete shutdown of the city, panic re: radiation and yet still provide huge casualty numbers.

They keep stressing that the the radioactive threat is more pyschological than actual. I hope they're right.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 04:00 PM

"Who knows. maybe people will prefer flying if everyone is required to be naked and sedated".

This may add significant #s to the mile high club?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 03:49 PM

Here at Darpa we have a computer simulator that started as a climate modeling computer. We use it to simulate where the next likly attack will occur and when. Its a bit like playing Clue.

Rapaire, could you give us a specific date for our simulator to work on? We also have a little betting pool we call the market, so a little insider trading info could really help me cash in. Frankly, Flint Michigan wasn't even on our radar this time around.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 03:39 PM

Well, I'm normally a peaceful person....but.....it's about time we came to our senses and started shooting some of these poisonous people, because this world is fast getting to the state where soon, no-one will be able to do anything.

I don't give a toss about making them martyrs. I don't give a toss about what kind of childhood they had. I don't give a toss about who brain-washed them, or why.   It's not rocket science to know that blowing up hundreds of innocent people, bringing tragedy to so many families, is NOT a good thing to do.....

And those Seven Virgins will sure be mad as hell!

I am so not into million dollar trials, or loads of social workers, prison reformers, all trying to make them better....just take 'em out and shoot 'em...although to be honest, even that's too damned good.

Some things are just plain evil..and we have allowed Evil to walk in because of being way too lily livered with folks who don't give a shit about shit...and who have no compassion, empathy, guilt or social conscience.

If my dog attacked someone, he'd be put down immediately...

I am so f*cking angry about these people...

The whole damn world is being held to ransom because of a tiny minority who KNOW that we've all become so darn nambypamby!

Geez...if my children were onboard a flight that was blown up, I'd not rest until I'd taken revenge on every single bastard who'd organised it!

We have so lost the plot.

People who do evil, in my opinion, deserve no compassion whatsoever..

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 03:36 PM

By the way...I expect that the US will be attacked by some sort of nuclear device within the next ten or so years. I also expect biological and chemical attacks. These will almost certainly be directed against one of the large port cities, such as San Diego, LA, SF, Chicago, Baltimore, Boston, New Orleans, Mobile, etc. Further deponent saith not.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 03:35 PM

In the 70s, Alice, I triggered a full blown terrorist alarm at Buffalo Airport. In my carry on, my brother had packed some special sonar paper used on fishing boats to track fish underwater. It was for my father.Eight rolls of metallic finished paper in a box in my carry on. I went through the checkpoint and when the security agent saw they x-ray he pushed an alarm. Armed men with rifles appeared from nowhere while I babbled "It's sonar paper." DOH!


Donuel,
Hyperbole aside. We have a very serious problem that has to be addressed by the president NOW. What do we do today to make our airplanes safe for travellers and those living near airports? If one inexperienced and confused young man can manage to get on board a flight with a bomb large enough to bring it down, it is not unreasonable to think in terms of multiple flights landing around the same time in various cities across the US and Britain and anywhere else with bombs on board. Another September 11 size massacre.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 03:28 PM

Strip the passengers naked, do a body cavity search of each one, sedate them, pile them in like cordwood, and revive them at their destination (you don't get your own clothes back).

Secure travel, and the airlines make a LOT of profit since they won't have conscious passengers to deal with. And if a few don't awaken, well, that's the way it goes.

Sorry folks -- I flew from BWI to Salt Lake City yesterday. I felt no more secure than I have since, oh, 1978 or so....

Perhaps I know too much or have too good an imagination (or both). We should have realized as long ago as 1900 that suicide in the cause of religion or other fanaticism would continue to be used as a weapon -- e.g., the kamikazes of WW2.

But we don't learn from history, and the military and our "security" forces just fight the last war over and over -- and that way costs many, many lives before we learn and THEN we apply the lessons we learned to the current war, and the cycle goes ever onward, panicked reactions and all.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 02:45 PM

Who knows. maybe people will prefer flying if everyone is required to be naked and sedated.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Alice
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 02:44 PM

Back in the 1980's, I flew to visit a friend in San Diego. I brought a wrapped birthday gift with me, a stack of bathroom towels with a matching color plastic clock for her bathroom on the top of the stack.

When I arrived, we had to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait at luggage claim. Everyone stood around for a long time until the luggage from our flight finally showed up. When I got to my friends house, I noticed very slight change to the tape holding the gift wrap together. Then I realized, my gift with the small clock in it must have been searched as a possible bomb. Doh!

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 02:31 PM

If you think EdT hit it on the head...why stop there> ?????????


How to have an enjoyable International or short flight:

Do not travel alone.
Do not bring liquids or powders or anything in tin foil.
Do not appear nervous or frustrated.
Do not have a thousand yard stare expression.
Do not be seen looking at a map.
Do not say hello to anyone named Jack.
Do not say Yeah man.
Do not discuss that pilots now earn as much as $15,000 a year.
Do not have a name with the consecutive letters AL, AR or MO
Do not wear a tampon.
Do not wear Depends.
Do not use talcum powder.
Do not feel uncomfortable as TSA employees titter and point at your Xray.
Do not go to bathroom on the plane in the final hour of a flight.
Do not use blanket or pillow.
Do not say anything other than thank you to any flight attendent.
Do not say anything other than thank you to a strip cavity search.
Do not take pictures, but smile (only slightly) at all cameras on you.
Do not stare out the plane window.

Do NOT COMPLAIN or ASK for anything (including Orange Juice) even if;
you are on the wrong flight, with a load of poop in your pants from the vaseline strip search, cold as hell because you had to check your bags with your medicine, do not look scared that your cell phone and lap top were left on in your luggage and will catch fire again, see a suspicious guy lighting his underwear on fire (he might just be trying to dry his pants from having peed), appear calm even if your arms and legs go numb, or your in flight snack crawls away on its own.


Do's;


Have a good quiet relaxing time while sitting unmoving with your palms upward and empty, neither staring or appearing tired, in pain or agitated. The airline will assist you by turning down the oxygen to minimal life support levels and allowing exhaust to fill the plane.
Remember the 3 s's
Submit, surrender and sit.

Helpful hint: Appear happy and amused when your luggage is lost.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 02:12 PM

I'd say Ed T hit it right on in his post above @ Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:31 AM.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 01:45 PM

I do not think we can cure the world of psychological problems, and there seems to be a ready supply of willing victims of the "thugs."
The overwhelming view here is that the existance of the thugs is an inevitable consequence of US and Western foreign policy. We just need to stop what we are doing and they will stop attempting indiscriminate mass slaughter of people and children after about 200 years.
Some people beyond Mudcat think that we are seeing a Jihad whose only goal is a global Caliphate. Whatever we do they will continue until stopped.
I hope Mudcat is right on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 01:44 PM

I admit that treating war as a disase of hate and suspicion that can be cured is a utopian idea. In my heart I believe differently.
From an omnicient point of view, from Mt Olympus or the beyond heaven's gate, the whole idea of hate and war are reduced to insignificance. From a godly point of view all the worst evil and terrible acts of war are but only a survival trait that is neither good or bad...it just is.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 01:21 PM

Religious, political and economic reaons be damned!

The problem is in ourselves. It is a problem Psychologic, or as we say in English a psychological problem.

The crazy kid posted on the interent from 1995 about how lonely he was. Whatever sense of community he may have felt lacking was finally filled by thugs who took advantage of his psychological problem for their own sick acts to satisfy their sick psychological problems. Sure go ahead and say "Awww he was lonely".
All the same;
We are both private and social animals.
George Carlin says he likes people on an individual basis (for short periods) but hated groups and mobs in general. I know what he means.
On a private level some people may individually become psychotic but that is realtively rare.
Things often tend to go terribly wrong in mobs or groups, even those that have the 'best of intentions'. (the title of my book)

This sickness needs a worldwide name. It has had many names already like holocaust and World War and intolerence. It certainly should not be called a "war on __________"
This sickness needs a simple and esperanto type name.
I submit I am at a loss for he best name.

After we acknowledge the illness we can begin to fight the illness and not just repond to individual symptoms.

If there is a God, I am sure you would not prefer 'his/her' 2012 cure.
It is up to us to see the disease, help others to understand the disease, and do the most healing treatments we can while there is time.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 01:02 PM

When I take short haul flights of an hour or two, I am amazed with all the stuff people carry on. Do they actually feel they need this stuff at arms length? I suspect it's only to save a few minute wait at the terminal for checked luggage.

It's surprising to hear the complaints when security tells folks thsy cannot carry on liquids? Why would anynone need to carry on item s like hair jell anyway? Don't they realize the purpose is to make their lives more secure?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:57 PM

The cycle of victimhood needs to be stopped. Whatever policies that make this happen should be pursued ceaselessly.



In about 200 years (if we are lucky) the radicalized muslims will have died out or forgotten the atrocities commited by all sides.

Afterall here in the US no one is still sore over the civil war and emmancipation.


...except for the Sons of the Confederacy, kkk, white power thugs, tea baggers, "real Americans", neo Republicans and the silent bigots.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: mg
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:36 PM

All of it.

And the cabinet member I have the most qualms about is Napiltano. Put her in charge of immigration or something but does she have the qualifications to be in charge of HS? I haven't heard so. mg

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:22 PM

Dropping bombs on people who very likely have no responsibility for this is what "every element of our national power" sounds ominously as if it might mean. I hope that in this instance Obama, while using the required rhetoric, is too smart to be actually thinking in those terms.

That kind of response would do nothing to reduce the likelihood of this happening again - in fact the reverse.

On the other hand working out a range of sensible precautions and sticking to them does reduce the danger.

In this instance it is very evident that if the people responsible for the safety of travellers had been doing their job the man would never have made it on to the plane.   That is the priority.

Cutting down on all kinds of luggage would make a lot of sense, Expecting people to travel light and buy or rent what they need at the other end makes sense, especially on long distance flights.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:07 PM

And the solution to the problem is for the US to end it's quest for empire and get the hell out of everyone else's countries. Our imperialism is what's causing the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:02 PM

How did that stuff get through airport screening? Don't we already have enough security measures in place to prevent something like that from happening?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:01 PM

"He was accompagnied by a 55 year old man of Indian/Pakistani appearence who helped the kid get on the plane despite the fact the kid DID NOT HAVE A PASSPORT. Apparently a manager at the airport allowed this to happen."

Actually the Michigan couple who saw this man said only that he was a well dressed older man who asked to get the younger man on board without a passport. The agent referred him to a manager.
23 is hardly a kid. So far, I have seen no official confirmation of their story. They may have mistaken someone else, given the circumstances. It can't be difficult to confirm whether or not he had a passport. Wouldn't he have needed it to get through US Customs?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:55 AM

I hope they do not prevail Ed.
Is hoping enough?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:31 AM

Donuel

I suspect a good case of who is right and who is wrong can be made by those on either side of the issue.

We kill (and put fright into) their ciizens through high tech bombs...using our best advantage, sometimes from afar. They kill (and put fright into) ours using our best advantage, through low technology(taking advantage of our lifestyles) We favour (and often prop up) governments that reinforce our society and beliefs, they favour (and would prop up) one that reinforces their needs and beliefs. We demonize their perspectives and techniques. They demonize ours. Isn't that what conflict is all about?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:30 AM

All good points, except the refernce to education, opportunity in society,maturity, etc.
This one was from a very privileged background and highly educated.
The ones who tried to incinerate all the people in Glasgow Airport were doctors and medical professionals.
They claim victimhood, but you have to suspect that they seek Jihad not revenge.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:12 AM

Some people say that what is most frightening is that we are so much alike, and not the fact we are so different.
I understand this. IF you say you have never harbored the emotions and mechanations of REVENGE, you are a liar, or you are lieing to yourself.

The difference between people who can forgive or at least seek legal judicial solutions, and the people who act in violent revenge, is a thin line.
Perhaps that fine line is strengthened by education and opportunity in society, perhaps not. Perhaps that line breaks in cases where sanity or maturity is frail, perhaps not.

Whatever the reason, those of us who seek rational and peaceful justice instead of blind revenge, end up making fewer victims than those who only create more violence and revenge.

The cycle of victimhood needs to be stopped. Whatever policies that make this happened should be pursued ceaselessly.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:41 AM

The can of worms is that now we may have to hear Pat Buchannon scream that we are at war and that we should withold all treatment and pain medication from the crazy kid who set his genitals on fire and suffered 3rd degree burns. Torture the animal! Bomb Yeman! Don't let him have a lawyer or the ACLU will set him free, send this mass murderer to GITMO and throw away the key..etc etc. etc.

________________________________________________________-

The fact is we are bombing Yemen. Most recently on Christmas eve and again 2 days later.

The crazy kid bought his ticket with help on Christmass eve eve.

He was accompagnied by a 55 year old man of Indian/Pakistani appearence who helped the kid get on the plane despite the fact the kid DID NOT HAVE A PASSPORT. Apparently a manager at the airport allowed this to happen.

PETN has failed twice to explode aboard a commercial plane. Perhaps this once succeeded but we were not told.


Short of X ray scanning everyone, or ridiculously asking people to sit palms upward for the final hour of the flight and denied all visits to the bathroom, will not stop these attempts.

This year a Suadi Prince survived an Al Quada explosion from a bomb activated by a cell phone call. The bomb was inside the terrorists rectum.


The US can not occupy 60 countries that harbor these whackos.

The only answer is a steady appeal to the moderate Muslims to police their own culture. When enough sane fathers report their crazy sons AND WE TAKE IT SERIOUSLY , maybe then this firnge will decay like our own KKK over a number of decades.
**********This is the only proven method that I have seen work in my lifetime.***********

Unfortueately it seems that the homegrown USA terrorists in the form of armed tea baggers, anti abortionists and Xeno racephobes with an arsenal and enough ammunition to kill a town, are being spurred on by a segment of mass media. Even one top level assasination could send this country into a sprial of violence and terrorism that the Muslim countries have found themselves in for generations.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:35 AM

How did he get that stuff on the plane?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:33 AM

Personally, I never understood why people feel they have to carry on so much stuff on an aircraft. People take huge amounts of material and storet it over the heads of passengers (that could be projectiles in rough weather).

Additionally never understood why the security folks let passengers and the airlines do it....since it poses a significant weak point for those wanting to do bad things. I suspect its mostly a profit thing for the airline companies....as it allows them more cargo space below....for commercial shipments.

If there was less or no carry on items....it would free up security to pay attention to other items that may be brought onboard....as in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:30 AM

"I think Keith's question was: "How much of his "national power" is acceptable to use? "

Le'ts see now. 279 people were supposed to go screaming to a horrible death. The fragments of the airliner might come crashing down on buildings and people below. And you wish us to discuss an abstract concept like 'national power?'

Me, I'd like to know if the airport employees were smoking their famous wacky tobaccy before they let the guy on the plane.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:30 AM

According to ongoing reports, a dirty bomb is in our futures. Although the radiation is minimal, the panic it creates will cause irrational fear. Ten years ago I would have laughed at the possibility. Now I shrug and think - we'll deal with it when it happens.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:15 AM

As Rapair said, if we make flying totally secure, they will switch targets.
No one can breach Israel's flight security, so they get on a bus carrying lots of children or drive into a club full of youngsters.
It seems better to leave them in their faraway lands of which we know little.
That is what many said about Hitler in the 30s.
They will just get stronger and perfect their ways of killing us.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:03 AM

Sad but true: on Sunday that same flight to Detroit. A Nigerian man went to the rest room and stayed "too long". The pilots called for security to meet them upon landing. No one is saying exactly what happened to the man on the plane but upon arrival he was escorted off and questioned then released.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:23 AM

Keith,
In this case, Homeland Security did not use the information they had to protect its citizens. First step is to create (if they haven't already) a computer program to coordinate incoming information and red flag potential problems.
The airlines, in this case, had a cash paying customer on an international flight with no luggage. They should have caught this. Again, a simple computer program or properly trained agent could have red flagged this passenger.
Funny how they instantly know if I short changed my income taxes by $15 but haven't the ability to keep a mass murderer off a plane despite numerous warnings.
I think my biggest complaint is the innate complacency of those claiming to protect us. They usurp one privacy after another and then lose sight of the real threat. This will happen again and we will have another September 11. Meantime, we will be fed a lot of platitudes about how it all worked out OK because Tom from Sarasota jumped across the aisle, put out the fire and kept the terrorist in a choke hold.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: jacqui.c
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:22 AM

I came back from the UK through Heathrow yesterday and the security was almost Draconian. Even after clearing normal security EVERYONE on the flight I was on had their bags searched at the gate and was subjected to a pat down, even the three year old in front of me.

Talking to an official in Boston airport it seems that, whilst the UK is taking this action, this is not the case at the Dutch airport through which this guy for his flight. I know that UK security is generally pretty good - twice a year I have to get through it - but maybe the rest of the world should be looking to improve their own security. After all, their own nationals are likely to be travelling on those planes.

I do think that, as passengers, we should be more aware of what is happening around us but, in this case, there was a definite failure to act by a number of authorities in a number of countries.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:14 AM

SMALL, highly trained, INTELLIGENT, police and military squads who speak the local language and don't think that a bullet or missile is the only answer to a highly complex problem.

By the way, I can think of other terrorist acts which would be nearly impossible to prevent (at least in the USA), would embarrass the government, and would take a lot of people with me. I will NOT NOT NOT give examples...there's already too much of that being done.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:08 AM

The government of Yemen is asking for help to rid them of Al Qaeda.
The attack came from there.
What could we reasonably offer?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:03 AM

The guy had, according to the Washington Post, a bag or condom filled with PETN explosive hanging down from his "torso." A pat-down or a sniffer dog or a "puffer" gate would have detected it ("Is that explosives in your pocket or are you glad to see me?").

Why was he allowed on board with a syringe and without a note that he was diabetic?

Granted, so far the dumbasses have proven that they can't light their shoes on fire but they CAN do a great job setting their crouch on fire. In both cases passengers have (as they have with drunks and psychotics) proven that they can and will solve the problem themselves -- the spirit of Flight 93 lives on.

The "first line" failed, the "second line" failed, so it was left to the passengers to take action. This sounds typical to me.

I don't fear Obama as much as I feared Cheney and Co., but I do think that there are people in DC and elsewhere scrambling like crazy to CYA.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 09:02 AM

"...those watching and waiting for an opportunity..."
"Sooner or later they are going to recruit more efficient suicide bombers"

How should we be protected from them?
What should Obama do next?

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:50 AM

The sad truth is that for a while air travellers will be subjected to ridiculously long delays until those in charge grow complacent - again - and those watching and waiting for an opportunity take advantage.
Sooner or later they are going to recruit more efficient suicide bombers for the job.

There is no excuse for all these blatant signs of a real problem to have been ignored or allowed to "slip through the cracks". Two hundred plus lives in addition to those killed on the ground nevermind the effect on national morale is a very big crack.

Subject: RE: BS: attempt mass murder Christmas
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:49 AM

I think Keith's question was: "How much of his "national power" is acceptable to use? "

Seems to be a notable silence on that one.