BS: £800 fine for low school attendance

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 05:09 PM

OK - No problem even though it is the wrong way round. It is usualy the proposor of he argument that gets to start but fair enough, we will work to your rules.

This should make you happy. It is a 2009 Ofsted report that states that inadequcy is 'soaring' in our schools. 1 in 13 schools, and their teachers I suppose, are now considered inadequate so I guess you are right. Oh, hang on, maybe my maths is wrong. Does 1 school in 13 being inadequate equate to the majority being bad? I realy must try harder.

Back to you to provide this proof of the majority of teachers being bad I suppose:-(

I realy don't know what you are on about in the second bit. I would have had no idea if the guest would have agreed with you either. I repeat once more. I take no notice of guest postings. What has hypocracy got to do with bad teaching or the price of fish?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 04:54 PM

OK, dave...you prove the majority of teachers are good.

Off you go....it works both ways...


"No need to be intrigued, Lizzie. Quite simple - I take no notice of guest posts."

My, how convenient for you. Of course, had a 'Guest' posted wonderful, beautiful, magical, sparkling things about me, I've no doubt they'd have been shot to smithereens then 'enlightened' about the 'truth about Lizzie'

Good job this thread isn't about Hypocrites, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 04:37 PM

No need to be intrigued, Lizzie. Quite simple - I take no notice of guest posts.

All the rest you have posted is aside to the main issue. You believe that the majority of teachers are bad. Other people, including myself, argue that the majority of teachers are good. Seeing as it is you that are making the argument it is generaly accepted that the onus of proof lies with you but I am quite happy to accept proof either way and I would also add that you could be right. I doubt it but never let it be said I am not open minded.

In a nutshell - I am quite happy to accept PROOF that the majority of teachers are bad if you are willing to supply the hard evidence rather than the hearsay and anecdotes you usualy give. Either prove conclusively that most teachers are bad or stop saying it.

Of course you don't have to provide proof but would that not make people wonder about your credibility?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 03:31 PM

And Dave, I'm intrigued.

A short while back you went bananas over a post of mine. It was the story of Jimmy James and The Hate Register. That Reigster is due to be brought into schools.

Above here, at 11.04am, there is a post from someone who has come in as 'Guest' to post a deeply personal message about me. It is incorrect, it lies, it is deeply abusive, it is highly unpleasant, bullying and unkind...

...and yet, you have made no mention of it whatsoever.

Why not?

Why would complain about a story highlighting the dangers of a Hate Register, in the wrong hands, and yet you are perfectly happy to let that post about me stand, and to let others agree with that post, whilst not jumping to my defence in any way at all?

I am not shouting 'victim' here, I'm merely puzzled about what I perceive to be deeply varying attitudes over some messages.

There is no need to answer. Just a need for some thought, perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 03:16 PM

Dave, many people are 'getting at me'...I am their prey, always have been, and you are friends with one of those folks.

The whole point you have missed is that Home Educating families so very often know that school is absolutely wonderful for many children, as I've said so many times before. We do not have a problem with others sending their children to school. What I have a problem with is being told that home educating is bordering on the criminal, when 'the system' nearly made my child give up on life.

She is far from alone. If you read home educating magazines you will read the same story, over and over again, of children who cannot cope with factory farm schools, tick boxes, exams, tests, pressure, being bawled at, being bullied. They are so often deeply sensitive children who need quiet lives, who WANT quiet lives and they are sent into places that literally drive them half mad with fear and worry.

I would NEVER expect, let alone *force* a child to learn something they have no interest in, because I know that a child won't learn it.
Why the hell should they? Who decides what a child learns in 'The System'?   What makes them think they know what is best?

"YOU MUST LEARN TO READ AND WRITE!"

Some people can't. Yet they are able to build their own houses, be your builder, your plumber, whoever...

"YOU MUST LEARN MATH!"

Some people can't. Yet they get by OK, with simple sums that are needed for everyday life.

"YOU MUST LEARN SCIENCE!"

Some people may never want to. They love the magic that lies inside things, without ever wanting to know the scientific facts.

Some adore History, some Geography, some are born Mechanics, some are Healers, some are simply wonderful at listening to others...They are artists, musicians, writers, potters or poets..

Everyone has something they are wonderful at, no matter how small the wonder might be. It is how nature has designed us, as a species, to have different skills, different interests, different brains which light up in different areas...

The National Curriculum seeks to destory these natural gifts, turning off many children from their natural love for YEARS. Some never recover it, some do.

Some adore the National Curriculum. They love to be told what to do, what is expected of them, and they thrive on achievement. That is right...for them.

It is not right for all.

You educate your child your way. I will not stop you.

My children learnt their way, eventually, when they were free of The System, which was a System that poisoned their souls for a while.

They are now free of that poison. Thank God.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:27 PM

BTW Lizzie - Don't take this so personaly. No-one is getting at you. There is no need to justify to anyone here or anywhere else that you made the right decision in taking your children out of the system. It was right for you. It was right for them. Other peoples experiences are different, that's all.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:24 PM

So, a very simple answer to all this fuss then. Lizzie believes that the majority of teachers are bad.

And I disagree with you about good teachers. They are NOT, imo, 'in general' but 'in the minority'.

The rest of us disagree for various reasons. It's very easy to prove or disprove I guess. Without getting emotional, particularly if you are a teacher or if someone close to you is, can anyone provide a guidline for what is a good or bad teacher and whether the majority of teachers are above or below that line. Nothing anecdotal please. Just the bare facts.

Seemples.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:14 PM

Then you were, imo, very lucky, David.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:03 PM

And I disagree with you about good teachers. They are NOT, imo, 'in general' but 'in the minority'.

And there we have it. The point of disagreement. In my opinion they are, in the main, good. Like all other walks of life, apart from politics where they are all idiots, I believe the majority of people are good at what they do. The fact that you chose to believe the worse is pretty significant. In other things you tell us that you are optimistic, 'half full', positive. You frown upon people who are nay-sayers and yet, over this one point, you have decided that the majority of teachers are bad. Why is that? I am no psychologist so I will not even attempt to find out but one thing I will say. If you do not know one way or another, do not argue about it. Get the facts first. Argue from a solid standpoint.

I am not going to quote any facts and figures but I am pretty sure that any survey will support the view that most people are good at what they do, enjoy it and give their all to make sure other people benefit. Whether they are shopkeepers or teachers.

Give it up Lizzie. We are never going to change your mind. What makes you think you are going to change anyone elses?

DeG

BTW - I remember every single one of my teachers at secondary school. All but one were brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 01:24 PM

"Very sensible comment. So why insist on lumping them all together by condemning the whole 'edukashun' system?"


Dave, I have always said that I support brilliant teachers who care about their pupils.

So many of the excellent teachers have left though. They have left because of 'The System' and the way they are no longer able to teach as THEY want to, in a way they KNOW works.

Our Education Welfare Officer, a former teacher himself, of long-standing, as was his wife, before she was paralysed in a car accident, used to almost weep at what was happening inside The System, and believe you me, he KNEW!   

He knew that Home Education was growing on a rapid scale and he knew the reasons for most of that growth too. He dealt not only with the likes of us, but with the children who were expelled too. He used to turn up at their house, five days a week to deliver 5 hours of edukashon to a child that had no interest in learning.

He was a wonderful man, understood kids inside out. He soon had them working alongside him and enjoying doing that work, because he'd used different methods to bring the children over to his side, to make them interested, to inspire them.    They were entitled to 25 hours free home education a week. I think that may now have increased to full time hours, along the same hours as ordinary schooling.

We, as home edcators, got nothing from the system, other than a yearly inspection (6 monthly if they were worried, but we never needed extra visits) and the top mark of 'satisfactory'. They never awarded anything higher to home educators, than 'satisfactory', no matter the calibre of the child, no matter their intelligence, the work they'd covered, the examinations, the degrees achieved, nothing, but NOTHING went above 'satisfactory'..which shows you the mean minded, mean spirited, narrow minded prats who are in The System, because they couldn't BEAR to think that ANY home educated child was better educated than if they had been at school.

So bloody insulting!


And I disagree with you about good teachers. They are NOT, imo, 'in general' but 'in the minority'. Most people only remember the good teachers, and they only remember a very few of those. They tend to stick in our minds because they were the ones who were kind, gentle and understanding to us, who made us laugh and feel good about our work and about ourselves.


There are now more Factory Farm Schools than ever before in this country, vast souless places where thousands of children spend their secondary school life. Smaller schools have been closed down and centralised.

Bit like Russia..?

They were saying in the paper the other day that pupils and teachers alike are struggling in these mega schools. They breed trouble and fear, more often than not. I know. My daughter went to one such school and now, it is even BIGGER than it was then. Totally nuts!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 01:22 PM

I was referring to the film. "Morris a Life with bells on"
A satire on an abstract Morris side.
The lead character's name was Derecq.
Who's Folkiedave?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 01:07 PM

I just re-read that and realised that there can only be TWO polar opposites! Well - it is still one too many for me:-)

D.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 01:07 PM



Very sensible comment. So why insist on lumping them all together by condemning the whole 'edukashun' system?

But my point is not about the good and bad, it is about the average or norm. I GENERALY ask shop assitants for advice because GENERALY they know what they are talking about. Just in the same way as MOST teachers are GENERALY good. Neither excelent or terrible. Just getting on with the job and making a pretty good job of it while some people insist that 'they' are ruining our children and not making the distinction between good and bad!

Sorry but there are too many polar opposites here for me to make any sense of what is being said.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 12:14 PM

"Maybe it is me, but if I ever wanted advice on what to buy, I would go to a shop assistant. If I wanted advice on how the education system is being run I would go to a teacher. Stupid I know, but that is me..."


I can assure there are very many shop assistants who haven't a clue about what they sell, nor an interest either. They are not bovvered at all.

EXACTLY the same can be said for many teachers and 'their' education system.


There are also excellent shop assistants who know their stock, their companies, inside out, who put their heart and soul into their jobs and do all they can to help their customers.

EXACTLY the same can be said for excellent teachers who care about their pupils in the same way.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 12:03 PM

No, but I expect you listen to his radio show, Ralph. It's run under his other name, of Folkiedave.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 11:59 AM

Well said Derecq,
(Didn't I see you in a film last year?)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Derecq
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 11:04 AM

I think you are all wrong about Lizzie and she needs to be congratulated.

As well as working in a shop, doing open-heart surgery for Paul McCartney, making sure the whole dog population of South West England gets walked each day, advising parents with dyslexia on how to handle their teachers, giving her mother-in-law 24/7 hour attention, looking up everything anyone needs to know about autism and dyslexia so she can argue with people about it, making up web pages with a bloke from Canada, looking after American visitors and making sure their needs are met whilst in the UK, following up conspiracy theories, and posting replies to them, running a Show of Hands website, a Reg Meuross fan magazine, and a Bruce Murdoch fan club, She still manages to post on here and educate her son.

Why not give one of these things up Lizzie? Preferably posting on here. Go look after your son.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 05:53 AM

'but if I ever wanted advice on what to buy, I would go to a shop assistant.'

Obviopsly you've never shopped at Dixons Dave :)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 05:50 AM

I don't realy think Ralph needs to explain his shop worker comment. It was not a slight on any of those remarkable, patient and long suffering crew that have to put up with the mad rants of the few day in, day out. Did I tell you my first two jobs were in retail? I actualy rode one of the last few grocers bikes (Granville of 'Open all Hours' style) making deliiveries for Redmans in Salfard. I also worked in Eccles market hall - On the handbag stall of all things! Anyhow - back to the point. It was obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that Ralph was not having a go at shop workers. He was simply wondering why, with all the obvious skills some people have, they were not running the country instead of working in a shop. Maybe it is me, but if I ever wanted advice on what to buy, I would go to a shop assistant. If I wanted advice on how the education system is being run I would go to a teacher. Stupid I know, but that is me...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Mar 10 - 02:57 AM

"lizzie, i haven't been roped into anything, yes we were friends once, even going over to FB. but the first time i disagreed with you, you defriended me! not something a true friend would do.

Eh?

jeddy, for your information, I removed ALL my friends from my Facebook page because I closed that page down. I took the whole lot off, friends, videos, words..everything. It was not personal, you know. That is the danger of the internet, people misinterpret things, assume the worst. I did not have the time, nor the inclination, to write to everyone on my page. I merely shut that page down.


"since then the more i have read of you, the more i dislike you."

Fair enough. That is entirely your choice. I am not here to justify myself to you, or others. There are times I'm not too keen on things you say, but please note, that I do not openly attack you or say the things you do about me or to me.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:31 PM

oops, who can't count? i meant 150.
good job i don't work in a bank, you would all love me!

x x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:30 PM

i got 500!!!! yay meeeee.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:23 PM

lizzie, i haven't been roped into anything, yes we were friends once, even going over to FB. but the first time i disagreed with you, you defriended me! not something a true friend would do.

since then the more i have read of you, the more i dislike you.

i actually agree loosley with some of the things you say, but not your approach.
i have seen little in your posts that you are able to accept you are wrong or mistaken on anything.
you worry me lizzie. the way you can upend every subject to suit your mood that day is actually rather scary. i know i use the word I alot, but am quite happy to try to understand how things i write can affect other poeple something which you seem to have problems with.
you say you care about people when you comes accross as being incredibly self centred.

to you and me (depending on the subject) words on a screen are exactly that. but i think you forget that there are PEOPLE behind that screen with emotions and feelings.

i need no one to pull my strings and have a brain of my own. i don't know about your friends but mine would never try to TELL my what to think, just inform me and they trust me to make up my own mind.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 06:08 PM

Just in case you forgot what you said, Ralph..it's here.

"...By all means, remove your children from the system if you so wish. Your choice. We wouldn't dream of doing such a stupid thing.
I suppose Universities are out of the question too?
Is that why you are a shop assistant?..."


I'll leave you to explain exactly what you meant by the 'shop assistant' bit.

I would however, point out to you that I'm damn LUCKY to have ANY job at all, because people are piss poor down here in Torquay. There are NO jobs, and if some do come up, then there are dozens of people going for every single one. People are struggling, REALLY struggling.

Your jobs do not interest me.

This thread is not about anyone's jobs. It is about education and the madness of what is happening inside The System which is putting appalling pressure on teachers, parents and most importantly, children.

I don't give a fig about you, or about any of your buddies who are the usual gang, although they've now roped in jeddy as well, which is a shame because we did used to be quite friendly...but that is her choice and her responsibility.

Richard, do you know something? You are so starting to sound like that person on Facebook, the one who makes double pages of folks in here, then puts unpleasant comments on about them.

I'd have thought, what with you knowing all about those pages, that you'd have decided to never get like him. Hey ho. Again, it's your choice.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 05:52 PM

Now of course I am forbidden to address teacher's pet, or to discuss her, but I can I hope discuss song lyrics.

"Who put the bomp in the bomp-she-bomp-she-bomp
Who put the dim in the dit-de-dit-de dim"?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:54 PM

Just to add a dose of reality: I would point out that neither of the women in tonight's episode of Lark Rise actually ended up as the teacher - neither was qualified. The school board duly brought in a properly qualified teacher at the end of the episode.

And yes, it was a work of fiction. If all teachers ever had to do was tell ghost stories and make puppets, as the village mother did in Lark Rise, their jobs would be far less demanding.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:34 PM

Emma B
I doff my cap to you. Very interesting and informative.
I never read the original diaries, maybe I will now.
Knowledge is strength after all.
Bob Coppers "Song for every season" is worth a glance if you can find a copy. Also Packie Byrnes "Songs of a Donegal Man" is prety good too.
Dave Eyre might be able to help.

So nice that we can put this thread to bed on a harmonious note, without interruption!
Good Night
Raplhie.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:27 PM

Er Lizzie...
Confused now.
I've worked in many a shop...Yes, Yes, Yes....Have done bins too.
Therefore that makes ME, better than ME?
Are we moving into the realms of Quantum physics, where a particle can exist in various states simultaneously?
Ralph
(When do I get the upgrade to the Moaning Minnie status...rather be that than just a Snob.)
Is it something to do with Farmville?

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:25 PM

'Lark Rise is fiction.'

Well Ralphie as has been mentioned in another thread the TV version certainly is!

However the book of memoirs written by Flora Thompson , a slip of a girl working in a village post office having left school at 13, was not

'In Lark Rise, Over to Candleford and Candleford Green, Flora describes her childhood in the impoverished farming community of Juniper Hill in the remote corner where Oxfordshire, Northamptonshire and Buckinghamshire meet.

She writes with such warmth, freshness and unsentimental clarity that you can smell the bread baking in cottage kitchens and hear the laughter of children playing by the brook.

BUT you can also smell the stink of privies and feel the pangs of near-constant hunger, for this is no misty-eyed account of a lost rural paradise.
Life was harsh, deprived and primitive. It was common for a family of 10 to live in a two-bedroom cottage with no running water

Then, virtually all the men worked on farms for a mere 10 shillings a week, which pauperised them and their families.
They ate what they could grow in gardens and allotments, keeping a pig and hens for meat.

"Poverty's no disgrace, but 'tis a great inconvenience" was a favourite saying that occurs frequently in the book.'

From 'Literary landscapes'

There are more objective archive records from Thatcham, another rural community in Berkshire during the same period as the Larkrise memoirs

The Newbury Weekly News correspondent reported:
"A pitiful wail reaches me from Ashmore Green where many men with large families are out of work, some of whom have been making a tour round (to find work) but without result. Though the people hear of soup being given away in this parish (Thatcham), none of it reaches the hamlet; in fact, a humorist friend says, they are worse off than their neighbours, who get Cold Ash daily; the Ashmore Green people get the cold shoulder, and that over the left", (N.W.N., 8.1.1891). Although a good deal of charity was being distributed, many people still suffered unnoticed through no fault of their own.


Life in Thatcham at the end of the nineteenth-century was still hard, and there were people in the twentieth-century who could look back and remember the village in the 1890s.
One of these people was George Rutter, who wrote a series of articles for the Newbury Weekly News in the 1950s; he remembered the hard times:
"Many are old enough to recall the poverty, distress end malnutrition . . .", he wrote, "so obvious to philanthropic minds that efforts were made to feed and clothe the more necessitous cases. There are memories of soup kitchens and food canteens. . .".

Rutter describes the lives of the inhabitants of the village in the 1890s.
The women of Thatcham ". . . were hard-working and self-sacrificing, knowing how to provide meals for many stomachs with but a few pence, scrupulously clean and never having any leisure from this full-time job of chores, cooking and mending...
The public house was an additional headache to many women of that day. Beer was cheap but even so money for it could be ill-afforded out of the house-hold budget . . .".

For others life was even harder: "There was also a weekly queue in the Broadway, rather a sad one, a gathering of the old and poor, who waited outside the registrar-cum-relieving officer's home on Friday mornings, in all weathers, for the weekly dole of a shilling and perhaps an order for bread".

Extracted from Thatcham Historical Society

Not what people want to sit down and 'escape' with on Sunday evening

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:16 PM

David you are a vey naughty boy ! Lol!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 04:02 PM

Excuse me

Aaaaaaaaaagggggggggghhhhh!

Thank you. I feel better now.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:49 PM

Lark Rise is fiction.
My story, which you chose to ignore, was fact.
Have you ever been the unwitting cause of someones suicide because of the circumstances of your job?
Pleased to note that you are chuckling. I'm not.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:39 PM

No, Ralph, you were demeaning to people who work in shops.

That is why I called you a snob. You are actually far worse than that, patronising comes to mind.

How DARE you assume that you are better than anyone else? How DARE you assume that those who work in shops are not worthy for you to wipe your boots on?????

I was taught by my Father that I am better that no man and no man is better than me.

I suggest you adhere to his outlook and get off that high horse of yours, before you fall off.



Perhaps, jeddy, you have a story where Miss Sweetheart is really Miss Whiplash?

I know a GREAT song about Miss Whiplash!! Where's ALAN? Someone send for Alan and we'll sing a few rousing choruses together...

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:34 PM

Sorry, you've lost me. What was 'sickening' about Miss Sweetheart, jeddy?

It's interesting ain't it, because as I write this 'Lark Rise to Candleford' is on the TV. The story this week is about a teacher who left the village school, because of the way the children were acting up. One of the village mothers stepped in to help out. She was ousted, albeit kindly, by another woman from the town, who deemed herself to be 'a teacher'.

Of course, she was total crap at the job and the children gave her a hard time. And so, the mother stepped back in, told the kids stories, educated them in the way she knew they'd understand, brought in the things she knew they'd listen to, want to learn about...

Well, well, well, well, well. :0)


Ralph, you being a former BBC employee, I should imagine you'd want to take this terrible atrocity up with the BBC and producers of Larkrise, because hell's bells, for them to dare to infer that a mere woman of the village...a MOTHER, to boot, would have the brainpower and the children skills to make a better teacher than the 'official' one, needs to be dealt with ASAP.

Sorry, I'm chuckling as I write this. Ha! Lark Rise couldn't have come at a better time, really, could it.

OK, you lot, back to your HATE Registers, where you can fill my words all in and send them to the Headmaster as fast as you can.

;0)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:34 PM

Agree Jeddy.
Hence my little spat above. Mea Culpa to any who might have beeen offended by my musings (Except one of course!)
I always remember my father explaining to me that the reasons the Nazis did so well, was that nobody stood up to them (either by fear or ignorance).
You could apply that to the BNP too.
Peace Ralph

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:18 PM

agreed david, although after the 'rape' thread it doesn't suprise me, it shocks me!! i thought things couldn't get much worse. just goes to show how off my thinking is.

just so you all know the miss sweetheart i was referring to wasn't the one in the story, i didn't get that far! well.... i read her name once.

i wish there was some things i could let ride when they sicken me
but better me say something than people think i agree by silence.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:06 PM

BTW - I case of doubt the posting I refer to was at 6:14AM.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:02 PM

And before you jump down my throat again Lizzie, The sentence that reads

"In the main it's caused by lack of proper schooling and feckless parents"
Please delete "of proper schooling and"
(Wish this site had an edit function)
It should read.
"In the main it's caused by feckless parents"

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 03:00 PM

I know it is frowned upon to comment on a certain persons rants but I am now calm enough now to mention some of the personal attacks that have been going on here. Unlike the way I felt a few hours ago. There was a post a few hours back that literaly made me feel sick. It was the vilest and most underhand thing I have seen on any forum ever. I have already PM'd the management about to ask them to delete the posting. I think now though that it would be better to leave it on show to see what depths some people can sink to.

Goodnight and hoping to never have to witness these sick ravings again.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:56 PM

I knew it was a mistake. But I'll add "being a snob" to all the other insults that come hurtling through the ether.
Getting quite a list now!
Haven't had the gratuitous sarcasm that others have had to put up with....yet. No doubt it will be on it's way.
I'm not going to go down that line of "my job is more miserable than yours"
.....Actually I will.

1972
First job, working as a supplementary benefits officer for the DHSS in London.(known to the Red Tops as "Sex Spies"..which was nice)
I was means testing an unemployed chap. Unhappily he was just over the threshold for benefits.
He went very quiet for a few seconds. I said "sorry, but those are the rules"
He thanked me kindly, walked to the window and stepped out.....4 floors up...
He had two kids.
Satisfied?

Emma has quite lucidly pointed out how children were treated 100 plus years ago.
I know the Patience Kershaw story, and am grateful (if that is the word) to have been pointed towards the other two sad cases. (and I'm sure that there were thousands of others in the 19th century and before.)
Child exploitation was rife before the early 20th century. Women were chattels, until the suffragette movement got them the vote.
And it took until after the second world war to form what is now known as the NHS.
And you squeal about the temerity of teachers to perform their "Duty of Care" by keeping an eye on your little darlings during school hours. And that you can do it better??? With no traiing???
Words fail me.
Lizzie welcome to the 21st century. Take those rose-tinted spectacles off, and see all the gun and knife crime around you. Who caysed it?....Teachers? They haven't got bloody time to show kids how to roll a spliff, take crack cocaine, not to mention the techniques of murdering people.
No, In the main its caused by lack of proper schooling and feckless parents, who either can't, or don't want to care.

I would suggest that you spend a week watching the Jeremy Kyle show. That is broken Britain. Not...Social Services or the Teaching profession.
You profess to want to change the world. Well...Go on then...But leave us decent intelligent people alone and start ranting at ITV (or whatever damn channel it's on)

When you are sitting in your nice warm National Trustshop tommorow, selling mugs to tourists. Remember Patience Kershaw, and the others.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:23 PM

Hurriers coal trappers and thrusters

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:14 PM

"Home Education is far from 'stupid', but is a very natural way of learning and it's the way people learned for generations, even if they couldn't read or write. They learned to be farmers, farriers, blacksmiths, taught by their fathers, or mothers..or housekeepers"

What children learned to do the 'natural way' before compulsory education -


No. 116. — Sarah Gooder, aged 8 years.

I'm a trapper in the Gawber pit. It does not tire me, but I have to trap without a light and I'm scared.
I go at four and sometimes half past three in the morning, and come out at five and half past.
I never go to sleep. Sometimes I sing when I've light, but not in the dark; I dare not sing then.
I don't like being in the pit. I am very sleepy when I go sometimes in the morning. I go to Sunday-schools and read Reading made Easy. She knows her letters, and can read little words. They teach me to pray. She repeated the Lord's Prayer, not very perfectly, and ran on with the following addition:--"God bless my father and mother, and sister and brother, uncles and aunts and cousins, and everybody else, and God bless me and make me a good servant. Amen." I have heard tell of Jesus many a time. I don't know why he came on earth, I'm sure, and I don't know why he died, but he had stones for his head to rest on.
I would like to be at school far better than in the pit.

No. 72 — Mary Barrett, aged 14. June 15.

I have worked down in pit five years; father is working in next pit; I have 12 brothers and sisters — all of them but one live at home; they weave, and wind, and hurry, and one is a counter, one of them can read, none of the rest can, or write; they never went to day-school, but three of them go to Sunday-school; I hurry for my brother John, and come down at seven o'clock about; I go up at six, sometimes seven;
I do not like working in pit, but I am obliged to get a living; I work always without stockings, or shoes, or trousers; I wear nothing but my chemise;
I have to go up to the headings with the men; they are all naked there; I am got well used to that, and don't care now much about it; I was afraid at first, and did not like it; they never behave rudely to me;
I cannot read or write.

No. 26. — Patience Kershaw, aged 17, May 15. *

My father has been dead about a year; my mother is living and has ten children, five lads and five lasses; the oldest is about thirty, the youngest is four; three lasses go to mill; all the lads are colliers, two getters and three hurriers; one lives at home and does nothing; mother does nought but look after home.
All my sisters have been hurriers, but three went to the mill. Alice went because her legs swelled from hurrying in cold water when she was hot.

I never went to day-school; I go to Sunday-school, but I cannot read or write; I go to pit at five o'clock in the morning and come out at five in the evening; I get my breakfast of porridge and milk first; I take my dinner with me, a cake, and eat it as I go; I do not stop or rest any time for the purpose; I get nothing else until I get home, and then have potatoes and meat, not every day meat.
I hurry in the clothes I have now got on, trousers and ragged jacket; the bald place upon my head is made by thrusting the corves; my legs have never swelled, but sisters' did when they went to mill; I hurry the corves a mile and more under ground and back; they weigh 300 cwt.; I hurry 11 a-day;
I wear a belt and chain at the workings, to get the corves out; the getters that I work for are naked except their caps; they pull off all their clothes; I see them at work when I go up; sometimes they beat me, if I am not quick enough, with their hands; they strike me upon my back;
the boys take liberties with me sometimes they pull me about; I am the only girl in the pit; there are about 20 boys and 15 men; all the men are naked; I would rather work in mill than in coal-pit.

This girl is an ignorant, filthy, ragged, and deplorable-looking object, and such an one as the uncivilized natives of the prairies would be shocked to look upon.

*
The Unthanks perform The Testimony of Patience Kershaw


Let's all go back to The Good Old Days!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 01:16 PM

First of all, Ralph, I don't look down on anyone who works in a shop, or cleans toilets or works on the roads.

Obviously, you do.

Arrogance.


Secondly, if my children wanted to go to university, they are free to do so. My daughter is doing an Open University degree, whilst working at the same time, two jobs, both of which you'd sneer at,I've no doubt, but she sees them as a means to an end. She has no debts and money in the bank.

The vast majority of teachers in this country are snowed under with paperwork already, this will just be yet more. It is insanity.

Home Education is far from 'stupid', but is a very natural way of learning and it's the way people learned for generations, even if they couldn't read or write. They learned to be farmers, farriers, blacksmiths, taught by their fathers, or mothers..or housekeepers..

The human race DID exist long before school was ever invented, you know.

Teachers themselves are turning to Education Otherwise, and other Home Ed groups to try to learn what they do so RIGHT that school is doing so wrong.

I have, and always will, back excellent, brilliant, compassionate, caring teachers. I have no time for the rest. They do far more damage than good and shouldn't even have the job in the first place.

You are free to do whatever you so choose with your children, Ralph. I recognise that fact and would not sneer at you for doing it.


Oh..and for your information, I did used to clean toilets too, when I was in Sidmouth, looking after three little old ladies.

Why am I a shop assitant? Well, because I like working with the public, always have done..and because I have no problem with BEING a shop assistant in the first place, be it for The National Trust, a chemist or who I work for at present. I've been the Harley St. secretary, worked with Princes, Rulers, Princesses, Politiicans, Actors, the Paul McCartneys etc....and I'm quite happy working in a shop.....It also fits in with me being a carer and with home education too.

It's a big sacrifice but one that nearly all Home Ed families feel a worthy thing to do.


And now, I'll leave you to go back to your Edukashon System Sneering Down upon on other people you deem lesser beings than yourself...

Perhaps Emma could find me a more insulting word than Clutterbuck (not that I knew it was an insulting word, much less...a word!)


You really are the most terribly arrogant snob, aintcha!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:36 PM

Well, all I can say is that my partner is a primary school techer, and so are lots of our friends.
Sorry, No sign of boiling children alive as yet.
C'mon Lizzie...Name me one teacher/head teacher who would have the time to fill in these ledgers of crime that children apparently commit.
They're too busy teaching. I find most of your comments intrinsically insulting to the vast majority of teachers in this country.
By all means, remove your children from the system if you so wish. Your choice. We wouldn't dream of doing such a stupid thing.
I suppose Universities are out of the question too?
Is that why you are a shop assistant?
(Memo to self...Don't get dragged in again....Just don't!)

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:27 PM

Oh and jade, I suggest you look up the life story of Roald Dahl, because in there you'll find how terribly bullied he was at school, by his teachers.

The day that schools replace their 'soon to have' HATE Registers, with LOVE Registers will be the day that Edukashon System really starts to care about the children within its walls.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 12:14 PM

Joy Adamson, wow, not thought of her in a very long time. Nope, my words on FREE didn't come from Elsa, or Elsie...and it's strange, that if you know Roald Dahl so well you would even consider that Miss Sweetheart was me.

As for jade, yes, Miss Sweetheart IS a Sweetheart, that's the whole point. Because she cares for her children, respects them and sees them as whole people rather than means to fill the tick boxes in Examland, her pupils think the world of her. And she saw the truth in Jimmy James. Miss B saw only what she wanted to see and that was darkness and suspicion.

Clutterbuck was a name that just whizzed into my head, actually. I've never heard of that slang meaning. Mine came from the clutter on my desk, surrounding the screen here. I simply think of things on the spur of the moment, Emma. Surely you must appreciate that my Simple Mind does not contain the capacity to be so devious as you make out? You can't have it both ways.

Poxicat, a very wise and wonderful teacher once said to me that Education starts AFTER students have finally been able to walk away from school, not whilst they're tied into it.

Look up John Gatto and read what he says about education, another teacher of over 30 years standing, an award winning teacher too.

A child can learn far more on a holiday than sat on a chair having to study something they have absolutely no interest in.


If Hate Registers are brought in, then it will be the end of the Education system as we know it, because the whole idea is so utterly sick that it proves what kind of weird individuals are in charge of the nation's children.

Would I EVER let my kids go to be around anyone who had a Hate Register to hand, who recorded what 5 year olds were saying, then kept those words for reference for the next 13 years, to harp back to?   Are you MAD????? Of course I bloody wouldn't! And I'd hope that you wouldn't either, because YOUR children are just as capable of coming out with the new buzz word or summat they heard on TV last night, as anyone else's.

We truly have now reach Orwell's 1984, yet you folks seem happy with that situation.

??????????????????????????


And then, of course, there was The Disappearance Register:

"People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word."
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 1


Miss B's favourite quote was this....

"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 3

...because she knew, that with her Hate Register held firmly in her hand, she controlled not only Jimmy James past, but also his future..


Big Brother is watching not just you, but your children.

Be afraid.
Be very afraid.

Then..send them off to school with their little lunch boxes and pray they don't say anything they shouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: GUEST,Raphie
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 09:46 AM

Poxicat......Errrrrm.....Looks like it!

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 08:26 AM

'Miss Sweetheart ain't me, Clutterbuck...she's a relative of Miss Honey, from Roald Dahl's 'Matilda'.

'Cluuterbuck'! what a quaint slang term for a 'female mammals reproductive organ'; maybe you should just say what you really mean? :)

Strange as it may seem to you, as you have such an intractable opinion of my inability to think outside 'state regulations', I recognize a singularly bad pastiche of a well known chidrens book when I see it and also the use of Joy Adamsons titles for her books describing her experiences in Kenya.

The next 'tale' - from 'The Borrowers'?

Thank you

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 08:05 AM

'and look up sites which apparently now describe my peysonality'

On the contrary - I studied Psychology at University and I am describing a classic mechanism -

As I've seen quoted elsewhere

'If the shoe fits....'

Subject: RE: BS: £800 fine for low school attendance
From: jeddy
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:59 AM

i know who i am talking about when i said elsie.. :)

whats the point of your nasty little stories? i got halfway through the last one before i started to feel sick and couldn't finish it.

'miss sweetheart' sounds like she is doing a wonderful job to me. she is teaching children to be independant, to have their own mind. and to rationalise. also teaching them to regconise their self worth.
isn't that something that you were saying we should all be doing not so long back?