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BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Riginslinger 12 Sep 09 - 02:16 PM
Greg F. 12 Sep 09 - 01:23 PM
Bill D 12 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM
Sawzaw 12 Sep 09 - 11:56 AM
CarolC 12 Sep 09 - 11:13 AM
Sawzaw 12 Sep 09 - 11:07 AM
Greg F. 12 Sep 09 - 09:26 AM
Riginslinger 12 Sep 09 - 08:49 AM
CarolC 12 Sep 09 - 04:57 AM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 11:23 PM
Peace 11 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 11:15 PM
Peace 11 Sep 09 - 11:11 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 10:47 PM
Riginslinger 11 Sep 09 - 09:57 PM
Riginslinger 11 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM
Bill D 11 Sep 09 - 09:44 PM
Greg F. 11 Sep 09 - 09:31 PM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 07:50 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 07:26 PM
artbrooks 11 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 06:45 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 06:40 PM
Bill D 11 Sep 09 - 01:48 PM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 11:39 AM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 11:36 AM
Riginslinger 11 Sep 09 - 07:47 AM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 01:08 AM
fumblefingers 10 Sep 09 - 11:26 PM
Riginslinger 10 Sep 09 - 10:01 PM
Donuel 10 Sep 09 - 09:59 PM
Riginslinger 10 Sep 09 - 09:50 PM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 10:22 PM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 03:50 PM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 03:43 PM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 02:06 PM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 10:49 AM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 09:32 AM
artbrooks 15 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 08:39 AM
artbrooks 15 Nov 08 - 08:21 AM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 07:46 AM
CarolC 14 Nov 08 - 09:45 PM
Riginslinger 14 Nov 08 - 09:28 PM
CarolC 14 Nov 08 - 09:13 PM
Riginslinger 14 Nov 08 - 08:53 PM
CarolC 14 Nov 08 - 09:31 AM
Joe Offer 14 Nov 08 - 04:35 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 02:16 PM

"Republicans are not in a position to point fingers at anyone for either engaging in Gay sex, or for paying for any kind of sex."

             No, but when it's "sex" is sticks to the Republicans more, and when it's "crime" it sticks to the Democrats. It seems to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 01:23 PM

Suggested reading:

Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free by Charles P. Pierce. 2009.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM

Someone is sure going to a lot of work 'researching' this & other stories about flaws in people who happen to be associated with certain groups.

If one likes that sort of research, and is willing to both dig AND design 'stings', it is possible to create salacious and disreputable scenarios about almost any groups....from the College of Cardinals to the Republican National Committee to the Boy Scouts.

It takes a lot more to actually show that a group as a whole is corrupt or seriously flawed1, but these days they aren't trying to get evidence that would stand serious scrutiny....they only want headlines where they can link one or two examples in the same paragraph, then make insinuations that will be believed by those who want ANY excuse to keep pressure on group "X".

It is nasty politics, but it often does what they want.




1(well, except in the case of the Republican National Committee, maybe...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 11:56 AM

So Whom do you claim is pointing a finger at whom?

NYT:

Two prominent national nonprofit groups are reeling from public disclosures that large sums of money were misappropriated in unrelated incidents by an employee and a former employee. The groups, Acorn, one of the country's largest community organizing groups, and the Points of Light Institute, which works to encourage civic activism and volunteering, have dealt with the problems in very different ways.

Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. After Points of Light noticed financial irregularities in early June, it took less than a month for management to alert federal prosecutors, although group officials say they have no clear idea yet what the financial impact may be. A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization's founder, Wade Rathke.

The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group's board members and not to alert law enforcement. Dale Rathke remained on Acorn's payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.

"We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house," said Maude Hurd, president of Acorn. "It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right." The amount Dale Rathke embezzled, $948,607.50, was carried as a loan on the books of Citizens Consulting Inc., which provides bookkeeping, accounting and other financial management services to Acorn and many of its affiliated entities.

Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled in exchange for confidentiality.

Wade Rathke stepped down as Acorn's chief organizer on June 2, the same day his brother left, but he remains chief organizer for Acorn International L.L.C.

He said the decision to keep the matter secret was not made to protect his brother but because word of the embezzlement would have put a "weapon" into the hands of enemies of Acorn, a liberal group that is a frequent target of conservatives who object to its often strident advocacy on behalf of low- and moderate-income families and workers.

Wade Rathke said he learned of the problem when an employee of Citizens Consulting alerted him about suspicious credit card transactions. An internal investigation uncovered inappropriate charges on the cards that led back to his brother. Clearly, this was an uncomfortable, conflicting and humiliating situation as far as my family and I were concerned," he said, "and so the real decisions on how to handle it had to be made by others."

The executive director of New York Acorn, Bertha Lewis, who has been named director of an interim management committee set up to run the national group's day-to-day operations, said Dale Rathke was paid about $38,000 a year but that none of that money was used to pay back Acorn.

Instead, she said, the Rathke family has paid Acorn $30,000 a year in restitution since 2001, or a total of $210,000.

A donor has offered to give Acorn the rest of what the Rathkes owe, and an agreement to that effect should be finalized in coming days, Ms. Lewis said.

"Now that this is under our watch, we are putting financial auditors in place, legal counsel in place, a strong management team in place to make sure this organization moves forward for another 38 years," she said. "I will not allow and the board will not allow something like this to happen again."

But the fact that most of the handful of people who did not disclose the fraud when they learned of it eight years ago still work for Acorn or its affiliates concerns many of the group's financial supporters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 11:13 AM

Republicans are not in a position to point fingers at anyone for either engaging in Gay sex, or for paying for any kind of sex.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 11:07 AM

The Washington Post:

..Although Barney Frank [avid defender of Acorn] and Gobie differ in some details of their relationship, they agree on the story line. They met on April Fool's Day 1985. The representative answered a classified ad in the Washington Blade, the local gay weekly. "Exceptionally good-looking, personable, muscular athlete is available. Hot bottom plus large endowment equals a good time."

Then in his third term, the 45-year-old representative had not yet stated his homosexuality publicly. He paid Gobie $80 in cash for sex.

Gobie, then 28, was one of many young men "freelancing" in male prostitution. Gobie said he was born in Boston and grew up in a military family. He has felony convictions for possession of cocaine, oral sodomy and production of obscene items involving a juvenile.

Gobie and Frank say they became more friends than sexual partners. Gobie says he attended a bill-signing at the White House, and helped coach and played left field for Frank's team in the Congressional Softball League. "I was the star player," Gobie said.

Frank began to help Gobie financially, paying his attorney and court-ordered psychiatrist. The House member also said he hired Gobie as a personal aide, housekeeper and driver, but Gobie said that was a "cover story" concocted for probation officers.

In late 1985, Gobie says, he began to use Frank's apartment and two other locations for prostitution. Frank knew about the prostitution all along, but it was never explicitly discussed, Gobie says.

"He knew exactly what I was doing," Gobie said. "It was pretty obvious. If he had to come home early {from work}, he would call home to be sure the coast was clear . . . . He was living vicariously through me. He said it was kind of a thrill, and if he had been 20 years younger he might be doing the same thing."

Frank denies that he knew, saying he learned from his landlord and kicked Gobie out in August 1987. Gobie supports this part of Frank's story.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 09:26 AM

Yo, Sawz!

You want to rant about whorehouses & prostitution & all that, check into the doings at the C Street House of Rep. Chip Pickering, Sen. John Ensign, & Tim & David Coe of "The Family".

There's something to get upset about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 08:49 AM

Probably the people who originally founded ACORN had all the best of intentions. But the organization seems to be so loosely constructed that anybody and everybody can just drift in and out at will. Some of these players are bound to be bad actors, working for themselves and not for the organization.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 04:57 AM

But if the people making the videos are editing them to falsely portray the actions of the ACORN workers, then it really doesn't matter how many offices they appear to show this kind of activity. And we don't know yet whether or not that is what they did. There has been obvious editing and there are areas where the film goes black. So far I have not seen any legitimate explanation for this, and editing a film of this sort does make it look suspicious.

Until we know what editing was done and how faithful the end result was to what actually happened, we won't know whether or not anyone did anything illegal. If the videos couldn't stand up in a court of law, they also shouldn't stand up in the court of public opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:23 PM

For all the Acornistas:

Liens on ACORN in New Orleans


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM

Sorry. That should have read "11 workers".


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:15 PM

Funny thing that this article in the Baltimore Sun does not mention Fox News or Hannity.

ACORN, prostitution and tax evasion

Want to confirm all the negative impressions you may have gotten about ACORN from its many critics? Watch this video.

Yes, taped with a hidden camera, two Baltimore ACORN workers give advice to a man and a woman identifying themselves as a pimp and a prostitute on how to evade the authorities and cheat on their taxes, including how to claim 13 underage El Salvadoran sex slaves as dependents. At no point in the video do the ACORN workers bat an eyelash or give any impression that they find this unusual.

Once the video became public, ACORN promptly fired the two workers, though it's hard to know how seriously to take the organization's reaction. Baltimore ACORN board chairman Sonja Merchant-Jones told WJZ-TV that "We've investigated and we found nothing that they did to be illegal. Absolutely zero." Really? Advising someone to claim girls trafficked into the country illegally as sex workers as dependents on her tax returns?

At the end of the day, though, what does this prove? Certainly that these two ACORN workers displayed astonishing stupidity. But does it show that ACORN is as lawless as its critics contend? It's important to note that the two filmmakers, Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe, were turned away when they tried the same stunt in other cities. If they wanted to prove something about the organization as a whole, they might have tried a less salacious scenario. Of course, that would have been much less likely to rocket them to YouTube and Fox News stardom.

UPDATE: There's a second video out now of the same pair doing the same thing at the Washington ACORN office. In this case, the workers suggest a way that Ms. Giles could set up a phony business to conceal the nature of her earnings.

SECOND UPDATE: For those of you criticizing me for defending ACORN here, I'd like to say the existence of the second video has erased what little benefit of the doubt I was willing to extend before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:11 PM

The two workers in Florida were found and turned in by ACORN itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:47 PM

Keep beating the shit out of those straw men. That way you won't have to admit to the corruption within Acorn.

AP:
LAS VEGAS — A former Las Vegas director for a political advocacy group accused of illegally paying canvassers to register voters during last year's presidential campaign has pleaded guilty to a reduced charge and agreed to testify against the group and another employee.

Christopher Edwards pleaded guilty this week to two gross misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit the crime of compensation for registration of voters. He agreed to testify against the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, known as ACORN, and Amy Busefink, a former regional voter registration director.

The case threatens the group's ability to operate in Nevada, with the possibility that the group could have its status as a nonprofit corporation revoked, said Conrad Hafen, chief deputy attorney general for Nevada.

Hafen's said Edwards' testimony strengthens the state's case against ACORN and Busefink.

"It adds to the evidence that we already have," Hafen said Wednesday. "It makes a strong case that much stronger."

Busefink's lawyer, Kevin Stolworthy, said she plans to fight the charges. A lawyer for ACORN did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment from The Associated Press.

ACORN spokesman Brian Kettenring called the plea deal a "desperate attempt to get publicity and grab headlines."

"The prosecution is clearly willing to cut a deal with an admitted criminal," Kettenring said. "Shame on them."

Prosecutors said in court documents that Edwards, Busefink and ACORN created a bonus incentive program that paid canvassers an extra $5 per shift if they turned in at least 21 voter registration cards at the end of the day. Prosecutors said violates state laws that prevent a system that pays workers based on the number of registrations they turn in.

Stolworthy said Busefink, now living in Seminole, Fla., told Edwards not to use the so-called "blackjack" plan but he did anyway.

"When she found out about it she told him to stop," Stolworthy said. "This guy was the instigator of this and the person who dreamed it up and they're giving him a break to go after others who told him not to do it."

Edwards is scheduled to be sentenced Nov. 17. Under the plea deal, prosecutors are recommending that he receive informal probation, pay a $500 fine and perform 16 hours of community service.

The case is the result of an investigation that began last year into the group that works to get low-income people to vote.

In October, the secretary of state's office raided an ACORN office in Las Vegas after complaints surfaced that the group was turning in bogus voter registration forms. Secretary of State Ross Miller said at the time that some of the registrations included forms for football stars Tony Romo, Terrell Owens and the Dallas Cowboys starting lineup.

ACORN officials at the time said they separated and identified registrations that they thought were fraudulent when they turned them into the Clark County registrar. The group said the law prevented them from withholding registrations they thought were fake.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5isR8VrIHeni2GcKFAiy0OA1WG5kAD9A6AUB00


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Subject: RE: BS: Census Rolls Acorn Under da Bus
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:57 PM

They should not have been involved in the census to begin with. They've proven they can't be trusted from the time of the election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM

Well, Hannity has found a second office to fall for it, and now he's determined to cut off all federal funding for ACORN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:44 PM

One ACORN office reported the attempt to police...and despite what SAWZAW says, no "office" cooperated, only a couple of stupid lower level employees.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:31 PM

If ya put the veracity of the Associated Press up against that of Faux, 'scuse me, FOX news, well..............


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:50 PM

We don't know that yet. We have yet to see the whole tape.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:26 PM

"a Fox sting" Bullshit


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Well, the AP news report says that a Fox sting got 2 employees in one office to give tax advice to an alleged pimp and prostitute.   That would be one incident in one of Acorn's 1200 chapters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:45 PM

Good news for all Acorn lovers:

Only 2 of 7 Acorn offices gave advice on how to operate a whorehouse with underage girls and how to avoid paying income taxes.


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Subject: BS: Census Rolls Acorn Under da Bus
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:40 PM

After the revelation of a second Acorn office that gives advice on running whorehouses with underage girls and income tax evasion, The Census Bureau has severed all ties.

Harrumph.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jIhAM0M_KmmLaHqhwTafQag4nNdQD9ALCUJO0
    Note that threads were combined, since there already was an active Acorn thread.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:48 PM

"...video-tape of an ACORN officials..."

actually, they weren't "officials", they were minor employees who were fired immediately. It's sad that people will stoop to such sleazy games, but it's even sadder that critics will USE such examples to attempt to tarnish the entire organization.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:39 AM

Actually, only working once is indicative of nothing at all.

If they try to pull it on many other offices with no success, and they succeed in only one location, what that means is that it's not a problem with ACORN, but rather a problem with two people employed by ACORN. Many companies and agencies that are good companies and agencies have people in them who do bad things that are not indicative of the legitimacy or the lack of it of those companies and agencies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:36 AM

Yes, and it may not have even worked that many times. We'll see when they release the whole tape. And if they don't, we'll know that their lack of success led them to fake it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:47 AM

It probably only has to work once!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:08 AM

According to the report I just now read, the tape was edited and goes black in some areas. The report said that ACORN's spokesman isn't going to accept it as evidence of anything until he sees the whole tape.

He also said that these two FOX employees had tried to pull this same scam at other ACORN offices and failed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: fumblefingers
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:26 PM

Why don't we stay on the subject--ACORN


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:01 PM

Yes, please, use it on religious evangelists. The sooner we could get rid of those slime-balls the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:59 PM

Indeed ACORN has criminal members. SOme which have aided or abbetted criminal activity and some who actively broken a law or laws.

Now lets use the same fine tooth comb on the military.

Or religious eveangelists.

Or you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:50 PM

So now I see that Sean Hannity has video-tape of an ACORN officials helping some people set up a prostitution ring for underaged girls for El Salvador. Subsequently, ACORN fires the officials involved. Hannity says this is the end of ACORN.

               Aside from that, it kind of gives a bad name to community organizing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:22 PM

Okay, Carol. I'll take your word for it, but I'll watch the development of future ACORN funding with interest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 03:50 PM

It's not partisan out of the gate. The effect of their work may benefit Democrats more than Republicans, but that's more because of the way Republicans govern than because of any bias on the part of ACORN. ACORN works to help people in moderate to low income areas, and because of the basic philosophy of the Republican Party, moderate to low income people are almost always hurt when Republicans are in office. For this reason, people in those income groups tend to vote for Democrats (but not all of them do by any stretch of the imagination).

ACORN is not partisan. It is oriented to income levels and not political affiliations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 03:43 PM

That's the problem, ACORN's work is partisan out of the gate. McCain was doing his civic duty as a sitting senator to make the ACORN efforts known to the public.

                      In any event, nothing more will probably come of it unless ACORN comes back to the public trough for more money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 02:06 PM

That's where we disagree. McCain was trying to undermine ACORN's ability to do its work during a critical time in an election cycle. ACORN came to their own defense. That's not the same as campaigning against a candidate. ACORN should continue to receive whatever public funds they have received in the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM

Carol - Unless ACORN is found guilty of fraud--with the exception of the folks who are being accused of theft--they didn't do anything illegal. It only comes into play when we are talking about rewarding them with tax payer money to conduct partisan activities. They should never see another dime of tax payer money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:49 AM

Here's the report that ACORN put out in response to John McCain's advertisement which fraudulently accused ACORN of being responsible for the economic meltdown. ACORN wasn't engaging in partisanship when it defended itself from those fraudulent accusations. If McCain doesn't like people defending themselves against his fraudulent accusations, he shouldn't be making them in the first place...

http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=22393&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12384&cHash=c4cb0b9840

http://www.acorn.org/fileadmin/Reports/McCain_Report.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM

The Republican Party, as I have shown already, has always tried to prevent ACORN from registering voters. Because when the majority of the population of this country votes, the Republicans don't do very well, and they know it. They have to try to suppress votes in order to get elected. What they're doing it illegal, and I think the real issue at this point, is to start pressing charges against the Republican operatives who are fraudulently trying to suppress votes, like the ones who, in every presidential election, try to prevent ACORN from registering new voters.

The Republican Party hasn't been sorely used by ACORN. They have been defeated by ACORN. And that's as it should be. ACORN is acting entirely within the law, and the Republicans have been blatantly violating it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 09:32 AM

I think the Republican Party -- of which I an not a member -- feels pretty sorely used by ACORN after this election. I would be very surprised if they didn't try to head off any funding directed towards ACORN. It could be they don't have the numbers in Congress to prevent it.
                  On the other hand, if the Democrats feel strongly enough about it to push funding through, I think ACORN is going to look worse to the general public than it does even now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM

Well, considering that most, if not all, of the allegations originate with the Republican party or points further right; considering that none of these allegations have been verified (although there may certainly be some ACORN employees at fault, many turned in by ACORN itself); and considering that "innocent until proven guilty" is a basic legal concept, I personally see no reason why they should be automatically excluded. Of course, that fact that everyone is entitled to his own opinion is also a basic concept.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:39 AM

The report is dated 10/16 because that's when it happened. There isn't much point in going forward with registration fraud now. The local authorities will simply have to sort out what they have, and they have all the time in the world to do it now. If the election had been closer, I suspect there would be more attention paid to it.

                     What is important now is to discourage any further attempt to generate public money for ACORN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:21 AM

That report is dated October 16th, Riginslinger. It's interesting that it is just about impossible to find any report on the web dated after the election on the investigations into alleged registration fraud by ACORN employees. I wonder if they were all quietly dropped as no longer being important to the complaining parties?


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 07:46 AM

Okay, they released information to the media that somebody else turned into an ad. Still, any standing the had of being nonpartisan goes out the window, and so should their funding. See attached:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/... by: Marcus Baram

    ...McCain accused ACORN of "maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."

Today, the group fired back by releasing a report, "ACORN vs. McCain: The Real Story of the Financial Crisis 1999 to 2008," attacking McCain for his lack of warnings about the impending subprime mortgage crisis last year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:45 PM

No they didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:28 PM

And they ran campaing ads against John McCain with public money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:13 PM

They don't only register Democrats. They register people in other parties, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 08:53 PM

"'...said Pierce. "However, we know we will face attacks in the future from those who are scared that our good work brings power and a voice to our communities."'"


                   The problem is, the good work he talks about is partisan Democrat, and that's all right, but he shouldn't expect any additional funding from public sources.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:31 AM

In 2004, the Republicans tried to suppress votes (a form of election fraud) and cast doubt on the outcome of the election should the Democrat get elected, by doing the same thing to ACORN that they did during this election. This was the result in 2004/5. I expect we will see the same result this time around...


http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/1214-09.htm

'WASHINGTON - December 14 - Today, Project Vote congratulated the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) on the dismissal of the third and final voter registration fraud lawsuit brought against the group in 2004. ACORN, in partnership with Project Vote, ran the largest non-partisan voter outreach program in the 2004 election cycle, registering 1.15 million low-income and minority citizens in 26 states and contacting 2.3 million through Get-Out-the-Vote efforts. In 2004, several politically motivated law firms brought baseless charges of voter registration fraud against ACORN in an effort to inhibit its work to register low-income and minority voters.

"For twenty years, we have worked with ACORN to ensure the voices of low-income and minority Americans are heard at the ballot box," said Holli Holliday, National Director of Project Vote. "We have complete confidence in ACORN's quality control process and are not at all surprised these lawsuits and investigations have collapsed. Today, we celebrate this as a victory for voters."

One year after the contentious 2004 election, it is clear that politically motivated law firms and organizations leveled unfounded allegations of fraud against ACORN with the goal of tarnishing the community group's reputation and inhibiting its work. In recent months, three highly publicized legal challenges brought against ACORN staff have been dismissed or withdrawn for lack of evidence. In Ohio, a lawsuit funded by the conservative Free Enterprise Coalition and litigated by the law firm of Shumaker, Loop and Kendrick collapsed on October 28. Two Florida lawsuits, based solely on claims by convicted felon and ex-ACORN employee Mac Start and litigated by Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler of Fort Lauderdale, were dismissed with prejudice. Stuart admitted to making false statements against ACORN.

"This outcome is vindication for our dedicated staff and volunteers who worked around the clock in the 2004 election to make sure the voices of low-income Americans were heard," said Tamecka Pierce of ACORN. "The conservative groups who leveled false charges should be held accountable – this kind of harassment is clearly designed to intimidate community groups who register people of color."

Further, criminal investigations responding to allegations of voter fraud recently ended in Colorado, Wisconsin, Florida, and Ohio after finding no evidence of wrongdoing by ACORN or any pervasive voter fraud. In Wisconsin, U.S. Attorney Steve Biskupic, a Republican appointed by President Bush in 2004, concluded, "We don't see a massive conspiracy to alter the election in Milwaukee, one way or another." In Ohio, a year-long federal, state, and local investigation ended with no federal indictments. "Our investigation is closed. No one was charged…the federal investigation is closed," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Edwards in Cleveland.

ACORN uses a comprehensive quality control program developed by Project Vote. Separate quality control staff visually review the hundreds of collected voter registration applications to identify incomplete or suspicious applications, and then call applicants to verify the information on the applications. Before completed applications are submitted to election officials, they are photocopied (where allowed) and filed in order to create records to assist in the investigation of any concerns. ACORN maintains a zero-tolerance policy against fraud and, by implementing strong quality control procedures, is able to identify and terminate any employee submitting fraudulent registrations.

Project Vote and ACORN's comprehensive voter outreach methodology is regarded as one of the industry's best. In 2004, thousands of volunteers and staff helped register 1.15 million citizens in 26 states, and reached 2.3 million through Get-Out-the-Vote efforts. ACORN and Project Vote staff registered voters at high-traffic locations, such as grocery stores, farmers markets, and concerts, and contacted registered voters with reminders to vote by going door-to-door and calling them on the phone. The results were impressive: Project Vote and ACORN increased turnout by an average of 24% over 2000 turnout in targeted precincts, including an increase of 35% in Pennsylvania (19 points higher than state turnout increase) and 44.7% in Maricopa County, Arizona (12 points higher than the county increase overall).

"We are pleased to put these false accusations behind us and continue our work for voting rights, more affordable housing, better schools, and access to health care," said Pierce. "However, we know we will face attacks in the future from those who are scared that our good work brings power and a voice to our communities."'


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 04:35 AM

There's actually a fairly wide spectrum of opinion about Obama among American bishops. Only the most extreme conservatives would say it was wrong to vote for Obama. While American Catholic bishops are probably 100 percent opposed to abortion, some believe Roe v. Wade is here to stay, and it's time to start reducing the number of abortions by "changing hearts and minds" and by encouraging alternatives to abortion. It's just that the extremists are the ones who get the press coverage.
You will find a good number of Catholic priests and a huge number of nuns who supported Obama. The bishops tend to be more conservative - managers usually are.
Number 6 is correct in saying this:
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Roman Catholics as a whole supported Obama .... they object to the Dem's stand on abortion ... but support their policy in regards to the ending of the war, their stand on immigration, their stand on worker's rights, health care, and the Dems' commitment to the poor, and their stand on the environment etc.
But a fair number of bishops think that abortion trumps all other issues, even though the Republicans haven't ended abortion although they have held the White House for most of the time since Roe v. Wade.

-Joe-


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