Sarah Palin in Coronation Street

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 10:11 PM

No, I'm not going to respond to that. I'm not going to respond to that. I'm not going to respond to...

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:22 PM

The thing about Sarah Palin that I like the least:

In Alaska, when Mayor of Wasilla she queried the librarian if she would ban books. When the librarian said no, Sarah went after her job. Ultimately the librarian moved on. According to various souorces, you don't have to go far to get crosswise with Sarah, and when you do, she goes after your job. Those who take her side argue she's entitled to demand loyalty, but in my book a disagreement is not a lack of loyalty.

In national politics she waged a highly political campaign of mini-quotes and photo-moments, which played to the choir but as time wore on from the Republican convention, less and less to the congregation.

In a campaign season where the ineptitude of the current government combined with the utter cynicism of the republican presidential ticket and the unprecedented economic meltdown, there is only one reason why the vote was at all close.

The national campaign Sarah was a far cry from the Wasilla Sarah that we tolerated up to the national convention.

The thing about Sarah that I like the most:

I was due for surgery the day McCain announced her as his Veep choice. So it quite took my mind off my own troubles and made the day a cheerful one in retrospect.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:09 PM

Eb,

I knew if there was anyone in Mudville who has had these musin's then I woulda been you...

I think we carry some of the same genes...

I was thinking Department of the Interior, myself, which I think would be justice in requiring Ms. Sarah to learn up on some ecological stuff that she missed in school... But I ain't never said she was stupid... Just wrongheaded and I think if she were just challenged that she could wink her way up to speed...lol...

Glad that I ain't the only one who has had these thoughts...

No I can get a good nights sleep... lol..

Beaubear

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:27 PM

When I said the stupid thing, that is... Earlier, I was trying to make a point at the time, and, but...
                   I mean...

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:16 PM

Yes, but I was trying to make a point!

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:13 PM

Just yesterday I got to musing on what reaction the Bushies would have if Obama announced that he had found a place in his Cabinet for Sarah Palin. Such a development would almost be worthwhile if the diehard GOP reacted the way I would expect. *g*

Rig, you personally have said a lot more stupid-sounding phrases than 'Catie Curtis'. Remember?

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:04 PM

"'To have said the Catie Curtis "I'll get back to later on that" after all the lip service she did give was stupid...'"


                   I think that was Katie Couric. Stupid, what?

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 05:43 PM

Good news fir all you Ms Sarah fans out there!!!

Now this ain't bveen confirmed but word on the street is Obama is contemplating creating a Department of Roller Derby just for her...

So, hey, it might very well be Secretary Palin in the near future...

I kind like it... Has a nice ring to it... Plus, the moose will be a lot safer with her outta Alaska...

B~

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 05:36 PM

Even if she could see Russia from her back door to admit it was stupid

To have said the Catie Curtis "I'll get back to later on that" after all the lip service she did give was stupid

To have invoked God's endorsmnet of the US winning in Iraq was stupid

She was not only underinformed, she was arrogrant about those with intellegience, that's pretty stupid

"She only sounds stupid because we've been taught to think that rural American colloquial speech is stupid."

Where did you get your education from Rig? Before you speak for the rest of us become informed yourself

"If she'd been through Harvard's electro-shock-speech-therapy in order to sound like every other candidate, we probably would not think of her as stupid."

Again Rig speak for yourself when sounding stupid don't bring "WE" into your statements, it obivious that you are not in the majority.

Barry

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 04:24 PM

Ringin, in England we wouldn't know rural Alaskan from a Denver venture capitalist, but if someone sounding Inspector Clousseau phones up and claims to be the French President - without preamble - and you believe it.... that's stupid.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 11:47 AM

Unfortunately, the guy who won says he intends to leave the Office of Faith Based Initiatives open. It just shows you have far we've fallen since Carter.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 11:33 AM

Can't argue with that Ebbie.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 10:05 AM

When you know that God is in charge and has chosen you to be His Emissary, you don't need no stinkin' smarts.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:41 AM

Thanks Greg, I love that subtly understated approach.

Thanks Riginslinger you ahve said it all:


"I would agree that she was underinformed. I was very much surprised that the governor of a state--any state--wouldn't be more aware of world events."

Doesn't this simply mean she is ignorant?

And, anyone who puts up for a serious office and is this ignorant is stupid.

The people of America and indeed the world, need someone much better informed with much better judgement.

At present it looks like they chose one.

Best of luck

L in C

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:29 AM

Aside from the fact that she's a vicious, lying, fear-mongering, fundagelical, ignorant demagogue, you mean?

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:18 AM

Amos - I would agree that she was underinformed. I was very much surprised that the governor of a state--any state--wouldn't be more aware of world events. I just don't think she knew what she was getting into. I suspect if she gets into national politics again, and there's every indication that she will, given the Chambliss thing, she will prepare herself to a much greater extent.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:47 AM

She's not particularly stupid, but she is woefully underinformed for what she tried to do, and her rhetorical skills are dubious.


A

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: GUEST,KP
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:44 AM

Thanks Rig
I'd forgotten about the fund-raising disadvantage the Republicans had. So Palin was the 'best choice' in terms of getting the money into the campaign. Fascinatingly logical!
cheers
KP

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:29 AM

KP - Yes, there were a number of qualified Republcan women, but McCain needed (or at least thought he needed) to capture the vote of the right-wing-religious-wakkos, and Palin had the credentials to do that.
                   Also, it wasn't only the vote, but the ground forces and the network that could be energized through religious affiliations. His, and Hillary Clinton's biggest problem all along was the huge fund raising advantage that Obama had through internet connections. McCain was looking for something to counteract that as well.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: GUEST,KP
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:10 AM

As a Brit observing the US election from outside, I can see why the Republicans might have wanted to select a woman VP candidate. However, it seemed that the specific choice of Palin took away one of their strongest arguments - that Obama lacks experience. So I'd be interested in a US view on the following: were/are there no other female republican politicians with credibility and experience? If Palin was the only one on the horizon, how has that happened? If there were/are other potential candidates, why didn't they get selected?

Interested to hear from both sides of the US political debate on this.

KP

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 08:07 AM

She only sounds stupid because we've been taught to think that rural American colloquial speech is stupid.

                If she'd been through Harvard's electro-shock-speech-therapy in order to sound like every other candidate, we probably would not think of her as stupid.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 07:33 AM

Guest from Sanity Claus

I don't know if Palin is stupid.

But she does talk stupid.

Its a bloody good impersonation of someone who is stupid.

perhaps she's bright as a button.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 05:17 AM

All true drummer. So what should we do?

I think Wilson didn't make the mistake that Blair made because he had much more general political experience. What is most worrying is that Obama makes great speeches and has a depth of personal experience upon which to draw, but not a great depth of that general political experience.

He feels like Blair 2. I reveled n Blair 1. Will I be disappointed?

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 05:08 AM

Frankly, those who call Palin stupid are probably graced with the view that Obama is a man who you can trust to keep his word! ..Really!....I think the voting pubic seems to have been reduced to thinking the elections are about the same as voting on 'American Idol'...at least they look at similar qualifications.....either way, the prize is the same......

Regards..GfS

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Dec 08 - 04:13 AM

Yes I did live through the 1960's. We had a Prime Minister in Harold Wilson who grasped what a rudderless ship America had become (political parties in hock to industrialists who needed the quick fix of a war economy) and accordingly Wilson kept us out of the mess that Vietnam was turning into.

Of course Wilsons was widely derided at the time by all the left wingers. The trouble with the left wing - they're a bit like the Vatican - you can never be quite Catholic enough. No one is pure enough in their beliefs and sctions for the real left wingers.

They would rather have a Thatcher or a Reagan in power than take over the reins of government themselves with the compromises that that entails.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 11:00 PM

"you're supposed to be able to trust these people"

Says who????

You should've known better, didn't you live through the 60's.

Barry

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 10:42 PM

Well, they're pretty much the same people.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 10:36 PM

I am sure hoping that now we can.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 08:06 PM

so did I. To be fair to Doug and me - you're supposed to be able to trust these people.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 06:27 PM

"You mean like in the instance where President Bush, former President Clinton, Hillery and the majority in the congress all thought there were WMD in Iraq?"



And, they thought this because...

Dick Cheyney acted as an un-named source to tell the NYTimes that they did,

And then he went on national TV the next day and said they did, but not to believe him...he was quoting the reliable NYTimes!


Oh yes, I remember the details from those days. And I remember marching on winter streets with millions of others who did NOT believe the WMD bullshit we were being peddled.

And now we have been vindicated. And many of us remember exactly how, when, and where, and by whom, we were accused of being naive, unpatriotic terrorist sympathisers.

And, just to be clear, DougR did NOT accuse any of us of this. But he certainly believed the peddled BS.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 06:18 PM

lol

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 06:11 PM

Everything you've heard about Crossroads is true.

You had to provide your own costume. They said, Get a dark coloured suit. So I got a dark blue one - cos I didn't actually own a suit.

Doug Porter (Debyshire folksinger) held the record for playing 'man in bar'. he said it was worth getting the suit. So I did.

When I got there they said, you got a blue suit.....! the cameras don't like blue - didn't they tell you.

I said, no I bought it specially, and they said,.... oh well its only bloody Crossroads, if you bought it specially!

So I'm sitting there in the bar in my suit. Ronnie Allen is in the foreground doind the sub Rattigan bit
Dahling, would you mind awfully awfully if we gave it one more charnce....?
Oh David, dohlink ! I GAVE it a charnce, but with you - with you ...it was always the job - the motel, always and only, always and only! the job first and larrst!

I'm sat there in the background, next to this very nice lady who was a magicians assistant, she was telling me something or other.....

When this guy comes up to us with a clipboard and snarls WE CAN HEAR YOU TALKING IN THE CONTROL ROOM! You're only supposed to be acting talking! YOU! don't say a word! And don't for godsake drink those glasses of beer - they've been there months. It'll kill you. We have a bet on, on how long we can make a can of LongLife last... you nearly buggered it up!

So anyway. After a bit of Ronnie emoting. the guy with the clipboard comes up again. he says to Ronnie - change of plan Mr Allen - you're going to get back together with her! Heres the new speech.

So Ronnie goes off to learn the new speech - comes back ten minutes later and they shoot it in one. the camera crew applaud spontaneously.

Brilliant, we're all off home, I'm thinking. And the man with the clipboard comes back again. I say you guys, do you want to shoot another episode? - you get twice the money - and we all say - yes absolutely.

For the nest episode I was playing 'man walking through bar' A posh lady thespian grabbed me by the arm, and said briskly....'We'll walk through the bar like a man and wife out for evening together darling - you'll be marvellous!'

And so I was. I played 'man in bar' and 'man walking through bar'. Unfortuantely they were right about the blue suit - the camera didn't like it. When it was transmitted a few weeks later, I stood out and glowed like Sellafield kids in the porridge advert.

And when I walked across the bar - (glowing!) - I look a bit like a sputnik crossing Captain Kirk's vision, from the bridge of the USS Enterprise.

This was very unfortunate for the actor who was playing the new French Hotel Manager - Oh You Eeenglish how you deesgust me. Maintenant! I will be making you all eat frogs legs and smell my breath wheech is rich and vile with garleec an snails.... oh yes theengs 'ave been easy for you up to now! but ma fois! But ma fois!How you will suffere! Or my name is not Nasty-Foucquet!
Amy Turtle: Ooooh! I wain't loik thet Monsier Nasty Foucquet!
And then I sputnik-ed across the bar.

al

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 04:42 PM

I still wish the Repubs would pick candidates who can xpress themselves in complete sentences. Or even better, coherent phrases.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 09:27 AM

I guess those who backed Palin are still in denial.

Wanna see denial? Drive through any mostly conservative area in the US and count the number of McCain/Palin political signs that are still being displayed on people's lawns. I guess they're going to leave them up until the Republican nominee for 2012 is announced.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 08:21 AM

Sinshull,

"see big scandals in our future. "

unlike the outgoing regime then?

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 07:12 AM

From DougR:
Mick: "But smarter people have been tripped up by unknowable and unforeseen actions in countries where we have little or no input or decent intelligence sources."

You mean like in the instance where President Bush, former President Clinton, Hillery and the majority in the congress all thought there were WMD in Iraq?

DougR

Yes, Doug. Smart and corrupt. Re-election not the good of the country was on their minds as well as a little revenge for some and profit as well. I am not happy that the Clintons are involved in this administration and see big scandals in our future.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 03:37 AM

I guess those who backed Palin are still in denial. I have been in denial over all sorts of things over the years - that's what we do when we make a judgement that turns out to be faulty.

History will judge us!

Les

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: meself
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 01:41 AM

I don't see the resemblance, myself - other than that they both wear glasses ...

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 10:53 PM

An' you think that Bush ain't a dummy? Well look where we are today!
It isn't brains that wins 2 elections, it's scary how many dummies there are out there that voted him in & fell for him & his beer drinking friendly personality, almost, could've happened again. Are they still that stupid & are there still that many that they'd vote for him one more time just cause he smart????
Many a brassy idiot has held the high road, armed with no more that a good gun & from a good vantage point, doesn't mean that they had the brains to find themselves in the right place at the right time, against all odds.

Barry

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 08:33 PM

Okay, Weezer, she's just a liar...

B~

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 08:23 PM

Well our prime minister told us he thought there were WMD's in Iraq and like twats some of us believed him. Even when all our friends said otherwise.

I think on reflection that Blair knew at least as much as my left wing friends. Politicians like him were lying to us.

It was the iceberg to Blair's Titanic - from that moment on - he was obviously a liar - holed below the waterline.

You would be naive not to realise that any other politician coming up with that line was obviously a scoundrel.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 06:22 PM

Well, she is either stupid or...

...a crook...

Barry made a very valid point above about how she took the money for the "Bridge to Nowhere" rather than give it back and then campaigned as if she hadn't...

Well, I think it's stupid to camapign as someone who didn't want to waste taxpayer money on the "Bridge to Nowhere" and then keep the money???

But I could be wrong... Maybe she's just a good crook...

One or the other... There are no other choices inspite of Dougie's protestations about liberals not having any debating points...

And I'd juts like to go on record of predicting that the ill-infomed and the uneducated portion of our electorate have run their course... There won't be any more stupid presidents for a long time to come... Maybe another generation before people will again vote for the guy they would like to have a beer with...

B~

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 06:14 PM

You mean like in the instance where President Bush, former President Clinton, Hillery and the majority in the congress all thought there were WMD in Iraq?

Seems Douggie is even less grasp reality than I previously thought.

It would be well to remember that it's not polite- and not productive- to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Also be nice if Douggie could spell the Secretary of State's name correctly.

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Jeanie
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 04:44 PM

Here's another Brit coming in as a reinforcement joining the thread to tell Les that I got the joke - and yes, there is certainly a great physical likeness between the two ladies.

Weelittledrummer: maybe you can tell me whether this is a myth or whether it was really true - Apparently the budget was so small on "Crossroads" in its early days, that one of the walk-ons had to walk past the window wearing different hats and either crouching down or on tip-toe to make himself look as though he was several different people passing by ? Is that true - and...was it you ??
I was delighted to find a "lost episode" of Crossroads on the ITV version of the i-player - and they've brought out a DVD too. Wonderful stuff !

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: DougR
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 04:00 PM

Mick: "But smarter people have been tripped up by unknowable and unforeseen actions in countries where we have little or no input or decent intelligence sources."

You mean like in the instance where President Bush, former President Clinton, Hillery and the majority in the congress all thought there were WMD in Iraq?

DougR

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 01:34 PM

I am amazded and full of astounement at the turn this thread took! Why on earth have normaly sensible people who have not, apparantly, understood Les's joke assumed this is an attack on someone who means even less to the world in general than Coronation Street characters?

If I was to say, for instance, that I thought Obama looked like a man in an advert for pottypoop nappies, would his supporters assume that I had somehow insulted him? As it happens I reckon George W was in some old PG tips ads but that is BTW...

Wake up guys. If you don't see or understand the joke that's fine. Leave it to the people who do. I thought it was supposed to be us Brits who took over threads!

As it happens, to be in Coronation Street is the ultimate accolade and whoever the American bint in question is she should be pleased to be classed as sharing the same stage with Sir Ian McKellan, Prince Charles, Status Quo, Michael Byrne and, starting in January I beleive, Stephanie Beecham amongst coutless other famous cameos.

I think Noddy Holder was my favourite. It was the episode before Chritmas and it finished with his famous gruff voice yelling "Merry Christmas everybody!".

Oh - and the fact that Ted whateverhisname was, one of Rita's blokes, keeled over on the bowling green behind our house:-)

Al, Did you ever meet (in)famous Manchester folkies Geoff Higginbottom or Paul Connor during your time as an extra?

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 01:15 PM

Doug, proof that you see only that which serves your narrow purpose lies in the first two sentences of your diatribe above. I believe I am a liberal, and that I indicated great respect for my friend and fellow Beef Brother, as well as respect for his opinions.

As to those that choose to label this woman as "stupid" or a "dummy", be reminded that arrogance of that kind is what gave us Dubya. It is the same arrogance on behalf of management types that I took advantage of in union organizing drives, yet I was guilty of it as well. As you may recall, I was running the Gore campaign in Michigan during the Republican Primaries of 2000. I remember sitting with a young staffer of mine and making the comment that I sure hoped that GWB got the nomination. The staffer asked me why. I told him something like, "..because we will whip him like a rented mule. He is nothing more than a Daddy's boy in a suit, and not very bright". He may, on reflection, be the worst President in US history, but he beat us twice. Before you start all the "he stole the election" stuff, just remember that if we had won any of the small States, including Gore's own Tennessee, then Florida wouldn't have mattered.

Never underestimate someone's intelligence. It takes smarts to take advantage of the unavoidable enough to win an election. With the unknowable events which will shape the next four years, Palin will be smart enough to school herself in her weaknesses, and the conservatives will surround her with Cheney like folks that will polish up the warts, or hide them from view.

Our young President-elect is making all the right moves, assembling a world class team, and has the vision and smarts to maneuver in a very unstable world. But smarter people have been tripped up by unknowable and unforeseen actions in countries where we have little or no input or decent intelligence sources. He will require all of his skills, and all of our embracing of his agenda in a very real and activist way, to be successful. The Palins of our nation are certainly out there waiting to take advantage of any slip up. The worst thing you could do would be not be aware of that.

Mick

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 01:00 PM

Doug R wrote
if they cannot offer a reasonable response, they revert to personal attack.

The pot calls the kettle black once again.

SRS

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 12:41 PM

My cousin Jill, played Mike Baldwin's girlfriend, the florist, Maggie Dunlop.

I've not watched the show since Ena Sharples time. She used to frighten me when I was a child, and I always felt sorry for poor Minnie Caldwell, who seemed to be bullied by Ena.

Women in hairnets are damned scary! :0)

Modern days soaps frighten me even more than Ena Sharples used to because they're now so filled with violence and hatred. I don't understand what they're trying to do to the younger generation, apart from depress them all terribly and make them feel that this is a very bad world..

I'd far rather watch Jacques Cousteau's grandson, in that brilliant programme of his, the name of which I can't er..recall, at present...but it's come back, once I've had my Memory Mint...

Darn this growing old business! LOL

(several sucks later).....

AHA! It's called OCEANS


And by the way, Deidre Barlow seems to be looking younger than when I last watched the show about 10 years back. And far prettier too.

Maybe I should have married Ken Barlow! Darn it.... :0)

Subject: RE: Sarah Palin in Coronation Street
From: DougR
Date: 01 Dec 08 - 12:17 PM

Jed: I agree with everything you wrote. Our liberal friends delight in informing anyone who will listen that they are fair in their appraisal of people and respect the opinions of others. And they are too, unless you do not agree with them. In regard to arguments of substance, if they cannot offer a reasonable response, they revert to personal attack. But then you have been a member of the Mudcat long enough to know that. Not that it is germane to this subject, but yes, Jed is welcome back to my home anytime he wishes.

Joe: McCain and Palin did not campaign as moderates because they were running as conservatives.

DougR