BS: The Serial Bully

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 09:16 AM

In case it did not link:

'Every day I am taunted by strangers': Woman with world's largest natural breasts on bullying she has suffered since childhood
By Daily Mail Reporter
25th June 2011

The rising number of breast augmentations may indicate that many women want bigger chests. But for Annie Hawkins-Turner, having large breasts has caused untold suffering.
The 52-year-old, from Atlanta, Georgia, who has the world's largest natural breasts according to the Guinness Book of World Records, has revealed in an interview today how she has been bullied since childhood.
Speaking to UK breakfast show This Morning, she admitted that she is taunted daily by strangers.
Bullied: Annie Hawkins-Turner, who has the world's largest natural breasts, told UK TV show This Morning of the cruel taunts she has suffered since childhood

She told hosts Phillip Schofield and Jenni Falconer: 'When I go out of my house I have to think about what my day is going to be like and who is going to attack me today.

'Every day someone teases me that doesn't know me. They make fun of me and there's no reason. I'm human like everybody else.
Uncomfortable: The mother-of-two would be a 102ZZZ in regular bra sizing
'I'm just blessed in different ways than other people. It affects my son very badly because people stare.'
Ms Hawkins-Turner, who today makes a living as a glamour model under the pseudonym Norma Stitz, said that the bullying over her chest size began when she got her first bra at the age of ten.

'I don't know what size I was. I was just big,' she recalled. 'The only thing I remember about those bras is they were cotton and they stuck out just like footballs and that's when I knew I was different.

'Kids are some of the worst people in the world when it comes to picking on people. I was teased a lot.'
The mother-of-two says the size of her chest means that she struggles to perform everyday tasks, such as driving a car.
She admitted she was devastated to learn that she couldn't even breastfeed when her children were born, because the size of her chest meant there was no comfortable way to place the baby against her chest.

Ms Hawkins-Turner also discussed her late husband of 13 years, Alan, who died six years ago.
'He turned my whole life around,' she said of the retired Air Force officer.

'He treated me like a queen. He loved me and he loved my kids. He was my angel, it wasn't just sexual.'
Daily struggle: Ms Hawkins-Turner's breasts hinder her ability to complete everyday tasks, such as driving a car

Confidence: She also told This Morning hosts Phillip Schofield and Jenni Falconer how her late husband, Alan, taught her to love her body
Ms Hawkins-Turner's chest weighs eight stone, and in terms of conventional bras,would require a size 102ZZZ.
But, she says, she will never get breast reduction surgery.
She explained: 'Every time I get a new doctor they offer me surgery but I don't need surgery.
'I've got a strong back and have never had back ache. I've had therapy on how to hold myself so I won't hurt myself.'

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 09:12 AM

Put this under an older post:

People can be bullied for just about any reason.

Norma Stitz (102ZZZ) bullied since childhood

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:08 PM

Ooh heck, I'd not want any of those, John. I can think of far more lovely adjectives to use.

Bunny Burners took me back to Bunsen Burners in the school lab. Heck I could never fathom those things out. I was never the same after one Monday morning's lesson turned out to be Biology, and the little hamster I'd so lovingly cuddled on the Friday before, who I looked after at school, was 'the lesson', pinned to the board, after having 'allegedly' passed away during the weekend. I never trusted our Biology teacher after that, and hated Science from there on in.
Sat at the back of the class that day and refused to watch, listen or take part in that horrible lesson. And don't even get me started about the time we had to cut worms up! Live ones..and nope, I didn't do that lesson either. See what happens when you mention Bunnie Burners, Jeri.. :0)

Sorry, I've digressed..back to the subject in hand.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:40 PM

That's 3 different categories Lizzie.
Make your mind up, whether you want obsessive, stalking, or jilted lovers.

¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:00 PM

Taken from the link above..

"Bunny Boiler is a pejorative term for an obsessive and dangerous individual, most commonly referring to a jilted lover who is stalking the person who has spurned her or him. The term is normally used for a woman. The phrase derives from the 1987 film Fatal Attraction, about a woman who begins stalking a man with whom she had a one-night stand."


You mean, there are obsessive, stalking, jilted lovers in Mudcat???

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Dave Earl
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 11:59 AM

I know that it won't work for everybody, but I found a way round the bullies in my Youth.

I was always the smaller "different" person which made me an obvious target.

I tried to use whatever intellect I have/had and just ignored (as far as possible) what they said/did, on the basis that I could put up with it longer than they would get "fun" out of it.

Telling myself that it was them with the problem not me was what I felt was the answer. Maybe I have enough inner strength that got me through the problem but it will be harder for people who are more sensitive I'm sure.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 11:49 AM

Sorry, in my message above, I didn't mean bunny-BURNER, but bunny-BOILER. I don't think we've had any cases that severe though. Mainly I think we've just had cases of 'log-out and attack', or 'take-out-another-membership and attack', and maybe 'recruit some people to pile on', but no dead pets that I know of.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:52 AM

People on the internet are NOT always strangers. I know quite a few people who post here.

I've seen people here develop a strong hatred for someone else, I've seen scorned cyber-sweeties turn into nutso cyber bunny-burners and I've seen (and continue to see because they aren't and CAN'T be stopped the way Mudcat works) outright cyber stalkers. I don't know if they're considered to be bullies in addition to being stalkers or just one or the other. I suspect bullies don't hide so much and the stalkers do, which means stalkers log out and post as a GUEST. Sometimes they justify it by saying they're getting even, but nothing justifies what they (or their allies) do. Then again, maybe bullies do hide. It doesn't much matter--they're all evil.

The Wikipedia entry on 'Bullying' gives the following:

"Norwegian researcher Dan Olweus defines bullying as when a person is 'exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons.' He defines negative action as 'when a person intentionally inflicts injury or discomfort upon another person, through physical contact, through words or in other ways.'"

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:10 AM

"There ARE cyber bullies, but they're less effective because they can't do physical damage"

Actually they can it is not that hard to find out personal details especially if the person doing the bullying was once thought of as a friend. Then things can become very personal and nasty to the point of dangerous It happened to me on another site and only stopped when my husband spoke to the person and told them a full record of events had been kept and would be handed to the police.

Remember people on the internet are strangers however well you think you have got to know them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:00 AM

There ARE cyber bullies, but they're less effective because they can't do physical damage, and there's no way for them to back a victim into a corner. A person can delete PMs and e-mails without reading them. A person being bullied in real life may fear for their jobs, their well-being or even their lives, while the most cyber bullying can accomplish (at least at Mudcat) is to piss off the victim and some spectators.

From what I've seen here, the victims frequently DO realize, and either ignore the bullies, try to reason with them or just bait them. The latter two just prolong the disruptive bullying for, say 1,380 posts (give or take). It makes me wish there were cyber duct tape. (That's gaffers' tape for all of you living in England... oops, my bad-- the U.K.)

It helps if they choose a victim nobody much likes or agrees with, because the chances someone will defend that person are slim. It also helps them if one or more moderators joins them and becomes one of the bullies. Then, they appear to be bullet proof.

Just want to say: I see you. I know what you are. I will remember what you do.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: peregrina
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:05 AM

The cyber world mirrors all the good and bad of the 'real' world...

Now... how about an 'off' button like the one on the computer for worlplace jerks?

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:03 AM

There are cyber bullies around too.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 05:53 AM

From M Ted:

"Bullies don't act alone--they act with the tacet approval of authority figures, managers, teachers, etc, and with the complicity of the "uninvolved" onlooker, co-workers, students,etc.
This is why it seldom helps to complain to higher-ups about bullies.

If you are in a workplace that is dominated by a bully, whether the garden variety, or the psycho type, take a good, hard, look around--the bully may just be the tip of the iceberg-"



Absolutely!

School Bullying Policies are total CRAP. I know, both my children were bullied, my daughter almost to the point of wishing for death to swallow her up, and in both cases, the words on their charters were utterly hollow and meaningless.

More than that though, as M Ted so wisely says, it is the apathy of all those around the situation which allows the bullies to exist, and thrive.

Society these days now 'celebrates' the bullies, with the TV programmes and the culture that surround us all. It needs to be changed. It is being ingrained into our children that spitefulness unkindness and ritual humiliation, is quite normal and what life is about. Geez! WHERE are we going with that???????

If you see bullying going on and you keep quiet about it, then you are NO better than the bully themselves. It matters not if that bullying is taking place in the workplace, the school, the home...or..on messageboards.

It is no good coming up to people in private, telling them that you're on their side, or how 'terrible' you think it is, how what is happening to them should NOT be happening, because your SILENCE is the very thing that is ALLOWING it to happen and to continue to happen.

There is one person who has stood beside me, and I have the utmost respect for that person, because they have spoken out, both publicly and privately, regardless of how others may view them. It takes strength to do that, but it also proves that those speak out, have not only strength, but kindness, compassion, empathy, honour and integrity.

We have come so far away from those values in modern life.

We need to return to them.


Lizzie

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 03:11 AM

I'm laughting my ass off Bobert.

You should've known better. I was always smaller, so when I got singled out I always found an equalizer, a chair, an antena, peice of wood.
Like I told Big Mick when he said he was goon kick my ass.
"I've been beaten a few times but no one ever tried to beat me twice.

After you wacked the bully like that did he ever try you again.

The same thing happened to my kid brother (he's still just 5') & I told him the same thing your dad told you. So just before the start of class my brother hauled off & punched the bully in the face & sent him flying on his ass. So the next time my bother ran into the bully, the bully said it was a lucky punch & he couldn't do it again, so my kid brother hauled off again & knocked him on his ass. He stayed clear of my brother after that. Bullies aren't usually very smart, a bit clever & very sneaky but not real smart.

Hi Lizzie Cornish, thanks for the complement & the refresh

Kendall, I have the words down now, only took a fews years. Next time we see each other remind me if you want to hear it, be happy to sing for you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if I can touch leather.
And I agree with the kicking 'em in the nuts 1st.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 02:49 AM

Bobert, you should have kicked him in the nuts, THEN, punched him in the jaw!

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: peregrina
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 07:08 PM

Yeah, it doesn't work to use their tactics back.

Don't try calling the bully a bully or he can make a complaint against you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 07:05 PM

Well, when I was in junior high school we had one of these bullies... He was so friggin' stupid that he had failed so many grades that he was like, ahhhhhh, 17 years old an in the 8th grade and so one day in English class he just, out of the blue, punched me in the face... I don't know why he did it but he did....

Well, I went home and told my dad and my dad said that all ya' had to do was stand up to bullies... I tried to tell him that Clarkie Crumbar was like 17 years old and outweighed me by a hunmdred pounds but my dad would have nothin' of it so...

..."bout a week later in gym class I worked up my nerve figuring that the PE teachers would step in and save me from being killed so...

... right there during PE I slowly walked up to Clarkie and punched him as hard as I could in his face...

This was the stupidist thing I did as a 13 year old boy!!!

Okay, he didn't kill me but he hurt me very badly before the PE teachers could get him off me... When all the bllod was cleaned up I had a broken nose (with both eyes blackened) and welts alll over my poor head...

To this very day I have problems with sinuses from that broken nose...

Thanks, Dad... Any other good ideas???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: peregrina
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 06:53 PM

Very true, but when they conceal this with suits, pomposity, a refusal to keep their word and sucking up to superiors, they are hard to dislodge.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 06:37 PM

All bullies are cowards at heart.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: peregrina
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:44 PM

I am dealing with a serial bully at work and I am £&*^-ing FED UP.

At least I have developed some immunity to it by now.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:32 PM

From Barry Finn:

"I'm the bully & you're my victim
I need the practice, you need the pain
I'm the bully & you're my victim
I'll keep on you & drive you insane..."

Very meaningful words, Barry.


From Kat:
"Some may have already figured this out, but now there are brain studies proving that bullies enjoy watching others being hurt"

I think many of us have figured it out, Kat, as you say. And yes, the findings of those studies are absolutely correct.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:33 AM

They don't enjoy being put in their place.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:09 AM

Some may have already figured this out, but now there are brain studies proving that bullies enjoy watching others being hurt: click here.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: MMario
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 04:10 PM

'Spaw - they've managed to pull the wool over your eyes! The true villians are the Serta counting sheep - and behind them, with her public "butter wouldn't melt in her mouth" goody goody super-sweet image is the mastermind; Mrs. Butterworth.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 04:05 PM

My biggest problem is figuring who is the worst! I used to think it was those three jadrools, Snap, Krackle, and Pop, but nowadays I lean more toward the fuckin' tiger.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 12:23 PM

A serial bully might be attracked to police careers.

It seems to me that bullies who don't qualify for police work for the TSA and insist that old people who can barely stand to take off their shoes without the aid of a chair.

Now imagine a police force that is immune to civil law and hold themselves above the Constitution. The kind of person attracked to this kind of agency may be the ultimate bully.

Not all talented people that such an agency will require may need to be trained and brain washed to lose thier soul. Its best to get them while they are young.

Part of the exclusive leadership training at Yale is the Skull and Bones Fraternity. A credo of S&B is to accept extreme cruelty as a passage to leadership and that the fools are those who will not cross the line of extreme predjudice (murder) in the short timeline of our lives.

The torture that the CIA does is of course OK. When the Nazis did it however it was not OK.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:02 AM

These are just some of the reasons I said NO to the CIA 30 years ago and paid dearly for my wish for liberty.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 08 - 09:59 AM

An individual bully is one thing but think about institutional bullying for a moment.

For every group that sponsors antibullying awarness there must be hundreds or thousands of groups that teach the tactics of bullying or demand bullying tactics.

The religious group that teaches the concept of the "other" or "unbeliever". The corporation like Enron whose executives joke about ruining the little old lady with immpossibly high manipulated electricity costs. The evangelical appointee who graduated from Regents college who will hire only the inexperieinced and incompetant over the best qualified people based on religion litmus tests. The political attack machines. Think tanks who create grand social models and implement social control models of behavior based upon the concept of "people who believe in 'self interest and material selfishness' are more easily controled than groups who act as a community.

Some institutions of bullying teach the tactics as if they are tenents of wisdom or the essence of religion... Moonies, EST, Scientology, (the big 3) etc.
Most business models today hold these sick tenents dear.
Most politics are the same. For a politician to rise without these tactics is both impossibly rare and wonderful.

I believe:

The bully has won once you keep a secret or perpetuate their lie.

Whenever you keep their secret or perpetuate their lie,
you become either their subordinate bully or their controlled victim.


your humble servant Don H.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Rowan
Date: 28 Jul 08 - 09:51 PM

I stumbled across this thread quite by accident but it has had relevance to my past activities and some of my current existence. A couple of books published in Oz might be of assistance but their details are elsewhere and it's quite possible that some details are not applicable elsewhere. BUt here's a start.

For anyone who feels they're on the receiving end of bullying you must document everything; without documented evidence of incidents there will be no action. Depending on your situation (type of employment, context, confidence levels etc) the documentation may be a personal diary or journal or may take other forms.

Because of the nature of my work I have found it useful to "mirror" requests so that potential confusions are nipped in the bud or avoided altogether; email works well in this regard and has lent itself to more serious documentation of phone and other conversations. A contentious exchange can be summarised in an email which you then send to the other party with comments such as "I understood you to have said ...." (avoiding direct accusations such as "You said ...", which a bully will use against you) and inviting the recipient of your email to "amend errors of fact" as otherwise your email will stand as a definitively correct record.

There will be situations where you will send such an email only to the "miscreant" and there will be situations where it will be advisable that the "miscreant" knows that the email has also been sent to another recipient the "Cc:" option is very useful, as (sometimes) is the "Bcc:" option.

There have been times when such documentation has been useful in changing the recipient's behaviour for the better and there have been times when the documentation had to go to the Ombudsman to achieve the desired change but, without documentation your argument is less supportable and thus less effective at producing change.

Where I am employed there is a set of policies covering grievances, conflict resolution etc and all require such documentation. The evidence (outlined in one of the books whose title is something like "Bullying as an OH&S issue" and was written by two women) is that mediation between a bully and the bullied is rarely effective, as the institution regards the more senior person (most often the bully) as more valuable to the enterprise than the bullied (most often a subordinate). For this reason, OH&S legislation (in NSW, "psychological health" is specifically mentioned in the Act and the Regulation) may be more useful as statutory legislation overrides "institutional policy"; documentation is essential.

The list of criteria in the initial post is very similar to those in another Oz book written by John Clark; this is not the John Clark who does the political satire with Brian Dawe (well known by Oz residents) but a forensic psychologist. Its title is "Working with Monsters: psychopaths in the Australian workplace". Clark goes to great lengths to warn against amateurs indulging in diagnosis of their fellows but makes it quite clear what sorts of behaviour are associated with those he classifies into four types of psychopath; the organisational psychopath is the consummate workplace bully.

I hope this helps.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:09 PM

Part of the problem with dealing with bullying is that people don't agree on what constitutes bullying--and some "bullying" stituations seem similar on the surface have very different underlying causes.

As mentioned above, individuals with borderline personality disorder are often confused with bullies--a rule of thumb--your garden variety "street bully" uses physical/psychological violence and threat of violence for personal advantage--pure and simple--the borderline pesonality type is acting out irrational compulsions.

Bullies don't act alone--they act with the tacet approval of authority figures, managers, teachers, etc, and with the complicity of the "uninvolved" onlooker, co-workers, students,etc.
This is why it seldom helps to complain to higher-ups about bullies.

If you are in a workplace that is dominated by a bully, whether the garden variety, or the psycho type, take a good, hard, look around--the bully may just be the tip of the iceberg-
I

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Helen
Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:06 AM

jacqui c,

I haven't had a chance to write it down yet, but I've been thinking it out. I started a new job a couple of weeks ago so I am in that state of trying to learn everything at work and then just crashing when I get home.

It's weird being back at that workplace, though, because I was treated badly there a couple of years ago by a group of women. There have been a lot of new people hired, and even though most of the same women are still there, they are in one section that I don't really have to deal with, and there is a strong culture among most other people in the building of staying away from the bullies who were so bad before. An "us and them" culture, I think. Part of the reason the bullies got away with it before was that the majority of the workforce were temps who could get fired at a moment's notice. Now nearly everyone has had to apply for permanent jobs so the situation is not as tenuous for most people as it was before.

I was watching a situation in the lunch room a couple of days ago, and I have resolved to strike up a conversation with the woman who I think may be being targeted, so that she knows that she is not alone among a pack of wolves. The problem is I don't know which section she works in so I just have to keep looking for her.   In the workplace where I was bullied by the manager there was a newly hired, brilliant and extremely highly qualified woman. I was going to find her and talk to her about the bully because I thought she would be a prime target because the boss would feel threatened by her. I was only working part time, so before I had a chance to talk to her she committed suicide. I suspect he put his hooks into her psychologically and it was too much for her.

As you can see, I have a lot to say about bullying and part of my problem is knowing where to start. Here in Oz it will be a long weekend this weekend, so hopefully I'll start writing it down then.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: number 6
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 12:07 PM

We live in a very unsecure, distrustful world .... I dunno, maybe this could be one factor in the increase in bullying.

Yeah you are right Shambles ... we must also prepare our childeren to survive in this "dog-eat-dog" world ... let them know there are many people out there who disrepect others, who lack understanding. But letting them be aware is getting them to understand.

I've taught my kids not to fight bullying by counter bullying ... but to try to reason and turn the other cheek ... I'm probably wrong in that ... but overall they turned out ok, good human beings at that in the long run.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 11:39 AM

My daughter was being bullied in school. She took four years of martial arts. After six months she was no longer bullied. The study of MA allowed her to learn how to prevent others being bullied also.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 08:26 AM

Helen - were you able to write out your ideas? I think that a lot of us would be interested in seeing them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Sep 06 - 06:09 AM

Responses to bullying

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Sep 06 - 05:25 AM

It's simple ... teach them to respect all people, be humane, understand all and to give them hope that humanity will prevail.

All good stuff, I agree but that alone will only serve to make yet more victims for the bully to make miserable.

It is just as important for our children to be prepared for the fact that not everyone in this 'dog-eat-dog' world of ours will be taught this or would even be able to understand such concepts.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 04:49 PM

"I've got grandchildren I'd like to help get through school & life. "

It's simple ... teach them to respect all people, be humane, understand all and to give them hope that humanity will prevail.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Helen
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 04:45 PM

Tannywheeler,

I'm just getting ready for work but I'll write some things about what I mean when I get the chance, but it may not be until the weekend.

I don't mean that I've got all the answers, but I have figured out some of the puzzle.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM

refretch

...'cos its too important to let slide off the bottom

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 19 Sep 06 - 09:55 AM

Helen, in an earlier posting (14 Sep?) you said you know how to deal with it. For those of us who may not, could you give lessons, or tell where you learned your lesson? I've got grandchildren I'd like to help get through school & life.       Tw

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 01:47 PM

You could take it either way & ya you're right hard to find morals any lower than those in government. Sometimes I think that big business at least isn't as bad but then I think of where the orders are coming from & I just can't figure who's the worst. I love to be a fly on the wall, say like at the US's energy policy meeting & watch how backroom bullies actually work with each other. If it weren't so horrific it could be a comedy series. Maybe it should be.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 05:16 AM

Sorry.... giggling in inappropriate places.... and a serendipitous spelling error...

'they can pull a ... governments moral to its lowest level..'

That's presuming that goverments have morals.

(We know you meant morale, but it's funnier your way!)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Sep 06 - 01:21 AM

Being a bully is not a personality disorder, please! If it were they then could fight a firing as discrimation but they can, if it's not a medical condition, be fired for behavior problems. And they should be fired, they can pull a company or government's moral to it's lowest level. A happy workplace produces fantastic results.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 11:31 PM

"...If the bully doesn't know what they are doing, they should be suspended from duty on the grounds ..." 'Bully' is singular and 'they' is plural. Written by a schizoid personality.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 04:33 PM

Not only in government but also in institutions where people place their trust such as schools and churches.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 03:57 PM

The real trouble is that the bully sees that it is a paying game. Look how many top government people screw up in big positions of power, and go on to another big job.

There is too much incentive in our society for people who seek power without responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM

My boss is exactly as described on the first posting. One employee lost her job when she told him that he was a bully. He then said that he realised that he had a problem, but nothing has changed. He is very scary to work with, but I think his problem is paranoia, and he should have professional help. I will not be the one to tell him unless i win the lottery. Its hard when you are in this trap.

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 01:06 PM

The description of bullying behavior sounds like someone I know who has been effectively cut out of my life and has been observed moving on to others. She maintains a lovely cycle of deception and wonders at why she has so few friends.

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 09:11 AM

I had a boss once who hit me on the head (from the back) while the whole day shift watched. I immediately stood up to face him and said QUITE firmly, "Don't you EVER do that again." He made a joke and walked off. I excused myself and went to the coffee room to let the adrenaline wear off-- the shakes, in privacy. The boss came in and, blocking the door in this small room, hit me again with a hard shot to the upper arm, telling me to relax-- he was just "kidding around." So much for assertive speech.

There was none of the lead-up, to this event, that one might have expected, and in the workplace he didn't display most of the other characteristics of bullies listed here, nor those of an abuser.

He and his partner owned the business, and I soon discovered that cocaine was a regular "aid to recreation" in the executive offices. I think he actually was so high that he had no idea how hard he had hit, or that it was inappropriate in the first place. Sure, I could have filed suit-- instead I simply moved on to a better job.

No one else there ever said a word to me about it, that day or later.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Sep 06 - 04:07 AM

In my experience the bully gets promoted because the people he is in charge of, will work harder (or differently) in order to prevent an outburst. People don't chat or discuss things at work because they're always afraid of the next round of victimisation. Individuals don't speak up about his/her mistakes or bad policies because that will get you his/her undivided attention. He/she will play one person off against another, spreading false rumours and generating mistrust, so people don't talk to each other. This "silence" gives the impression that a team is working well and is content. Thus the bully gets the reputation for being a good manager and is promoted accordingly.

Sometimes - as was the case of *Keith Danvers-Colqhuoun, he's challenged and put into a job where he's not in charge of anyone. Sometimes there is no-one of a suitable grade willing to take on management of a particular department. Sometimes, there are section managers who will give people a second chance and a managerial position because they are the only ones with the right qualifications and experience....

At the time Keith was appointed, we had a department of 12. After 6 months, his divisive tactics had made 3 groups of uneven numbers who didn't speak to each other, 2 were on long term sick leave with stress related illnesses, 3 had left the company, and 1 was a basket case who decided there was nothing else to lose and fought back.

He was about to be presented with an official bullying charge when he went on holiday for 4 weeks. Due to a death in his family, he didn't come back for a further 6 months - just long enough for the charge to expire. During this time a new manager was appointed and Keith was promoted sideways... a position of more techinical responsibility but no people to manage. He now makes peoples lives miserable further up the chain by complaining how things were better when he was in charge and what he'd do if he were reinstated. He cannot be dismissed because a bullying charge cannot be made to stick - he chooses his victims carefully, as he does his proteges.

Keith is presently "grooming" a young man in my office - this man Joe Rodgers-England* already has a very high opinion of himself, does very little actual work but lots of training courses. He is a great fan of 'The Apprentice' and 'Dragon's Den' and sees nothing wrong in a manager reducing a worker to tears in order to get a job finished. He spent over 3 hours bitching about people interferring with his desk when in reality, the department head investigated his working practices after he made a mistake causing a £80,000 overpayment to a company. He is becoming Keith, but more so, because he has the ambition to rise rapidly through the ranks. So far, he has been passed over twice...

LTS

(*real names... is it only a coincidence that they both use a double-barrelled name when their relatives working in the same company but not department don't....?)