BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:08 PM

Well, McGrath, I would agree. Proof is proof and nothing is certain until or unless we have it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 07:12 PM

The same would apply if people had been defrauding ACORN by falsifying registration forms.

In both cases there would be a possibility that the organisation had been at fault for not having spotted it earlier etc, and that would merit investigation to find out whether that is the case or not. But there's no justice in treating such an investigation as proof of the organisation being at fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:29 PM

I would think that in that case, the FBI would be investigating Wade Rathke, and not ACORN, since ACORN was the victim of that crime and not the perpetrator of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:00 PM

"... allegations that Dale Rathke, the brother of ACORN founder Wade Rathke, had embezzled nearly $1 million..."

One might assume that the FBI has every right to investigate this chap since ACORN has received at least $32 million dollars of Federal taxpayer money in the last few years. This outfit also operates in more than one state which should trigger a Federal investigation as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:28 PM

They have to follow up on the reports regardless of whether or not they have any validity. That's not at all the same thing as investigating ACORN itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:25 PM

I can appreciate the political problems related to the whole thing, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:24 PM

Frankly, I don't see any difference between announcing that the FBI is investigating reports about falsified registration forms related to ACORN's activities, and simply saying, "The FBI is investigating ACORN."

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:14 PM

I think Representative Blunt's pants are a little bit on fire.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/us/politics/17acorn.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin


'But law enforcement officials sought on Thursday to ratchet down speculation that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had begun a broader investigation into the group's activities. Some officials said privately that they were wary of being pulled into a highly partisan controversy so close to Election Day.

The officials said their investigation of Acorn's activities would, for now, focus on reports of voter registration fraud that have surfaced in several states...

...In a statement, Acorn said it had not been contacted by federal law enforcement agencies, and the group's leaders expressed confidence that "any legitimate review of Acorn by any law enforcement entity — be it local, state or federal — will determine that the organization has conducted itself properly."'


The FBI is not investigating ACORN. They were (I don't know if they still are or not) investigating specific reports of falsified registrations.

The FBI is also aware of the political nature of the reports against ACORN, and that's why they're downplaying their investigation into those reports.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: curmudgeon
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:03 PM

That "news" item is a month old!

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:56 PM

Blunt: News of FBI's Investigation of ACORN a Welcome Development
House Republican Whip Roy Blunt
WASHINGTON, Oct. 16 — House Republican Whip Roy Blunt (Mo.) applauded reports this afternoon that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has opened an active investigation into whether the left-wing advocacy group ACORN has violated federal election law by fostering and promoting a national program of voter registration fraud.

Blunt issued the following statement:

"Last week, I was proud to join three former secretaries of state now serving in Congress, as well as our ranking members on the Judiciary and Administration committees, in calling on the Justice Department to stand up in defense of the sanctity of Americans' right to vote -- and, as important, their right to be assured that vote counts.

"I want to applaud the Department of Justice for taking this important step, and associate myself with the efforts of Leader Boehner to ensure not one more dime of taxpayer money is diverted into the coffers of this organization until Justice completes its review and determines whether ACORN's actions merit criminal prosecution."

Advertisement
NOTE: The Associated Press reported today that the FBI is actively pursuing leads in the investigation of ACORN. Word of the investigation comes less than a week after Blunt joined Reps. Candice Miller (R-Mich.), Vernon Ehlers (R-Mich.), Dean Heller (R-Nev.), Tom Cole (R-Okla.), and Lamar Smith (R-Texas) in sending a letter to the Department of Justice urging it to act. That letter is available here,

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:07 PM

ACORN is not under investigation by the FBI. Some of ACORN's former employees are under investigation by the FBI.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:40 PM

"Considering the fact that it has already been established that ACORN has not engaged in any unlawful activities or voter registration fraud,"


                   It has not. They are still under investigation by the FBI.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:10 PM

The concern seems to be about worries about embezzlement and possible failure to be careful enough about avoiding registration fraud, rather than about whom the newly registered voters might choose to vote for, which is entirely up to them.

As the spokesman bishop is quoted as saying there "Non-partisan voter registration, especially in poor communities, is important and needed work. Too often, poor voters are not registered or are not encouraged to participate in the vital choices that affect their families and communities."

The legal status of abortion is an important issue, but it's not by any means the only one.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM

The Church may have banned donations to ACORN after hearing about the embezzlement, but they said the ban on donations to ACORN won't be lifted "'until and unless it is clear that CCHD funds will not go to an organization that has engaged in unlawful activities or voter registration fraud'", and "the church has "severed ties" with ACORN and there are no plans for further discussion at this time".

Considering the fact that it has already been established that ACORN has not engaged in any unlawful activities or voter registration fraud, the fact that the church is pretending that this is not the case suggests to me that they have a different reason for their ban on donations to ACORN.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:45 PM

More Catholic voted for Obama than not, it's the Church that's against Obama not the members. It seems as if the Church is not in step with the members in the same way that our Government for the past 8 yrs has not been in step with it's citizens. Maybe the chruch should become more democratic & allow it's members to vote on who should become Bishops, Cardnails Pope (he,he) rather than electing from within their own self interests.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:37 AM

This from the article posted:


The Catholic Campaign for Human Development froze its contributions to the group in June amid allegations that Dale Rathke, the brother of ACORN founder Wade Rathke, had embezzled nearly $1 million.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:35 AM

ok ... thamks guys for the info .... maybe that explains it.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:23 AM

The Catholic Church hierarchy was against Obama because he is pro-choice. There were certainly Catholics who ignored what the church hierarchy was telling them, but the church itself says Catholics can't vote for pro-choice candidates and be good Catholics.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:12 AM

You would think that all the other concerns that match Catholic doctrine would matter...but they don't. The official Catholic position is anti-Obama. Abortion outweighs everything else combined.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:09 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Roman Catholics as a whole supported Obama .... they object to the Dem's stand on abortion ... but support their policy in regards to the ending of the war, their stand on immigration, their stand on worker's rights, health care, and the Dems' commitment to the poor, and their stand on the environment etc.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:48 AM

The story I read (which is the one that was posted) said this...

However, he said, the ban on donations to ACORN won't be lifted "until and unless it is clear that CCHD funds will not go to an organization that has engaged in unlawful activities or voter registration fraud."

We already know that ACORN has not engaged in any unlawful activities or voter registration fraud, so I think the Catholic Church is just using that as cover for something they wanted to do anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:13 AM

The story I read that had to do with the Catholic Church cutting them off had more to do with the people in charge of the organization stealing money than anything to do with ACORN's involvement in illegal voting and registration.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:20 AM

Carol has a good point.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:19 AM

" In nearly every case that has been reported, it was ACORN who discovered the bad forms"--and reported them to the authorities.   Sounds like there must be more to this than the typical knee-jerk anti-ACORN view we've seen from some posters.

This sounds like half the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:17 AM

That's kind of not surprising since ACORN has been helping to register voters who are more likely to vote for the candidates that the Catholic Church doesn't want elected. In fact, to me, it looks like it was inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 08:56 AM

Well ... the elections over .. but the issue continues.

Catholic Church cuts off ACORN funding

I really don't think this is a GOP conspiracy, or even a Dem conspiracy at that.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 08:52 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 06:48 AM

Well, hopefully that will be the end of ACORN!

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:07 AM

Lawsuit Adds to Turmoil for Community Group New York Times

In the wake of an embezzlement scandal that rocked the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or Acorn, two of its board members are seeking a court order to force it to hand over financial documents. They also are seeking to sever what they describe as continuing ties between Acorn and its founder, Wade Rathke, who resigned after it became public this summer that his brother had embezzled almost $1 million from the organization eight years ago. They contend that Mr. Rathke continues to direct the staff and expenditures.

"Acorn will suffer irreparable harm if the defendants are not restrained from contact with employees, expending and receiving, destroying or prohibiting the review of accounting and other data necessary to fulfill the fiduciary responsibility of the interim management committee," the board members, Marcel Reid and Karen Inman, stated in the petition. Both serve on a committee established to lead Acorn. The suit cites their concerns that money is being spent improperly and that important documents are being destroyed. It was filed on behalf of the entire 51-member board, but Acorn executives and some board members say Ms. Reid and Ms. Inman had no authority to file the suit or to claim to represent the board.

Acorn contends that Ms. Reid and Ms. Inman are trying to engineer a takeover, and on Tuesday, it demanded that the petition be withdrawn. "We found ourselves after the fact having filed a lawsuit against ourselves," said the Rev. Gloria Swieringa, a board member who leads the Maryland affiliate. "It was not authorized nor did we know anything about it until this firestorm over it erupted."

The suit is a sign of the turmoil that has rocked Acorn since the embezzlement by Dale Rathke, Wade Rathke's brother, was revealed to the board in June. The embezzlement, which Acorn said involved $948,607.50, was discovered in 2000 but concealed by senior executives until a whistle-blower told a foundation leader about it in May.

Wade Rathke was forced to step down as chief organizer, the top executive position, but he remained the chief organizer of Acorn International, which shares offices in Acorn's headquarters in New Orleans. The Rathke family pledged to repay Acorn.

"Even though his relationship with Acorn has been terminated," the petition says of Wade Rathke, "he continues to meet with staff members regarding this" — the embezzlement — "and other governance issues which impeded the ability of the interim management committee to perform its function."

Bertha Lewis, who was appointed interim chief organizer when Mr. Rathke stepped down, said the lawsuit was unnecessary. But Ms. Lewis echoed concerns about Mr. Rathke's continued involvement, saying Acorn had asked him to leave its offices. "Mr. Rathke stubbornly refuses to do that, so he sort of haunts that office, tries to talk to folks doing their work," she said.

Mr. Rathke said he had no role in managing Acorn. "I was with the organization for 38 years, and there are many people I hired and supervised, and I have great relationships with them," he said. "I haven't been involved in supervising them. Are they saying that simply because I breathe, I exist, they have a problem?" The suit put the extent of Dale Rathke's embezzlement at "an amount that may exceed one million dollars," more than the amount disclosed this summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:52 PM

It's all about funding at this point. If ACORN gets any, there'll be a revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:23 PM

Yup. That ad doesn't tell anyone how to vote. It tells people who are being disenfranchised to stand up for their right to vote. It's a good ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:32 PM

You really should have been able to do better than that, rig.

Here is what I take to be the ad in question. Very much to the point and effective.

Of course it doesn't say "don't vote for McCain and the Republicans", it just asks people to stop them trying to prevent people entitled to vote from voting, and obviously no one in a democracy should ever try to do that.

If I'd been ACORN I'd have phrased it slightly different - not "John McCain and the Republicans" but perhaps "people in the campaign of John McCain and the Republicans". That sticks to the proved facts. I'd think it more likely that the dirty tricks brigade operate on a deniable nod-and-a-wink basis, rather than relying on direct orders from the top.

But then McCain's very direct accusations against ACORN did rather smack of potential libel, so perhaps that's how you do it in the States. And if McCain and Co haven't been doing everything they can to stop the kind of voter suppression and exclusion that has been reported, which appears to have been the case, that's essentially the same as ordering it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

200???

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:16 PM

That's the best I can do!



http://www.ktnv.com/global/story.asp?s=9261997

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:58 PM

Wouldn't it make sense to give a link to the ad or ads in question, rather than arguing in abstract terms?

No doubt they are somewhere on YouTube, along with lots of other stuff about this which are not ads.

We've got all this wonde4rful information technology. Why not use it?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:24 PM

Yes, well we can agree on that. But it will be interesting to see what happens the next time a bill comes up in Congress and ACORN funding is tied to it in some way.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Whether or not those responsible for the legal side of the issue will agree with that opinion remains to be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM

They've crossed the line and should never receive another dime of public money. That's all I'm saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:06 PM

McCain has been throwing around fabricated accusations against ACORN in order to discredit Obama and suppress votes. McCain has the bully pulpit. ACORN definitely has a right to defend themselves and the voters against these tactics of McCain's. If he didn't want them defending themselves so close to the election, he shouldn't be spreading lies about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:01 PM

Let's see, it's 4 days before the election, and they charge one candidate with vote tampering and not the other, while at the same time, they're under investigation by the FBI.

         If any Congress person votes to continue funding these jerks after the election, they ought to be locked up and never heard from again.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

They can definitely level charges of vote suppression against someone who is trying to suppress votes, regardless of whether or not he is a Republican candidate, and still receive federal money. That's their job.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:54 PM

Why not? The voters concerned could just as well be Republicans as Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM

"They didn't tell people to not vote for McCain. They're accusing him of disenfranchising voters,..."


          They can't do that and take public money as a non-partisan organization.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:41 PM

McCain made a direct accusation against ACORN on TV, accusing them of trying to undermine democracy in the way they were registering voters, virtually accusing them of treason. The accusation, presented as if it were a proven fact, has been been repeated many times. It's not unreasonable that ACORN should seek to rebut those charges.

The voters registered by ACORN will be free to vote for whomever they choose to vote for. Presumably a good number will in fact be voting for McCain, assuming they don't get disenfranchised as a result of the tactics adopted by people in his campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:40 PM

Has anyone commented upon the Republican Rout-the-Evangelical-Vote efforts?

I'm in favor of anyone trying to get everyone to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:33 PM

It's easy to make charges without substantiation. So far, all of the accusations made against ACORN have proven to be fabrications and distortions.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

They didn't tell people to not vote for McCain. They're accusing him of disenfranchising voters, which is entirely consistent with their mission of helping people vote. That's not partisan. It's their job.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:27 PM

"...an analysis showing that the left-wing group ACORN, currently under investigation by the FBI for a "coordinated national scam" of voter registration fraud according to the Associated Press, has received at least $31 million in federal funding from various federal agencies since 1998. This total does not count the untold millions more that ACORN has received indirectly through state and local agencies that receive federal block grants."

And no, they do not register Republicans at all if they can avoid it.

In fact, many of the few Republicans registered are Democrat activists who are trying to make the count "look better". They will never vote Republican.

No group should get one penny of federal taxpayer's money to register voters unless they are non-partisan.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM

Their specific major goal: registering voters - IS non-partisan.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:20 PM

ACORN Releases TV Ad Accusing McCain Of Suppressing Votes
KTNV Las Vegas - Oct 29 3:43 PMThe national voter rights group has released a 30 second television ad accusing John McCain of trying to suppress the vote. ACORN is the target of several federal and state investigations for possible voter registration fraud.