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BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bobert Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM Yo, Sawz... There you go again with the same sh*t that made you have to give up yer Old Guy and Dickey handle and that is misrepresenting what other folks say which for the record is a way of... ..yes, lieing... In other words... Your statement above is a lie... Pure and simple... And that, my friend, makes you a liar!!! Don't like being called a liar??? Then quit lieing... That's purdy simple, ain''t it??? Bottom line is that we pay registrars and we pay to hold elections... These are paid for from tax dollars... If we believe that voting is important than anything that we can do to encourage it is worth it... ACORN is a bargain... They register one heck of a lot of people for alot less than we spend for a few hours on the Iraq War... (But, Bobert, they register a disporportionate number of poor people...) So??? Is that a bad thing??? (Well, yeah... That's a bad thing because poor people tend to vote for the Dems...) So??? Poor people are underrepresented in this democracy and according to the preemble of the Constitution the governemnt is supposed to be of the people and for the people... (But not *those* people, Bobert... Wink, wink...) Well, folks... This is the crux of the argument here... The Repubs just wnat the "real" Americians (wink, wink) voting... That is the bottom line here... In other words... People like them who aren't, ahhhh, different... This is what this is all about with ACORN... If ACORN were signing people up to vote as NASCAR events then the Repubs wouldn't say a word... But when ACORN goes out and registers people who traditionally have been disenfranchised the Repubs go into that righteous indignation act... Give me a break... This attack on ACORN is just thinly veiled racism... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:35 PM Milwaukee Police Association endorses John McCain, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:23 PM So Amos is among the elitists who believe it is acceptable for ACORN to take his money and bribe people to fill out multiple fraudulent voter registration forms? AR......1998......A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards. CO......2004......An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times. CO......2005......Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations. FL......2004......A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was "singled out" among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was "the common thread" in the agency's fraud investigations. MI......2004......The Detroit Free Press reported that "overzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters." ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents. MO......2007......Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 election. MO......2006......Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in prison for forging signatures and submitting false information. MO......2003......Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally. NC......2004......North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards. NM......2005......Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group's Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: "It's safe to say the forgery was widespread." NM ......2004......An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was "manufacturing voters" throughout New Mexico. OH......2007......A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties. OH......2004......A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called "blatantly false" forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group. MN......2004......During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed. PA......2008......An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail. PA......2004......Reading's Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was "absolutely out of hand," and added: "Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations." The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice. TX......2004......ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters "The signature is not my signature. It's not even close." His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect. VA......2005......In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law. ----In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally," they wrote, "information appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with § 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia." WA......2007......Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive. WI......2004......The district attorney's office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, "an apparent violation of state law," according to the paper. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:52 PM Yeah ... let's talk about how much $money$ has been spent on this damned never ending election ... Republicans and Democrats .... christ, it could probably cost less to have every child in the U.S. access to adequate health care. ouch ... goddammit a gerbal just bit my finger. I'm outta here. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Amos Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:48 PM So Sawz thinks it is okay to impugn others and put words in their mouths in order to make those who do not agree with him look as dark as possible? Take a Slimeball Bow, Sawbrain. Your concern over registration fraud is admirable; but why are you so unconcerned about the much, much larger frauds perpetrated by your friend W. and company? Blood in the sand and 10 billion a month down the tube kinda makes registration cards take on a more appropriate perspective? You want fraud, how about Bushie-boy's "the Constitution is a piece of paper" series, or his fascinating string of cons under the guise of "above-the-law" signing statements? Ohh, I know!! How about WMD and ICBMS bristling on the borders of Iraq, aimed at the United STates? There's a fraud for you./ Give me a break, here, and let's discuss something important. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:22 PM So Bobert thinks it is Ok for his taxes to be used to bribe people with cash and Cigs to fill out multiple fradulent voter registration forms even though filling out a false voter registration form is a federal offense. Take a bow Bobert. NYT: "Ms. Kingsley's description of the embezzlement differed from the organization's. In an interview July 8, Ms. Lewis said 90 percent of the $948,607 Mr. Rathke's brother embezzled came from Acorn and the rest from its charity affiliates. But Ms. Kingsley reported that $215,000 was charged to an Acorn American Express card paid by the Acorn Beneficial Association, a pension fund that has been replaced by a new Acorn pension fund. After the embezzlement was discovered, the Acorn Beneficial Association wrote off the embezzlement as a gift to Acorn." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:37 PM Even if that bizarre comment of Rig had been accurate, it would not in any way be relevant to the question of whether the New York Post is a credible source or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:23 AM "The New York Post isn't a particularly credible source." But we have people on these thread quoting the DailyKos and MoveOn.org, which are about as credible as quotes from the KKK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bobert Date: 25 Oct 08 - 09:46 AM No, Sawz, I don't think it is wrong that ACORN gets money to help get voters registered... That is a good thing... Sure, like any organization, there are gonna be a few bad apples... That, my friend, is life... I mean, lets compare ACORN with the medical profession... I think that most of US would agree that being a doctor is a noble profession but then we hear about doctors who submit bogus bills to Medicare??? Or take the military... I think we would agree that our servicemen are out there doing a good thing and then we hear about someone killing innocent Iraqis??? I mean, lets get back into the real world, Sawz, where, yes, some people do nor behave as we would like them to behave... That is life... Why would you hold ACORN to a higher standard than you would the medical profession or the military??? BTW, our county Sherrif, Danny Presgraves, who is a nice enough guy, was just arrested on 22 counts of all kinds of crimes... Oh yeah, he is a Republican... I guess that makes every Repu7blican in the country a crook??? Bad logic on yer part, Sawz... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:44 AM The New York Post isn't a particularly credible source. In this case, the Post has taken a real story, and they've taken out important parts of it, and added others that they've invented themselves, and they're passing that off as "news". But it's still largely a fabrication. There is an organization called Vote From Home that is encouraging voters in Ohio to vote early to avoid the kinds of problems Ohio voters experienced in the last two elections that caused large numbers of them to be disenfranchised - that being the long lines at the polling places that prevented a lot of people from being able to vote. Some of the members of this organization who came to Ohio from other states to help out and were in residence in Ohio at the time, wanted to be able to vote where they were in Ohio instead of having to go back to their home states to vote. They thought that because they had taken up temporary residence in Ohio, they would be allowed to vote there. But they were not aware of a law in Ohio that stipulates a minimum required length of residence in order for people to be able to vote in that state. The state isn't prosecuting them because the prosecutor in the case has said there was no evidence of criminal intent. There was just ignorance of the law. When people get their "news" (propaganda) from people and organizations that have axes to grind, they don't get the truth. Mostly they get lies. This is one of those cases, as is most of what is being reported in the media about ACORN. All of this propaganda that is being promoted by sources like FOX and the New York Post is geared toward helping the Republicans in their efforts to disenfranchise legitimate voters and to cast doubts on the results of the election if Obama wins. They are not protecting democracy, they are undermining democracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:02 AM CarolC, One, who was of the ones, who I posted you about, was from Stanford. was on the 'news', tonight. They had the website, that posted it, but I don't remember then name. Heard it on Greta Van Sustern, 'On the Record',(Fox). Pull it back up from the circular file...umm, try http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242008/news/politics/nyers_swing__miss_135036.htm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:30 AM Well, I just did a search, and I didn't find any actual news reports about 18 people withdrawing their votes. So unless some documentation is provided, I think I'll consign that one to the circular file. On the subject of Bush administration and Justice Department complicity... 'The current spate of trumped-up allegations of "voter fraud" coming from John McCain's campaign and his Republican allies and the FBI's decision to investigate represents exactly the same sort of politicization of justice that is at the root of an ongoing investigation into the firing of federal prosecutors, Barack Obama's campaign alleges. Obama attorney Bob Bauer has asked Attorney General Michael Mukasey to expand the authority of the special prosecutor appointed to investigate the US Attorney firings to also include the fraud allegations. The campaign released a seven-page letter (.pdf) Bauer wrote to Mukasey on Friday requesting the investigation. "Now, on the emerging evidence of recent conduct undertaken by Bush Administration officials, Republican Party officials, and representatives of the McCain-Palin campaign," he wrote, "it appears that further misconduct of the same nature, directly relevant to the work of the Special Prosecutor, requires that the scope of the Special Prosecutor's assignment be expanded." Bauer cites the case of former US Attorney David Iglesias, who represented the District of New Mexico until 2006. Bush administration officials reportedly conspired to sack Iglesias in part because of his unwillingness to bring specious voter-fraud charges before an election. Iglesias this week called the voter fraud investigations a scare tactic and said he was shocked to see the FBI was pursuing an investigation based on similarly unmerited accusations of fraud. On a conference call with reporters Friday, Bauer slammed the "illicit involvement of senior law enforcement officials" in leaking the details of the so-called fraud investigation. The Obama lawyer noted that the leak came "literally within 24 hours" of McCain's statement at Wednesday night's debate that ACORN was threatening the "fabric of our democracy." The McCain campaign has turned attacking ACORN into a central theme of its campaign in recent weeks, with vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin continuing the assault at a rally in Ohio on Friday. The community organization, witch which Obama has previously been involved, has produced a relatively small number of inaccurate registration forms in connection with its drive to sign up a million new voters, but it has not been registering voters directly on Obama's behalf and there's no evidence that it's actions in this or any previous election cycle have led to widespread voter fraud. Bauer said the "reckless and incendiary" attacks from the McCain campaign were aimed more at intimidating voters than at ferreting out fraud. ACORN primarily registered low-income and minority voters, and voting rights advocates fear those voters might not turn out on Election Day to avoid potential harassment at the polls. The Supreme Court also delivered a setback to the GOP on Friday, ruling against Ohio Republicans who have been feuding with the Secretary of State over registration rules. Bauer said the conduct he outlines is "directly relevant" to the special prosecutor's investigation and requested a meeting with Mukasey to discuss expanding the investigation. "Once is more than enough," he wrote. "The Department has yet to recover its credibility after the calamitous politicization of its mission in this Administration and the documented misconduct ... that resulted from the corrupt injection of politics into federal law enforcement."' http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_campaign_wants_Attorneygate_prosecutor_to_1017.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:06 AM From: CarolC Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:56 AM 'And they definitely ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law along with the members of the Bush administration and the Justice Department who have aided and abetted them in this widespread election fraud.' The Bush administration???....Huh?? Missed that part. Tell me more! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM ooops. typo.. CarolC, It was on the 'news', tonight. Eighteen got caught, and withdrew their votes. 700 more suspected |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:56 AM And by flagging the suspect registration forms and alerting the officials that they were suspect, ACORN complied with the law. However, by holding on to the forms and then acting as though they had discovered them all on their own, rather than being alerted about them by ACORN, the election officials involved are the ones who are committing voter registration fraud, and by using that as an excuse to disenfranchise legitimate voters, they are also committing widespread election fraud, in violation of the law. And they definitely ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law along with the members of the Bush administration and the Justice Department who have aided and abetted them in this widespread election fraud. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:17 AM RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN Okay, the truth about ACORN, is it is a corrupt political organization. A good place to start, to prepare one for higher office....and that's the truth! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:14 AM Obama's ACORN-defending lawyers Twice in the last week, the Obama campaign's general counsel, Robert F. Bauer of the Perkins & Cole law firm, has written U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey, seeking to shut down the reported FBI investigation of ACORN and others. Instead, Bauer says, there should be a probe of those who have voiced concerns of voter registration fraud, claiming it's an intimidation effort designed to suppress voter turnout. As the Obama campaign's first letter claimed on Oct. 17, "Voter registration impropriety does not constitute actual vote fraud." It asserts that registration concerns are "manufactured allegations of fraud." Federal law treats registration fraud more seriously, as it should. Even an attempt to register falsely is a federal crime, punishable by up to five years in prison. The penalty is the same for those who aid or abet that effort. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:43 AM *excuse |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:42 AM I don't think ACORN is wrong for employing people to register voters. I think it's wrong for the Republicans to lie about what ACORN is doing and use those lies as a excise to disenfranchise voters. In fact, not only is it wrong, it's also illegal. If Obama's request for a special prosecutor to look into the conspiracy between the Republican Party, the Bush administration, and the Justice Department to engage in widespread election fraud is granted, we will likely see some indictments, and even some convictions of those responsible. That will be a good day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:09 AM Sawzaw, when I see your name in threads and skim your posts I assume you are taking a conservative Republican position and I assume you are wrong about the "facts" you purport to be reporting. Anyone else get the same reading from this character? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:02 AM Obama & Acorn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Sawzaw Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:49 AM Well Well Well, I see a whole lot of hemin and hawin around, side steppin etc. but I don't see no hands in tha air. So it is unanimous that CC, Bobert an everbody thinks ACORN is wrong for takin taxpayer money to pay people to fill out false registrations and bribe people with cash and cigarettes to fill out multiple registrations. OK then. Next question needin a straight answer: If ya think it is OK for Obama to claim he has never had anything to do with ACORN when in fact he has, raise up your hands for all to see. Obama's campaign website states: Fact: Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity. The Journal Social Policy Chicago Photo of Obama and ACORN members Case Study: The Barack Obama Campaign written by Toni Foulkes, a Chicago ACORN Leader. "Obama took the case, known as ACORN vs. Edgar, the governor at the time, and we won. Obama then went on to run a voter registration project with Project VOTE in 1992 that made it possible for Carol Moseley Braun to win the Senate that year. Project VOTE delivered 50,000 newly registered voters in that campaign. ACORN delivered about 5,000 of them. Since then, we have invited Obama to our leadership training sessions to run the session on power every year, and, as a result, many of our newly developing leaders got to know him before he ever ran for office. Thus it was natural for many of us to be active volunteers in his first campaign for State Senate and then his failed bid for U.S. Congress in 1996. By the time he ran for U.S. Senate, we were old friends.""Project VOTE" in 1992 was undertaken in direct partnership with ACORN. The Los Angeles Times March 2, 2008: "At the time, Talbot worked at the social action group ACORN and initially considered Obama a competitor. But she became so impressed with his work that she invited him to help train her staff." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Oct 08 - 11:29 PM So, OK, the Republicans are on the warpath, out to prove that ACRON is involved in all this illegal, immoral stuff. But they haven't gotten very far with it. Logic tells me that next they have to prove that all this nasty stuff had something to do with Obama. By that time, the election will be over and Obama will be president. I think the electorate is getting jaded, that they no longer believe empty allegations because there have been so many of them. It's "The Boy Who Cried 'Wolf' Syndrome," I think. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:28 PM I echo the above post... I wouldn't trust anything coming out of the right wing lobbying organizations or think tanks on the subject of ACORN. They want ACORN out of the way, and they will say and do anything to make that a reality. If ACORN has internal problems, it needs to clean them up. But their efforts on behalf of the poor and disenfranchised shouldn't be disrupted in the process. The Republicans and right-wingers who are trashing ACORN want to shut ACORN down, not help it become a better organization, because ACORN stands in the way of their having total control over the lives of the poor and disenfranchised. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:22 PM I'm not a Democrat any more than I am a Republican. But it is a fact that under Democratic administrations the poor tend to do a lot better than they do under Republican administrations. While I think the Democrats could do a way better job of advocating for the poor (or better yet, moving people out of that category altogether), it is nevertheless throwing the baby out with the bathwater (and in the process, hurting the poor) if people try to eliminate organizations like ACORN just because one doesn't like the fact that they are involved with Democrats. We don't have a socialist or communist party in this country, and we never will. So the Democrats are the best hope the poor in this country have. Instead of undermining the Democrats, I think it would be far kinder to the poor in this country to try to make the Democratic party better and more responsive to those at the bottom of the economic ladder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:49 PM bILL, epionline is a multi million dollar right wing lobby located on K Street next to many other full time lobby corporations. They do not disclose the clients they shill for, but if you read all their "alleged" research, you might think that at least one would underscore or support a single Democratic reform. You sir will not be thrown to the wolves. At most we will have a Gerbil affectionatly nibble your finger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:17 PM If I lived in the U.S. I'd be labeled a communist ... I wouldn't affiliate myself with either the Republicans or the Democrats ... I feel either party has not done enough for it's people. Look at the state your country is now ... yes the Republicans are certainly guilty, one can't argue that, but the Democrats could have done more. Anyway ... just because Acorn is tied close to the Democrat party it does not grant them complete immunity of all misgivings. there is a lot of money involved with this organization .... a lot of money tied to the Democrats .... a lot of $money$ lays way to greed. This is evident in the link below. embezzlment now go throw me to the wolves. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Donuel Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:05 PM People from Boston are now getting letters that they will not be allowed to vote if they can not prove their citizenship. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bobert Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM The entire ACORN story is bogus... These folks go oyut and collect registration forms... Period... They *** do not*** put people on the voting rolls... They collect forms... Registrars put people on the rolls... That is the real story that John McCain does not wnat you to know!!! Why??? Well, his lawyers are trying to soften up the courts for the possibility of an onslaugt of law suits after the election... I've often predicted that it would take over a 5% victory by Obama for the Repubs to accept the outcome without trying a repeat of their very successful 2000 legal challenge which was used to stop the recount in Florida... So, I hope that the percentages that the polls are showing today hold up or if you think the $700B Bailout was unbelievable then you ain't seen nuthin' yet when the Repubs unleash an army of lawyers on courts all across this country... I hope this doesn't happen because it would definately bring about alot of violence, the kind we have not seen since the 60's and might even take the country into a major uncivil war with neigbors shooting at each other... Don't think this can happen??? Just look at how pissed off the folks are who attend the Palin rallies... Hey, I'm watchin' these folks... Some of my neighbors are just like those people and guess what... They have guns and so do I... I've been trying to use a little humor with 'um but it ain't easu listening to folks talk about how Obama should be hung... Yeah, I've heard it... These folks know that I make a lot of jokes and everything but these folks ain't stable people... They are definately pissed off people who blame all their problems on Obama... So I'm hopin' for a ***clean*** landslide so that it doesn't end up in the courts and doesn't pit neighbor against neighbor.... That's about the only result that these people might accept... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM This seems to be another case of what Mark Twain wrote: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:59 PM Yes, I think it's lacking in compassion to help the Republicans spread lies about an organization that is helping disenfranchised people to vote, and that helps poor people come closer to realizing what people in this country call the "American dream". Without ACORN, such people will be fending for themselves. And this is why the Republicans are working so hard to undermine ACORN's work. Because they don't like for poor people in this country to have any advocates at all. The Republicans are responsible for destroying most of the safety net we had in this country. They are responsible for almost destroying the unions in this country, and they are now trying to destroy the last hope that the people who have been hurt the most by their activities have... organizations like ACORN, who advocate on behalf of the poor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:58 PM "f that's the case, then such people should never vote for a Republican, since they've been rigging the elections since 2000." I won't argue that at all ... If that is the truth I certainly agree. I'm just debating Acorn since that is the topic of this thread. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:56 PM *sigh*...Rig... that ACORN story you are flogging would be quite a problem *IF* it were true, so you just-keep-repeating-it as if it were. I can't tell whether you simply get all your news from Fox and O'Reilly who won't tell you the truth, or whether you just LIKE the story so well that you believe what you want to believe, or whether you are just playing troll to keep the pot boiling. Whatever...you are not getting it....and now you couldn't back down if the truth bit you on the ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:53 PM crossposted |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:53 PM If that's the case, then such people should never vote for a Republican, since they've been rigging the elections since 2000. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:52 PM I'm not undermining the work of organizations that help the unfortunate ... far from it. I am angry such organizations such as Acorn (whose purpose is gallant) but have fallen to the way side either from greed, or losing sight of their purpose ... me lacking in compassion ?? ... if that is your judgment of someone you don't know, so let it be. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:51 PM Some of us don't think that rigging an election is an occupation that people should be engaged in, poor or otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:46 PM I'm not suggesting that anyone who is financially fortunate (or whatever) should apologize or feel guilty for their situation. I think such people should count their blessings. I am suggesting that to try to undermine the work of organizations that help poor people, when the person doing the undermining isn't one of the ones who will suffer if such organizations cease to exist, is short sighted, at best, and lacking in compassion at worst. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:39 PM Just to let ya know I'm not financially comfortable ... financially fortunate, yes .... and I am fortunate to live in the country I do. There is no need for me to apologize or feel guilty of these good fortunes. Enough of this anyway ... who really gives a rats ass overall. I do advocate a decent livable salary, decent working conditions for all and access to health care for all people, regardless of borders. All right wing / left wing political affiliations asides, there appears to be a stink arising from the executive offices of Acorn ... and we will know the truth in the next few weeks. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:34 PM No it hasn't. The lie is that ACORN is purposely trying to submit false registrations. That is a lie. The truth is that ACORN employees have done that, and that ACORN has done an excellent job of weeding them out and turning them over to the authorities. Which is exactly the opposite of trying to submit false registrations. But who cares about the truth when the empire is at stake, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:29 PM Except it's not a lie. It's been verified in hundreds of cases. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:28 PM Funny thing about lies and exaggerations that fail the truth test....you have to just keep repeating them as if they WERE true, or you have to backtrack. That's what comes of repeating stupid rumors before checking them out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:17 PM ...as I said before, I don't think people who keep trying to spread that lie about ACORN are doing John McCain any favors. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:15 PM Obama does not have ACORN trying to register bogus voters. And the accusation by the McCain campaign and the Republican Party that he is, is a part of the sleaze that they're engaging in. And considering the fact that McCain voted with Bush more than 90 percent of the time (by McCain's own admission), it's perfectly legitimate to tie McCain to GW Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:10 PM I suppose if Hilary Clinton had been the candidate Rig would have been singing from a different hymn sheet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:06 PM Well, he's got that ACORN outfit out there trying to register bogus voters. And he's running advertisements trying to tie McCain to George W. Bush--how sleezy does it get? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Bill D Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM It's McCain staff & supporter who are leaving THEIR campaign because of disgust with the tone...not Obama's. Simply stating that "...the Obama campaign is even sleezier." is not exactly convincing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:50 PM It actually isn't. The McCain campaign has definitely reached new lows for sleaziness in this campaign. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: Riginslinger Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:47 PM The only problem with that analogy is, the Obama campaign is even sleezier. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN From: CarolC Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:42 PM The $800,000 that people are saying (rather dishonestly) Obama contributed to ACORN ("no strings attached")was paid to an ACORN subsidiary in the form of a fee for services related to getting voters to go to the polls on election day in the primary and had nothing whatever to do with voter registration. There's a reason McCain isn't yelling too loudly about ACORN any more. McCain supporters ought to take note (because they're making their candidate look bad) It's because he, himself has employed people who have committed voter fraud... 'John McCain's campaign has directed $175,000 to the firm of a Republican operative accused of massive voter registration fraud in several states. According to campaign finance records, a joint committee of the McCain-Palin campaign, the RNC and the the California Republican Party, made a $175,000 payment to the group Lincoln Strategy in June for purposes of "registering voters." The managing partner of that firm is Nathan Sproul, a renowned GOP operative who has been investigated on multiple occasions for suppressing Democratic voter turnout, throwing away registration forms and even spearheading efforts to get Ralph Nader on ballots to hinder the Democratic ticket. In a letter to the Justice Department last October, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers said that that Sproul's alleged activities "clearly suppress votes and violate the law." That Sproul would come under the employment umbrella of the McCain campaign -- the Republican National Committee has also separately paid Lincoln Strategy at least $37,000 for voter registration efforts this cycle -- is not terribly surprising. Sproul, who has donated nearly $30,000 to McCain's campaign, has been in the good graces of GOP officials for the past decade despite charges of ethical and potentially legal wrongdoing. But his involvement with the Republican Party's voter registration efforts has the potential to create a political and public relations headache at a time when McCain can ill-afford one. For weeks the Arizona Republican and his allies have been seeking to tie Barack Obama to the community organization ACORN, which they have accused of potentially committing massive voter registration fraud. Sproul's contract with the GOP ticket -- in addition to news of Republican officials attempting to suppress Democratic turnout in California -- raises, for some, questions about McCain's own efforts. "It should certainly take away from McCain's argument," said Bob Grossfeld, a progressive political consultant based in Arizona who has followed Sproul's career. "Without knowing anything of what is going on with ACORN, there is a clear history with Mr. Sproul either going over the line or sure as hell kicking dirt on it, and doing it for profit and usually fairly substantive profit." As Republican Congressman Chris Cannon summarized during a joint hearing for the subcommittee on commercial and administrative law back in May 2008: "The difference between ACORN and Sproul is that ACORN doesn't throw away or change registration documents after they have been filled out." Indeed, Sproul's history is filled with allegations of political misdeeds. During the 2004 election, Sproul & Associates (the former name of Lincoln Strategy) was accused of attempting to destroy forms collected by Democratic voters in Nevada. That same year in Oregon, Sproul & Associates allegedly instructed canvassers to only accept Republican registration forms in addition to destroying those turned in by Democrats.' http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/mccain-employing-gop-oper_n_136254.html 'SACRAMENTO -- The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario over the weekend on suspicion of voter registration fraud. State and local investigators allege that Mark Jacoby fraudulently registered himself to vote at a childhood California address where he no longer lives so he would appear to meet the legal requirement that all signature gatherers be eligible to vote in California. His firm, Young Political Majors, or YPM, collects petition signatures and registers voters in California and other states. Jacoby's arrest by state investigators and the Ontario Police Department late Saturday came after dozens of voters said they were duped into registering as Republicans by people employed by YPM. The voters said YPM workers tricked them by saying they were signing a petition to toughen penalties against child molesters. The firm was paid $7 to $12 for every Californian it registered as a member of the GOP. Dan Goldfine, an attorney for Jacoby, on Sunday denied any wrongdoing by his client and called the charges "baseless." He said the arrest outside an Ontario hotel, which involved seven squad cars and nine police officers, was part of a "long pattern of harassment against Mr. Jacoby for an entirely valid voter registration effort." Goldfine said the case that prosecutors are bringing against his client involves charges that are rarely pressed. Jacoby was released on bail Sunday evening from the West Valley Detention Center in Rancho Cucamonga, Goldfine said. After complaints by voters and Democratic Party officials, several agencies launched investigations into Jacoby's activities. They included the Los Angeles County district attorney's office, which issued the warrant for his arrest earlier this month on felony charges of voter registration fraud and perjury. "We contacted people at the addresses where he registered, and they have no idea who he is," said Dave Demerjian, head deputy of the public integrity unit at the L.A. County district attorney's office. Goldfine said his client does business in many states, traveling frequently, and his permanent address has been his parents' Los Angeles County home, where he received mail and registered to vote. Demerjian said his office is continuing to investigate allegations that YPM workers improperly re-registered voters with the GOP. Several dozen voters recently told The Times that YPM workers said they had to become Republicans to sign the petition, contrary to California initiative law. Other voters said they had no idea their registration was being changed. YPM has been accused of using bait-and-switch tactics across the country. Election officials and lawmakers have launched investigations into the activities of YPM workers in Florida and Massachusetts. In Arizona, the firm was recently a defendant in a civil rights lawsuit. In a written statement Sunday, the state Republican Party called the charges against Jacoby "politically motivated." The party said the charges do not support accusations from voters and Democratic officials that YPM has been duping voters into joining the GOP.' http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story I think this kind of stuff is one of the reasons Republicans are moving to the Obama camp in such large numbers. The Republicans who have any personal integrity at all are seeing the sleazy, dishonest, and slimy way that John McCain is running his campaign and they don't want to be a part of that sort of thing. |
