BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 08:17 AM

So does Zimmerman get his gun back now? Any restrictions?

Yes he does Wes, and no there aren't. In fact his loud-mouted gobshite of a lawyer - see BullshitBruce's post, above - was bragging about a day ago about the fact he would get it back and that Zimmerman needed the gun now 'more than ever', or words to that effect.

So get ready for a few more dead Black teenagers.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 08:11 AM

We are so programmed by our history with race in America that reaction to the acquittal of George Zimmerman on charges of murdering Trayvon Martin depends largely upon one's individual, even group experience.

If you are African-American, you might react like former Washington, D.C., homicide detective Rod Wheeler. Appearing on Fox News, Wheeler said many blacks look at quarterback Michael Vick, jailed for taking part in an illegal dog-fighting ring, and wonder why Zimmerman gets away with killing a young black man.

If you are white, or Hispanic, you could possibly see the trial as something whipped up by the always racially conscious media and rhetorical bomb-throwers like Rev. Al Sharpton. You might conclude that if the victim had been white and the perpetrator black the media would have shown little or no interest. Your view would be reinforced by a case in Georgia in which four African-American teenagers beat a 36-year-old white man as he emerged from a gas station convenience store. While trying to escape, the man stumbled into the middle lane of a highway where he was struck by a car and killed. The Marietta Daily Journal reported that the four are charged with felony murder, aggravated assault and violation of the Georgia Street Gang Act. The incident occurred two weeks ago, but I have seen no national media coverage.

As defense lawyers noted after the Zimmerman verdict, the loss of any life, especially a young one, is a tragedy, but tragedy and race were not on trial in Sanford, Fla. Putting all extraneous considerations aside, the jury of six women was asked if there was sufficient evidence to convict Zimmerman of murder or manslaughter. They found there was not.

The Justice Department says it will look into the shooting death of Martin to determine if evidence in the case "reveals a prosecutable violation." That may turn out to be more of a political decision than one based on facts. It would likely perpetuate the media narrative of blacks as victims and whites (one CNN reporter ludicrously called Zimmerman a "white Hispanic") as descendants of slave masters.

What helps keep us divided is our propensity for labeling and categorizing. Certain behaviors and language are tolerated, while others are not. Some people can get away with language that others cannot. Some faiths can be disparaged while others are insulated from criticism. What is needed is one standard. One national identity. One America. We're not there yet.

Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon Martin's family, compared Trayvon's death to those of Emmett Till and Medgar Evers. Any attempt to turn Trayvon into a civil rights martyr similar to Till and Evers goes well beyond the apples and oranges analogy. More to the point was a comment by Zimmerman's attorney Don West: "The prosecution of George Zimmerman was disgraceful." The defense believes he should never have been brought to trial. Co-defense counsel Mark O'Mara speculated about "how many lawsuits will be spawned by this fiasco."

Probably quite a few, given our never-ending racial double standard. As both sides have noted, there are no winners in this case.

Read more here: http://www.sunherald.com/2013/07/15/4797984/cal-thomas-zimmerman-verdict-and.html#storylink=cpy

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 08:10 AM

I see a lot of hate here- for Zimmerman, anyone who does not think he is 100% responsible for Martin's death, anyone who questions the resident racsts Greggie and Bobert, anyone who questions Don's pronouncements of "fact", ...


Lots of hate, and mostly by those who claim to be "liberals".


Bunch of haters- anyone who disagrees, all conservatives, anyone stating a fact they do'n like...

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 07:57 AM

NEW YORK (Reuters) - George Zimmerman's chief defense lawyer on Monday called Florida prosecutors "a disgrace to my profession" for holding back evidence for months and pledged a new effort to impose sanctions against them.

Mark O'Mara and co-counsel Don West argued the self-defense case that helped Zimmerman win an acquittal of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges on Saturday for the 2012 shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin.

The law requires prosecutors to share evidence with defense attorneys, especially if it helps exonerate defendants. The requirement is known as the Brady disclosure.

O'Mara accused prosecutors of several Brady violations, which were heard by Judge Debra Nelson before the trial. Nelson postponed some of her decisions on sanctions until after trial, saying the process was time-consuming.

"This is not acceptable, and is not going to be tolerated in any case that I'm involved in," O'Mara told Reuters in New York on Monday, accusing special prosecutor Angela Corey and lead trial attorney Bernie de la Rionda of Brady violations.

"They are a disgrace to my profession," O'Mara said, referring specifically to de la Rionda and Corey. "They said my client was 'lucky' to have been acquitted. Really?"

Corey responded that O'Mara's comments were unprofessional and challenged him to point to any judge's ruling that her office improperly withheld evidence.

"Our office adhered to the highest standards of ethical behavior," Corey told Reuters in a telephone interview. "Our rules of professional conduct regulate comments like that. I don't think those are the kind of comments that are appropriate."

Her office confirmed last week that it had fired its information technology director, Ben Kruidbos, who had testified in a pre-trial hearing that files he created with text messages and images he retrieved from Martin's phone were not handed to the defense.

Kruidbos testified last month that he found embarrassing photos on Martin's phone that included pictures of a clump of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol.

O'Mara said he intends to amend his request for sanctions against the prosecutors in light of testimony from the trial, calling prosecutors' failure to turn over data from Martin's phone records for months "an undeniable Brady violation."

Prosecutors handed over raw data from Martin's phone, but O'Mara accused them of withholding additional data that had been extracted by Kruidbos. Corey countered that the judge determined the defense was in possession.

O'Mara has quarreled with the prosecutors since they charged Zimmerman last year and has become increasingly aggressive in his criticism of the prosecution since his client's acquittal.

A jury in Sanford, Florida, found Zimmerman not guilty of second-degree murder and manslaughter after a three-week trial in which defense lawyers argued that the neighborhood watch volunteer, shot Martin in self-defense.



http://news.yahoo.com/zimmermans-lawyer-calls-prosecutors-disgrace-profession-025529776.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 03:42 AM

Another thing I spotted above.

Many Zimmerman apologists argue that a fit 17 year old should have had not trouble beating up Zimmerman who they depict as a waddling obese fat fuck of a little weakling - but who was the member of a mixed martial arts gymn? Zimmerman.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 02:48 AM

Firth: "Goofball, you are the only one here who is blathering on about hate."

You're right!...The rest of you are about doing it!..and positioning yourselves to justify it!

Do you think that 'racial profiling' is about 'love'??
..and so many people are really pissed off and indignant about this being a 'racial hate crime'...right?
I mean if Zimmerman, or anyone for that matter, was thinking when they see somebody for the first time, and think, or say, "Nigger", and then confront the guy, I don't imagine the person thinking or saying that is using it as a term of endearment!...So you could WELL imagine(being as that's what everybody is doing)..you could WELL imagine that the person thinking it or saying it, is going to have a hostile chip on their shoulder, once they have to interact with each other, don't you? ...and much has been said about Zimmerman, and the debate is whether he had a racial hostile chip on his shoulder, when he first encountered Martin, that I imagine that the tones of voice would pretty much convey that..right??...I mean racial shit is still racial shit..right?..and if he's thinking 'nigger' I imagine that the air is going to be filled with tension...right?..So escalation is going to go REAL fast...right?
The prosecution entered a piece of evidence, that nobody seemed to zero in on....had they have done that, the racial element would have been clear....but there WAS a racial element, and it made it's way into evidence...right before they confronted each other, Martin described Zimmerman as a "creepy-ass cracker"
Does THAT count??????????...I mean, it IS a racial slur, isn't it????

I rest my case, on that one!
Nonetheless, maybe more focus on loving our fellow man, instead of looking for loopholes to look the other way!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 01:13 AM

Yep, Elmore, you're right. Guess he won't be uppity no more.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 01:10 AM

Goofball, you are the only one here who is blathering on about hate.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 11:52 PM

..and picked a fight with a guy who he didn't think might be armed...and he had a cell phone in his HAND, and didn't call police!
'Stupid is as stupid does"~~Forrest Gump

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 10:48 PM

Yup GfS: Trayvon was stupid alright. He thought he could smoke a little weed, walk to the store to get rid of the munchies, and walk home without getting blown away by some busybody white guy. Guess he learned his lesson.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 10:21 PM

U Guest It: "Obama blames it all for the bad things he did when in office and proceeded with "Thanks for blaming it on the White guy."

Or something like that!

All I'm saying, is if people hate, and promote it, or justify it, nothing gets any better. The 'change' must first start within US, if we want anybody to know what we're talking about!..and offer help. I think the 'Blame Game' is just a thing to do, instead of reconciling within us, to be able to be free of hate, and show them that there is a better way.."Here, Ill show you!"

As I used to tell my kids, and musicians I'd play with, "If you want to be different, be excellent!"

As contrast: Zimmerman was stupid, Martin was stupid, the trial was stupid, and nobody can agree on anything..and that's stupid!
No wonder you're pissed off!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 09:56 PM

Reminds me of the following.

George Bush apologized for the bad things he did when in office and proceeded with "Thanks for blaming it on the Black guy."

Huh.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 09:56 PM

I am really astonished at two things that are being underplayed here.

Juicy Brucie fails to see that "What are YOU doing HERE" is a remarkably clear equivalent to "Hey nigger, what are you doing in the white part of town".

Second Juicy Brucie can assert that Martin should have been respectful. What should he have said - "Yassah massa boss us jokie folks allus happy to clean yo'shoes"?

Brucie's argument rings with racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 09:47 PM

So let's all hate '**' now..it'll be good practice???
Maybe we can get so good at hating, that it never gets better, and that way we can get our 'fix'!......as in an addiction!

You get real...if you want to end racial hating, then end it!
These IS another way!

Both sides have their point..surely 'understanding' the FULL picture isn't limiting, is it?
..I mean it may just encroach on the hate part though..but GOOD!

You keep hating, and you prolong any change.

Sure, it's a bummer wrought of stupidity...let's wise up, and hate stupidity...or just keep doing it. Which side do you want to fall on?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 09:37 PM

So does Zimmerman get his gun back now? Any restrictions?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 09:11 PM

Yup...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 08:58 PM

Just to clarify, Bobster, does * = B ?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 08:45 PM

Let's get real here, GfinS...

Most of the hate that can be found in this thread is by you and one other person... Always there to defend Zimmerman as if Zimmerman was God himself... Never passed up an opportunity to heap defense on top of defense on Zimmerman...

You and your buddy, **, own 90% of the hate here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 08:29 PM

So what is this?..a contest of who can justify their hate, and then thinking hate is going to fix it????
The energy you put into a system, tends to CHANGE that system.
What energy were you planning to put into it?
I'll give you a clue, hatred and resentment, ain't going to be the one that fixes it! That's the one you're alleging that you don't like...isn't it??..the same one you're hoping you're right about???

Think About It,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 08:21 PM

Zimmerman in hiding. Wannabe cop ashamed of himself?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 07:24 PM

In injustice that was on display in this case has everything to do with the South's past and how little Southerners have done to correct those problems...

They have fought everything in the way of progress tooth and nail and continue to this very day to try to find ways to re-segregate, discriminate and to give white people an unfair advantage...

Voter laws requiring voter ID is a prime example... What these states are requiring is a "certified birth certificate" to get one of these ID cards... Does anyone here know what getting a certified birth certificate means??? It means that like in the state of South Carolina some 80,000 elderly black people, most who have voted for decades, have cast their last votes for the crime of being born at home???

Serious business... That's the deal...

Anyone who thinks that white Southerners ain't up to playing some seriously bad games on black folks is delusional... Pure and simple delusional...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 07:17 PM

That's right, Q, just another Southern apologist.


We didn't know said the congregation,
Singing a hymn in a church of white.
The Press was full lf lies about us,
Preacher told us we were right.
The outside agitators came.
They burned some churches and put the blame,
On decent southern people's names,
To set our colored people aflame.
And maybe some of our boys got hot,
And a couple of niggers and reds got shot,
They should have stayed where they belong,
And preacher would've told us if we'd done wrong.

   -Tom Paxton, 1963

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 07:08 PM

Outside agitators did little except create resentment against the valid efforts of southerners, black and white, to come to grips with the past, in court, in law and socially.

None of this has anything to do with the Zimmerman trial, in which the evidence led to acquittal.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:49 PM

Have you ever been there (the South)- except as a trouble-maker?

Yeah, Q, I've been there. And exactly how long did YOU spend there, and when? And how long have you been gone?

Trouble-maker? You mean like those outside agitaters Goodwin, Schwerner & Chaney?? Or Emmett Till? Or Medgar Evers?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:43 PM

Watching the national news. The whites say it wasn't about race. Easy for them to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:40 PM

""but there were key moments in the trial that appeared to undermine the prosecution's case for conviction. Here are five of them.""

Error! The prosecution never presented a case for conviction. They deliberately threw the fight by not exposing the holes in Zimmerman's story.

""But in a surprise, the investigator was asked by Zimmerman's lawyer whether he believed Zimmerman was telling the truth, and the cop answered, "Yes."   ""

Objection your honour. The question calls for a conclusion by the witness. No objection from the prosecution? Abysmal! Then they gave the jurors till the next day to think about it, before asking that it be stricken. Incompetent!

""Serino testified that when Martin's father, Tracy Martin, first heard the tape he said it was not Trayvon. "He looked away and under his breath said, 'No,'" Serino told the court.""

Which could conceivably be the sotto voce expression of a father's grief at hearing his dead son pleading for his life.

Given that Serino ddidn't want to prosecute Zimmerman, Hell! He didn't want to investigate him, he just wanrted to release him and forget the whole thing, just how much credence should have been given to pro Zimmerman testimony from this half baked imitation of a cop?

Also, what judge worthy of the name would permit such cavalier abuse of the rules of evidential admissibility to go unchallenged by the prosecution.

Mind you, the judge also has questions to answer about refusing the balance of admitting the two voice recognition experts, against the admission of the evidence of eight "friends" of Zimmerman.

This whole case and everyone involved in it stinks of a pre-judged outcome.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:34 PM

Greg F, paid my poll tax in Texas back when. Have you ever been there (the South)- except as a trouble-maker?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 06:06 PM

""Most white southerners accept the fact that everyone is equal before the law, in business and government, and should be treated with respect socially as well.""

In business and in government? The one percent with lots of money.

Try selling that one to those black people who are hassled by Florida law enforcement, or try to get fair hearing in a Florida court.

I have several times pointed out that Martin himself had every right to fear Zimmerman and to believe that Zimmerman was likely reaching for a gun, which would give Martin a self defence right.

It has been ignored or rejected by all of our racially non prejudiced fans of George Zimmerman, and was never brought up by a prosecution team which rendered a defence almost superfluous.

Multiply that by a couple of million and you have a clue about justice for blacks (except for those who are rich) in Florida.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:56 PM

Ditto, Spaw.

All best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:40 PM

That's twice today that I have to agree with you, Spawz...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:23 PM

Bruce....You're a fuckin' idiot.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 05:00 PM

By the way, BullshitBruce, the Wall Street Journal says "page unavailable" - which meets the standard of your regular horseshit hands down.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:55 PM

And yet more blogohorseshit postarrhoea from BullshitBruce, signifying less than nothing.

Stronger remedies than paregoric and/or duct tape obviously in order.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:28 PM

The aftermath would be funny if it weren't so sad. Just because we are stuck with this verdict, doesn't mean we have to like it or shut up about it. If our roles were reversed; if GZ had been convicted, there would be an equal or greater amount of bitching and whining.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:26 PM

Sorry, Don T I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:26 PM

Ebbie, I thought he mimed taking it from the side and slightly behind, but I agree with you it does nothing to clear up that issue.

If Don had seen it he would have something to say, I think!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:13 PM

Bingo, Spaw...

In other words??? Justice, Southern style...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:04 PM

Only the six female jurors know for certain what testimony or evidence convinced them to acquit George Zimmerman of murder charges in the death of Trayvon Martin, but there were key moments in the trial that appeared to undermine the prosecution's case for conviction. Here are five of them.
Chris Serino was the lead investigator looking into the shooting of Martin and initially urged the Sanford, Fla., prosecutor to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, a recommendation that was rejected.
Serino was called to the stand by the prosecution and was expected to be a key witness against Zimmerman. In his "just-the-facts" style of answering questions, Serino was repeatedly questioned by the prosecution and defense about Zimmerman's version of what happened that night. But in a surprise, the investigator was asked by Zimmerman's lawyer whether he believed Zimmerman was telling the truth, and the cop answered, "Yes."
The next day the prosecution asked that the jurors be directed to disregard Serino's comment and the judge agreed, but the damage may have been done.
John Good was another prosecution witness whose words may have helped Zimmerman more than the prosecution. Good lived near where the fatal shot was fired and appeared to have had the best view of the brief fight between Zimmerman and Martin.
Good testified that he saw what he believed to be Martin on top of Zimmerman. "The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red," Good said referring to the men's clothing. At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had "lighter skin color."
Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt.
"The person on the bottom, I could hear a 'Help,'" Good said.
Under cross examination by Zimmerman's lawyer, Good said he believes he saw Martin on top punching Zimmerman "MMA style," a reference to mixed martial arts.
"The person on top was ground and pounding the person on the bottom?"asked Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara.
"Correct," said Good
Rachel Jeantel was Trayvon Martin's friend who was talking with him on a cell phone until just moments before Martin was killed. She told the jury that Martin was scared of a "creepy a** cracker" who was following him and just before losing contact with Martin said she heard him say, "Get off. Get off."
But under a grueling cross examination by Zimmerman's lawyer Don West Jeantel conceded that it was difficult to hear what Martin was saying and that she did not know who threw the first punch when Zimmerman and Martin came face to face.
"The last thing you heard was something hitting somebody?" West asked her.
"Trayvon got hit," Jeantel said.
"You don't know that, do you?" the defense lawyer said.
"No sir," she said.
"You don't know that he didn't take his fist and drive it into Zimmerman's face do you?" the lawyer pressed.
"No sir," Jeantel replied.
Renowned forensics expert Vincent Di Maio may have been one of Zimmerman's strongest witnesses. He told the jury that the pattern of powder burns and other forensic evidence on Martin's body indicated that the teenager's sweatshirt was two to four inches away from his body at the time he was shot, meaning that Martin was leaning forward over Zimmerman when he was killed.
"The medical evidence is consistent with his [Zimmerman's] statement," Di Maio told the Florida court.
The words of Trayvon Martin's father were also used to undermine the prosecution's case. A key battle in the trial was over who was heard screaming for help in the background of a 911 call before the fatal shot was fired. Martin's family insisted the voice was their son's voice, while Zimmerman's parents told the court it was Zimmerman screaming.
Serino testified that when Martin's father, Tracy Martin, first heard the tape he said it was not Trayvon. "He looked away and under his breath said, 'No,'" Serino told the court.
A second police officer gave a similar description of Tracy Martin's reaction to the tape.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 04:00 PM

http://live.wsj.com/video/opinion-were-the-zimmerman-verdict-and-trial-fair-2013-07-15-141152221/CC15DF06-D983-424C-99B8-B14F49C

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 03:59 PM

This killing began in the evening when GZ decided to go on "patrol" and put his gun on his hip. The neighborhood watch supervisory people asked that they NOT carry guns but GZ is a wannabe but failed police officer. Upon encountering TM he could have given him a shout in a friendly manner that he was with the neighborhood watch and could they talk for a minute. This is a well used procedure in those groups. If TM had run off he would then have called 911. He called 911 anyway but then quite obviously stated in words having profiling all through them that "these assholes always get away." He was told he didn't need to follow TM, "We don't need you to do that," but he did anyway.

From that point on there are witnesses with bits and pieces of uncertain knowledge on both sides but make no mistake, the fight started because GZ did not do what he was told and disobeyed the tenants of the neighborhood watch. There is no certain evidence as to which was on top when as they were probably both there at different points and the evidence supports that. GZ had very minor injuries and TM hands showed very little sign of being in a fight. A few minutes later TM was dead and GZ was alive and admitted freely that he shot TM.

If the prosecution had started with that simple narrative and ended with it as well, they would have won. GZ exercised his rights under the fifth amendment not to testify so we are left with several of his previously given statements which do not match and were never questioned as they could have been by the prosecution. Trayvon Martin cannot give us a statement. His rights mattered not at all to GZ and now Trayvon Martin has none.

Mark O'Meara is one helluva' fine attorney, the prosecution was less than stellar, and this killing happened because George Zimmerman left his home hoping to perhaps nab the people who had burglarized the neighborhood. He was hoping to be a big hero. He also put his gun on his hip.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 03:43 PM

Another "rational" response, McG...

The problem here is these people are not rational, or mannerly of all that bright... Hence, "What are you doing here" is about all they are capable of... Especially when they got a big gun...

Rude, boorish, angry people hurt people...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:54 PM

If someone is in my neighbourhood and looks as if they are lost, I might ask them if I could help them. I would never dream of saying "What are you doing here?" I would see that as remarkably aggressive bad manners. It would invite a hostile response.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:52 PM

Tell me again how your attacks on people prove anything

Will gladly do so, BullshitBruce, once you've told us all how your truckloads of horseshit prove anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:49 PM

In the South today, many Blacks have been elected to important office

Yup, 'some of their best Negroes are their friends'. (Ochs)

Most white southerners accept the fact that everyone is equal before the law...

Please supply evidence to substantiate this.

Parents instill their inner feelings in their children, often unknowingly

And just as often, knowingly and willingly.

And you come by your expertise on Southerrn culturte & history how, exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:42 PM

So, Bobert, I know you qualify for at least two of those, but are you admitting to the third as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:41 PM

The obvious is only obvious to rational thinking people, Don... Not racists, rednecks and tin-foilers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:41 PM

If it required a brain, Greggie boy, you would be out of the running.


Tell me again how your attacks on people prove anything other than the fact the you have no basis for your opinions other than what you see in your lower intestine.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM

If it's early evening, I have been to the local convenience store, and am walking back to where I am staying, and someone approaches me and says, "What are you doing here?" I think I would be justified in thinking that I am being challenged.

Especially if the person is addressing me in an aggressive and accusatory manner.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk

Daily Mail? Read MORE??? Why would anyone with a brain read it in the FIRST instance, Beardy?

But thanks for the latest truckload of anonymous blogoshit which means less than nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:34 PM

Here in the Charlotte, NC area most of the schools are pretty much segregated... Okay, go to a black high school of a 1000 students and there might be a dozen or so whites kids and most of them transfers so they can play on a better football team... Same with white high schools...

This is by design, people... Southerners love using whatever loopholes there are in laws to try to do things the Southern way... Segregation is the Southern way...

We have two sets of rules here in the South... Kill a black person and that's okay... Kill a white person and it's not...

B~