BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 06:08 PM

The unalterable fact is that when Zimmerman did his duty as a block watch person and called the police about seeing what he construed to be a suspicious person (a black teenager walking home from a convenience store after buying a box of candy), the police told him not to approach the "suspect."

Zimmerman disobeyed the police and confronted Martin anyway.

If Zimmerman had obeyed the police, the whole matter would be sorted out by now. Trayvon Martin would most cartainly still be alive and this whole asininely tragic episode would never have happened.

There was an old Western on television a few decades back called "Have Gun, Will Travel." Whenever you watched the show, you could be damned sure that Paladin was going to shoot somebody before the show was over!

Like the acquaintance I talked about up-thread, undoubtedly Zimmerman was trigger-happy and itching to use his 9 mm. pistol. Otherwise, he would have just sat tight like the police told him to do.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 06:07 PM

You know what Bobert? I'm beginning to like you. I'm beginning to like you a whole lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 06:00 PM

Yup, SJL...

You murder a kid and you do time... Not get a medal from Redneck Nation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 05:59 PM

That's right George. It doesn't matter one whit whether Trayvon became proactive in the encounter (as a whole).

GUILTY!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 05:40 PM

There are people working behind the scenes to keep George Zimmerman out of jail. He's got some good buddies in his neighborhood I've noticed. Send him up here. We'll try and convict him. In my town, we don't allow vigilantes. Our neighborhood watch people call the police and report suspicious behavior only. Our police actually have a good relationship with the community and will actually respond to multiple complaints from residents trying to clean up their neighborhoods.

Of course, I'm lying about all this. My friend Nick wrote a song called "The Cops in My Town", and it went something like this:

The cops in my town will squeeze your nuts
And they won't put up with up with no ifs or ands and especially no buts
Especially no buts

They get their sleep on the top floor of the parking garage
....................................................................
And their cars you cannot dodge
Their cars you cannot dodge

That's all I remember. Wish I had written it down.

Anyway, the parking garage bit was a reference to one of our senior officers who brought a lounge chair and an alarm clock to the parking garage to get a bit of shut-eye before calling in. Of course, one time he slept through and everybody found out.

And in case you are wondering what happened to the pair of young officers who decided to get even with the local newspaper for anti-cop press by getting drunk as skunks and whipping golf balls at the newspaper office. One made detective and the other just became our new police chief.

Folks, you can't make this stuff up.

Here's to you George Wannabe. I hope you must pay for taking that boy's life. You had no business freaking him out in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 03:43 PM

Do you have more evidence that I have missed?

BullshitBruce does not, and never has, let actual evidence get in the way of his Niagara of horseshit, KB.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 03:36 PM

Yet he does accept it, because the victim was black and the defendent is white/hispanic.

More bullshit from Bullshit Bruce, who chooses to conveniently ignore 300 years of southern history and precedents.

For an obnoxious asshole that keeps going on about "lynching" one might expect some actual knowledge of the history of lynching- suggest that he read Philip Dray's At The Hands Of Persons Unknown for a start, or any of DuBois' works on the subject, or the sources cited in Dray's bibliography.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 03:32 PM

This entire thread is about the ILLEGAL withholding BY the Prosecution of evidence, contrary to US law.

I have still only ever seen the comments of one former prosecutor indicating that this actually happened.

Do you have more evidence that I have missed?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 03:19 PM

Don F

If the defendant was black and the victim white, would Bobert be willing to accept the Prosecution violating the law and withholding evidence? I would not.



Yet he does accept it, because the victim was black and the defendent is white/hispanic.

That IS racism, regardless of what you might choose to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 03:14 PM

"Withholding of evidence" are the key words here, Beardedbruce!

THAT is not "justice" for anyone!!

It has one helluva lot to do with racism, but Bobert and I are NOT the racists here!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 02:39 PM

Don,

This entire thread is about the ILLEGAL withholding BY the Prosecution of evidence, contrary to US law. Bobert thinks that is just fine as long as they string Zimmerman up. Do you agree with him, or with the goal of a fair trail, under the law, that will not be thrown out for procedural errors, regardless of the final verdict?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 02:26 PM

""I apply this to any race.""

You may certainly be honest enough to do so.

I'd really like to be able to say that I could believe that the Sanford authorities and the Florida judiciary were half as honest.

They, absent the public outcry, were not even going to arrest the killer, let alone try him.

Can you, hand on on heart, say that you believe that would have been their reaction had the races been reversed as per your earlier comment?

If you answer yes to that, I would like a couple of ounces of what you are smoking.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 01:43 PM

I ++have++ stated that if the races were reversed I would still be saying the same things.

The defendant in any trial is entitled to a legal trail , or the verdict can be thrown out.

I apply this to any race.

Some here have stated that they only apply it when certain races are the victims or defendants, and not if a different race is. If that is not racism, perhaps someone can politely state why not.

I have seen no criticism of Greggie boy's comments, so I continue to presume that they represent the "Liberal" majority here. If I judge you too harshly, too bad. You bring it on yourselves by your own defense of his personnel attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 01:23 PM

Don,
"
Beardedbruce, what you are accusing others of tends to indicate the direction of your own prejudices.
"


So, you are stating that Bobert has indicated the direction of his thoughts, too, or is it only those your disagree with that you apply this standard to?


I have stated that the laws should be followed, and Bobert has stated that he will only be satisfied with a guilty verdict, regardless of what is brought out at the trial.Who is it that is in favor of lynching?????????????????



What a bunch of racist bigots.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 01:18 PM

Yeah, seems that the "lynching" has already occurred... It was of the 9 mm variety and now that the lyncher has been caught seems that all the pro-gun,k right-winged racists want nothing but exoneration for their poster boy lyncher...

Who is not getting justice out of this Southern kangaroo court is Trevon Martin... Nor does he get an appeal...

Welcome to the South, ya'll... Come back, ya' hear???

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 01:03 PM

Beardedbruce, what you are accusing others of tends to indicate the direction of your own prejudices.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 12:18 PM

Hey! Ol' Lynchin' Bigot Bruce is back! With the same lynchin', bigot horseshit!

Tiresome.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 12:13 PM

""This jury could believe Zimmerman was wrong, even be convinced that he stalked Martin and still find that the prosecution had not survived its legal burden beyond a reasonable doubt. These legal distinctions are important and as part of the live coverage on many cable and local news networks they are discussing these issues thereby allowing people to better understand the process.""

These legal distinctions are important in the framework of allowing the gung ho killer to evade the consequences of his crime when the killee is a black child armed with candy, dangerous only to his teeth.

If Zimmerman walks this opens the hunting season on black kids in Florida.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 12:07 PM

""If the race of the defendant and victim were reversed, I would be posting the same comments- Would you?

And who would that indicate was being bigoted based on race?""

If that reversal had been the case, then the black guy would have been tried, convicted and condemned by now, that is, if he hadn't been shot dead while "resisting arrest".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:53 AM

"If these six women jurors believe the fight would not have occurred but for Zimmerman "following" Martin -- which remains a matter of dispute -- and even if they are convinced that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, that alone is not enough to convict under Florida law.

When this case entered the public consciousness, Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law became a national focus. Under that controversial law, determining who was the aggressor is crucial to assessing whether a defendant can succeed in having a case dismissed. The defense here chose not to rely on that law, probably because they would have lost at a hearing.

Instead, they are arguing classic self defense and so Zimmerman's actions and mindset when he fired the shot are at issue. Was he reasonably in fear for his life or great bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger?

This jury could believe Zimmerman was wrong, even be convinced that he stalked Martin and still find that the prosecution had not survived its legal burden beyond a reasonable doubt. These legal distinctions are important and as part of the live coverage on many cable and local news networks they are discussing these issues thereby allowing people to better understand the process.

This is not to suggest in any way that the prosecution should be throwing in the towel. This week they will present evidence of inconsistencies in Zimmerman's own account of what happened and if they find his story implausible that could spell trouble for the defense. Furthermore, jurors can give some witnesses far more weight than others.

But no matter what happens, I know I'll be glad that the world watched and judged it, and the verdict, for themselves."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-prosecutions-woes/story?id=19541263&page=2#.UdGlixZ1CS0

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:48 AM

So the solution, your "Affirmative Action" plan, is to lynch enough non-blacks to make up for past injustices???




If the race of the defendant and victim were reversed, I would be posting the same comments- Would you?

And who would that indicate was being bigoted based on race?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:44 AM

Southern courts have a long tradition of fucking over black people...

The Southern Poverty Law Center has a team of lawyers that try to level the field but it's like going up against an intransigent army of Southern white racists, bigots and, frankly, rednecks who will fight against equal justice tooth and nail...

Anyone interested in a glimpse into just how intransigent these folks can be should read Morris Dees' book "A Lawyer's Journey"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:35 AM

"The prosecutors have already had some of their case disallowed by the judge???"

I note that you did not complain when the defense had some of it's case disallowed by the judge.....




"By most accounts, last week was not what the state in the George Zimmerman case would have hoped for. In one way or another, more than half of the prosecution witnesses supported Zimmerman's account of what happened the night Trayvon Martin was killed.
Prosecutors started strong with a powerful, concise opening statement from Assistant State Attorney John Guy, in contrast to the silly knock-knock joke and seemingly disorganized and meandering defense argument.
Photos of the final candy and drink that Martin, 17, purchased minutes before his death riveted the jury, followed by haunting images of his dead body, the end result of a quick visit to a 7-11.
But then something happened that many would have thought improbable as this case received wall to wall coverage leading up to Zimmerman's arrest.

What the state hoped would be proof that Zimmerman initiated the altercation and that he, not Martin, was on top as they grappled on the ground, did not appear to proceed as planned. A variety of eye and ear witnesses of varying credibility, did offer testimony to support the prosecution theory that Zimmerman was the aggressor before the shot was fired. They either heard what they thought was Zimmerman instigating the encounter or in one case heard a chase (which Zimmerman insists never happened).
But with each witness there were either facts that we now know are not true (like hearing three shots, when there was only one) or indications that their memories have somehow become clearer since the incident itself.
While those sorts of attacks on witnesses, in particular eyewitnesses, are standard fare for cross examination, the state's troubles seemed to extend further than minor inconsistencies.
Even the prosecution's effort to show that Zimmerman was an over-eager, wannabe cop backfired when a witness from the Sanford Police Department, testifying as part of the prosecution's case, admitted that she tried to recruit Zimmerman for a citizen's patrol and that "George was very professional, a little meek, really wanted to make community better."
Then came the state's star witness, Rachel Jeantel, who recounted those final moments on the phone with Martin.
"He told me the man kept following him," Jeantel testified. "I say, 'Trayvon,' and then he said, 'Why are you following me for?' And then I heard a hard-breathing man come say, 'What you doing around here?' ... And then I was calling, 'Trayvon, Trayvon.' And then I started to hear a little bit of Trayvon saying, 'Get off, get off.'"
If jurors believe her, that Martin said "get off," then there seems to be little question that Zimmerman at least initiated the incident.
The problem? She admitted to lying on certain matters, and most importantly she was confronted with an earlier account, where she had recalled Zimmerman uttering the far more innocuous response, "What are you talking about," rather the more menacing "What are you doing around here" The difference between bewilderment by Zimmerman as opposed to a veiled accusation is a significant one.
But the ambiguity surrounding her testimony was nothing compared to the clarity of neighbor and witness John Good. His vantage point and detailed account may be more definitive than that of any other witness to date, and rather than supporting the prosecution's case, he seemed to bolster Zimmerman's claim that Martin was beating him.
Good testified that the lighter skinned man was on the bottom. He also described to the jury the clothing that he saw.
"The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was ... red," Martin said. Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red jacket while Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt.
"The person on the bottom, I could hear a 'Help,'" Good said."

http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-prosecutions-woes-analysis-140121038--abc-news-topstories.html







"How do you spell Kangaroo Court???"

'B o b e r t'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 06:15 PM

FFS.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 06:00 PM

Don: "'Course don't listen to me. I'm only one of those "loony Liberals" who tend to value things like honesty and fairness. . . ."

You had me going there..but you lost me about halfway through your last sentence!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 05:38 PM

Goofball, when the judge and some of the attorneys are displaying a considerable measure of prejudice by disallowing certain testimony and evidence to be presented, it doesn't take an intelligent person long to figure out that the court is biased, and what that bias is.

Let me repeat:   It doesn't take an intelligent person long to figure out the bias of the court.

I personally think they should take that trial out of that jurisdiction and conduct it where there is far less historical prejudice and both George Zimmerman AND Trayvon Martin get a fair verdict.

'Course don't listen to me. I'm only one of those "loony Liberals" who tend to value things like honesty and fairness. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 01:34 PM

Bobert, I don't know if you have heard...but in America, or what used to be known as America, you are innocent, unless PROVEN guilty. All the prosecution has to do, is prove its case, and he's convicted. All the prejudice in the world, one way or the other, shouldn't win or lose the case.
Why do you bring up and condemn 'lynching', and the 'Greensboro massacre'...and then go on a tirade and play the part, as if you were some frothing idiot in a lynch mob???

Just calm down..let the trial run its course....if the results aren't to your liking, THEN you can join a frothing mob, and riot, like in your southern lynch mob mentality...and while you're rioting, you can keep telling yourself, that it's not about justice, it's about race!
Now, does that make you feel better??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 01:22 PM

Thanks, SJL.

Here is a link to my post.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 30 Jun 13 - 08:28 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 03:35 PM

Excellent post. Pretty much says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 12:47 PM

I can tell that you have never lived in the South nor paid much attention to what happens down here, GfinS...

Google up Greensboro massacre for a quick primer...

BTW, the lynching has already occurred here... 9mm style...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 10:26 AM

Bobert: "What evidence???"
"There's more politics in this case than Carter has liver pills..."

Quit being silly...they only disallowed the unintelligible phone call recording, and both sides had their 'expert' witness, to refute each other.
It sounds to me, that the real evidence that the DO have, is just not the stuff fits your politics.

You've already decided, without hearing all the evidence, or even before the trial's over, how you want it to go, so ANY evidence that doesn't go 'your way', is considered, "What evidence???"

Watch a good football game, if you want to root for a team, one way or the other. Trials are different...they just want to get to the facts...no biases, one way or the other.

I haven't been on this thread, merely because I figured, it would be a battle of wits, for witless bigots....trying to ensure that their personal discriminations, one way or the other, would rule the day!
....nor have I 'promoted' one side or the other. All I've said was, "Let the verdict come in according to the EVIDENCE, not political posturing."
Something wrong with that..................too?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 10:07 AM

What evidence???

The prosecutors have already had some of their case disallowed by the judge???

This trial is bogus as a $3 bill...

We have been told over and over by the media that the prosecution will have an uphill battle... Who writes that and gives it to the reporters to read???

There's more politics in this case than Carter has liver pills...

Welcome to the South...

Home of Jim Crow, the KKK, the Minutemen and over 1000 organized hate groups and where judges have to be partisan to get their jobs...

How do you spell Kangaroo Court???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 12:15 AM

Let the verdict come in according to the EVIDENCE, not political posturing.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 03:52 PM

Seems to me the major flaw in the claim that Zimmerman acted in self defense is that he forced the contact with Martin by stalking him and while he may have been comforted in knowing that the had a hand on his pistol he could have kept his distance. He had contacted police and done his duty as neighborhood watch. I think most of us would have developed some concern if we were walking along a residential street and become aware that someone was following us. If there were an armband, cap, or insignia on a car to indicate neighbor watch, we might take note. I doubt that I would confront the stalker, but there is possibly here some who would. Even if Martin confronted Zimmerman and even if he made the first physical contact, Zimmerman is still, at least, partially at fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 02:59 PM

Oh, dear - another bout of bloody postarrhoea. Condition may be approaching critical.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 01:25 PM

"Political Strategist Charles D. Ellison also warns that, "There is the risk of a flashpoint as intense as the aftermath of that fateful Los Angeles police brutality verdict in 1992," if Zimmerman walks free.
"At that time, many underestimated the potential for social unrest. And a bit over 20 years to the date, many could be making the same miscalculation at this very moment. The ingredients are there in Sanford and they loom large nationally, from an economy barely managing its own recovery to an unemployment rate that's much higher than it should be, particularly for African-Americans," adds Ellison.
Some are even asking whether the law should be ignored and Zimmerman convicted simply to avoid race riots.
"Regardless of whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defense, a large segment of the population, particularly the black population, are demanding Zimmerman be punished. And if they don't have their demands satisfied, it is possible they might riot," writes a poster at the Aesops Retreat forum. "So would it be appropriate to consider potential riots when deciding on whether or not to prosecute Zimmerman? Or should justice be blind and follow the rule of law?"
Critics of the attempt to convict Zimmerman have cited numerous points of evidence which clearly suggest Zimmerman acted in self-defense and that the case against him was built largely on the back of contrived racial politics."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 01:07 PM

"CBS) A former neighbor of George Zimmerman testified he saw two men in a "tussle" outside his home the night of Feb. 26, 2012, and said he now believes the person on top in the altercation - which would moments later turn fatal - was Trayvon Martin.

In key testimony, he also said he believes George Zimmerman was the person yelling for help.

PICTURES: George Zimmerman on trial in death of Fla. teen

VIDEO: Zimmerman trial: Prosecutor opens with profanity

John Good took the stand Friday in the fifth day of testimony in the Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial. The former neighborhood watch captain is charged with shooting the unarmed teen as he was walking back to his father's fiancee's home through a Sanford, Fla. gated community.

John Good testified he saw a man in dark clothing on top of a man who was wearing red or light-colored clothing with lighter skin. Zimmerman, 29, was wearing a red jacket the night of the altercation, and Martin was wearing a dark hoodie. However, Good testified that he didn't see the person on top smashing the other person's head into the sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims Martin did before he fatally shot the teen.

READ: Trayvon Martin Shooting: A timeline of events

Taking the stand Thursday, John Good said he was at home watching television with his wife when he heard a "faint noise" that seemed to be getting closer. Outside, he said he saw the person on top of another man.

The man on the bottom, who he said he now believes is George Zimmerman, yelled for help.

"At first it was "What's going on," and no one answered,' " Good said, describing calling out for the men. "And then at that point the person on the bottom, I could finally see, I heard a 'help.' Then at some point I said 'Cut it out.' And then, 'I'm calling 911.' That's when I thought it was getting really serious."

The altercation seemed to escalate, according to Good. The struggle moved to the cement pathway, and he said the person in dark clothing straddled the other man in "mixed martial arts position" he later described to police as a "ground and pound." He said he saw "arm movements going downward," though he couldn't be certain the person on top was striking the person on the bottom.

"The person you now know to be Trayvon Martin was on top, correct?" asked defense attorney Mark O'Mara. "He was the one raining blows down on George Zimmerman, correct?"

"That's what it looked like," Good answered.

Good said he then went back inside to call 911. As he was dialing the phone, he heard a gunshot. His 911 call was played in court as the jury listened."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591520-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-neighbor-testifies-trayvon-martin-was-straddling-z

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:45 PM

"Good took the stand today and said he first thought he was looking at a dog attack until he noticed two men. He says he yelled "stop" as he watched the fight.
"I said cut it out. I'm calling 911 because it was getting serious," said Good.
Good says he watched as what looked like punches being thrown.
"Could you describe who was on top and who was at bottom," asked prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.
"The color on top was dark and the color at bottom was…red," responded Good referring to the men's clothing.
At another point he told the court that the person on the bottom had "lighter skin color."
Zimmerman is a white Hispanic who was wearing a red and black jacket that night. Martin, who was black, was wearing a dark sweatshirt.
He also said, "The person on the bottom, I could hear a 'Help.'"
Under cross examination by Zimmerman's lawyer, Good said he believes he saw Martin on top punching Zimmerman "MMA style," a reference to mixed martial arts.
"The person on top was ground and pounding the person on the bottom?"asked Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara
"Correct," said Good
But he said he did not see Martin banging Zimmerman's head on the concrete, which is what Zimmerman has claimed.
His testimony is in sharp contrast to Selma Mora, another witness to the fatal encounter between Zimmerman and Martin who testified late Thursday that Zimmerman was on top of Martin in the moments before a gunshot ended the fight.
"How were the two people positioned that you saw?" asked prosecutor John Guy.
Mora told the court Thursday that at some point she saw a man in "patterns between black and red" on top, indicating Zimmerman.
"One of them was on the ground, and the other one was on top in position like a rider," Mora, who speaks Spanish, testified through a translator."


http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-witnesses-conflicting-versions-fatal-fight-145530258--abc-news-topstories.html



A responder at the scene said Martin's knuckles were bloodied, suggesting he had injured Zimmerman with a punch;
- The lead investigator on the scene, Officer Christopher Serino, wrote that Zimmerman could be heard "yelling for help as he was being battered by Trayvon Martin."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 12:31 PM

Not only would Texas buy him a new gun, they'd elect him to the US Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:14 AM

Bobster,
its Florida   he will walk free just watch. If it were Texas they would buy him a new gun

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 09:56 AM

Well, seems like Zimmerman's attorneys are trying to make the murder victim the bad guy here...

I'm sniffing O.J. Part 2 here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jun 13 - 12:26 PM

You are very right EB, also there would be what is called tattooing on the victim (power burns on the skin from a firearm discharge closer than three to five feet. Likewise the shooters upper torso would be covered in gun shot residue, the spent cartridge would also indicate the distance. I see nothing to describe this stuff. Only questions that don't quite add up to me

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 09:53 PM

Thanks, Eb...

Well thought out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 09:45 PM

I've kind of kept arms length away from this shooting, trying not to get overly dogmatic about it. But I have a few questions that I have not heard addressed.

#1 According to yesterday's testimony, Martin was shot in "the chest area" and was still (barely) alive when the first responder tried to revive him. He testified that he rolled Martin's body over and gave him mouth to mouth.
#2 If Zimmerman is correct in saying that Martin was pounding his head on the concrete, then Martin was on top, i.e. you can't pound someone's head when it is at a distance. (Incidentally, were the two men curbside? Pictures show two small 'lumps' on Zimmerman's head that would seem to indicate an edge to the concrete.)
#3 Since Martin was shot in the chest, should not Zimmerman have been covered with blood? According to the first responder's testimony, Martin's heart was still beating, and therefore pumping blood. Zimmerman "was wearing red clothing"- does that explain why the blood was not the most visible thing present? The early accounts that I read never mentioned blood on Zimmerman, nor did I see any pictures of it.
#4 Zimmerman was taken down to the precinct station to make a statement and then let go. Presumably this was before he went home and changed clothes. Will there be testimony by the police department describing Zimmerman's clothing?
#4 After Martin was shot and Zimmerman was lying beneath him, presumably Martin's body was limp. What is the most common scenario in sliding out from under a limp body? Would one thrust it to the side and slide out? Or would one 'buck' it off?
#5 Did Zimmerman examine Martin's body after the shooting? In that case, it would be logical to say that he turned it face up. Yet, the first responder found it face down.

All that said, I can imagine that one's thinking processes would be so chaotic, so fragmented, that any logical sequence of events would be impossible.
As I said, I am come late to this subject- after all it is now in the trial phase - but please bear with me. I'm sure there is information out there that I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 07:27 PM

Thank you, ol'ster...

The one lesson that I came away with from martial arts is this: When is right to fight... Answer: never...

You understand the responsibility that goes with gun ownership... Unfortunately, you are in a small minority of gun owners... I've been hunting with people who say they understand gun safety but take unsafe shots...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 06:10 PM

Ambiguity there. Streets are lined with houses. Walking along a street therefore involves walking between houses.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 05:33 PM

There is another lesson in this. In fact there are several.

I can start the list with "Do not let people carry guns. Guns kill people".

I can add "Walking while black is a capital crime".   We all know of DWB but this takes it one stage further.

Who wants to carry the list on?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 03:51 PM

There is one lesson in all of this. If you can carry a firearm legally. Avoid at all costs getting yourself into bad situations. Use the firearm only in the most deadly situations that you are put in and never go looking for trouble. Hell there is enough trouble out there in the world without looking for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 03:44 PM

"Testifying in the Geoge Zimmerman trial, prosecution witness Rachel Jeantel, 19, who says she was on the phone with Trayvon Martin before he was shot, explained that Martin told her that a "creepy ass cracker" was following him. According to Jeantel, Martin was worried that Zimmerman was a rapist, and said to "stop playing with him like that." He also told Jeantel, she said, that the "n----- is now following him."
Jeantel is mumbling her testimony, leading to delays in the courtroom. She has already allegedly perjured herself months ago by stating that she missed Martin's funeral because she was in the hospital."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 13 - 03:06 PM

McGrath,

"She said that it was suspicious that a person – Trayvon Martin – was walking in the rain between houses without a particular purpose."


Along a street- not suspicious.

Between houses- suspicious.



Normally one does not go off the public right of way without a reason. Especially in a gated community