Worst singing accent.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,bardan
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 09:38 AM

I think that the idea that your singing voice should sound exactly like your speaking voice doesn't always make sense because they're two different processes. Singing isn't normal- it's a performance. Singing tends just work better with purer vowel sounds, underemphasised sybillants etc if we're talking about intelligibility.

Another side of that is that in a 'by ear' context you'll probably be influenced to an extent by whoever you got the song from at least until you've been singing it a long time.   

Thirdly people don't necessarily have one accent or one strength of accent. My mum sounds almost english or at least fairly neutral to most ears cos it's been decades since she left Kerry and she's spent lots of time in non english-speaking environments. Stick her on the phone with her sisters though and you'll notice a (totally unforced) change.

I'd say the key is not to overdo/force it. If it feels fairly natural, it probably sounds fairly natural. If you start singing "last noite as oi lay drrrameing on pleasant days boi" you'll probably sound like a prat.

just my opinion mind.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Accents
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 08:15 AM

According to a scientific report out today all good singers, sing in an American accent, not deliberately just that if you form your words properly and phrases it will sound like that. Worst for me is the Tom Jones type fake Macho/Black accent. A dear lady in our Folk Club, sings in a very thick Birmingham accent despite not being that Brummy whewn she talks!

Desi C

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Patsy Warren
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:58 AM

I can't remember the artist's name but I think it was about the summer of 75 and the song was sung in the worst fake Jamaican accent, 'Whoah I'm going to Barbados'

To this day I cringe if I hear this stupid piece of pop pap.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 06:40 PM

Don, I think there's a big difference between trying to sing "Carrickfergus" with an affected Irish accent and singing a song like "Twa Heids Are Better Than Yin" with at least some semblance of a Scots accent.   The latter is written in dialect, including some Scots words, and to me it sounds weird if sung with a midwestern US accent except for those few words (not to mention that it screws up some of the rhymes).

Same goes for some American songs, such as the part of Loretta Lynn's "Coal Miner's Daughter," where she deliberately rhymes "hard" with "tard" ("tired).

And 'ow do you do "'Enery The Eighth" without putting on something like a Cockney accent?

Just saying I think some songs, like some roles in plays, are meant to be done with an accent. If you can't do that accent perfectly, I don't think it means you shouldn't ever perform that song or role.   
And depending on who your audience is, they may or may not know the difference.

That said, I probably wouldn't go to another country and try to entertain the people there by doing their own songs.   And I'd steer clear of performing an "accent" for people for whom it was second nature.

Dick Van Dyke's accent in Mary Poppins doesn't stand out like a sore thumb to me like it does to some others because I don't hear a real Cockney accent all that often. But I wonder how many Brits can tell a New Yawk accent from a Joisey one? Or S. Carolina from Georgia from Alabama?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,bert
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM

I can't believe that I haven't posted on this thread before.

I agree with Genie. ...I enjoy hearing singers sing songs in various languages and dialects other than their own...

If you don't try to affect an accent then you won't be able to sing songs like "Manura Manyah".

Dylan (accent wise) was bad though, but not nearly as bad as those who try to imitate him.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:18 AM

Dear Debra has a wry sense of humor.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:03 AM

"I have always thought it a bit silly to try and sing in an accent not my own."

I sang a couple of my own songs at the break during a Debra Cowan gig in our local. One of the songs is written basically in Scots dialect whilst the second just is standard English. She congratulated me when I got back to the table but asked me why I had sung the second song in an American accent. I was pretty dumfounded as I didn't think I had. Still don't but obviously she heard something. :-)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 02:28 AM

I have played in an Irish Folk band in NYState for about 23 years. I have never ever not once tried or intended to throw the brogue. I have always thought it a bit silly to try and sing in an accent not my own.

One day at a festival this past year a fellow I know to have come from Kerry came up to me and said, Good on you Don, you're finally startin' to get the voice."

Don

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM

Interesting phenomenon in this thread. On the one hand, many are decrying singers trying to adopt an accent that they don't come by naturally (e.g., a Yank trying to use an Irish accent when singing a song from Ireland).   On the other, many are saying it's "the worst" when someone from an Asian country tries to sing a song in English and can't pronounce the "r's" or "l's" properly.
So is the consensus that you should never sing a song in another language unless & until you can sound like a native speaker? Should middle-class professionals not try to sing blues -- or maybe sing blues with all the final "g's" clearly articulated (and maybe singing "I haven't got anybody" instead of "I ain' got nobody?")

Personally, I enjoy hearing singers sing songs in various languages and dialects other than their own, if the accent fits the song. Some songs really wouldn't sound right to me without being sung in a particular dialect. (Many English Music Hall songs come to mind.) Yet I would not want to discourage all but the "natives" to perform them.

I do agree, though, that some fake accents are strange concoctions of the imagination (e.g., the "Foghorn Leghorn" US "southern" accent) rather than honest attempts to mimic or echo an authentic accent one has heard.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: romanyman
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 02:27 PM

those folkies that think all folk or shanties must be sung through the nose, make me want to give them a packet of tunes and a tissue

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: oldhippie
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:19 AM

The worst I've heard: A guy named Wolf Krakowski. Someone once loaned me his CD Transmigrations, and he was totally unintelligible.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 02:47 AM

One area of "worst accents" which seems to have escaped criticism is " the white men sings the blues" syndrome. One of the most venerated performers of pre-war country blues is John Hammond Jr. but to me his adopted deep-south rural black accent is embarrasing.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 11:29 PM

LTS – well done! I'm extremely impressed!

Severn's comment about foreign bluegrass bands brought back memories...

Quite a few years ago now, my folk club (Paint Creek Folklore Society, in case anyone's wondering) was involved in a cultural exchange with a Danish group in the Thisted (pronounced Tis-ted; near the city of Thy – pronounced Tu (sort of)) region of Denmark. One evening (when it was our turn to visit them), we had a sort of talent show, and one of the high points of the evening was the local Bluegrass (a.k.a. "Thygrass" (pronounced Tugrass)) group. They were great – had the music absoloutely down – but one of my favorite memories to this day is their refrain on one particular song: "And dhey laid Yessi Yaimes in his graive"....

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:02 PM

Posh voices.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mandoleer
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:33 PM

I just thank the gods that Dick van Dyke wasn't a folk singer. Was he supposed to be a comedian or something... No, my vote in the folk world goes to someone not yet mentioned. The revered by many Dick Gaughan is a singer I would prefer to pay not to listen to. I could be wrong, but he only appears to use three vowel sounds - none of which I can describe here - which don't seem to me to be normal Scots sounds anyway. (Of English birth, I have Scottish family and am related to 'the sweetest of Scottish bards' Robert Nicoll.) Ewan McColl did have a peculiar accent, but at least he had a reasonable selection of vowels. I make no claims of superiority on my own part - as mentioned in another thread I have been used to clear pubs at closing time....

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:43 PM

The Galway Drawl was indeed penned by myself..... well, spawned really!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Severn
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 01:50 PM

Foreign Bluegrass bands like Druha Trava (Czech) or The Nakashima Family Band (Japan) can sound pretty bizzarre, but on the other hand, I can think of quite a few American bands, I won't name names, that don't get too much closer. Pick your (probably) local favorite.
Not that I could sound like a young Red Allen ot something if I tried.....


Severn

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 12:37 PM

LTS, forgot to ask before... who wrote Galway Drawl? Was it you, by any chance?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Dug
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

This song from John Dengate (tune "Marching through Georgia"

I am a little Aussie boy, I come from Cammeray
I've never travelled further than the beach at Byron Bay
But when I pick my guitar up I'm off and far away
To Tennessee via California

Guitar guitar I touch the finger board
Guitar guitar I play an opening chord
Then my accent changes from Australian strong and broad
And my tongue goes bungling through Georgia

3 more verses...

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: John C.
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:41 PM

Not often we agree, weelittledrummer (unless you're being ironic, of course?). Ewan was the only hero I've ever had (don't usually bother) - he changed my life.
Do you realise that he would have been 90 this year? Doesn't time fly?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:09 PM

Reba McEntire

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:06 PM

ewan was okay. leave him alone. wrote some nice songs. was generally nice to people. wrote a lot of plays. nice people like Ian Campbell worshipped him.

what have you got to do to be liked. some of ewan's followers were tartars for telling eberybody what the tradition was really about. but the man himself. I thought he was better than all right

he contributed to the gaiety of nations

RIP - thats what I think

Big Al Whittle

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:47 PM

newfoundland, but only when they put the country western lilt on it.
grraaahrgh.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:08 PM

But INSTRUMENTALLY they are great !!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM

The worst singing accent I have EVER heard is on a CD that is played at the hotel I work in regularly - No Names , No Pack-drill , but the lead singer seems to have an accent thats midway between Black Country and Cockney .

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 01:26 PM

MANY thanks for the rest of the words, LTS – they're a stitch! (Can't wait for the next singaround...)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Dave Earl
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM

Why is it though, that my pals from north of the border get very upset when refered to as scotch?

If I have understood what has been said, it's because they are Scottish or Scots(men)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:52 AM

Yes wrinkles, you are correct. Why is it though, that my pals from north of the border get very upset when refered to as scotch?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Wrinkles
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:22 AM

Liz said " Although I must correct you - scotch is a drink, he pretended to be Scots".

Wrinkles writes;
"Scotch" is an adjective, it's merely the english ponounciation of the Lallans "Scots" (which sounds like "skohshsh" to english ears; hence "scotch"). Two different dialects words for the same things. Although I'd say useing either at the end of a sentence is just bad grammar; in each case the correct word in an english sentence should have been "Scotish".

And Whiskey is a drink, the designation "Scotch" is to warn folks it's not the real thing; IE Irish Whiskey ;-).

Wrinkles
(running and ducking for cover; hee hee)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 05:08 AM

In his case it's scotch - I wouldn't insult my kilt wearing mates north of the border!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 04:54 AM

Mindblaster - I wholeheartedly agree!! Never like the man! Although I must correct you - scotch is a drink, he pretended to be Scots.

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 04:49 AM

All this debate about Jimmy Miller being a genius! The man was a total fake who made a living by pretending to be scotch, stealing songs from gypsies and old seamen rearranging then and calling them his own - A total wanker!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:50 AM

At the local folk club, in fairest London,
One pleasant evening in the month of May,
There stood a singer, of Cockney breeding
And his singing fairly took my breath away:

Ch: He had no talent, or sense of rhythm
No ear for music, no none at all….
But he sang for ages, went on for pages,
And he sang them slowly, in a Galway drawl.

He sang of Ireland, as if he'd been there,
He sang of troubles and war and pain.
He stopped eventually, we clapped politely,
So he stood and sang them all again:

He sang of rebels and Irish rovers,
The lakes, Coolphin and Ponchitrain
He sang each note, like an Irish setter
And the tears stood in our eyes with pain.

He kept on singing, we started walking,
Till the Temple Station came into view,
Says he to us, 'mates, all back to my place,
Where I've got another book of songs or two:

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,wandris
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:02 AM

I well remember Tommy Steele singing Little White Bull when I was a child, I was not allowed to sing it at home because the poor prnounciation ! My parents were obviously concerned about my vowels.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:22 AM

Refresh...

Have you found it yet, Liz?

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 07:27 AM

This thread reminds me of the 'armchair' sports fan who constantly critises the action on the screen BUT has never played the sport themselves, and would be rubbish if they tried to!

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,slickerbill
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 12:15 AM

I've got to say to my ear the worst are:
a) French people singing rock and roll translated from the english.

b) Japanese people singing country music.

c) me singing any French or Japanese tunes.

sb

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 09:17 PM

Have you found it yet, Liz?

YY (also interested)

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:56 PM

It'll take me a while to find it again... remind me!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Snuffy
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:46 AM

Sorry, Liz. That was me. Forgot I'd had to come in the back door

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:41 AM

Let's have the lot then, Liz.

Pretty please.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 05:01 AM

Why, thank you HughM. There was more but I think that bit covered it!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Teresa
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:14 AM

This happens in Irish songs a lot. The word "char-ums" which rhymes with the word "ar-ums" Is this just in singing or is it also in speaking? It always makes me giggle. :)

Teresa

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,padgett (at home)
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:02 AM

yep the Geordie accent has escaped so far, Vin I believe is from Guisborough nr Middlesborough which was in Nth Yorkshire (hope his op goes well) but like the North East accent can near unintelligible

My mate Sid Calderbank was last year untertaking research into the different accents and dialects and if you listen to one or two of Sid's songs in the broad Lancashire dialct youd wonder which country you were in.

e stood taliking in Whitby; John Denny from Brum, Me from Barnsley, and Sid from I think Leigh (correct me if I'm wrong) any one from anywhere else would have been hard pressed to understand what we were saying god bless English in its many forms. I know I struggled to get attuned. Just needed Benny Graham or Johny Handle and they were both there.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 08:20 PM

I once had a voice teacher who showed me a statement in one of her books that stated quite emphatically, "Philadelphians have the worst vowels in the world." I'm quite proud of that fact, even though I purposely dropped most of my Philadelphia accent when I was 16 and still living in Philadelphia, or, as we would say, Full-ulfya.

And as far as unintelligible singers go, I don't think Dylan can hold a candle to Vin Garbutt. Even Van Morrison on "Madam George" doesn't even come close.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 07:22 PM

Dick van Dyke in 'Mary Poppins' has the sort of accent that Americans think we have in the UK. The same accent can be heard in any American sitcom when an English character is introduced, whether they're supposed to come from London or not.
My least favourite accent is the awful 'Mummerset' accent adopted by many singers in folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 06:49 PM

Liz - that was brilliant!

Maybe it's because I don't come from Barnsley, but Kate Rusby often sounds to me as though she continually alternates between standard English and Northern English (strictly speaking North Midland). However, I won't throw too many stones bedcause I live in a glass house. If I'm singing a Scottish song or a Geordie one, I often have to make some attempt at the appropriate accent or the words wouldn't rhyme.

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 05:07 AM

At the local folk club, in fairest London
One pleasant evening in the month of May,
There stood a singer, of Cockney breeding
And his singing fairly took my breath away...

For he had no talent, or sense of rhythmn,
No ear for music, no none at all,
But he sang for ages, went on for pages,
And he sang them slowly, in a Galway Drawl.

He sang of Ireland, as if he'd been there,
He sang of troubles, of war and pain.
He stopped eventually, we clapped politely,
So he stood and sang them all again:

Any similarity to persons living or dead is purely intentional. You know who you are!

LTS

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:59 AM

Sorry - I keep doing that.

I dislike the spurious introduction of a sibilant "H" in front of vowels. For example "H-abroad for pleasure h-as h-I was h-a'walking, h-it was h-on one summers h-evening clear". and such bad diction that you can't distinguish one word from the next also winds me up and turns me off (should that be hoff?).

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:52 AM