BS: BNP: What would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:56 PM

The worm is impersonating someone else now.

I don't think anyone could do a better job discrediting the BNP with words than this person is doing by their public actions.

Fundamentally, I think this is a troll, and may not care a bit about the BNP but for it's effectiveness as a trigger. Get sucked in if you like, fight with the troll or with each other, but this is a weak person looking for you to entertain him.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:50 PM

"There ya go Riginslinger you ahve soething in common with people you hate...which, for me is a very soboring thought."


             Wrong you are, Rifleman. I don't hate anybody. I simply think North America and Europe need to update their immigration policies before they find themselves completely swamped in wall-to-wall humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:34 PM

Keith's story is realistic i think Richard.

BNP lies tend to be along the lines of "The BNP aren't racist because..."

ie - BNP supporters don't usually deny being BNP supporters, they generally lie about the BNP to persuade people to take another look.

Keith has made a point of dissociating himself from them.

This is not consistent with BNP behaviour.

Unless anything else were to be uncovered I would be satisfied that Keiths assurances are sincere, as much by their tone as their content.

Wringing out further hypotheses from the available evidence won't get us any further however and Keiths response doesn't look like changing no matter how many different ways the evidence is represented.

Richard, it is clear that these circumstances have made you feel very uncomfortable and with good reason.

A bit of trust and mutual understanding wouldn't go amiss here.

It is not pleasant to have ones identity misused and it is also not pleasant to be cross examined over something that one hasn't done.

Why would someone steal Keiths words?

Why would someone steal Richards name?


It is perfectly possible that you are both victims of the same person.


The uncertainty of course makes it difficult to lay to rest, but the variety of possible hypotheses does mean that for now at least, the barest minimum fairness requires that Keith be granted the benefit of the doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 12:06 PM

http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/gensynod/agendas/feb09/gsmisc903a.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 11:34 AM

"They probably figured they were there to plunder the country side, pillage the villages, loot the towns, and rape the women, just like the immigrants now. "

There ya go Riginslinger you ahve soething in common with people you hate...which, for me is a very soboring thought.

Non-white immigrant, that's me :-)

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 06:11 AM

This is in danger of degenerating into a witch-hunt. Keith is no more a BNP supporter than I am - some opportunist low-life has seized on his post and exploited it, as such people do. And someone, somewhere, must be having a good chuckle at the paranoia now making itself evident here.
FFS, leave Keith alone and concentrate on the real problems.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 05:26 AM

Because it is a nasty thing to be accused of fool.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 03:35 AM

I doubt that they have a target list of people to watch Richard.
They are just being opportunistic.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 02:22 AM

Richard, an old post of mine.
There are others.
I have always and only opposed them.

From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford on tour - PM
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 05:01 AM

Josh, we all here share an interest in our music and are a forum of friends. If you are not into our music, why have you started this discussion?
if you are here to recruit for BNP then you are really not welcome.

Non UK folks, BNP is an extremist movement, but immigration is a main stream political issue

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 02:17 AM

Richard, within minutes of my first post an anonymous guest posted an attack on it from a BNP perpective.
It said I was lucky to be in cosy Hertford and have other people to fight my battles for me.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 07:00 PM

Well, Kevin, it would be vanity for me to suggest that they thought me dangerous to promote me to "Redwatch", and why would they watch Keith at all? He is fairly right-wing on most topics.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:15 PM

How so, Richard? We know that there are a few genuine Nazis (a term I prefer to use rather than the laundered initials BNP) hovering round the Mudcat these days.

As the inscrutable sage Cantona reminded us "When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 04:54 PM

I simply followed a train of logic Keith. You say that you wrote and people copied. That could happen two ways - "pull" ie people found and copied all on their own, or "push" ie you wrote and then you or someone close to you alerted people to what you had written.

What you wrote here was on Facebook and Digg within about half an hour of your writing it.

How likely is it that bnp scum are watching either you or me that closely - that they know what we posted within about half an hour?

That seems to me to make the "push" theory more probable.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 04:51 PM

That woman's views are revealing Jedy.
This report polled the views of 1000 BNP voters.
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/who+voted+bnp+and+why/3200557

Here is a sample.
Not surprisingly, BNP voters regard immigration as the top issue facing Britain. Fully 87 per cent of them told us it was one of their top three or four concerns. (This compares with a still-high 49 per cent among the public as a whole.)

But when people are shown the same list and asked which three or four issues "are the most important facing you and your family", the figure falls to 58 per cent. True, this is three times the national average of 20 per cent, yet it means that for almost half of BNP voters, immigration is NOT among the worries of day-to-day life.

We also find that most BNP voters do NOT subscribe to what might be described as "normal racist views". Just 44 per cent agreed with the party in rejecting the view that non-white citizens are just as British as white citizens.

Yet the feeling is widespread that white Britons get a raw deal. Seventy seven per cent of BNP voters think white people suffer unfair discrimination these days. But that is also the views of 40 per cent of the public as a whole.

The average British voter is more likely to think that discrimination afflicts white people than Muslim or non-white people. And only seven per cent of the public think white people benefit from unfair advantages, while more than one in three think Muslim and non-white people receive unfair help.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 03:47 PM

i had a listen and it is clear that the woman doesn't have a clue.
when she claims that her ancestors come from london, i wonder how far back she went.
when george asked why she was superior to him she had no anwers.

this is a classic example of the fear that the BNP can spread, people are frightened but don't know why.

people are scared of being overun but don't know who by.
these people are scared of something that they have been told to be scared of, and alot of them listen without question. WHY? for too long we have been told by government that THEY know what is best for us and we have meekly accepted it. when we try to challenge the government now, they think we haven't got a clue and ignore us.

it is that sort of mentality that will let the BNP get more power.

it is our duty to inform people there is more to it than that and to inform them of their choices and that they have a right to choose, and what those choices could lead to.

i hope tht woman begins to wonder why she could not answer GEORGES questions, and starts to delve deeper into the reasons behind the thinking.

take care all
jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 02:32 PM

Love or loath George Galloway (I personally am generally pretty indifferent) this cross examination of a racist woman very effectiveley boils the whole issue down to its fundamental point.

"Life was sweet when we ruled the world"

The English Master race is missing its empire.

here

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 02:09 PM

BNP Press officer explains how black peoples genetic inferiority is to blame for their being more disposed than whites to violence crime etc ...

       HERE

Would any BNP supporters, perhaps MBSGeorge, like to explain or justify the points made here?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 11:31 AM

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8644741474

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:39 AM

There is no country in the world that allows uncontrolled, unrestricted immigration.
No British party advocates that either.
That does not make them all racist.
The problem is that our respectable parties will not talk about acceptable levels or how they could be enforced.

That is how BNP, with its very unBritish values and ideas, are able to gain support in areas of high immigration.
It is too easy for those of us outside those areas to pass judgement on them.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:32 AM

Richard, you say that the posts are all about the same time.
I wrote the words and posted them only here.
There is an implied criticim and doubt in your post.
I really am not responsible for what others did with it, however soon after my original post, am I?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 08:31 AM

I just looked at the DIGG sight and I have never seen so much bile and hatred in one place before.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:06 AM

it is dangerous to bring 'concerns about this' and 'concerns about that'into a debate about the facist and racist nature of the BNP. I have concerns that one of my local pubs no longer sells real ale. If BNP voice the same concern that does not deminish their evil and devisiveness.

Anyone can make a public statement that they will "do SOMETHING about an issue". What we are waiting for here is honest and transparent answers about what what their SOMETHINGS are.

The first thing they can do is stop denying the criminal records that a number of their members including senior members have. Secondly stop denying their venomous activities for which their is more than ample documentary and film evidence. Thirdly stop denying their links with fascist and race-hate organisations around the world, or at least for a start provide an explanation why it is in the public interest to engage with such. Fourthly - stop lying on television - Bronz lied about his arrest and conviction this morning.

Fifth - keep your nasty slimy grubby hands away from the worker coop movement. We dont want to catch any nasty diseases from you.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:04 AM

Oooh, and tha twas me getting the 600, too!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 06:02 AM

Curious that the same words crop up again here: -

http://digg.com/world_news/BNP_Nick_Griffin_Proven_Right_on_Home_Grown_Jihadists



All at very much the same time as your post above and the same words on facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:36 AM

Richard, I typed the post as a stream of consciousness.
I did not have notes or any other material.
I have posted in the same vein before and I wwill try to find it.
My post has been copied by someone else.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:31 AM

Keith

Why is your post here the same as that of "Hoff Bridge" - an identityjack of my name by someone else - on the Facebook Folk against Fascism site?

Three possibilities: you copied him, he copied you, or you both copied directly or indirectly from the same other source.

Did you copy your post from a different source, and if so where?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:17 AM

That quoted post is undeniably mine but this is the only site that I have posted it on.
It can only be a copy.
Nasty devious things are going on here.
BNP are nasty devious people.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:16 AM

How about replacing 'second and third generation immigrants' with 'second and third generation residents'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 05:12 AM

My post was my post.
This is the only site apart from BBC that I visit.
Second generation immigrants is an accepted and neutral term.
It describes a section of the population of British people whose parents or grandparents were born elsewhere.
They tend to share the same problems as affect white working class people (we do have to label groups to discuss sociological issues)and are themselves often adversely affected by high levels of immigration.

I think that immigration is a legitimate area of concern. I welcome having my points disputed but please do not try to smear my name.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:28 PM

i have always thought that when the economy is stable it was usaully due to migrant workers who do the jobs that no one else wants. we wouldn't have a railway system if it weren't for THE BLOODY FORIGNERS.

nor would we have alot of things i would have thought, if anyone can tell me i would be grateful.

it is not the (for example) polish workers fault that the bosses pay them less, it is not their fualt that the housing market dried up and it is not their fault that rest of the economy went belly up either, they have been made scapegoats for the bankers and bosses who think that they don't have to keep up standards and fair pay.

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 06:51 PM

I too am intrigued by the similarities between this post:

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM


And the one quoted by Richard Bridge.


Keith?

Any explanations?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 06:40 PM

To talk about the 'burning issue of immigration' being ignored presupposes that the British public are as preoccupied with the issue as you are.

For you it is a big issue.

For the BNP it is definitely a big issue.

It isn't for me.

Or for the majority of voters.


As for blaming weaknesses in the overall economy on immigration in the first place, its like blaming cancer on water.

Although it just so happens that evn this gives an inaccurate picture as a comparison of unemlyment figures and iimigration figures shows clearly that the unemployment has been at its lowest and least unstable when immigration has been at its highest.


This however is merely an amusing observation. and does not demonstrate any significant relationship.

We know this because there is no evidence that immigration and the economy and employment levels are connected in any definable way.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 05:42 PM

"Wonder what the locals said when the Anglo-Saxons arrived on their doorstep?"

                They probably figured they were there to plunder the country side, pillage the villages, loot the towns, and rape the women, just like the immigrants now.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 04:45 PM

Eh?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:31 PM

They said, "Buenos dias. ¿Cómo estás?"

Like, what it is, hombre? Nice horns you have there.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:30 PM

Joe, please note Keith A's post above.

Below is a quote from the purloined "HOff Bridge" identity on the FAF facebook site: -

"Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership care for us, they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

The BNP care about the British people."



I think that maybe Keith has some explaining to do, hasn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:27 PM

Wonder what the locals said when the Anglo-Saxons arrived on their doorstep? I'll be it wasn't "Can I see your passport please"

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: jeddy
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:25 PM

i wonder just how many of us are however many generation immigrants?


from romans, saxons, danes, i am sure there are more but my brain does not work that well. in that case hailing from east anglia as i do, i probably am not completely english either, maybe i should be sent back to where ever i originated, good luck finding that out, i would be split into quite a few pieces.

jade x

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:15 PM

All of Keith A of Hertford's posts reek of BNP propaganda carefully couched in acceptable terms (read polite);or is it just me?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:13 PM

"Keith, what are "second and third generation immigrants"?"

That'll be me then. Irish on my Mothers side.

I'm guessing in fact, that very many of us are 'second and third generation immigrants'?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 03:08 PM

Keith, what are "second and third generation immigrants"?

Are they people who have lived here all their lives and whose parents lived here all of their lives too?

Just wha makes them "immigrants"?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 02:15 PM

"The BNP vote will disappear as soon as a decent party addresses this issue."

Personally I'm not prepared to wait that long, things have to be done and done now. For those who are prepared to sit and wait...have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:34 PM

we are not talking about controlled immigration.
I was not speaking for just white workers.
Second and third generation immigrants are also in the line for housing, jobs, medical care and schooling.
I know that there are other contributing factors.
Denying that current immigration levels are hurting some groups in the population is exactly the attitude that drives them into the clutches of BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:34 PM

Fairplay: 'As a historian with a special interest in the Spanish Civil War' you will realise that the Fascist forces banded together to eject a democratically elected Government. Cruel and bloody, yes, but to suggest that it was the democratically elected Government that started it is just wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:28 PM

Mike, if a friend of yours is engaged in activities that are injurious to society, you are
risking being victimized by these activities. For your own protection you must dissolve
the relationship immediately but it's ok for you to tell your ex-friend why you must do it.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:22 PM

How many immagrants were responsible for the shortage of social housing brought about by the sale of council homes and government legistation to ban the building of new social housing stock? Was Thatcher black or asian? Did I miss something there?

What state would the health services be in now if it were NOT for migrant nurses and doctors?

How would infrastructure services quote if migrant workers were not doing the jobs that white people see beneath them to do?

Moving away from the high density, hard to let high rise estates, where migrants are housed by local authorities, what is the proportion of black/asian schoolchildren - for example in Richmond? Beaconsfield?

Blaming all 'social ills' on immigration IS racist and devisive.

Try looking at the impact of greed and distribution of wealth...

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 11:27 AM

Most BNP voters are working class city dwellers.
Far from being fascists, their background is the labour movement.
Their problem is that the current, unprecedented influx of immigrants is hurting them.
Basic services have not been provided for this flood of people.
The existing population find fewer job opportunities, and wages driven down.
They have lost a sense of belonging in the places they grew up in.
Their is no social housing availble for them and rents are driven up.
Medical services are overwhelmed and the schools grossly overcrowded with English a minority language.
They are not fascist thugs.
The BNP leadership are fascist thugs, but they are the only ones who will listen.
The major parties just call their legitimate concerns "racism."

When the issue of the BNP successes was debated on Question Time, immigration was the elephant in the room.
The only panallist who tried to raise the issue was an economist.
The three politicians and the trade unionist just changed the subject and carried on talking about electoral reform, vile fascists etc.

The BNP vote will disappear as soon as a decent party addresses this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 04:32 PM

None has been denied free speech on this thread as long as they have met the forum's posting policies.   But free speech cuts both ways, and exercise my free speech to identify behaviour by BNP members that is socially unacceptable, and question whether when BNP members are exercising their right to free speech if they are telling the truth and whole truth.

People posting on behalf of the BNP have had countless opportunities to respond to the questions put to them and provide the evidence to back up thier assertions - but they choose not to, and because of this a very large number of us question their hidden motives.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 04:29 PM

"Those who would deny free speech to a substantial electoral constituency (with even more widespread sympathy for its policies if not yet for the organisation itself) are going down a very dangerous path and one completely alien to Britain's democratic tradition."


1. there is no evidence that the BNP do not have freedom of speech.

For example - on this site - there are NO restrictions.

BNP supporters on this site simply have nothing of any value to say.


2. There has been no "widespread" increase in "sympathy".

There was a reduction in the overall number of people voting so the BNP's share increased proportionately.

At the next election, partly as a result of many good people on this site, there will be a bigger turnout of voters overall.

When that happens, the BNP will be kicked into touch and will have to return to frothing at the mouth about their hatred of foreigners in their party "bookshops" again.

In the meantime, the BNP can expect to be ignored by their MEP peers. They don't have enough seats to make a difference.

And we the wider electorate will make sure that you lose those seats.

Back to your sewer filth!

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 Jun 09 - 03:54 PM

Fairplay, you may be confusing "not being given the right of free speech" with people simply not wanting to listen - have you considered that?