BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: fumblefingers
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 06:24 PM

CarolC "However, that one can be flipped. It's interesting to see, considering how may times FOX News has been caught lying and propagandizing, how many people still support that organization."

Would you please supply credible* documentation to support that charge.

* That doesn't include The Daily Kos, Huffington or other leftist blogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 10:07 AM

Great, defund DynCorp too. Why should we fund any of these bogus organizations with taxpayer dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 11:45 PM

More good stuff here, on the unconstitutionality of the Defund ACORN act. In order to make it legal, they're going to have to apply it to any group that has violated any of the things they say ACORN has violated. Interesting to see the kinds of groups who might be de-funded if they decide to make the act constitutional. Lots of defense contractors in that one.

DynCorp employees, for instance, were found to be actually participating in a child sex slave ring in Bosnia.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:29 PM

And peace from ACORN, the smallest minds in the country!

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: sing4peace
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:46 PM

Nice to meet you too Carol.

We Rhode Islanders have a statue of "the Independent Man" on top of our Statehouse. (the original plan was for a female figure - as we say here in RI "go figure".) Our state motto is Hope.

We all benefit when we stop to listen and think for ourselves. Question everything I say.

From where I sit, there is a classic "divide and conquer" ploy being used against the people of our country at this time. It's been done in our name elsewhere for so very long. Now it is on our turf.

Like it or not, believe it or not, we really ARE in the same boat. As the seas continue to rise and the winds begin to howl, we'd better start figuring out how to row together
or we're all going down.

Peace to you from the smallest town in the smallest county in the smallest state,

Joyce

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:17 PM

It's not always fun being the lone voice in the wilderness, but it's always very gratifying when people start waking up...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/33013202#33013202

Manipulating the Public Agenda: Why ACORN Was in the News and What the News Got Wrong

http://departments.oxy.edu/uepi/acornstudy/

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:30 PM

(BTW, nice to bump into a fellow Rhode Islander... I'm originally from Warwick [Buttonwoods Bay], myself.)

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:29 PM

It would be nice if everyone would wait until we have gotten to the truth of things before calling for ACORN to be gotten rid of. But that's just not happening. Probably because those very people don't really want the truth to be revealed. It might prove them wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: sing4peace
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:14 PM

Some of us here in Rhode Island thought it pretty ironic that after Sean Hannity was bashing ACORN for allegations of criminal activity while receiving government funds - FOX news had the ex-mayor of Providence - Mr. Vincent "Buddy" Cianci as a "Great American" guest.

Mr. Cianci was convicted and sent to prison for his part in a corruption/extortion racket while he was receiving government funds as the sitting mayor of Providence. He was convicted on a prior occasion for having arranged for his chauffeur (a State Police officer) to kidnap and detain his (Cianci's) ex-wife's lover - tie him up, burn him with a cigarette, beat him with a fireplace log and urinate all over him.

Nice "Great American", eh?

BTW Buddy was re-elected by the people of Providence after the kidnapping charge resulted in a suspended sentence. Some people still consider him a "hero" and credit him with Providence's "Renaissance" and for making the "trains run on time" - not me.

With the ACORN situation as in any other, we have to see through "them" and "us" and get to the truth of things. A crook is a crook is a crook is a crook and oughta get called out... no matter which team they are on.

In my humble opinion,
Joyce

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM

That article fails to mention the fact that it was ACORN itself that flagged those registrations as being fraudulent so that the authorities could act on them. There never was any danger of any of those registrations resulting in a fraudulently cast vote.

This is the nature of the lies and deceptions that the Republicans are engaging in on the subject of ACORN.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:16 PM

The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud

Posted By Jim Hoft On October 14, 2008 @ 12:05 am

And you thought 2000 was bad.

This year's election is shaping up to be one of the most controversial in history. Just this week, a federal judge ordered Ohio's top elections official to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The very next day a 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals set aside the federal judge's order on verifying registrations.

Further igniting the voter fraud/voter registration debate was the news that a national community organizing group is being investigated in at least 14 states and several swing states for massive irregularities. This news would make headlines anyway, but what made it worse was that Barack Obama was a key player in this organization, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, in the past. Obama trained its local leaders, represented the organization in court, and worked to funnel funds to the organization. The Obama campaign also donated $800,000 this year to an ACORN affiliate.

What is ACORN?

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) is a community-based organization that advocates for low and moderate income families founded in 1970 by Wade Rathke and Gary Delgado. Rathke, one of the most powerful hard-Left activists in America, is a former member of a radical 1960s group, the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). The Weathermen terrorist group split off from the SDS in 1969. ACORN says its priorities include better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, and better public schools.

ACORN is also known for its voter registration efforts.

This year alone ACORN has registered 1,315,037 voters.

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert "Red" Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for "Operation Big Vote" — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 "potentially fraudulent" voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the "disenfranchised" minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren't just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana's Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff's office.

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico– The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in [34] by ACORN.

That's not all. So far this year at least 14 states have started investigations against ACORN. Talk about a culture of corruption. It is so bad that Representatives of Congress have asked for the Justice Department to investigate, and GOP presidential candidate John McCain is bringing it up in his stump speeches. The Obama camp is stealthily altering its "Fight the Smears" website to distance themselves from the organization — quite a challenge considering how close their candidate's association has been with the group.

The liberal vs. conservative, voter fraud vs. voter intimidation debate will no doubt continue after this election.  But this year, with the assistance of scandal-plagued ACORN, it appears that — so far — the voter fraud side is winning.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 11:30 AM

That's odd. I thought the above poster said I should go see what the New York Daily News had to say about it instead of trusting Slate. Still, that person hasn't provided any documentation whatever, so we can still assume that everything they are saying is a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:43 AM

The claim that only 1-2% of he NY multiple-registrees voted in both states is absurd. The processs of registering requires a concious effort and would not be done 98% of the time as some sort of "accident".

The New York Dailey Times is part of the extremely slanted pro-Democrat Knight-Ridder group which includes the pitiful San Jose "merky" News. They seem to be making an effort to expose the problem and trivialize it at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:37 AM

So, out of a thousand people, the only one who was honest was a Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 01:47 AM

The New York Daily News said that the number of people who voted twice was between 400 and 1,000, and the only person they actually gave the party affiliation of was a Republican who voted twice in at least seven elections, including the last four presidential races.

LOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 01:24 AM

If the above poster can't even provide any documentation for their own assertions, I think it's entirely safe for us to say that there is no documentation for their assertions, and we can safely say that there is no truth to them whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 12:55 AM

Perhaps somebody should look for a copy of the original article in the New York Daily News and ignore the CYA misinerpretation from Slate.

The 46,000 figure is confirmed multiple registrees from New York City only. These aren't stupid people. They are some of the wealthiest and most liberal people in the USA. They want their side to win and don't care about the rules.

All the Attorneys General of the notheasten states are Democrats and all refuse to cooperate with Florida in cleaning up voter fraud. Congress should jump in but Democrats got their 60 votes in the Senate by bending the rules so they just ain't interested in changing the status quo.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 11:46 PM

And I'd still like to see some documentation for the claim that at least half of the ACORN generated registrations in Nevada last year were fraudulent. Like the number of snow birds from New York who were supposed to have voted twice, I expect that one to be a lie, also.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 11:25 PM

And its lies like that one that the Republicans are using in their efforts to disenfranchise people.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 11:24 PM

But the 46,000 didn't vote twice. As I pointed out already, only between 400 and 1,000 voted twice, and we don't know how they voted. They could just as easily have voted Republican. We just don't know.

Saying that tens of thousands voted twice is a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 11:20 PM

"...in a sweep of voter registration records by the New York Daily News, which found that he and 46,000 other New Yorkers were registered to vote in both Florida and New York."

Thanks for the help. Again, New York Attorney General (2000) Eliot Spitzer blocked the New York voting records from being given the Katherine Harris. She was able to purge multiple-registrees within the state of Florida. Also purged felons, but was not able to do a verry effective job with multi-state registrees or illegal aliens.

BTW, the "46,000" you mention is a lot like the "tens of thousands" I mentioned.

Chicago, Boston and all of New Jersey supply many snowbirds, although New York is probably the "big one".

George W. Bush still got 1604 more votes than Lieberman/Gore on November 7 and won despite a "handicap" of tens of thousands of illegal votes.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:59 PM

Let me google that for you


From the Slate article...

"This August, Moschella's name came up in a sweep of voter registration records by the New York Daily News, which found that he and 46,000 other New Yorkers were registered to vote in both Florida and New York. Moschella also had the bad luck to answer the phone when the News reporter, Russ Buettner, called. So, his name appeared in the paper's Aug. 21 story revealing that in the 2000 election between 400 and 1,000 of these double-registrants voted in both states."

It doesn't, however, say which party these people were registered as, if any, or who they voted for.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:42 PM

Actually, for both of those.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:42 PM

I'd like to see some documentation for that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:37 PM

The Nevada Secretary of State, a Democrat in an elected office, says that at least half of the ACORN registrations submitted last year were fradulant.

There was election fraud in 2000 Florida allright. Tens of thousands of "snowbirds" who live in New York, Chicago and New Jersey voted in person in Florida absentee in their home states. It is illegal, but the states where they live refused to give Florida their registration records for comparison. Eliot Spitzer was the New Yorker who personally told Florida to pound salt. Snowbirds are almost all wealthy, Jewish and Democrat. They went over 90% for Lieberman (with Gore attached).

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:14 PM

I don't think they need to worry about the next election- If they are incumbent, replace them! Regardless of party.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:12 PM

I agree that what Gore was trying to do was wrong, and it was also stupid. However, the pattern of disenfranchisement that the Republicans have been engaging in makes anything done by the Democrats pale in comparison. And the Republicans are still at it, as we can see with this smear campaign they're waging against ACORN in anticipation of the 2010 election.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:09 PM

That's not 12 years. That was only a few days.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:06 PM

"This is because they don't give a crap about election fraud or voter fraud, what they care about is disenfranchising voters who won't vote the way they want people to vote."

Sounds like what the Dems have been doing the last 12 years...

I recall Gore saying not to bother counting the ballots from Northern Florida, since he did not expect to win there.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:01 PM

There were Republican organizations that were guilty of election and voter fraud, but the people who are trying to shut ACORN down don't have anything at all to say about them. This is because they don't give a crap about election fraud or voter fraud, what they care about is disenfranchising voters who won't vote the way they want people to vote.

ACORN did not go out during the election and try to register people they shouldn't have. They sent people out to register legitimate voters. Some of their employees tried to register people they shouldn't have, and ACORN turned those employees in. So what any investigation will probably show is that ACORN is not and was not engaging in any illegal activity. People can keep lying about ACORN's record on this matter all they want, but that won't change the outcome of the court case.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:42 PM

But Rig,

Even the dead have a right to vote- as long as they vote the correct way.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:39 PM

They will find something. Look at the people they had manning those offices.
             I agree with you, Carol, that the young journalists would not be getting this much support from the right-wing press if ACORN hadn't gone out during the election and tried to register people to vote who didn't exist, or were dead, or lived in some other state. But they did do that. The right-wing is dedicated to make sure that doesn't happen again.
             I think the see the destruction of ACORN as a pre-requisite to their very survival.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:37 PM

"...right-wing attorneys are lining up to take the case..."

Both of them?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:31 PM

However, even if they don't find anything out of line (definitely a possibility), that won't shut up the critics. That's because this isn't at all about anything ACORN's doing that they shouldn't be doing. It's entirely about the rich and powerful not wanting people at the bottom to be empowered and to be able to participate in the democratic process.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:22 PM

It doesn't look like this is going away any time soon. Due to the reality that ACORN has decided to go forward with their suit against the young lady, right-wing attorneys are lining up to take the case and intend to subpoena all of ACORN's financial and personnel records under the right of discovery.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:20 PM

I'm pretty sure I remember that some of the conversations Tripp recorded between her and Lewinsky happened in a bar. At any rate, the court will decide whether or not ACORN has any legal basis for their suit. All we can do is speculate.


Lots of people listen to Hoyer.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 02:39 PM

"Steny Hoyer's saying, let's get more facts before taking any action."

                But nobody listens to Hoyer!

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,JML
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 02:36 PM

The Bodoy case that everyone quotes deals with one employee recording conversations with another in the workplace.

Not applicable here.

The Monica Lewinsky case was over the telephone.

Again, not applicable here.

The key thing here is "intercept", which O'Keefe and Giles did not do. Intercept is different that participate. Intercept means a third party not participating in the conversation.

Also, if I remember right from looking at the video, the door to the room was open, thus negating any expectation of privacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 01:16 PM

Steny Hoyer's saying, let's get more facts before taking any action.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 10:29 AM

Barney Frank is washing his hands of them. I think they're toast!

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: heric
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:53 PM

Maybe Wade Rathke covered up his brother's million dollar fraud all by himself for eight years. I don't think anyone's proven otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: KenM
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:51 PM

Back between 1989 - 94, I lived in Little Rock AR, and on Saturdays, I hosted a folk music show on KABF, the ACORN radio station. Bruce (Peace), like it or not, some of your material from "Singer/Song Writer Project," "33 1/3 RPM", and the CBC International Recording was played on that show. The radio station was upstairs, the other functions of ACORN were downstairs. I spent many hours interacting with many fine people whose only interest was equality, equity, social justice, and a color-blind society in the U.S.

They're still there...they're still fightin' and I'm still with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:35 PM

I believe it was one employee (the embezzler's brother) who concealed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: heric
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:32 PM

No, the individual embezzled; The concealment was systemic, defrauding donors.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:24 PM

(Of course we know that in the case of the military it was systemic, but that does seem to be the bar that has to be overcome in order to make the charge that an entire organization is culpable.)

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:22 PM

That wasn't systemic. That was an individual who has also been fired.

What is it we keep hearing about torturers in the US military? It's not systemic, only few bad apples?

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: heric
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM

(You mean other than intentional concealment of embezzlement.)

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:06 PM

And, Carol just nailed it in one.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:04 PM

There are no cases of election fraud against ACORN. There are some cases of election fraud against some people who used to work for ACORN (and who ACORN turned in to authorities), but none against ACORN itself.

We do not have any independent verification of any dishonesty on the part of ACORN.

Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 10:59 PM

No, we can independently verify (as I have done above) that ACORN cannot be trusted, without any help at all from FOX, so that one won't wash.


How many cases of election fraud are currently going on against ACORN?

It seems that YOU need to learn which rules apply to ALL, and stop stating that those you support get special treatment.