BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 05:21 AM

this one goes on to explain how ISIS will ultimately not succeed.

It provides an opinion of why it will not succeed in Saudi only.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 05:16 AM

IS arose out of the Syrian civil war which can not be blamed on the West.
It has mainly concerned itself with the centuries old Sunni-Shia split, which again can not be blamed on the West.

It is by far the most serious threat there is to peace in that region and beyond.
That is why people want to talk about it Dave, and why we should be allowed to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 04:13 AM

This is becoming that classic that African cessenists once described as: Discussions about discussions. What is needed is "Deus ex Machina" aka moderators. Which is why we roll our eyes at times like these. Looking for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 04:03 AM

The situation in the Middle East is very complex, and there are no easy answers.

That was the point of the links, Joe, and why I said "both containing elements that need to be considered." There certainly are no easy answers and why people chose to flog them to death on here is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 04:02 AM

What the world needs is a global moderator. (Oh did I just swear?).

Like the UN. That will sort the problem, won't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 03:52 AM

People can post links to weighty-sounding "solutions" that they can't define themselves, but I can't say I see much hope for the solutions linked to above - which I can't define, either.

The situation in the Middle East is very complex, and there are no easy answers. No doubt, much of the problem had its origin in European and American imperialism of the 19th Century, and European and American warfare in the 20th. But those things are done, and now we have to solve the problems they solved.

Can't say I know the answer, and I can't make a link to a credible solution, either. Probably Ann Coulter knows how to solve it.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 03:44 AM

Keith,

We are blighted with people who post inappropriate stuff.
They should not cause threads do be expunged.
There are other ways to deal with them.

Joe has already said that discussion of moderator actions is a no go. Why continue to do it? Just let it go.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 03:32 AM

Unfortunately, this is a combination of the "Peace Dividend" we all hailed and the wonderfully open forum that is the internet, that we all hail.

Unforseen consequences? No, unconsidered outcomes IMNSHO.

but like my discussion on driverless cars we could have discussed "what ifs" and some of us would have seen this coming. And some would have poo-pooed. Such is life.

Personally I find holidaying in my own country preferable on many counts, it is safer (relatively) but easier to understand when things are abnormal. And there are Folk Festivals I have not been to yet. We hop on a bus the day before, often, and see towns and countryside barely (or never) seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 03:32 AM

They are not so much gaining influence but gaining notoriety because they are getting the reaction they want. Like this thread. As long as people panic and continue believing that we are going to hell in a handcart then they will continue doing it. As to why they cannot be stopped, they can. But not by continuing down the path that has failed for so long. This article goes a long way to explaining why while this one goes on to explain how ISIS will ultimately not succeed. Seemingly contradictory but both containing elements that need to be considered.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 03:22 AM

Thanks Joe.
There was also a thread with a title something like "Hate crime or terrorism"

We are blighted with people who post inappropriate stuff.
They should not cause threads do be expunged.
There are other ways to deal with them.

Some dead are still not identified, and more British are expected to be among them.

Tunisia was the one democracy to emerge from the Arab Spring, which actually started with them.
Unfortunately, they border Libya which now has a strong IS presence.
Also unfortunately, the economy is highly dependent on tourism which now faces a bleak future.

All the survivors praised the way the hotel staff and other locals tried to help them.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 03:19 AM

These horrible events seem to be more and more common, shootings, beheadings, executions. How are fanatics gaining so much influence in the world and why can't they be stopped ?
There are parts of the world where I would not feel safe today, a pity really but too much violence to risk going dangerous places.

Subject: RE: BS: Beach massacre in Tunisia
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 03:07 AM

If you would like to discuss a subject at Mudcat, suggest that you not include a discussion of moderator actions. The previous thread on the beach massacre included very little information about the massacre, and a lot of criticism of moderators. Our moderators do their best, but it's impossible for them to defend themselves in open discussion. If you want to discuss moderator actions, ask me or Max or a moderator privately.

---

A single gunman armed with a Kalishnikov rifle and grenades killed 38 people on a beach in Tunisia on Friday, 26 June. The gunman was killed by police after the shootings, and several co-conspirators were arrested. 30 of the victims were identified as British citizens, and 3 were Irish.

I spent three weeks visiting my sister in Egypt in May, 2012, just before Morsi was elected. There was political unrest at the time, but I never felt unsafe. And it was very nice to visit the monuments without having to deal with crowds. Prices were very cheap, too. It cost me $750 for the three weeks, including a cruise on the Nile.

But I wonder if I'd feel safe visiting any Islamic country now, three years later. I hope things come to a resolution soon, but there's really not much hope for that, I think.

-Joe-

Subject: BS: Beach massacre
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 02:18 AM

The first of our dead are being flown home today.
Most of those killed were British.
The killer is believed to have singled out British victims.

It is outrageous that we are prevented from discussing this, our worst loss of life since 7/7 bombings ten years ago.

I call on moderators to delete inappropriate posts but not to expunge the whole issue from the record.