Lakeman and Harding

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:51 AM

I have already signed the petition George, so no worry.

Folkie Dave - there is no malice meant by my post, and I am grateful for your sterling work. A big well done from me for one. My good friend Richard Bridge along with Hamish Birchall have also done much in this regard. I'm just trying to say that all this bickering about some committee (not Seth himself) putting a label on something leaves me a bit speechless. It's nit picking on the scale of a playground scrap and not worthy of most of the people that post here.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 04:59 AM

See what I mean about people reading threads?

ohn the reason why it is above the level of a playground scrap has been explained at least a dozen times. It isn't about a committee labelling something.

This is why I am now leading a campaign to get people to read threads first before posting.

Now John go read a few threads, particularly the one where a professional singer explains why the Folk Awards are important to professional singers and come back and call it a playground scrap.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:04 AM

Another 5p's worth from me (there seem to be several threads on this issue, and I've had my say elsewhere, but then so have most other people here).

Firstly, I agree with those who seek to defend Seth Lakeman from the scathing attacks by some people in this and other threads.

Those who don't like him or his music or singing style for whatever reason are using the "White Hare" issue as an excuse to attack him. These people are entitled to their views, but they are diverting attention from the issue that concerns the rest of us, namely the nomination of a non-traditional song for the "best traditional track" category in the BBC Folk Awards.

I happen to like Seth, and have seen him live several times, and I've thoroughly enjoyed him and his band's gigs. He isn't an overnight success by any means, and is talented and hard working (why do you think he appears at so many festivals, on TV and radio shows, etc.? Because to quote George above, he "puts in the hours". [One good quote deserves another, George :-)]). If some of the people who moan that he has passed them by, would try following his example instead of whingeing about their lot, maybe they would get somewhere themselves.

Yes, I wrote a parody song which pokes fun at him and his song, but Seth is not the target of the song. The target is Smooth Ops' John Leonard, who seems stubbornly incapable of seeing that, even by his own definition given on R4 last week, Seth's song "White Hare" is not a traditional song, and should not be included in the traditional song nominations.

This is the only important issue with the Folk Awards as far as I'm concerned. I happen to like a lot of the artists that are regularly played on R2. I realise there are many other deserving artists that ought to be up there with them, but that doesn't mean the favoured ones are rubbish (again, we all have our likes and dislikes). But that's another issue and I don't want to get into that here.

I would feel the same if (as suggested in another thread), say, Martin Carthy or John Kirkpatrick had one of their own songs entered for the 'traditional' category. It's just plain wrong, and as some say above, it's an important principle. If the BBC/SMooth Ops can get away with this, what next - James Blunt's latest effort being voted best traditional song?

I could go on but I think that's enough for now.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:07 AM

Sigh.

The criteria for Best Traditional Track, as published by Smoothops, is as follows:

The best performance of any traditional song or tune on CD released during the past 12 months. This is a category designed to recognise the work of people recording traditional material. It is to be a new recording of a traditional song, from any tradition.

If that leaves John Barden speechless, so be it. Actually, it renders me a little bit that way too, though for reasons unconnnected with whatever I may or may not think of Mr Lakeperson but because of doubts about the competence of the so-called panel of experts and even more so after the sheer pig-headed arrogance of John Leonard and the rest of his Smoothies. They (not Seth) have brought the Folk Awards into disrepute. As peeps would know if they could be arsed to keep up and read the thread.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:17 AM

I can assure you Folkiedave that I have read this thread and am quite aware of what the Folk Awards mean financially to professional singers. It's not that I'm refering to if you read my posts and I just don't understand how you know that I'm not reading the treads. Please enlighten me
John Barden

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:25 AM

Actually there are very very few people attacking Seth, and there are far more positive posts about him, even from those who are not fond of his music. For certain he has served a long apprenticeship and has become an overnight success over the last ten years or so.

Just about everyone and certainly the main protagonists on this and other boards agree it is not about Seth. As people patiently explain over and over again, it is about the process.

Now I am just getting a case of bottle-conditioned beers in and inviting some friends around to listen to "Feedback" at 1.30 pm. In the hopes they mention Scrump's song "Bonny White Hare". (Blatant plug)

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:26 AM

Ah - so it's all about definition then. Can anybody help me with the definition of beauty?

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:32 AM

I'm certainly not having a go about Seth. I like what he and his contemporaries do and have no qualms in saying that. I just don't understand the bickering about criteria etc.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:40 AM

Now I am just getting a case of bottle-conditioned beers in and inviting some friends around to listen to "Feedback" at 1.30 pm. In the hopes they mention Scrump's song "Bonny White Hare". (Blatant plug)

If they do, have a drink for me, Dave. And be sure to let me know. I'll probably have to listen to it later (or 'again' as the BBC would have it) :-)

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 05:54 AM

The problem with defining beauty as defined by Smooth Ops is it changes once you have got one.

I just don't understand the bickering about criteria etc.

That much is obvious from your posts.

Now if you seek enlightenment and the path to eternal happiness go read a few threads. Here on Mudcat, BBC Message Board, TalkaWhile etc.....There is plenty of information out there telling you what the bickering is about.

Of course if that is to much trouble, keep posting in ignorance.

From the CTGPTRTBMP
Campaign To Get People To Read Threads Before Making Postings

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:00 AM

Now, now Folkiedave. Ignorance is bliss, a little knowledge is harmful and too much knowledge is downright dangerous.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:24 AM

Dave, John, come on, kiss and make up.
No tongues though!

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Barden of England
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 06:27 AM

No problems with that George - my only problem is Jan insists no tongues either :-). No offence is ever meant Folkiedave.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:03 AM

The meaning of "traditional" is actually very important to musicians who spend their careers interpreting that kind of material. When we're talking about an award SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED to the performance of said traditional material, on the flagship national radio programme devoted to folk music, then to describe the dispute as "nit picking on the scale of a playground scrap" is frankly insulting.

ChorleyBob, said: "I also think this row is being used as a smoke screen, almost like a legal technicality, to attack succesful young singers with attitude". But surely most of the 'young singers with attitude' (and bags of musical talent come to that) who are setting our festivals on fire are doing precisely the kind of interpretation of traditional material that this award is supposed to celebrate. Or does that mean they're "up themselves" (your words, Bob) as well?

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:11 AM

I hope more musicians might come out publicly in this controversy, on whichever side they choose. A lot of people are worried about identifying themselves. So far I have spotted Brian peters, George Papavgeris and Tom Bliss, and myself, making their feelings known. I hope others will to(or perhaps already have, I have no real knowledge of where such dicsussions happen on the net). Judging by those named individuals I refer to, it would still seem John Leonard is in a minority of one on the whole question.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 07:50 AM

Yes, greg, JL is in a minority of one, and that is the point. I don't know if it matters whether the people who object to his stubborn refusal to back down on this point are musicians themselves or not.

The principle is easy for anybody to understand (except, seemingly, JL), even if they know nothing about folk music at all.

(I'm a musician but nowhere near well-known enough to make it worthwhile 'coming out' from your point of view :-))

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: BB
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:15 AM

There are times when I could hug you, Brian! I don't always say a lot (on this forum anyway), but you always seem to hit the nail on the head and echo my thoughts exactly. Thank you!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 08:27 AM

Mmm, yes please, Barbara!

Re. Greg's point, I find very encouraging that songwriters of the calibre of George and Tom are so vocal in defending the concept of "traditional song". It's not just the old finger-in-ear stereotypes, you know....

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM

The only issue picked up on Feedback was the question of whether less royalties could be earned from a trad. designation.
It was conceded that was not true, but argued that he would not earn as much in royalties if other artists recorded it subsequently.
End of discussion.
No mention at all of how the song could not reasonably be described as traditional at all.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 10:29 AM

Yes it is a shame.

They do things differently on Radio 3.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/worldmusic/a4wm2007/audience_award.shtml

Fancy letting the audience vote - what do they know!!

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 10:48 AM

The only issue picked up on Feedback was the question of whether less royalties could be earned from a trad. designation.
It was conceded that was not true, but argued that he would not earn as much in royalties if other artists recorded it subsequently.
End of discussion.
No mention at all of how the song could not reasonably be described as traditional at all.

That's very disappointing, to say the least. Does that mean that more people were concerned about the loss of future royalties to Seth Lakeman than whether his song is traditional or not?

How does that square with the fact that on the single, it is credited to him as the author, with no mention of "trad arr"?

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 11:41 AM

Unfortunately, Feedback only picked up on one of my points(the more boring one). they didn't mention my more significant beef: which was that listeners had been deceived into thinking it was relevant all that PRS stuff, whereas in fact it was irrlevant, because S Lakeman had in fact withdrawn the "trad" claim monthss ago. As John Leonard knows perfectly well. but managed to imply the opposite rather neatly, as a glance at the transcript shows.
   Strange, the game he is playing. issuing a slow drip drip of easily refutable staements, and then modifying them when challenged. He could easily have dealt with this whole thing when it came up way before Christmas. How come he is prolonging it like this?

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 11:54 AM

Because the Albino Bunny won the vote - which had to be in by the middle of December - and now they are totally embarrassed.

Good.

But we are in a dilemma - and JL knows this.

If we kick up too big a stink then all we do is harm the music we love. So we tend not to.

Many of the press we would have to deal with are not past the folk is done by "people who wear aran-sweaters, have fingers in their ear, tankards hanging off their belts and long beards".

And that is just the women.......

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:05 PM

I don't see how we can harm the music we love by kicking up a stink. We're in a world where no publicity is bad publicity. "Keeping it quiet" simply allows other voices to be heard. Nah, let the stink fly, I say

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:09 PM

Quite right George.

Let stinking commence! :-)

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Fiona
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:17 PM

There is one section of the award voted for by the audience, for 'Favourite Folk Track of All Time', it still looks to be open here.

Folk Award audience vote

Last year it was for Best Dance Act and Whapweasel won, the year before Best Live Act and SHow of Hands won.

fx

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:29 PM

The "White Hare" is heavily tipped for that one, Fiona.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Fiona
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 12:46 PM

lol greg.

Actually I think it'll be Show of Hands 'Roots' if one of the old Fairport ones doesn't get it. I voted for Dick Gaughan, he never wins anything at these awards, I said if he didn't get a lifetime achievement on this year I would stand outside and pelt them with deep fried mars bars, I'm testing batter recipes for extra sharp edges...

fx

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 07 - 02:03 PM

Ahem. This thread is about the specific nomination of the Lakeperson's ditty The White Hare for the Trad Track Award. Nothing to do with the audience vote for whatever it was. I dread to imagine what DG's reaction might be to a nomination for one of these discredited gongs. Though I'd like to see him throw it back at John Leonard.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Fiona
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 08:59 AM

To answer Folkiedaves original question, it's hard to say as the playlists aren't archived but I think he played the 'White Hare' before Christmas and again the other week, but I must say I thought playing it the other week was a bit of a piss take because of all the complaints. I'd say he's played 'The Colliers' from Freedom Fields way more.

He's played Salsa Celticas 'Grey Gallito' several times but not in the past few weeks, The van Eyken & Drever ones not so much, I remember him mentioning Kris Drever had won the Scots Trad Award and playing something but I don't think it was 'Green Grows The Laurel'.

On the show where he announced the nominations he played little bits of everything.

I wonder if the host at the beeb could be persuaded to release the playlists?

fx

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 01:41 PM

It would be nice Fiona - but the hosts at the BBC, are the same people who run the message boards - who run the Mike Harding Show, who run the Folk Awards.

I am not going to name any names, far too polite for that, let's just call them Smooth Operations for now.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Jan 07 - 03:08 PM

SoH Roots for Favourite Folk Track of All Time?! Christ, please say I just dreamed that.

I wish he'd have played Tim VE's Barleycorn as many times as it deserved - easily the stand-out track of the year, if not several years.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:01 AM

>>>SoH Roots for Favourite Folk Track of All Time?! Christ, please say I just dreamed that.<<<

That's a pretty unpleasant thing to say.

Couldn't pick a better song in my opinion. 'Roots' sums up so very much of what we've *allowed* to be thrown away in this country, through such appalling apathy.

"We've lost more than we'll ever know round the rocky shores of England......"

Lizzie

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:16 AM

I don't really think of SoH as a folk band, which is the reason it is rather anethema to me that a song like Roots should win favourite folk track of all time. Theytt are a rock-pop band with some folk influences. It is also a very recent song. But as their Teenage Fanclub on HRT will no doubt be voting like crazy, it probably will win, in the same way that people like Robbie Williams often top the polls for Most Influential Artist of All Time. Completely skewed and not at all representative, but telling about the sorts of people who indulge in repetitive voting.

"We've lost more than we'll ever know round the rocky shores of England......"

yeah - but happily the insurance will cover most of it, eh? Have you stocked up on the Age Renew makeup and face glitter, Lizzie?

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:23 AM

Roots is a dreary, whining rant offering no more solutions than Country Life did, but with more socially divisive overtones. Even some of those who normally see some merit in the SoH output (myself included) are saying that. Musically, it's a dirge. A demo went out before release to an online radio programme which was, apparently, at the wrong speed. Granted, this made it sound marginally worse than it actually is but the funniest thing was how it prompted lizziecornish to screech at everyone: 'surely you don't think it's supposed to sound like that?' It's still dire.

TVE doing Barleycorn though; I might even switch on MH to listen to that if he ever played it.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:30 AM

Look out for the next issue of English Dance and Song, Diane. The Singer, Song and Source article will feature Tim van Eyken, John Barleycorn and Fred Jordan.

Such a great interpretation of the song - even amongst some other great versions, like Martin Carthy's and Jim Causley's. Fantastic stuff.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Fiona
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:38 AM

Folkiedave have you tried e-mailing the Mike Harding Show and asking them? I do listen to it most weeks but he doesn't seem to favour Seth Lakeman especially and I don't go for the conspiracy theory either, but I do understand that some folk are upset by it.

We have a running joke about his Kate Rusby bias on the beeb messageboard but I don't think she's up for any awards at all this year. Funnily enough he played a new re-mix of 'Roots' with crowd singing and such the week before last.

~~~ getting out my spirtle~~~

He has played an awful lot of Bellowhead recently though....

fx

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 07:44 AM

I seriously have to wonder if Lizzle Cornish has ever heard any real folk music if she thinks wannabee pop band SOH and the latest boy wonder Seth Lakeman are representative of English folksong, they are both soft pop FFS

eric

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 08:03 AM

"Roots is a dreary, whining rant...but with more socially divisive overtones".

It is those potentially socially divisive overtones in some of the lyrics that have bothered me about "Roots" from the first time I heard it. Well, that and that it paints an overpessimistic image of modern British life. There are about 9 other tracks on "Witness" I prefer to it and there are even more in the rest of the Steve Knightley songbook.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:18 AM

"I don't really think of SoH as a folk band, which is the reason it is rather anathema to me that a song like Roots should win favourite folk track of all time. They are a rock-pop band with some folk influences"

Well I do think of SoH as a "folk" band, admittedly with rock edges. However if any song from the last couple of years were to win "Best Folk Song Of All Time" I would be inclined to think that people have been letting what they've just heard influence them too much. The phenomenon is often very marked when people draw up best of the year lists with a large dollop of November/December releases in.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:41 AM

That's part of the the point I was trying to make with the Robbie Williams analogy, Keith. You can't really get perspective on the influence or significance of a song, album or artist until it's been around for a wee while and has had time to find its context, as it were.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:51 AM

Record companies pay students a bit of pin-money to set up new email addresses from which to bombard radio programmes with fake requests, and "Listeners' Awards" schemes with fake votes.
It is sad, but not really a situation anyone could do much about. The trouble is, once one company starts up this sort of thing, other performers feel pressured to do the same, and soon everyone's at it. If anybody has a theory how to deal with this kind of thing, let's hear it!
   I know people will instantly call me a conspiracy theorist for daring to suggest such behaviour occurs. Well, i assure you it does.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:55 AM

"That's part of the the point I was trying to make with the Robbie Williams analogy, Keith. You can't really get perspective on the influence or significance of a song, album or artist until it's been around for a wee while and has had time to find its context, as it were".

Agreed!

Seth Lakeman is actually Robbie Williams minus the tattoos, both in looks and also in vocal range. Strangely Robbie has demonstrated an ability to write in a rather wider range styles, but that might just be his choice of collaborators. I do however think the evidence so far is that Seth has considerably more sense!

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 09:59 AM

And a lot less attitude. And is a sweet kid.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 10:06 AM

Seth is with Johnnie Walker this afternoon on BBC Radio Two between 4:30pm and 6:30pm. My guess is he'll get about 30 minutes like Show of Hands did 2 weeks ago.

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:36 PM

From er...Ruth Archer

>>>>I don't really think of SoH as a folk band, which is the reason it is rather anethema to me that a song like Roots should win favourite folk track of all time. Theytt are a rock-pop band with some folk influences. It is also a very recent song. But as their Teenage Fanclub on HRT will no doubt be voting like crazy, it probably will win, in the same way that people like Robbie Williams often top the polls for Most Influential Artist of All Time. Completely skewed and not at all representative, but telling about the sorts of people who indulge in repetitive voting.
"We've lost more than we'll ever know round the rocky shores of England......"

yeah - but happily the insurance will cover most of it, eh? Have you stocked up on the Age Renew makeup and face glitter, Lizzie? <<<<



Echoes of Loughborough fill my head here. ;0)

Now then Sweet Pea...

Thank you for your kind message. First of all I have my glitter on as I type this to you...and very sparkly it is too! I Love it!   
;0)

Secondly....Are you serious????? Age Renew make-up????


Heck Ruthie Baby, I'm a Show of Hands Chick, I don't need that...but I tell you what..I did get some money-off vouchers for "Gee You Sound Old And Crabby' cream in Boots the other day, so if you'd like to send me your address....I'll forward it on to you. I've heard it's particularly good for downward pointing wrinkles around the mouth area, often favoured by those Anti-Show of Hands Lasses out there...I always like to lend a helping hand to those of er...a somewhat Emotionally Wrinkled Disposition. ;0)

And now...to the more serious points of your post....

The Anti Show of Handers are still recovering from the fact of course, that on the first ever Public Vote in the Folk Awards, Show of Hands WON Best Live Act. Smooth Ops then had to change the Public Vote System to something more er...obscure where Show of Hands wouldn't be known about, such as Best Singer With Finger In Ear....Best Person Able To Talk About Cecil Sharp's Underwear Whilst Standing On One Leg...Best Person Able To Bore People Rigid With 52 Verses Of A Child Ballad etc....and on top of that..well....all hell broke loose on the messageboards didn't it!   Chuckle!

Whoopeeee Smiley!! :0)

"It was fixed!" they cried..."Transport them!" "There can surely be only ONE or TWO pathetic Show of Hands fans out there and therefore they must have voted a million times over!" was heard around the gardens of Cecil Sharp House.......

And still The Show of Hands Spin is going on now...but this time 'they've' started it BEFORE Show of Hands have even won ANYTHING!

Oh...Isn't this lovely! I LOVE IT! Great Big Grin Smiley!! :0)

Now then...repeat after me Ruthie Baby..

"The reason Show of Hands win Public Votes is because they have a huge amount of er...PUBLIC who vote for them and those thousands of people vote for them just one time each..and it truly is not just one fan who votes a thousand times over"

Show of Hands are way beyond needing to do anything like that....take it from one who's seen the way their audience has just grown and grown and continues to grow all the time...Heck I even had to travel from Sidmouth to Truro recently to see them, because I left it too late for both of their Exeter gigs, which sold out almost immediately! Still...I got my tickets for their third Royal Albert Hall gig early....I'm not silly! :0)

Yup! Isn't that AMAZING! The World's Most Wonderful Wandering Minstrels, who've worked their backsides off, for the last 15 years or more, gathering their fans around them, writing songs that bring in thousand upon thousand of people, getting people to openly share their music with their blessing.....who are funny, entertaining, highly professional, warm, welcoming and incredibly supportive and helpful to young folk acts...are actually LOVED and hugely supported by their public!

Show of Hands fans aren't Teenagers on HRT, although I'm seeing more and more young people at their gigs these days and Steve Knightley went down as sensationally as Seth did at Exeter Uni a few weeks back, where nearly the entire audience was young people..They LOVED Steve's songs...particularly Roots!

Neither are Show of Hands fans Apathetic Trainspotters. They may not know the order that Cecil collected his songs in...they may not even care...BUT they recognise two incredibly talented musicians when they see and hear them. They recognise also that their music should damn well be everywhere...AND they also recognise that Show of Hands, along with Seth Lakeman, whom Show of Hands supported for years...and still do...are doing HUGE amounts to bring people into FOLK music and they WILL support them.

I KNOW! Isn't that AMAZING?????

AND....Steve and Phil are bringing them in Dancing and Smiling...and sometimes Ranting too, because of the power of their songs! YUP!

Not only that, but so very many of their fans go on to discover vast amounts of other folk/acoustic musicians from there. Take a look over at the Show of Hands fansite, Longdogs, and you'll find many, many other musicians talked about and discussed on there...You'll also find many musicians in there too, who are Longdogs themselves.

I'm afraid that Steve and Phil are a bit of a Folk Phenomenon. Wanted by the major festivals in this country, because they know that where Show of Hands are...so too are the crowds...and those crowds absorb plenty more artists around them when they come to the festivals..and so Folk Music grows and gets spread around and made stronger...for our children and for theirs..

Of course, perhaps the only festival that may not choose Show of Hands could possibly be Loughborough, as a certain Miss Crumpet, who runs that, apparently would rather have 'pins stuck in her eyes' than go to one of their gigs....A shameful thing that she chose to write on the BBC board. Shameful WHOEVER it had been written about in my opinion. But..best to move on from that dreadful remark....

From Eric The Red:

>>>>I seriously have to wonder if Lizzle Cornish has ever heard any real folk music if she thinks wannabee pop band SOH and the latest boy wonder Seth Lakeman are representative of English folksong, they are both soft pop FFS<<<

Helloooo Dave! :0) No, you can't come round and borrow my Bob Fox, Jez Lowe, Barry Lister, George Papavgeris, John Tams, Duncan McFarlane, Nic Jones, Eliza Carthy or Demon Barbers CDs or any of the others either..no matter how much you beg me Dave! Chuckle!! ;0) Oh and Dave...ALL of those artists, and many more, have come to me PURELY because of my finding Show of Hands music at Sidmouth that time.

And as for 'Roots'.....well....every single word of that rings true to me. Perhaps you have to live in The West Country to see how our roots have been destroyed....and also to see how hard Steve, Phil and Seth are working to help plant new seeds...making new roots come up through those old ones...and bringing some knowledge of those roots BACK to the people of The West Country.


Oh...and if anyone wants to take me on over Roots...please...be my guest. ;0)


Lizzie :0)

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Scrump
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 12:56 PM

I don't think any of this SOH-bashing is very helpful as regards the removal of Seth Lakeman's White Hare from the Best Traditional Track nominations. Let's get the thread back on topic please folks!

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:05 PM

MMM Lizzie Cornish likes Show of Hands. I like the Kinks. is this particularly relevant to any discussion here?

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:07 PM

*yawn*

So, have you told your husband about Sam yet, Lizzie? When are you emigrating?

Subject: RE: Lakeman and Harding
From: Fiona
Date: 28 Jan 07 - 01:09 PM

Apologies from me Scrump et al, I should have known better than to mention them.

As for the 'White Hare', I really don't think MH favours Seth in any way, I think the Celtic Connections set was a coincidence. I was sorry that it wasn't a bit of the concert he did with Karine Polwart tbh, I'd have been interested to hear some of that one.

I had a look at Seths site, I don't think many of his fans care much one way or the other, however the website says he's playing at the Folk Awards (I'll put my spirtle away now).

Has anyone e-mailed Smooth Ops to ask for the recent playlists?

fx