BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)

Subject: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 02 May 05 - 07:03 AM

Don't believe the national percentages, the real battleground is in the key marginal constituencies.
We need only 10% of previously-identified labouring party supporters in the key marginals to abstain (or vote LibDem, same thing really) to allow Conservatives to take these seats.
And if we win these seats, Michael Howard will be the next PM.

You've guessed it! All our own polling in these key seats are showing that MORE than 10% of once-labouring party voters will stay away from the polls or vote LibDem, Green, Respect etc.

My mates and I are now confident of victory on thursday. We've already bought the champagne. The beauty of it all is that our old friends, the Saddam-loving lefties will have won it for Michael!

How good it is to be alive.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: alanabit
Date: 02 May 05 - 07:50 AM

The Conservatives will probably win because many Labour supporters will not support them, as part of a protest. The Conservatives are no more popular now than they were in 1997. You in your turn will probably be very glad that I will stay abroad. I have no doubt at all that the incoming government will quickly remind me of just why I left.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: RichM
Date: 02 May 05 - 11:03 AM

Don't put your trust and faith in politicians. They are liars and scoundrels.
It's good to turf out the old lot, but eventually you have to do the same to the new lot.
All politicians should be marked with a "best before" date.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: DMcG
Date: 02 May 05 - 11:18 AM

Don't put your trust in GUESTs, either. What effect do you think your post could have, GUEST,Tory Boy, apart from encourage Labour supporters to go and vote Labour if they were intending to do anything else? Or was that, perhaps, the point of the post?

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 May 05 - 01:14 PM

I rather hope it was the idea. The mere thought thought of a Tory Government led by Michael Howard having to make good on all their recent immigration retoric - is enough to put me off my Bovril.

There is still the hope that a poor Labour Government can get better - or be forced to (by its core supporters). A Tory Government gives little real hope to anyone - and its core supporters - will only make a poor Tory Government - an even worse one.   

Please vote - but please don't vote in any way that will inflict the Tories upon us again.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 02 May 05 - 01:40 PM

Not that it would make any difference. Different monkeys....same organ-grinder. Give em a couple of years, they'll both be wearing jackboots...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Iggy Yank
Date: 02 May 05 - 01:56 PM

"Not that it would make any difference. Different monkeys....same organ-grinder. Give em a couple of years, they'll both be wearing jackboots..."

Good! We could use a reality show designed by Orwell...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 May 05 - 02:04 PM

Yes all politicians are self serving crooks. Lets leave it to the market then evything will be made by children in Asia for almost nothing at all and what a wonderful stable world we will have.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 02 May 05 - 02:25 PM

"Yes all politicians are self serving crooks"

No, i think there are a few politicians out there who are honestly trying to do some good. They're just not the ones who are going to be elected...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Ramblingsid
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:54 PM

"Yes all politicians are self serving crooks"

The problem with that "argument" is that most politicians could do rather better for themselves out of politics. And most local politicians get little reward for their efforts.

In my experience most politicians are trying to work for their communities. I may agree or disagree with what they are doing but I do not doubt that they are doing their best according to their own political creed.

The advantage of the above comment is that it does not require the speaker to think rationally about the realities of policy decisions before coming out with it. It is far easier (and quicker) simply to write off the political process in a quick spasm of cynicism.

Which is a shame because we need people to think rather than just turn away.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 03 May 05 - 12:48 AM

Too late friends. The Conservative government-in-waiting has
out-thought and out-flanked you. You may not like it but there you are. 1970 all over again.

Don't worry all the lefty pro-Saddamites will have another chance to vote - in 2010 or 2009.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Phillip P
Date: 03 May 05 - 01:49 AM

God I just do not know. Labour ahead in the national polls, but behind in marginal seats.
I thought I knew how to cast my vote but now I'm not sure. I wanted to teach Blair a lesson and happy to see Brown succeed quickly but now I might just vote Labour with one of Polly Toynbee's nose-pegs.
Or maybe I'll just roll dice.
Best of 3.
Oh God.


PP

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:25 AM

Trolly Boy, you make no more sense than...er...something that makes no sense. Why would the "Saddam-loving lefties" hand over power to Howard exactly? Anyway, your stats are crap, you picked that 10% drivel from Blair's own propaganda. And we know how much we can trust Blair, don't we?

It's everyone's civic responsibility to vote - for whomever they wish, And if they are not sure, for Lib Dems!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Boab
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:56 AM

"Leftie pro-Saddamites"? What an idiotic attempt at insult! Tory-boy, go away and prepare to continue worship of Tory Blair rather than Tory Howard, for that is the indicated outcome in spite of all the T.B lies and spin over the WMDs and the kow-towing with the Washington warmongers. There will be enough of the electorate who will put anti-Blair-stench pegs on their noses and vote for the British Labour Party in the UK. A reduced majority [and there WILL be--]might just convince the party to dump Blair, for he most surely has destroyed some lifelong loyalties during his glory-seeking tenure.
   No decent person is "pro-Saddam". But let's get things back to truth; this "war" was initiated on the flimsy pretence of Iraq's mythical weapons of mass destruction, NOT for the release of the Iraqi people from Saddam's tyranny. That, by some sleight of rhetoric, became the reputed reason for invasion only after the WMD crap became so patently just that---crap. Hope you enjoy your champagne, Tory Boy.; you have the same initials as Tory Tony. Perhaps that means you can't lose, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:15 AM

The real difference is that the tories are working for the ultra rich from day one. Tax breaks , share optons, golden backslaps for complete fuckwits who cause mass unemployment to drive the cost of employing menials down, more families broken up through financial hardship........the consequent social ills coming from that.


Unless you're already on a couple of hundred grand a year, theres sod all for you from tories, tory boy. they have no respect for the fools who vote for them.

And frankly, I find it pretty hard to respect them myself.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:25 AM

Nah, Trolly Boy 's a Blairite.
Not a supporter of the rich
But a supporter of the nouveau riche.
Two sides of the same coin.
Kennedy's the only honest politician (I am tongue-in-cheek here, guys).
But LibDems are currently the lesser of the three evils; and they did oppose the war; and Kennedy's got a brand new baby; and it would surely make for a reduced majority for Blair, if the LibDems got the votes they deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: alanabit
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:25 AM

Tory Boy, if you think it is 1970 all over again, you should bear in mind that Ted Heath, on his own admission, was a long way to the left of tony Blair. The Brits have a choice between a Labour Party (which however unlikely) might evolve and a Tory Party which is right wing enough to be thought of as ridiculous in most of Europe. I wouldn't like the menu much, but when I have the option between eating shit and something else...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Phillip P
Date: 03 May 05 - 08:26 AM

I do not have any time for the Tories, Michael Howard or Tory Boy or whatever they call themselves.
I dislike intensely their attacks on immigrants and the whole nature of their mean-spirited campaign.
My problem is that if I do not vote Labour, there is a good chance Tories will win where I come from - but I will find it difficult to vote for Blair's party. I might do in the future, when he goes but now, it would hurt too much.
Voting neither Lab nor Con won't help either.
I had a look at the Lib Dem stuff but could find no mention of lifting people out of poverty and that is a clincher for me. They seem to be pale Tories round here.

I was thinking of putting my cross for Labour but writng NOT BLAIR on the voting slip but I don't know if that will count as a spoiled paper.
God, I've never been a Don't Know before.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Bainbo
Date: 03 May 05 - 08:59 AM

I agree with DMcG. "Toryboy" is obviously from Labour's campaign office, propogating Labour's current scare story: "If you vote Lib-Dem as a protest, you'll let the Tories in."

It's obviously nonsense. The Lib-Dems and Tories comprise the anti-Labour vote. So voting Lib-Dem just splits that opposition vote, possibly even strengthening Labour.

What's worrying is that, days before an election, Labour can't think of any better way of making you vote for them. Like policies, for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 03 May 05 - 09:14 AM

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss . . .

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Gervase
Date: 03 May 05 - 10:50 AM

Makes me glad I live in Wales - Plaid Cymru have policies I can actually support!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Micca
Date: 03 May 05 - 12:21 PM

This is a time for applying Micca's patent, "How to Vote" system

There may not be anyone I want to Vote For
But there is ALWAYS someone I want to Vote against

No Matter How much I dislike or disaprove of Blair and things he has done It isnt near as Much as I do of Howard and the Tories.
Unfortunately a Vote for teh Lib dems is a good way to split the vote and let the Tories in. and you must have a short memory if you want Tories in!!!!

As to Give Tony a Bloody Nose/send a Message to New Labour?
the trouble with that idea is you get sentenced to 5 years of the Howard Thatcherite Tories for doing it and that is like shooting yourself in the foot to get rid of a flea!!!!
You Know they will Privatise the NHS, Cut Public services to gve the Rich Tax breaks, sell off everything thats left that is Publicly owned at knock down prices to their mates in the City because its what they have done before, after all who was it that sold off rail, Water, Telecomms, Gas, Electricity, and Privatised hospital cleaning so that MRSA could get a hold (Yeah the SAME MRSA that Howard says they will fight and control!!) To use a current London expression " Your having a Giraffe"

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 May 05 - 12:44 PM

Micca, the stats don't support Blair's claim that "if 10% of Labour voters abstain or vote for LibDems, this will let the Tories in". The numbers just don't stack up. And anyway - helied about the war; would you trust him now in anything he says?

Blair's call for tactical voting is a sham. The Tories stand no chance; Labour is bound to get in. The best we can hope is for a reduced majority for Blair, and a little bit more of "checks and balances" with a stronger Lib Dem faction.

Anyway - Kennedy's baby is so cute!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Micca
Date: 03 May 05 - 01:56 PM

George, people say Blair lied about the war as if it is something NEW!!!!! They ALL lie, its what being a Politician is about!! They promise things they can't deliver so that we will elect them and lie in their teeth all the time, The Only reason the Lib Dems are being a bit "Honest" is they are hoping for MORE POWER out of it and if the get it they will be corrupted by it. I just think, in the main, the ordinary voter gets a better deal from Labour than Conservative but I am with Avrell Harriman " The desire to be elected to office should bar you from standing"

" Power corrupts and absolute Power corupts absolutely"

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:26 PM

Your individual votes count for one and no more than one, in constituencies of 50 to 60 thousand voters, of whom maybe half will vote.

Changing policies and parties takes time and commitment and much discussion and not a little compromise with like minded people.

That's why we have political parties. Stop going on about one vote. Join a party and do something while you still have the chance. The course of party politics is going down hill.

We may end up with the American experience where only the very rich can stand for president and most people dont bother to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 May 05 - 02:44 PM

Makes me glad I live in Wales - Plaid Cymru have policies I can actually support!

How do they stand on 'hunting with dogs'? *Smiles*

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 05 - 03:28 PM


How do they stand on 'hunting with dogs'
What about hunting with bitches instead?

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: mandoleer
Date: 03 May 05 - 04:39 PM

Best we can hope for is a Parliament with a very close majority. If either get a vast majority, they'll be unbearable. If it only takes a few rebels in the ranks to upset the apple cart, they're far more careful. I'm still going to vote for Your Party. Just to be awkward. And I still believe we should have two votes - one positive and one negative.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 03 May 05 - 06:11 PM

Some of the self serving comments on this thread disgust me.
Especially Miccas' writing off Blairs war crimes with the cavalier "Oh well they all lie"

This was not simply a lie about economics or public spending, but a scam to achieve a place in history, which caused the deaths of over 80 British troops and who knows how many innocent men women and children.

As i'v said on another thread, the sight of mutilated infants in Iraq comes back to me often.

There is only one issue in this election. The depravity of those who take glory and power before the lives of innocent children.

Blair had a choice, America would have removed Saddam without the UK.
They announced as much well before the war, but Blair could not resist a bid for glory.

BI is correct all politicians are self serving crooks.
National politicians are not stupid and are only too aware that nothing much can be done under this system to make society better, but they still propagate the idea that they or their party can solve the problems.

In other words we are all fools, conned into believing their electoral game is reality.

If politicians were honest ,they would tell the electorate that if we dont change our lifestyle, take a dramatic cut in our standard of living, and slash energy production, the planet will be fucked in 50 years.

But what do I know? I'm a "utopian idealist living in cloud cuckoo land"

In my opinion, those who believe this system can be changed from within, by socialism or any other ism are the real fools.

Start fighting back in July 2005.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Cllr
Date: 03 May 05 - 06:45 PM

good to see shambles supporting the party that brought us PEL laws, Way to go shambles, not as an important an issue to you as I thought obviously, Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 03 May 05 - 09:02 PM

Well! Some have got the impression that I'm a fan of labouring party.
Not so - but I shouldn't have filched their 10% figure. Our own number was close but not quite as sexy as their 10% so I just sexed it up a little. We didn't think they'd actually start using it themselves on posters! I truly believe Blair is a snake-oil salesman who has never told the truth about anything. The rest of labouring party are just as bad.

My whole family circle is Conservative. We believe in the market, free enterprise, hard work, Britain, hunting. We are not keen on unlimited immigrants or bogus asylumers.
Dad was once a candidate but in safe labouring seat so got screwed. I was once a front-line doorstepper and phone-poller but now provide support.

We are in favour of the war but displeased that we were lied to. I'm sorry that some lefties take offence but if you were not in favour of deposing Saddam, you were in favour of retaining him. Seems obvious. Anyway, lets be friendly, even if we disagree.

My mates keep me up to date and I let you know some of it. My purpose in posting is for the pure delight of gloating.
I have had gloating thrust upon me in the past. It's now my turn.
The news from the campaign is good and we are still confident that Michael will be off to the Palace before lunch on Friday.

Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Cllr
Date: 04 May 05 - 04:41 AM

I'm a real tory and proud of it, the reason people believe you (guest tory boy) are a labour supporter is because labour's main worry is a low turnout and by postive provocative posts you are making people go out and that they do vote labour. gloating is not a nice thing and reinforces the view that conservatives are not nice people so the only reasonable conclusion is that you are a liar or an idiot. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 05 - 05:45 AM

I think you're probably right there, Cllr, about "Tory Boy" being a front, designed to make people vote Labour.

Mind you, if I saw Michael Howard for the first time, I think I'd be inclined to think the same of him...

I'm glad to see you stick to name "Tory" - I gather the party line now is that it should be abandoned. I imagine that's an idea that will be dropped after Thursday, along with Michael Howard and a lot of other things.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: robomatic
Date: 04 May 05 - 05:51 AM

For some reason, the public broadcasting station (radio) in Boston broadcasts BBC news early in the morning while the locals are waking up and looking for the 'on' button to their coffee makers.

who won the Revolution, anyway? (visions of Paul Revere returning from warning the colonists settling down with a crumpet and a (very) antique wireless tuned to the Beeb)

They are interviewing a pollster paid by the BBC who says:
1) The Kerry effect - During the US election Kerry gave American voters lots of reasons to vote against 'W', but not enough reasons to vote FOR Kerry. Likewise, the Conservatives have been beating on Blair but generating severe revulsion in voters against voting for Michael Howard.
2) So a lot of folks are induced to vote Liberal Democrat, even though few can tell you what they stand for!

The pollster says Blair will win and the Lib Dems will place a stronger than expected third. (BTW, he's American)








I think it goes to show what we've known all along: Democracy's for suckers!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:46 AM

good to see shambles supporting the party that brought us PEL laws, Way to go shambles, not as an important an issue to you as I thought obviously, Cllr

A party political approach to the Licensing Act 2003 issue will not provide us with much solace.

The Tories opposed the new Act because they were the oppositition and had to - but as usual did not really provide much of an alternative. Have you seen the Tories mention it in this run-up?

The Lib Dems peers were the ones most to blame - for if they had actually voted with the Tories (having supported them up to that point)- this would have killed the Licensing Act 2003. They did the Lib Dem thing by still talking against the Bill but voting with the Government.

This is not much of an excuse for Labour rushing to introduce such a piss-poor Act - but there is a possiblity that if the effect on live music does prove to be as harmful as many of us fear - that the Powers within the Act itself - will allow the Secretary of State to tweak the Act. That is what has been promised - anyway....*Smiles*

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 May 05 - 10:54 AM

Aw come on Shambles, "That is what has been promised", that's it, we're screwed. When did they last fulfil any promise?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:04 AM

I do however have to contrast the differences.

Over the Licensing issue - I rather had to push my own Labour MP to do anything and wait forever for a reply. Over a long period I only had two (standard) replies from the DCMS - signed by Kim Howells.

Living in the seat with the smallest Labour majority - in the last few weeks I have received much from my sitting MP, two letters from Tony Blair and one from Gordon Brown!

There is a local election too and councillors who have given me the 'bum's rush' over local licensing issues - are now knocking on my door and expecting me to vote for them.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Cllr
Date: 04 May 05 - 11:37 AM

we didn't oppose it because we had to shambles   we opposed it because it was more interference from this nanny state government and we thought it was badly thought out and wrong. cllr

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:25 PM

Knee-jerk slogans like "nanny-state government" don't really add up to much. If the implication is that this government is particulary anti-liberatarian, and that the Tories would be the other way round, that's a little bit implausible.

I can't see how legalising 24 hour drinking and casinos, and down-grading the penalities against people who smoke grass are particularly nannyish. I can't see how opposing such measures is particularly libertarian.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:33 PM

Anyway, it would be nice to see Blair hit where it hurts - in the marginals...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:54 PM

The one thing I have noticed is that Nice Mr Kennedy is the only major Party Leader who HASNT resorted to insulting the other Party Leaders . He at least maintains the appearance of being a gentleman !

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: The Barden of England
Date: 04 May 05 - 12:54 PM

Ain't no way that the Tories are going to win, that much is obvious. Regarding the licensing I've given all the landlords round here copies of section 177 of the act, and reminded them that they need to 'tick the box' if they wanted Karaoke even. Of course once they get the necessary approval on their Premises Licence and the place has less than 200 people and it's accoustic music, and it's between the hours of 08:00 and 24:00 there's bugger all the council officials can do, so keep pushing the publicans.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 May 05 - 01:03 PM

The lowest infaltion, the lowest unemployment, the minimum wage, the tax credits for poorest earners, the investment in education and health, the anti-hunt act, repeal of anti gay and lesbian legislation, the right to roam with access to wild places.

Blair may have judged it wrong on the war but after 15 years of UN resolutions we have one less fascist dictator.

As for the rest of the comments above most politicians, like most people, and I mean of all parties except the far right, are honest and hard working. Many people who are directors on boards of companies do not work hard or serve the public well. And at the risk of ranting - voting is essential, but so is organising inside parties if you really want democracy.

If all you ever do is vote we will all be waving democracy good bye.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Gervase
Date: 04 May 05 - 01:37 PM

Plaid on hunting? Simon Thomas, our sitting Plaid MP is all in favour. Makes it even easier to support him!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 May 05 - 01:58 PM

Must be a bit difficult - whilst he is sitting on you and you are supporting him - when you come to a fence you have to jump? Or does he just hit you a bit harder with the riding crop?

*Smiles*

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 May 05 - 06:44 PM

He inherited that inflation rate and unemployment from the Tories, the minimum wage is far too low, investment in education and health has mostly disappeared in layers of unnecessary beaurocracy, teachers have too much paperwork to be able to devote enough time to teaching our kids, hospitals are filthy, understaffed, and only able to cut waiting time by booking ops and then cancelling them (sending the patients back to the start of the procedure), and the right to roam is limited to how far you can walk from home, given that public transport is obscenely expensive, and unreliable, especially at weekends, which is the time most people have the leisure to roam.

Against that lot, banning hunting, and repealing gay and lesbian laws, while right, and welcome, doesn't stack up to much for eight years work.

Add in your "misjudgement" about the war (blatant dishonesty, and contempt for both due process, and the British people) and he doesn't exactly fit into your honest and hardworking category.

He should go Les, now, before the election, and since he will not, voting is indeed essential, to reduce his majority (the best we can hope for) to the point where his party will be forced to ditch him.

As long as we have parties using the "whip" to keep their MPs in line, internal change is impossible, so they have to be hit hard at the election, pour encourager les autres.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 May 05 - 02:18 PM

I went today without realising I had my red glasses on. The person outside wanted my voting number - WHY?

I said to her "are you an official" and with her negative reply I asked her why she wanted to know. On seeing the Blue rosette I pointed out that my glasses where not to be read as anything other than a pair of glasses worn by a poser. What arrogance to have people clocking yer number. They have all that inside, and it's official, and the politcal parties don't get an automatic sniff of that data.

I walked past two other polling stations (And there may be one near the Folk Club I am going to) just to wind them up on there own assumptions.

As one PM put it when asked how he managed to vote "I just hold my nose and mark the paper"

FWIW I never espouse any political party, regardles of my voting preferrence. Red is sartorial and long may it be so,

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: brid widder
Date: 05 May 05 - 03:23 PM

I too have never been a 'don't know' before... and if it was just about home...economy, health, education etc, I don't think I would have a problem today.... but the party I have supported all my life has taken me to war with a country and people with whom I have no argument...why? to support the biggest bully in the playground? with or without the lies I cannot condone that or support them to do it again...to Iran? Korea?

God forbid that the Tories should ever be in power again... but I am sure the balance of power will change tonight, maybe we will be in a situation where the three major parties need to negotiate with each other... would that be such a bad thing?

I think the situation might have been different if Tony had resigned... but he is insisting not only that the Labour party is the right one for the future but that he is the right leader. He is therefore asking for my support to make a similar decision again... if HE feels it is 'the right thing to do'... regardless of the UN.

After a lifetime as a Labour Party supporter my concience will not allow me to continue that support today.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 May 05 - 03:59 PM

Don T,

I recognise the need for geater public investment in health and education. The Labour Party campaigned for that since Callaghan and Wilson and we got 18 years of Thatcher.

I have worked for greater public spending. If that is what you want go and argue for it and I hope you get more seats than we did between '79 and '97.

You might be right about Blairs bad judgement and I guess he will go.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 05 May 05 - 04:10 PM

Wars are happening in the world as we speak wars have happened in the past and will happen in the future -conflict is the nature of mankind, we are territorial by nature and if someone invaded your territory, you would fight tooth and nail to defend it. what makes our involvement in one war any more terrible than ignoring-as the United Nations have- the attrocities in Ruanda, or Daifur- we sit on our high horses saying the Iraq war was terrible-(well all wars are)-but do nothing about Daifur but sit and watch them die -I hated the war in Iraq no more than I hated seeing the terror and depravation the Iraqi people have suffered for years. The UN is as corrupt and self serving as any individual Government (US or UK)-countless broken resolutions by Israel have proven that. Please remember for every person killed at war three will die of starvation why we sit and prevaricate about it.The solution to war is to find a solution to poverty-it is the only solution and I believe Labour is the only true means of finding that.