The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:27 PM

Volgadon:
"'You're not wrong LH, twaddle like that is never going to influence anybody'
Not so sure about that. Somebody must have influenced Wav."

Perhaps so, just maybe, but if that's the extent of their influence I don't think we need lose any sleep.. fools can be led, without doubt, but how many folkies are that stupid?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:32 PM

Ha! Well, only a few, in my experience. Not enough to raise any major concern.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:47 PM

Your life's work?
Blimey, it's not much of a life, eh.
Do us all a favour and get another one. Take up jazz and annoy the tits off a whole new bunch of people.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 03:28 PM

I've also questioned capitalism, monarchism, and other aspects of our status quo, in my life's work.

Further examples of your resolute refusal to assimilate into Our Own Good English Culture. Such preconceptions and prejudices are an obstacle to your repatriation - hardly the wonder it isn't going well, Wavy.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 03:59 PM

In MY life's work I have implicitly questioned the judgement of misguided people like Gervase.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:27 PM

My life's work isn't done yet. And I can't say I've heard the question!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:09 PM

"I have found there are people on this forum whose wisdom I appreciate, and whose company I'm honoured to be in. I've learnt stuff by being here. . . ."

Smokey got that right! One of the undoubtedly unintended benefits of someone like David blurting the kind of blather he does is the, rather that calling out the local bullies to savage the village idiot (as one or two people here seem to think as they gaze down from their lofty positions on high), it often stimulates very interesting and informative discussions by way of knowledgeable people stepping in to refute the nonsense. These little broo-ha-has tend to stimulate a good exchange of ideas, they often cause us to re-examine some of our own assumptions, and everyone winds up learning.

Except, generally, for the stumblebum who uttered the claptrap in the first place and insists on digging his heels in despite the tsunami of good information from which he could learn.

In addition, I have met some people here on-line who seem like really interesting and knowledgeable folks (it helps to get to know someone if they are vigorously expressing their beliefs and opinions), and I hope to encounter them again on other threads.

So for those who like to feel superior and sit back and go "Tsk tsk," I'd say open your eyes (and minds) and take another look.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:43 PM

Everyone likes to feel superior, and they all have their own particular ways of doing so, Don, some more nasty than others. But most of them just won't own up to it.

As for benefiting from the wisdom of others, I find that much more satisfying in 3-D than online. Things are too ephemeral online, and you never know for sure what you're dealing with. I'd rather sit down in a song circle and admire someone else's musicianship firsthand and see and hear what they do than talk about it over a computer keyboard.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:54 PM

"Everyone likes to feel superior. . . ." Really? Isn't that a rather broad generalization? I've met people like that, but I tend to find that people who like to feel that things are (and should be) equitable are generally a lot more pleasant to be around.

I've also noticed (sound psychology, in fact) that people tend to endow others with their own predilictions.

I hate to say it, but it looks like you're feeling superior again, Little Hawk. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:04 PM

. . . and information, and manifestations of wisdom, can come from many different sources. I don't see that information acquired on-line is any more ephemeral than information acquired any other way. One should, of course, verify, in either case.

I enjoy discussing things on-line with knowledgeable people. And I most certainly enjoy getting together with friends, talking, swapping songs. . . .

Two different things. Apples and oranges.

I'm not talking about "either-or." I'm talking about "and."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:20 PM

"I hate to say it, but it looks like you're feeling superior again, Little Hawk. . . ."

Yeah. I am. ;-) I did say "everyone", didn't I, Don? That obviously includes me. But I own up to it, and I laugh at all of us...myself included.

We all argue and debate as we go through life...sometimes about fairly substantial things, usually about very trivial things. The moment we start doing it, our egos become engaged. Our every response is an attempt to assert some kind of ego dominance over the other person's last response. And on and on and on it goes. This thread is one of the most egregious examples of that petty process spinning itself out over and over again.

And what does it all come down to?

"You're an asshole."

"No, I'm not."

"Yes, you are, and what you just said proves it."

"No, it doesn't."

"Oh, but it does. I am a highly respected folksinger and all my friends adore me and they all say you're an asshole too, so it's obviously true."

"No, it isn't, because you didn't understand me that last time."

"Oh, yes I did. We all understood you. But you don't understand yourself, because you're an asshole."

And so on, and so on.

And now you're telling me that I'm feeling superior? Well, yeah! Of course I am. I like me better than I do the guy I'm arguing with. In that respect I'm exactly like everyone else here. We're ALL assholes at times!!!!

And when we are we go...   Bla. Bla. Bla.

But it's fun to do that, right? And it's just too irrestistible not to try one more time to get in the last telling word that PROVES the other guy is wrong, right?

Prove me wrong by never posting to this silly damn thread again, Don.

Surprise me. Prove you're not driven by your little preening ego the way I and every else here is driven by our little preening ego. Prove that YOU are better than that.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:18 PM

Dear oh dear.. do I have to call Matron?

My theory is that we all have an 'inner twat' - an element overlooked by conventional transactional analysis. WaV is a classic example of someone simply not in tune with, and unaware of, his inner twat.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:50 PM

LH - You were originally talking about 'moral superiority', and now you're not - there are many ways to feel superior, and sometimes it just can't be helped. Some of us don't like feeling superior just for the sake of it, but to be able to bestow a bit of knowledge or wisdom to someone can be no different to giving a gift. Naturally, the motivation can vary, but it's cynical to assume everyone's is as you describe. Having said that, as a Northern English certified curmudgeon, it's my patriotic duty to admire your cynicism ;-)

Don - When are you emigrating to England?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:57 PM

With all due respect, Little Hawk, you're doing it again. Aloof, superior, above-it-all, and judgmental. You do that quite a bit when, apparently, a discussion gets a bit too heated for your taste. Some threads operate of a couple of different levels. You are seeing only the surface and you are missing what really matters.

I have long since given up on David. My interest here is the discussion with the other folks, to read what they have to say, and to express what I have to say. I will quit when I am ready and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else.

Little Hawk, I like you. You are an intelligent, generally well-informed person (albeit one who has some erroneous preconceptions about American politics that you tend to reiterate in every political discussion), and in general, I enjoy your posts.

But—(and you knew there was a "but," of course) there are times when you can get outrageously pompous, and this is one of those times.

Sorry.

Don Firth

P. S. I will probably not be back tonight. I am following the election returns.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:26 AM

. . . and information, and manifestations of wisdom, can come from many different sources. I don't see that information acquired on-line is any more ephemeral than information acquired any other way. One should, of course, verify, in either case.

I enjoy discussing things on-line with knowledgeable people. And I most certainly enjoy getting together with friends, talking, swapping songs. . . .

Two different things. Apples and oranges.

I'm not talking about "either-or." I'm talking about "and."

Don Firth

Don't see how internet forums like this are substantially different from the great minds of the 18th century corresponding by letter with each other. Of course it's faster.
Excellent post Don and I quite agree with you. Wav has provided great learning opportunities, it's just a shame that he himself refuses to learn. For the miles of screen space he wasted on braggin about his BA in humaities, his attitude of refusing to learn shows what a waste of time his schooling was.
After these threads, I would definitely look you up were I in the Northwest USA, or go to a show.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:11 AM

"Don't see how internet forums like this are substantially different from the great minds of the 18th century corresponding by letter with each other"

The very great difference is that it's not the great minds of the 21st Century corresponding, but ordinary people.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:11 AM

"Against capitalist migration, the UN did decree," (Brother)...and, whilst congratulating the new leader of one of the nations within our UN, Barack Obama, we should remember/realize that the head of the United Nations, since 01.01.2007, is Ban Ki-moon.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 02:35 PM

And how would that be different from ordinary people talking in person?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 02:48 PM

Anyone else get the impression that this WankaboutsVerse is getting in the way of an interesting thread?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 03:37 AM

Stigweard: as an "ordinary" - if well travelled and trained - person I maintain walkaboutsverse.741.com is a good way forward for humanity, hence I'm here.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 05:18 AM

Here's a question for you, Wavy - how can it be a good way forward for humanity when humanity has rejected it wholesale as the heap of racist shit it most surely is?

Mind you, it makes about as much sense as The Book of Mormon, so maybe in time, the Book of Walkaboutsverse will acquire a similar status & mindless following - people are daft enough after all. But not this person, Wavy - so if it's not a good way forward for me, then how can it be a good way forward for humanity?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 07:50 AM

"Stigweard: as an "ordinary" - if well travelled and trained - person I maintain walkaboutsverse.741.com is a good way forward for humanity, hence I'm here"

Get to fuck, wind-up boy!

"And how would that be different from ordinary people talking in person?"

A number of ways I reckon. Firstly, talking on the web enables us to express opinions we might not be so open about if we talking in person. This is a double-edges sword of course. In some ways it allows people to express themselves freely but on the other hand it also allows some rather more ugly opinions to be aired.

Secondly, it means we can talk to people from all over the world and get insights we never would have got. Mudcat has proved invaluable in this respect, and I can honestly say my opinions on some matters have changed considerably since getting an alternative view from people who were there.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 08:18 AM

WalkaboutsVerse ? what plonker, he really has lost touch with reality,
his inane drivel " a good way forward for humanity " my arse.

eric

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:18 AM

Eric, stop holding back. Let it go and tell it like it is!
This thread really should be called the Weakly Wank, given wor Davey's obsession with self-abuse.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 10:31 AM

Geeziz what a laugh!!!! Can anyone actually believe this crap? Why and how on earth could even someone having a soupcon of brains believe that a racist and doofus piece of shit like David Franks could offer a "good way" forward? How damned egocentric can you be to even have the gall to suggest it?

David, you are just pathetic. With your head so far up your ass it is impossible to see anything forward. You're just a dick.....a really tiny dick.....just a dick........not even a hard on.........I'm told the only time you have ever had an erection was watching a sheep being sheared.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: s&r
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:03 AM

A first degree is merely moderate education. Your training is out of date. Without exception every poster on this thread demonstrates better education, training, insight, and understanding of any topic you opine about than you do

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: s&r
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 11:04 AM

Sorry, not sure about fork lift trucks

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: s&r
Date: 06 Nov 08 - 02:10 PM

Not sure about 'ordinary' either. Can I coin a word infraordinary to describe someone whose arrogance is without foundation in any meri?

STU

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:33 AM

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT

Poem 212 of 230: REMEMBER THEM?

Back when we became defenders
    (We have plainly been attackers),
Defenders' blood, sweat and years
    Were paid to keep a good home-way -
A way yet to be part stealth-blown,
    As mass immigration gained-sway
And as we slipped as maintainers.


From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: s&r
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:19 AM

"blood sweat and years" is the first poetic phrase I have found in your work.

I just have a horrible feeling that it's a typo....

If not, well done.

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: peregrina
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:54 AM

WAV, I suggest you try 'repatriating'--that is, deleting-- all words in your verse that are not of Anglo-Saxon origin and not using those words again.

The point that the language you use is itself the product of centuries of cultural exchange and human movement would be immediately evident.

Language itself affirms that we are one species with a capacity to be enriched by borrowing from each other's cultures.

A lot of the unique expressiveness of English comes from its vast vocabulary. Song preceded language in human evolution; and music no less than language is enriched by assimilating new ingredients.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 05:22 AM

Defenders' blood, sweat and years
    Were paid to keep a good home-way -
A way yet to be part stealth-blown,
    As mass immigration gained-sway

WWII wasn't fought to defend British (let alone English) culture. In fact, actual folk traditions suffered badly from the disruption of war, and might have been maintained better if we'd made peace with Germany. (There certainly wouldn't have been any American influence on British culture, and none of those multiculturalismsesss.) On the other hand, nobody's shown me that mass immigration has done anything to English culture other than enrich it.

So the reality is more like this:

Defenders' blood, sweat and years
    Were paid to defeat Fascism, albeit at some cost to English traditional culture
Which, fortunately, lots more people are now interested in
    With the additional benefit that it's subsequently been enriched by the effects of mass immigration.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 07:26 AM

At least he's back - I was worried he'd done a bunk.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 07:37 AM

"Mass immigration"? The National Statistics Office shows that less than 8% of the population is from ethnic minorities. Net immigration is less than 1/4 million a year, out of a population of nearly 59 m.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:15 AM

More bilge from DF, alias WAV:

Back when we became defenders
    (We have plainly been attackers),
Defenders' blood, sweat and years
    Were paid to keep a good home-way -
A way yet to be part stealth-blown,
    As mass immigration gained-sway
And as we slipped as maintainers.

"And we slipped as maintainers" is yet another example of your leaden ear and your complete lack of any poetic talent. I've also noticed your utterly pointless use of the hyphen. I could just about stomach a hyphen in the phrase "stealth-blown" - but why in God's name use one in "gained-sway", or "home-way" for that matter? It's idiotic. My guess is that you do it because you think it dignifies your words and makes it look Poetic with a capital P or Lyrical with a capital L.

As for the message in the so-called poem - and I suppose we have to be grateful that there is some visible message - it stinks. It implies that all the poor sods who died in wars were doing no more than protecting their culture, and that their efforts were undermined by stealthy, mass immigration.

What crap.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 09:29 AM

This verse becomes particularly repugnant when you consider the number of people from countries occupied during the Empire who died fighting for a motherland they only knew as an oppressor.

Has to be said WAV, this sordid little stanza harbours some rather odious opinions.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:40 PM

"And as we slipped as maintainers."

Should that have been 'mountaineers'?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:09 PM

Hey, guys, cheer up! Obama won.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 03:28 PM

Did he? Crikey.. I wonder how he'll react to the rise of the English Nationalist Party?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:15 PM

If he's like most Americans, he won't even notice... ;-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 06:57 PM

HEY!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 08 Nov 08 - 08:41 PM

I say - you chaps out there in the colonies - less bickering please. We're supposed to be protecting my Good English Culture here..

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:41 AM

Sorry. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 04:07 AM

"At least he's back - I was worried he'd done a bunk." (Stigweard)...The Alnwick Northumbrian Gathering, rather.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 05:04 AM

Time to get winding everyone up then!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 07:52 AM

"Defenders' blood, sweat and years
    Were paid to keep a good home-way -
A way yet to be part stealth-blown,
    As mass immigration gained-sway"

Well, there it is: WAV's racism and xenophobia summed up tidily in four poorly-scanning lines. Can't say we're twisting your wirds with htis one, matey - hoist by your own racist petard.

Wavey, you still haven't told me who you think contributes more to English society: the immigrant doing several poorly-paid jobs to keep their family, or the "re-pat" who is content to collect the dole because he can't find a job in his chosen field, and won't take whatever work he can find? You also haven't explained why it's okay for you to choose to live in the region of Britain where you are least likely to find employment in your chosen field (just because you fancy living there), but other people who choose to move somewhere to actually find work and NOT be a burden on the state are the ones who are in the wrong...


+

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:56 AM

"...The Alnwick Northumbrian Gathering, rather."

Rather.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 09:08 AM

I bet they were chuffed to little mintballs to have their event graced by a racist, talentless, workshy ocker.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 09:45 AM

STEALTH-BLOWN?

What the hell is that? LOL.....Geeziz, gimmee a break here...............ROTFLMAO........

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 10:14 AM

I'm more and more puzzled by WAV's depiction of World War II as a defence of something called "a good home-way". In the real world, the war led directly to

- the disruption of centuries-old rural traditions of dance, song and ritual, some of which were only revived decades later while much was lost altogether
- a massive increase in the average Brit's exposure to American culture
- the decolonisation of the Empire, which in turn enabled former subjects of the Empire to move freely around the new Commonwealth, and in particular to come to Britain

If you define "English culture" as "English traditional culture as it was in the early part of the 20th century"*, then there's no two ways about it - the War was a disaster for English culture.

If Halifax had become Prime Minister and Britain had made peace with Germany, on the other hand, none of the things listed above would have happened. British traditions would not have been disrupted by the upheaval of war, and would have been encouraged and celebrated by a Fascist-sympathising government. There would have been no GIs in Britain, no Lend-Lease and no Americanisation of our own good British culture. The rulers of the great new Germano-British Empire wouldn't have dreamt of decolonisation, and its colonial subjects certainly wouldn't have been permitted to settle in the British homeland.

In short, World War II was fought for freedom, for democracy, for capitalism (in the West and Far East), for Communism (in Eastern Europe)... but definitely not for the preservation of English traditional culture. On the contrary, it promoted social mobility, the importation of American culture, racial equality and immigration. If WAV had been around at the time, I think he might have been happier on the other side - along with bucolic English dreamers like Henry Williamson and Rolf Gardiner.

*I don't.