The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 02:12 PM

They just don't feel inclined to be bound by the results of such a vote if it doesn't go their way... ;-)

Exactly, which is one reason it wouldn't work.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 02:29 PM

I'm not saying it would work. ;-) I'm saying they would enjoy participating in the excercise.

Bodies like the U.N. can only work if they have the collective authority (and the military muscle) to enforce their decisions...and if their decisions are wise ones in a general sense.

The victors at the end of WWII created the U.N. to represent their own selfish interests, NOT to free the world. They set up the Security Council with that idea in mind. Then they had a falling out amongst themselves, and that led to the Cold War.

It has all been an exercise in grandiose self-interest on the part of a few powerful nations, and at the expense of the rest.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 02:35 PM

OK, now that we have cleared that up.

WAV, what makes you think the UN would be able to enforce the provisions you have outlined in your ideas about how the world ought to be?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 02:37 PM

For the record, WAV, some of your ideas sound just fine to me, some others fail to enthuse me.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM

Well, as said, KB, the UN would have to become stronger/more democratic, such that individual nations did not over-ride it's decisions. And further to "Like Bush when he failed to get the U.N. Security Council's approval to invade Iraq in 2003."..(LH)...when that chap (perhaps Iraq's Minister for Defence?) nicknamed "Comic Ali" kept answering "no" regarding weapons that could reach other nations, he WAS saying the truth (whilst joking about other things, such as his side's chances). And that was given by the US and UK as a major reason for invasion. (Does anyone know what became of him, by the way?). And still further...

Poem 41 of 230: EVEN AFTER LINCOLN, STEINBECK, AND KING

Written at a public toilet by the
    Statue of Liberty:
"What of Equality, Fraternity;
    And Democracy!?"

The U.S.A. has aided dictators -
    Right-Wing leaders, of course;
So some's bestowal of democracy
    Is hypocrisy.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,stu
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 05:49 AM

Ali Hassan al-Majid ("Chemical Ali"), ex-Baath leader in northern Iraq, was sentenced to death for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity

stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 06:01 AM

Comical Ali was the Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf - see Here for more.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 11:25 AM

That information minister was great.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 02:17 PM

Come on, no anser for me? If it is a good idea, shouldn't we know more about it?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 06:43 PM

"Dictators love getting a chance to sound off and vote in any forum like the U.N. They enjoy it. They just don't feel inclined to be bound by the results of such a vote if it doesn't go their way... ;-)"

Fiji refused to attend the latest 'big hats of the South Pacific' boozeup - Fiji had a coup and had promised they would have elections by now, which they haven't...

Point proved.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 04:29 AM

Frankly, I didn't know about the latest, 2006, coup in Fiji, FT - but the reasoning seems to be the same as the earlier ones. Indian Fijians have now outnumbered Melanesian Fijians and, via democracy, achieved postitions of power (voting for their own), which leads to coups, via Melanesians in the military, and the continued ill-feeling/ethnic conflict that I noticed during my visit in the 90s.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 02:33 PM

IMHO, trying to solve strife in the world by isolating each individual ethnic group into its own restricted compound (ghetto) is neither possible nor desirable.

As it is, people are just going to have to bloody-well learn how to get along.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 04:09 AM

But, if ideally the law of the land and the culture of the land are closely linked, what would you do, Don?..have different laws for different cultures living within the same land? I know there is for Aboriginal Australians, e.g., which I agree with - but I still maintain that, learning from the past, immigration controls should now be increased the world over.

Further, as it's nearly time to reflect on the Olympics...

Poem 143 of 230: OLYMPICS OR GLOBALISATION?

Largely, I'd say, an Olympic Games is
    One nation's way v. other nations
During fairly-fought sport competitions -
    "Citius, altius, fortius."

So if all states become multicultural
    Or humans become culturally one -
Through settlement and globalisation -
    Holding Olympics would then be null.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 04:25 AM

"but I still maintain that, learning from the past, immigration controls should now be increased the world over"

What examples from the past would you use to illustrate this point? Please be specific or your argument is invalid.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 07:42 AM

Without being flippant, Stigweard, please see above.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 12:43 PM

"So if all states become multicultural
    Or humans become culturally one -
Through settlement and globalisation -
    Holding Olympics would then be null."

I dunno, the ancient Greeks got along alright. The olympics are about sports, not about nationalism and are meant to celebrate the fact that athletics know no nationality.

What about an answer to my nationalism with fair trade queston?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 01:21 PM

". . . if ideally" [??] "the law of the land and the culture of the land are closely linked. . . ."

The only places in the world where this is the case is in autocratic theocracies such as Afghanistan under the Taliban.

"Ideally?"

Absolutely not! You may as well have a nation of robots.* A society dominated by conformity, restriction, prohibition, and oppression.

Don Firth

*Robot    Etymology: Czech, from robota, compulsory labor; slave.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 02:11 PM

No, I amend that. Another example of this kind of society is the Soviet Union, in which authors could be censured and persecuted for writing something the authorities didn't approve of (Boris Pasternak, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn) or composers could be reprimanded and denied performance for writing "the wrong kind of music" (the Zhdanov decree in 1948, condemning Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Khachaturian, and other Soviet composers as "formalist" and "antipopular.").

What you are advocating, WAV, gets pretty close to this: wanting to discourage or prevent people from singing "the wrong kind of songs."

If you want to go a little further into history for examples, there was a time when one could be burned at the stake, not for what one did outwardly, but for not having the "correct" beliefs.

No. That's not the way the world should go; not the way any country should go. That's a big step backwards on the road to civilization.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 02:52 PM

Does this cultural isolation apply to foods as well? No pasta outside of China, for instance? I am confused...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 03:34 PM

Add to that list Mikhail Bulgakov, who could hardly get any of his things published or produced, even his play about Stalin's early years, which Joe himself admitted was exactly how things were, but the people needed a myth. Another fine example is the poet Osip Mandelstam, who lost his life because of a verse poking fun at Stalin.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 05:07 AM

Those USSR examples are more to do with (lack of) freedom of speech/political matters, rather than questioning/supporting the multicultural state, Don and Volgadon. In muslim nations, BOTH the law of the land and the Koran say a man can take up to four wives...should it be that way for muslims in the USA and England? As on my myspace header, I like the idea of "a multicultural WORLD".

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 12:08 PM

Meaning tidy little departments of seperate culture which don't mix. Oh, you can open and admire each, as long as you put them back just as soon as you are done, don't stay too long and NEVER mix them.

Are you not going to answer me?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 02:36 PM

"Those USSR examples are more to do with (lack of) freedom of speech/political matters, rather than questioning/supporting the multicultural state, Don and Volgadon. In muslim nations, BOTH the law of the land and the Koran say a man can take up to four wives...should it be that way for muslims in the USA and England?"

####

WAV, you have the cart before the horse.

The lack of freedom in the USSR and other totalitarian states comes as a result of the state not allowing the populace to question or criticize it. Anything that doesn't conform to the arbitrary ideas of the state's dictatorial leaders, including their concepts of cultural imperatives, they suppress. And it is this that is the cause of lack of freedom (freedom of speech, freedom of dissent, etc.), not the other way around.

As to the matter of polygamy, the Koran says the following:

Marry such women as seem good to you, two, or three, or four. But if you fear that you will not do justice, then marry only one (4:3).

And a commentary by a Muslim scholar goes on to say:

Thus the Koran appears to clearly sanction polygamy, up to four wives. However, it also states that the man must deal justly, both materially and emotionally, with all four. A separate Koranic verse states this is humanly impossible: "And you cannot do justice between wives, even though you wish it." (4:129)

Tunisia recently banned polygamy on these grounds. Turkey, under Kemal Ataturk, banned polygamy decades ago. So the "four wives" cultural imperative is not an imperative at all.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 03:13 PM

And, in certain cases, you can have more, like Muhammad or Muslim rulers.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 05:42 PM

"WAV, you have the cart before the horse."

Not again?!!! Good lord, this seems to be happening all the time in our society. People are constantly putting the cart before the horse. I put it down to the overuse of automobiles, the underuse of horses (and carts) these days, and the fact that the horse and cart does not normally come with a simple illutrated instruction manual that even a total idiot can understand.

step 1: place horse directly in front of cart
step 2: fasten harness to horse
step 3: mount cart, facing forward
step 4: grasp reins firmly in left hand and take whip in right hand
step 5: snap whip and yell "Hiyo, Sugarfoot!" (substitute your horse's name here in place of "Sugarfoot")
step 6: hang on! You have now successfully launched your horse and cart. Good luck.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 06:28 AM

(As suggested in poem #146, e.g., I don't like horses being used in such ways, LH, and, thus, am pleased that the horses-and-carts tradition in England has largely died out - love seeing heavy-horses run wild in a field, mind.)

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.

Poem 36 of 230: WALKABOUT MEXICO

In late December,
    1996,
I can remember
    Being in a fix -
For time and pesos -
    And, thus, unable
To see Mexico's
    Sights commendable.

So, in Tijuana,
    I enjoyed the show
At a miniature
    Rep. of Mexico.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 07:07 AM

I don't like horses being used in such ways, LH, and, thus, am pleased that the horses-and-carts tradition in England has largely died out

And with it goes so much of the traditional & folkloric life, the ecology of the countryside, and the continuance of culture & craftsmanship, which defined the whole nature of the England we know & love today. "During a single 10-year period (1984-1993), more than one-third of all hedgerows in the United Kingdom were lost -- a whopping 121,875 miles of destruction..." And of course now they've banned hunting the rest of it will no doubt go down the pan too...

Oh - that Poor Old Horse Song (Owld Grye) is up on the new Venereum Arvum myspace page - see Here - which was collected at the Appleby Horse Fair. Do stop by and have a listen...

Meanwhile, I'm off the start a new thread about horse songs in the English-speaking tradition...

Saddle your horses; your saddles prepare; we'll away to some cover to seek for a hare!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 12:58 PM

It used to be "I Ride an Old Paint," but now I ride a 1999 Toyota Corolla.

But that doesn't scan nearly as well.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 02:22 PM

Good to hear you and yours, again, IB. Generally, I do support traditions, of course, but I'm happy tractors have taken over from horse-power; and, as for horse racing, I'm with Cromwell - here's that poem/sonnet...

Poem 146 of 230   HORSES FOR COURSES?

To some, in income-anticipation,
    Horse-balking at gates is a small debase;
To me, it seems a memory/fear case
    Over the coming whip-castigation.
To some, the winning jockey's elation
    Is the highlight of an ended horserace;
To me, the horse's bulged veins and scared face
    Undermine the winners' celebration.
I can't condone a punter's desire
    To gamble rather than earn a living,
    But can acknowledge a jockey's courage;
I can't see and think as a raced sire,
    Nor feel the scrapes hedges are giving,
    But find horses choiceless in their bondage.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 04:20 PM

So you only want Eng culture you aprove of?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 04:44 PM

I was always under the impression that horse racing, steeplechase, etc, was an old English tradition; an inntegral part of English culture.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 03:37 AM

That's true, Don, although Cromwell stopped suchlike for a while; but, yes Volgadon, although I'm a tradie, I don't support every single tradition in England or other nations of the world.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:47 AM

I have it on good authority that Wavygravy once moved to the country but found himself with a neighbor who was an Englishman and plowed with a horse. On the other side was a Pakistani who used a tractor. Wav didn't know whether to shit or wipe........whether to evacuate his bladder or wind his watch. In the end he found himself sitting in a pile of shit, pissing on himself, and wondering what time it was.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:51 AM

Call him a racist if you will, but this thread is proving that Walkabout is a very calm and tolerant man.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 09:14 AM

I think he's having a good time like some of us are as well.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 10:03 AM

Catspaw - get back to your kittie litter and wash your mouth out with some soap, please.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 10:12 AM

LOL

Catspaw and the Clumping Kitty Litter!

A novel of profanity!

LOL!!!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 05:58 PM

Do YOU use soap Wavydude? Are you sure its English in origin? What a friggin' catsasstrophe for you!!!!! Better check.

Katlaughing has been cleaning up the litter for me for years except when I'm cleaning up litter for her as you know JtS.....But I must argue here! There's certainly nothing novel in profanity(:<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 04:41 AM

Re: Sparing Spaw's spawnings
Perhaps the mods have been enjoying the Olympics - they didn't bother "cleaning up"/deleting your droppings/posts this time, Spaw.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 05:27 AM

WAV - the real filth here is your vile racist opinions; no amount of soap & water can ever wash the blood off those ideas.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:36 AM

That's false and defamatory, IB - in person and on the web, you have only known me to question THE ACT OF IMMIGRATION ITESELF, and to keep pushing for English culture in England: quite different from criticizing and particular race or culture. I think you once mentioned trying some college/uni formal study - I suggest you try again, and reconsider making such ill-informed remarks.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 09:34 AM

Oh, come on, Insane Beard. You look forward to him saying more things that outrage and offend you. Just admit it. ;-) You log in every day just hoping he'll give you another opportunity to comment on how wrongheaded and terrible he is. (And you're not alone in that...)

You need him like Bush needs Osama (or the rumour of Osama, at any rate).

As for Catspaw, the poor bastard can't even get off anymore without his daily WAV fix, but he's just too proud to admit it. (hee! hee!)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 09:54 AM

Ah Hawkster, I admit it! Wavy gets his jollies acting indignant over facts and I think the Insane one enjoys pointing out the flaws in the "logic".................and YOU get off coming along and pointing it all out......LOL......We be a sick bunch Man....hahahahaha.............

I made a crack somewhere about this but I want to thank Wavy for the laugh on this one! I was researching his silly usage of "English Flute" (a term almost never used since before 1900) instead of Recorder.................and I found THIS hilarious video. Only Walky would give us the benefit of his recorder technique in a SILENT MOVIE!!! And btw, what's with all the mouth malling?

Seriously Wav, I want to thank you for one of the best laughs I've had lately. Seriously! Thanks!!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:14 AM

That's it in a nutshell, Spaw. ;-D Boy, talk about having too much time on one's hands, eh? Who'd have guessed when we were young, hungry, and roaming the world in search of love and enlightenment that it would come down to this! Wasting our days with idle inanities on an Internet forum. Oh well, I guess it beats workin' for George Bush, anyway.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:17 AM

Firstly, Spaw: my inexpensive digital camera does not allow audio recording; and, secondly, as I said in the About me section, folks can, if they wish, give this video a viewing while they listen to my tracks, above it.
And, yes, I do move the recorder/English flute around in my mouth quite a bit - as I at least try for a good timbre, and to match recorder and voice (play like I sing/sing like I play).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:24 AM

No need to explain it Wavy! Like I said, thanks for the chuckle!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:31 AM

You know, Spaw, I fear that we may end up as depraved and generally useless as that jerk, Cheech Wizard before we're done. What an awful fate.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:36 AM

I live for the day when "Da' Hat" shall adorn my melon. I'm gonna' go straight for the Orphan Girl and tell her I be god......but unlike Cheech, I will do a trick for her.....heheheheheheheheehehe................

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:17 AM

That's false and defamatory, IB

Everything you say comes down to your twisted obsessions with culture & ethnicity; every warped piece of WAV logic is based on the same irrational sentiments concerning cultural purity. So tell me, how is that not racist?

If can't live & be happy with the cultural & ethnic realities of life in Great Britain in 2008 without scapegoating those same realities for society's ills - then what else are but a racist?

It's you who needs an education, WAV - you need to get yourself back to fucking kindergarten and relearn the basics of human decency; the basics of right and wrong that stand as self-evident truths when dealing with human realities rather than the twisted fantasy you persist in so relentlessly promoting.

False and defamatory? You defame yourself, WAV, not only in believing such bullshit - which is your right & priviledge - but in publishing and promoting it at every available oppotunity. These ideas are evil, and the sooner you realise that the better.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gene Burton
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:30 AM

Is it actually possible for a person to defame themself?