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BS: Sacrifice to Moloch?
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 02 Feb 03 - 11:39 PM Peg... Bush and Ashcroft killed separation of chuch and state with faith-based initiatives. 501C3...isn't that the clause that hands out federal money to churches if they meet certain federal criteria? Churches are now tied to the government if they take the money, and most of them are taking it. A shrewd plan for the takeover of religion by the government. Lurker... That 'turn the other cheek' thing...the fire-breathing Christians who encircle me say that only applies to your 'brethren'. You only turn the other cheek to like-thinking believers...give them a pass when the spirit of Jesus has momentarily abandoned them. They say you HAVE to think that way, otherwise your ministry would not survive. Jesus meant for his message to be spread, so it wouldn't make any sense to passively turn your cheek until all memory of you and your religion is relegated to the dustbin of history. No, the folks around here think you should pray with a Bible in one hand and a gun in the other, and woe unto any non-brethren who smites your cheek. This is David Koresh country...Davidians and all that. They were a mite extreme, but their neighbors aren't far behind them. And although I'm not a Christian myself, I feel a LOT safer being surrounded by these 'gun nuts' and 'right wing wackos'. If it came to a ground-assault, the U.N. forces would have to fight their way through a lot of irate and heavily-armed believers before they got to me, and I'd end up fighting right there beside them because we DO share a common belief in the Constitution. Anyway, there ARE alternative ways of interpretting that 'turn the other cheek' maxim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Amos Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:24 AM 501 (c) 3 is a section of the Federal Tax Code regarding non-profit organizations. I don't think it has anyhting to do with qualifying for handouts. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:36 AM Well, I spoke prematurely. I haven't researched it, but I know a BUNCH of churches around here are railing against 501 (c) 3 and faith-based initiatives as governmental interference. I'll put that on my list of things to study. You're right...I have heard it mentioned in the tax code context. But the last lecture I received on it had to do with the Feds now being able to force churches who take federal money to hire employees of other faiths. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:19 AM I don't think the expression "turn the other cheek" was necessarily intended by Jesus to have been taken literally. The way I have heard it explained by wiser souls than myself is: You turn the other cheek in this fashion...by sending out the opposite thought-form. That is...if a person is sending you hate, you don't react with hate in return, you react with love. If a person is sending greed, you don't buy into that psychology, you buy into generosity. If a person is into discouragement, you don't buy into that either...you encourage. This does not necessarily mean that you fail to defend yourself when someone physically attacks you. Not in the least. It means you meet unhealthy psychology with healthy psychology. Most of the things Jesus said contained deeper levels of meaning than the bare literal interpretation, in my opinion. This is also the case in virtually all holy books and sacred texts in all of the major religions. Many religious passages advise people to "pray constantly". That's not a literal statement either, but it means to maintain a constantly constructive frame of mind in every way possible...which again, is to think in a healthy fashion. It was much easier for me to do that in Trinidad than it is here. Much easier. It's damned hard to do it here. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:57 AM Wow Peg, me thinks thou dost protest too much! As to feeling 'superior' to you or anyone else, sorry I don't buy it. Just because I have different opinions, that doesn't make them superior or inferior. Just different - and apt to ruffle some feathers I guess. Sorry. As to being 'wishy-washy', although I've studied many traditions there's just none big enough to hold me it seems. Every tradition has it's 'little box' of limited beliefs members are expected to accept and live by, and I tend to feel claustrophobic. And all religions tend to be somewhat intolerant toward their neighbours, some worse than others. I can't stand that either. That's why I took exception to your slamming your President for using a quote from Isaiah, even though I've no use for GWBush. And I have found that disgruntled 'ex-Christian' types tend to have the most intolerant, angry and hate-filled attitudes toward any religious group, particularly Christian groups. I didn't intend it as a personal slight, just an general observation - but hey, if the shoe fits, wear it my dear! Those statistics are from your government's 2002 census, from Bill Moyer's website, someone whose opinions I've always respected since I encountered them studying Joseph Campbell's exceptional work. If I didn't think they were credible, I wouldn't have bothered posting them. Believe them or not, as you choose. They do indicate without a doubt that your President leads a VERY 'Christian' nation (even though Jesus Himself would probably be appalled at the association). And a nation who wants him to be 'strongly religious', yet feels 'very uncomfortable' if he expresses that religiousity. No wonder the guy can't get anything right - you people just don't know WHAT you want it seems. And regarding the 'seperation of Church and State', it looks very nice on paper. It's a great way to delude and distract your best thinkers too. But it's just not reality. Check out your money, your oath of allegiance. "IN GOD WE TRUST". Plain and simple. Masonic emblems all over your money! Wake up and smell the coffee - or not. Really doesn't matter too much in the long run I guess. We all pay the piper. Peace - daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 03 Feb 03 - 09:16 AM PS - "we all pay the piper" - I guess that's acceptable as long as the piper isn't a 40-ft high stone owl! ;-) daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Peg Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:03 AM daylia: I don't see much point in debating this with you any further. You are lumping all Americans into the same category (as in "you people don't know what you want"--this smacks of bigotry to me) and seem to think I personally have some control over the design of our paper currency...If I used your logic (if it can be called that) I'd be making some assumptions about the LOONS that appear on Canadian coins... The shoe doesn't fit. Your own intolerance and ignorance is showing much more colorfully than mine. The fact that you can't even make sense of the indiscrepancy over the polling information (calling Dubya "confused" when actually it is the poll data that is obviously flawed) and are blaming it on the American populace not knowing what "we" want (as if we all want the same thing??) tells me you haven't put a whole lot of thought into these condescending "opinions" of yours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:18 AM Here's a list of American statesmen who were/are Freemasons. (BTW I've seen the Bushes on similiar lists recently but I didn't bookmark the pages...) "What U.S. Presidents have been Freemasons? George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, Warren G. Harding, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson, Gerald Ford "Harry S. Truman was also Grand Master of his home state, Missouri. Lyndon Johnson was an Entered Apprentice but never progressed beyond that degree. Ronald Reagan is not a craft Mason. He was made an honorary 33rd degree Mason by the Southern Jurisdiction of the AASR and an honorary member of the Imperial Council of the Shrine .... Bill Clinton is not a Mason, though he was involved in DeMolay for a time. Many other leaders in government have been Masons. 'They have included fourteen Presidents and eighteen Vice Presidents of the United States; a majority of the Justices of the United States Supreme Court, of the Governors of States, of the members of the Senate, and a large percentage of the Congressmen. Five Chief Justices of the United States were Masons and two were Grand Masons. The five were Oliver Ellsworth, John Marshall, William Howard Taft, Frederick M. Vinson, and Earl Warren (also Grand Master of Masons in California.' --- Henry C. Clausen --(Source: "History of Freemasonry)." And here's some information about the Masonic (occult?) symbols on American currency. I'm presenting this ONLY as food for thought, not as the bonafide truth by any means. But I do find it very intriguing, even though I have no direct experience with them and therefore cannot have complete trust in these sources. My hunch? That it's correct! ( Masonic design and influence is all over Canadian history as well.) And I HAVE learned to trust my hunches! Of course, that doesn't mean anyone else should - you don't know me at all! Happy browsing anyway to all who care to ... daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:31 AM Sorry I continue to ruffle your feathers, Peg. May your next President be an atheist (not too likely!). And may your illusions not hurt you too badly when they collapse. BTW I kinda like the loons on Canadian 'loonies' - they are beautiful, hardy and amazing birds indeed. Now if the queen's profile could just disappear ... or maybe the whole idea of 'money' in the first place ... fat chance of that! He he he! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Peg Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:38 PM what "illusions" do I hold exactly, daylia? How is it you are so wise about others' beliefs when you aren't even clear on what your own are? The Masonic Order, as it practices today, is no longer affiliated with the occult in any way. Not a "hunch" but fact. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:47 PM Illusion #1 - "The Masonic Order, as it practices today, is no longer affiliated with the occult in any way. Not a "hunch" but fact." Please check out the information at the site I posted above, and many of the others you will find if you do a search on "Freemasonry". I do know that your statement is incorrect, based on my own experiences with the Order. Illusion #2 - "How is it you are so wise about others' beliefs when you aren't even clear on what your own are? It's always unwise to presume, (and I can be just as foolish as anyone else in this regard!) I also demonstrated intolerance of the intolerance between religious groups in my postings.. AARRGGGHHHH! But I will say here that I don't bother with 'beliefs' much. I prefer truth. Illusion #3 - That's why we have a clear separation of church and state. When 'religious' and 'occult' words and symbols disappear from your Constitution, Oath of Allegience, currency etc. then perhaps we will truly know the seperation of church and state. (I'm not holding my breath). Illusion #4 - "(calling Dubya "confused" when actually it is the poll data that is obviously flawed)." I did not call 'Dubya' confused. I meant that it was confusing to ME (I don't speak for 'Dubya') that 50% of Americans claim to be 'extremely uncomfortable' with their Presidential candidates expressing their religiousity, while 70% of Americans claim to want a 'strongly religious' President. I found myself wondering what IS it that Americans DO want? Do they even know? Pardon my on-line wondering! Seems to me that means 20% of Americans want a 'strongly religious President' who does not make that aspect of himself public knowledge during his campaign. How then would anyone know if he/she (boy THAT would be nice!) was religious? Hmmmm? These statistics are not from a "poll" either, but from the US census of 2002. I always thought that a census is more objective and reliable than a 'poll', which is why I considered the statistics credible at all. Believe what you will - that's what your gov't is telling you - and the rest of the world - about yourselves. You did not take the time to check out the link I posted perhaps? Anyway I meant no offence to you or anyone else Peg. I don't know you at all, so I could only offer what I consider to be 'illusions' from your postings here. And I do apologize for assuming you were of the disgruntled ex-Christian type. It was your words "Bush is a fundamentalist Christian who..." and "I was mortally offended when he pulled the religion card today while speaking about those who died on the Columbia space shuttle. How fucking tasteless." that led me to that assumption. Oh yes, and "I am not threatened one whit by Christianity." followed a few lines down by "The effort to create a pervasive atmosphere of Christian beliefs and the so-called "family values" associated with them makes people such as myself (not to mention other non-Christians) vulnerable to persecution ..." Sounded 'disgruntled' to me. Please pardon my presumption. And again, how can there not be a 'pervasive atmosphere of Christian beliefs' in a country where 82% of the population claims those very beliefs, according to your own nation-wide (I presume) census?? Hmmm?? daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Peg Date: 03 Feb 03 - 06:47 PM Illusion #1 - "The Masonic Order, as it practices today, is no longer affiliated with the occult in any way. Not a "hunch" but fact." Please check out the information at the site I posted above, and many of the others you will find if you do a search on "Freemasonry". I do know that your statement is incorrect, based on my own experiences with the Order. --well, a member of my coven is also now the leader of the local Masonic order and try though he might he will never turn it into a magical order. It's simply not what they do anymore. I don't know what you mean when you seem to be saying they ARE an occult order. In my experience they left that behind decades ago. Feel free to offer some explanation. Illusion #2 - "How is it you are so wise about others' beliefs when you aren't even clear on what your own are? It's always unwise to presume, (and I can be just as foolish as anyone else in this regard!) I also demonstrated intolerance of the intolerance between religious groups in my postings.. AARRGGGHHHH! But I will say here that I don't bother with 'beliefs' much. I prefer truth. --I wouldn't call that an illusion; merely an opinion. Most people who hold "beliefs" consider them truth. So now you're just playing semantics (what's new, though). Illusion #3 - That's why we have a clear separation of church and state. When 'religious' and 'occult' words and symbols disappear from your Constitution, Oath of Allegience, currency etc. then perhaps we will truly know the seperation of church and state. (I'm not holding my breath). --first off could you try to at least spell separation correctly? And I have never heard it referred to as an OATH of allegiance. We always called it the PLEDGE of allegiance in school, and most school children know it as that memorized bit of dreck you say in front of the flag every morning. Kids who object to the "under God" part are now legally allowed not to take part...chalk one up for the Constitution! What do occult symbols on our currency have to do with separation of church and state? I do not equate the occult with the Christian church. Most people do not even equate the occult or its symbology with religion in any way. So I don't get what you're on about here. Illusion #4 - "(calling Dubya "confused" when actually it is the poll data that is obviously flawed)." I did not call 'Dubya' confused. --you did say "no wonder the guy can't get anything right"--so perhaps I mispoke. The parallel is still the same: calling Dubya stupid based on the fact that this polls numbers donlt add up is ignoring the fact that the POLL is flawed. I meant that it was confusing to ME (I don't speak for 'Dubya') that 50% of Americans claim to be 'extremely uncomfortable' with their Presidential candidates expressing their religiousity, while 70% of Americans claim to want a 'strongly religious' President. I found myself wondering what IS it that Americans DO want? Do they even know? Pardon my on-line wondering! --this isn't wondering, it's over-generalizing to an extreme. We are an enormous and diverse nation; why would anyone assume that all Americans want the same thing? This makes no sense. Seems to me that means 20% of Americans want a 'strongly religious President' who does not make that aspect of himself public knowledge during his campaign. How then would anyone know if he/she (boy THAT would be nice!) was religious? Hmmmm? --you have proved my point. The poll itself is nonsensical. Yet YOU were the one who offered it as proof of something or other. You need to put some thought into this stuff. These statistics are not from a "poll" either, but from the US census of 2002. I always thought that a census is more objective and reliable than a 'poll', which is why I considered the statistics credible at all. Believe what you will - that's what your gov't is telling you - and the rest of the world - about yourselves. --last time I checked the U.S. Census Bureau made all sorts of mistakes. They are in fact considered one of the most incompetent of our government bureaus. Why should a poll they came up with be any different? You did not take the time to check out the link I posted perhaps? --I don't need to. I have already stated why I think those statistics from that poll don't merit scrutiny. Anyway I meant no offence to you or anyone else Peg. --yes, clearly you did. But I don't care either way. I don't know you at all, so I could only offer what I consider to be 'illusions' from your postings here. And I do apologize for assuming you were of the disgruntled ex-Christian type. It was your words "Bush is a fundamentalist Christian who..." and "I was mortally offended when he pulled the religion card today while speaking about those who died on the Columbia space shuttle. How fucking tasteless." that led me to that assumption. --yeah, well, all I knowof you is from your postings. I find them passive-aggressive and lacking in forethought. Oh yes, and "I am not threatened one whit by Christianity." followed a few lines down by "The effort to create a pervasive atmosphere of Christian beliefs and the so-called "family values" associated with them makes people such as myself (not to mention other non-Christians) vulnerable to persecution ..." Sounded 'disgruntled' to me. Please pardon my presumption. --if you actually were able to comprehend what I wrote, you'd understand that there is no contradiction there and no disgruntlement. It's the atmosphere created by government, not Christians themselves, that creates the opportunities for persecution... And again, how can there not be a 'pervasive atmosphere of Christian beliefs' in a country where 82% of the population claims those very beliefs, according to your own nation-wide (I presume) census?? Hmmm?? --as I said (here we go a THIRD time) I find that poll's figures to be faulty and inaccurate. I live here. Maybe I have a better sense of how things are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Nemesis Date: 03 Feb 03 - 07:23 PM Well, Guest, certainly succeeded in getting a response out of people .. I scrolled to the bottom of the Molloch page and it's a band's website, isn't it? Perhaps, if they had just have called themselves Bollocks, we'd have cottoned on quicker BTW: I'm not spending anymore time on this thread .. 15 minutes is plenty out of a lifetime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 03 Feb 03 - 08:26 PM Peg there's a big difference between beliefs and truth, but I'm sure you're aware of that already. And I would explain to you how I know that the Order of Freemasons continue to practice the occult sciences they were founded on, but if you can't 'believe' even the results of your government's census why should you 'believe' anything I have to say? I'm obviously wasting my time. Hille's right - 15 minutes is enough! I'm sure your Christian neighbours will continue to show you exactly the same tolerance and respect that you show them - multiplied many times over. (Those are the 'laws of karma' - again as I'm sure you already know.) Best wishes to you and your coven. daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST,Forum Lurker Date: 03 Feb 03 - 10:47 PM The quibbling about whether or not Freemasons are occult or not fails to take one pretty important factor into account: The Freemasons are divided into a large number of Rites and a vast array of lodges. Some are undoubtedly true to the occult roots of Masonry, some to the political, some to both and some to neither. As to the poll, what fraction called themselves atheists? If that number is small or absent, that shows the problem in the census. Most people are neither practicing nor strongly believing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Peg Date: 04 Feb 03 - 09:35 AM Daylia; I don't "believe" the poll results of "my own government" because THE POLL IS FLAWED. How bull-headed must you be about this? Why do you keep ignoring the fact that this poll is ONE source of information that may well be inaccurate? You say you are interested in "truth." You can't get "truth" from looking at only one source, and a clearly-flawed one at that. Your refusal to explain your "knowledge" of the Masons because you think I won't "believe" you because I know a faulty poll when I see one is kind of defeatist isn't it? And convenient. I am quite tolerant of open-minded, compassionate Christians. Your implication that I will "get what's coming to me" karmically is based on your belief that I am intolerant of all Christians. I'm not, and I already said that once. Your tendency to paint all things in shades of black and white is not going to get you very far. You have also said more than once you're done posting to this thread but you keep lobbing those parting shots. Lurker; I'd agree that the Masons do have many different permutations and it is possible some of them maintain more of the original order's occult rites than others. But the vast majority of them are not too far removed from the Elks or the Moose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST,Forum Lurker Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:28 AM Exactly how many lodges have you been part of, that you can make that claim? And have you actually looked at the poll, or are you just assuming that it's flawed because the U.S. government made it? Honestly, just look at the facts instead of spouting off random generalizations and ad hominem attacks, both of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:47 AM The influences of the Freemasons ARE all around us. Washington DC was built on a pentagram design, and construction within the district is tightly controlled. Some say it was built to receive Lucifer or Satan or Moloch or whoever upon Judgement Day or Super Bowl Sunday or something like that. And numerology is a big deal in the numbering of the streets and burial sites in the town. We have the 'all-seeing eye' on the back of our dollar bill. The 'all seeing eye' is part of the new DARPA Pentagon computer database...'all information on every American citizen gathered together in one place...to fight terrorism' The CBS television logo is an eye The NBC television logo is a peacock...bird with eyes on the ends of it's feathers Daley Plaza...in Dallas, where Kennedy was shot, is in the shape of a pyramid with no capstone...like the one on the back of the dollar. And where the capstone should be is the area under the overpass where the fatal shot almost certainly came from. The place where Dan Rather was reporting from. Some say he was placed there as an 'irrefutible witness' in case anyone should hear or see the shooter. If that happened, a trained, professional observer...a reporter...could swear HE never heard or saw anything. And subsequently, after the shooting, Rather rises to be the voice behind the CBS 'eye'. I think it was Jim Lehrer in the Texas School Book Depository that day, too...the place where Oswald was supposed to have shot from. Again, a reporter who could have sworn he saw certain things, if called upon to do so. So the Masons and Illuminati have a BIG symbolic, if not practical, impact on American life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 12:26 PM Forum lurker, I'd be VERY interested in checking out some credible sources of information about Freemasonry. If you have any, please post them! It's very hard to find one that doesn't just reek of paranoia and religious intolerance. The example I posted above was the best I could find yesterday, and it still looked a little 'iffy'. Thanks! And GUEST, if you're who I think you are, for once I agree with you! (about the Masons, anyway). HURRAH!! Peg would you please PM me with your comments in the future? Thanks - daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 04 Feb 03 - 12:49 PM Ukranian Masons Some parts of the world believe the Masons to be dangerous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 01:09 PM Thanks, GUEST! What a coincidence that my experiences with the Order involved a Ukranian! And those experiences were both highly dangerous and terrifying indeed. If I'd have known what was in store for me, as a woman associated with such an Order (or person) I'd have steered WAY clear. As it was, I'm just grateful to still be around. I'm still trying to understand those experiences, but only in my braver moments! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: BuckMulligan Date: 04 Feb 03 - 01:43 PM Some parts of the world believe in vampires & werewolves, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 03:02 PM Americans make lots of money on werewolves and vampires too! Perhaps it's the same with the Masons. They've got a few centuries of experience in such matters ... (designing and controlling money I mean). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: BuckMulligan Date: 04 Feb 03 - 03:41 PM how many Masons do you suppose have much experience designing & controlling money? I mean, really? They're not a small, select group you know. THere are lots & lots of them, all over the place, and most of them are electricians and plumbers and insurance salesmen, etc. Even up at the elevated degrees. My grandfather was a 32nd degree mason and he was a frickin' millwright. americans haven't made a dime out of vampires and werewolves; many have made money out of popular delight in scary stuff though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:18 PM Check out the links above Buck, if you're interested. My grandfather belonged to a Lodge in Winnipeg, and he was just a 'regular guy' too. A decorated veteran of WW1, and a linotype operator for the Winnipeg Press. Like Forum Lurker said, there are many different Rites and Orders and Lodges within Freemasonry, with different agendas and practices. Apparently, not all are into the occult or political/economic manipulation, but some certainly are. And certainly the group I found myself caught up with were! (Not the same one as my grandfather's!) If they are not into designing and controlling money, then why are their symbols and slogans still plastered all over American currency and the American constitution, for just one example? That evidence is right in your wallet every day of your life! And why all the bally-hoo about 300 Masons in the highest positions of gov't and business in the Ukraine, according to 'The Pravda' at GUEST's link? There's likely to be at least SOME fire behind all that smoke! Anyway, I really don't know all the facts, and I am interested in finding credible information about it. daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:30 PM Sorry Buck, I was assuming you are an American. If you're not, then 'that evidence' is certainly NOT in your wallet every day of your life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: BuckMulligan Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:37 PM First, that Pravda link did not unequivocally claim that the "Order of St. Stanislaus" or whatever it was is in fact a Masonic organization. Indeed, it went so far as to say "even if it isn't its charter is so much like the masons...." Second, the article didn't claim these guys were doing anything wrong; only that a whole buncha folks were getting their knickers knotted about the fact that they belonged to a Masonic-like organization. Third, I'm well aware of the multiplicity of rites & chapters and so on of Freemasonry. The Shriners, for example, ooh, what a badass bunch they are, providing free medical care to kids. Fourth, the Masons have been getting flak for about 300 years, partly as a result of their claimed (sometimes by them, sometimes by others) association with the Knights Templar, (q.v.) You can search the web and find all KINDS of weird-ass stuff about the Masons - do a google on "baphomet" and you'll end up crawling under the bed. The point is, none of this bullshit has ever been backed up; books have been written, sure, but books have been written about other "bad" groups too (see "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion") and there are folks like you who are willing to lend it credulity simply because you think there must be SOMETHING to it or else why are all these peopl making so much noise about it? The Masons are a harmless, service oriented fraternal order, unaffiliated with any conspiracies to rule the world, believe me. I'd be delighted to see any "credible" (ooh, there's that nasty word again), empirical evidence to the contrary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 05:07 PM Buck check out the site I posted above about the symbols and slogans on your money (if you're really interested, and not just trying to argue). I think it's pretty credible, and I've come across that information in many volumes/sites about ancient occult symbols and geometry. I'll try to find the 'mathematics' site I originally found the information on last fall, and post it here if anyone's interested. It was the most 'neutral' information I'd found to date. If it weren't for direct personal experience with the occult practices of ONE (and only one) of these Orders, I wouldn't waste my time trying to sort out any of the allegations - in fact I wouldn't have the slightest interest in Freemasonry at all. But it happened. Hence my interest. And believe me, it had nothing to do with the Shriners! And I'm not trying to 'lend credibility' to anything! I'm just looking for the truth. So I hafta start somewhere! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:08 PM I heard the NASA memorial today was pretty occult, as far as numerology and such. I can't watch that garbage...knowing the terrorists are up there on stage setting themselves up as our saviors. But I heard one speaker talked about the astronauts being 'sacrificed', and GW or one of them talked about there being only 'one religion'. GW ran for Prez as a 'communitarian', by the way, which in old dictionaries is the definition of communist. And Gorbachev said in '87 the Soviet Union would only APPEAR to disband. And the President of China calls the Fortune 500 'the supreme flower of communism'. Man...this religo/economic consolidation and cleansing coming up is gonna be a bitch. I mean, when the 'conservative Christian' candidate TELLS the Christians who voted for him that he's a communist, that doesn't speak well for America's ability to think its way out of bad situations. Interesting thing: shuttle blew up 9:00AM eastern WTC 9:00AM eastern Murrah bldg. in OK city 9:00AM eastern Don't some claim the 666 mark of the beast stuff has been skewed over the years...that it should be 999? And the numbers 1, 2, 3 show up a lot too in Illuminati occultism, don't they? Don't the Europeans date-stamp with the day first, month second? Then the shuttle was blown up on 01-02-03. God I hate the people doing this stuff, whichever demons they worship. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:28 PM GUEST, 'hate' is not a wise choice if you value your life and health. At the risk of boring you with something you've heard before, I've always liked this saying - "Hate does more damage to the vessel in which it's stored than the object upon which it's poured". Whatever is going on, the tyrants and murderers always fail in the end. Takes time, and sometimes it looks hopeless, but history shows that they do all eventually reap what they sow. As everyone does. That's why I try to avoid hating anyone, no matter how 'hateable' they are! The answers will come when the time is right. As long as people keep seeking them. And choose to act upon them. I hope!! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: BuckMulligan Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:31 PM daylia - don't get me wrong, I never said there weren't Masonic connections to things like the symbology, etc. It is indeed true that a great many of the "Founding Fathers" were Freemasons, as have been many, many other folks in politics, here and abroad. My point is simply, "so what?" Their membership in a fraternal organization doesn't prove - or even imply - anything. If you could come up with the name of this "order" you had a bad experience with, it might help. The Masons don't use the word much, BTW. They have "Rites" and Chapters, etc. The "Order" terminology is very much a carryover of the medieval/Crusader/Church days, when unemployed knights (after the Crusades pooped out and there was no more loot to be had) formed "Orders" and pretended they were like Arthur's knights (they weren't, not even close; even Malory's depiction of Arthur's "knights" wasn't close to any probable reality). They got rich, the church got mad and decided it needed their money so trumped up all sorts of charges of Satanism and demonism (they musta had a GUEST), and tried them and confiscated their goods. The last Grand Master of the Knights Templar was burned in the 14th century I think. Modern Masons have been connected with these guys (again by the RCC) in order to justify banning the organizations as diluting loyalty to church & pope. I'm doubtful that the "order" you had a run-in with was affiliated with the AF&AM. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:41 PM Nah...some things MUST be hated. Burning babies must be hated. Shedding false tears over 7 astronauts while you plot to kill hundreds of thousands with nuclear weapons must be hated. Can't love that stuff and you can't be neutral on it. Hate has it's place but needs to be used carefully. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 08:53 PM Well I certainly don't 'love' stuff like that, and I ain't 'neutral' on it either. But I can work to end it without making myself sick with hate. I do know what that's like! Maybe it's different with you though. Thoughts and emotions are very much tied to biology, and we're all different that way I guess. daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Peg Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:00 PM Daylia; what comments am I supposed to PM to you? I am not interested in a private conversation with you, believe me. Are you saying you don't want me to post to this thread any more? Well, that is not your decision to make. If you're going to dish it out you're going to have to learn to take it, I'm afraid. This thread, BTW, is starting to sound like one of those satanic ritual abuse support groups... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:04 PM Now THAT'S an idea. I post on various forums....do you know of a satanic ritual abuse support group online? Really. I'd like to show them some info. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: *daylia* Date: 04 Feb 03 - 11:37 PM Maybe it's Satan himself who needs the 'ritual abuse support group'! Who knows, with the Bohemians and the Freemasons and the Dubya's et al never givin him a moment's peace ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Amos Date: 04 Feb 03 - 11:54 PM Geeze, what gives ???-- I mean, it isn't even October and we've got the Dance of the Inner Bitches screaming through the aether like Walpurgisnacht! Take care ya don't go shaking down any of that firmament, now, ladies. Maybe some hot tea on the break would help? Hot water bottle? Massage? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 27 May 03 - 01:06 PM ...Now, the truth be told, I've been around so long that I also knew Jimmy Doolittle. (Light laughter.) I had several opportunities to visit with him. My recollection is it was out at Bohemian Grove, where he would attend periodically, and we'd pass and visit. He was always so interested. So I do thank you for this fine award which bears his distinguished name. Like the Hudson Institute, General Doolittle helped to change the world. Indeed, many of the principles that we recognize as so important in the 21st century -- speed, jointness, flexibility, transformation, precision -- were in a sense pioneered by Jimmy Doolittle.... Rumfeld's admission of Bohemian Grove attendance (These monsters are going to acclimate you to their nightmare in this manner. This is a Dept of Defense link, folks) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST,LadyJean Date: 28 May 03 - 12:09 AM I don't know if they still do it, but for many years, the University of Chicago's Blackfriars sacrificed a watermelon on Walpurgis night. The abbot or abbess would plunge a knife into the unfortunate mellon, after which, the victim would be eaten. Blackfriars is a highly subversive organization, they perform musicals. Milton Friedman used to be one of their favorite targets for satire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 28 May 03 - 12:48 AM These people sacrifice humans. Have for thousands of years. Lately, ordinary people have begun 'waking up' to the true nature of the ruling elite. This is scaring the elite, and they are having to make small confessions. Like Rumsfeld admitting to membership at Bohemian Grove. That is a HUGE admission, but it is buried in a DoD web page. The ruling elite is panicking. Resistance to tyranny is growing around the world. The Iraqis are getting a big dose of reality therapy right now, and the example is not being lost on the rest of the world. Memes Ideas are catching on...resistance is growing. This is a great time to be alive because we are going to throw these parasites off once and for all. We have total knowledge now. The people who have perverted humanity are doomed: Tip of the Iceberg For awarding re-building contracts to Halliburton with no competing bids, the Bush Administration should be shut down. Just that one action should disqualify them from positions of leadership And they STILL have to answer for Sept 11. Their fall is going to be wonderful, and the Clintons and all the other parasites will be brought down with them. So nice. These scum have just about sacrificed their last child. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Gervase Date: 28 May 03 - 12:09 PM I mean, 'care in the community' sounded like a good idea at the time, but I had no idea that it meant that truly insane people would be allowed unfettered access to the internet. Surely there's something that can be done? If there is a global conspiracy, why don't they sacrifice loons like 'Guest' above? (Probably for the same reason that aliens always abduct and anally probe some thick septic from Shitsville USA rather than landing on the Mall, I suppose) AOL has a heck of a lot to answer for... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 28 May 03 - 12:26 PM You should try to control your fear, Gervase, rather than let it control you. The internet is the Jeffersonian dream bearing fruit. The US govt is trying to become more and more secretive at the moment in history when that is becoming less and less possible. The internet allowed the world to see the massacre in Tienamen Square, and that set the cause of tyrannical globalism back a crucial ten years. Because of laptop computers beaming those pictures, Clinton could never get Most Favored Nation trade status for the communist Chinese. If he had, the US would be dead by now. But we got a breather, and the Organized Criminals overstepped on Sept 11. Make use of this window of opportunity before it closes. The people in charge practice human sacrifice. If they get total control... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: artbrooks Date: 28 May 03 - 12:42 PM Odd, somehow I remember seeing Tienamen Square on television. Seems to me that neither laptops nor good PC video were widely available in 1989. BTW DG, China has had "most favored nation" trading status since 1980, when it was extended to them by President Carter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 28 May 03 - 01:04 PM MFN was issued year by year, because of human rights abuses. Bush # 2 made it permanent. One of his first presidential acts as a 'conservative' was to grant permanent MFN status to the ChiComs. Bush is not a conservative, just as he is not a Christian. He belongs to a club that practices human sacrifice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: Gervase Date: 29 May 03 - 03:35 AM Control my fear? Dear 'Guest', it's my laughter I'm trying to control. Seriously, though, you really should seek medical attention. Bush is certainly an arsehole, but human sacrifice? Oy veh!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 11 Jul 03 - 12:54 PM BOHEMIAN GROVE... "...The President said that Mr. Kozlov would have a good time in the United States and that everybody would be ready to talk freely to him. In this connection he expressed satisfaction that Mr. Kozlov would visit Bohemian Grove in California, which is located in beautiful surroundings./10/..." US State Dept Document There was some discussion of Bohemian Grove on this thread, so I'll add this here. The linked document shows that Kruschev's right-hand man visited Bohemian Grove at the height of the Cold War. The international banking elite created communism as a foe of capitalism. You can't sell arms and foment wars without enemies, so communism was created as an enemy. Now 'terrorism' is the enemy of the day. There are no enemies but those the bankers create. And Bohemian Grove is one of the places where they calmly discuss their atrocities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: JennyO Date: 11 Jul 03 - 02:07 PM Oh no - not this old thread again! He's ba-aaaaaack........ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST,Moloch Date: 11 Jul 03 - 02:41 PM Aw, man, not this crap again! Listen, I don't deal with such people as bankers and CEOs and politicians. Not now, not ever. Got it? Now drop it! I have certain standards to maintain, after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 11 Jul 03 - 08:31 PM The Franklin Coverup If you read only one non-fiction book this year, make it this one. This former state senator from Nebraska had the goods on the Bushes and Hunter Thompson and others connected with Bohemian Grove. Actual testimony from cases, etc. Amazing. Project Monarch being used by the CIA to use kids as cocaine mules. Hunter Thompson blowing the head off one kid and making the other engage in necrophilia...at Bohemian Grove. Non-partisan, too, as Robert Byrd (D-WV) is revealed to be the chief satanist in the US govt. This is absolutely the most disturbing book I've ever read. John DeCamp evacuated 3000+ kids from Viet Nam while he was there, then he returned to the US to serve in politics. He sounds like one of the few people I'd trust my life to just on the strength of his writings...an absolutely decent human being who stumbled across the most decadent behavior imaginable...being carried out by the leaders of the US. A stunning book. Buy it, read it, pass it on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sacrifice to Moloch? From: GUEST Date: 12 Jul 03 - 11:14 AM Look at THIS! |
