Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 06:43 PM

Funny that I should be considered the one who doesn't want to "speak ill of the dead" - this seemed to be a policy, it's something I picked up as a general trend at Mudcat. I thought you (Joe) favored back in the early years, and that members in general preferred it. Because of that perception I have on rare occasions tried to sort it out, letting criticism go into other related threads and the business of posting memories, obituary links and funeral information in the obit - the thread that outsiders are most likely going to land on when they use Google to look for a recently deceased musician.

There was hell to pay the last time this came up, a lot of folks coming in from all over creation deciding the take swings and sides and seemingly had no business here except to be nasty, as far as I could tell.

You guys sort it out. It's apparently above my pay grade.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 07:25 PM

Stringsinger and Good Soldier Schweik, do yourselves a favor and follow the link to the Wikipedia article on "useful idiot" and the history behind the term. Fellow Traveller is a term that has a parallel history, as does "Communist Dupe."

And yes, Frank, I think it's quite certain that Pope Pius XII was a "useful idiot" of Mussolini, and not all the horrible things people have accused him of. Thank you for that.

These were good, intelligent, capable people. No, they weren't idiots. I think, however, that they may have been blinded by their own innocence and idealism. Their failure, perhaps, was to trust too much and to believe too much in their fellow man. They failed to be cynical, and I think we need more of that kind of failure in this world.

-Joe-

Yes, Good Soldier Schweik, you are allowed to disagree with me....and I am allowed to disagree back. Despite your protestations to the contrary, you sound both outraged and indignant, and it's getting in the way of a sensible discussion. Get over it.

And yes, Frank, pointing a finger points three fingers back. I think of myself as the same sort of idealist as Pete Seeger, Ewan MacColl, and Pius XII. You can call me a "useful idiot" at times, and it's a badge I'll wear with pride. Idealism may be unrealistic, but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 09:52 PM

I am not sure,where folks,got the idea that speaking ill of a dead public figure is taboo. Just as Frank has the right to state his opinion of Pete, one in which I mostly agree with, so garg has the right to give his opinion on the same public figure.

Dick Miles, criticizing the subject of a thread is not a personal attack. Criticizing, using ad hominem attacks is. Methinks you are splitting hairs and projecting a bit. If you read Joe's post carefully, and pay attention to the distinctions, you will understand the difference between criticism and personal attack.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 May 14 - 03:15 AM

This thread - like the Russian Revolution, seems to be getting bogged down in CULT OF PERSONALITY - another useful phrase to look up
It seems Dick 'protesteth too much' when it comes to "speaking ill of the dead" - he hasn't been backward in coming forward when it comes to giving his somewhat ill-informed opinions on MacColl in the past; nor have far too many other people.
Sure - let's talk about whether they were taken in by Stalin, or whether they were "elitist" or "arrogant", or "rude to people"..... or all the other personal (and in my experience, often highly inaccurate) things still being leveled at MacColl a quarter of a century after his demise - but not at the cost of discussion on their work, and the contribution they made to our music and our understanding of it - and what their efforts left behind.
Sometime this month, we hope (grant willing) to embark on two, hour-long radio programmes for Irish radio on the work of Ewan MacColl.
When we started gathering material together for the grant application, we realised that there is so much of it that has never been touched, so many aspects of the man's work that remains totally unexplored, that the problem was going to be in deciding what to exclude - there is far too much to use even to scratch the surface of the work he did, let alone, give a fair picture in what he covered in the field of folk song - in in the two hours we hope to have at our disposal.
This type of work should have happened while MacColl was living - as Peggy once said, "while he was still around to speak for himself" - to articulate and defend his own ideas.
Twenty-odd years after his death, it is still impossible to discuss MacColl's work without having first to scramble over the mountain of garbage that has been built - sometimes deliberately - around the man and his work.
It is this type of small-minded 'grave dancing' that has belittled the folk song movement and kept it in its adolescence - it really is time we allowed it to grow up and make its own way in the world.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 14 - 04:12 AM

It seems Dick 'protesteth too much' when it comes to "speaking ill of the dead" - he hasn't been backward in coming forward when it comes to giving his somewhat ill-informed opinions on MacColl in the past; nor have far too many other people.
I have consistently praised MacColl as a performer and song writer,all the posts can be found on this forum, I have also defended MacColls right to have a stage name, how are these opinions ill informed?

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 14 - 08:25 AM

PETE SEEGER BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER THROUGH MUSIC.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDw83Tztpjg

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 14 - 08:56 AM

Then of course there is this tripe.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 14 - 09:28 AM

MODS:

I received a message from Mr Google that the site I just linked to is 'untrustworthy' and then it blocked something. If a mod could remove that post I would very much appreciate it. Sorry.

---

I changed the link to go to the site from which Google cached the 1969 article. The problem might be with the Google cache. If the page at 'peteseeger.net' still causes problems, please say so. -Mod

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 14 - 12:17 PM

Many thanks :-)

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 May 14 - 03:30 PM

"This tripe" that # refers to, is the Pete Seeger entry in the Biographical Dictionary of the Left, by Francis X. Gannon.

When I was in the U.S. Army in Berlin, some sergeant tried to recruit me as a member of the John Birch Society. He gave me a copy of two volumes of this "Biographical Dictionary," and I still have it. It's a great reference to find out all the supposed misdeeds of my heroes. I'm sure the sergeant expect me to have disdain for all the people listed in his dictionary, but it had just the opposite effect on me.

I'll agree that it's tripe, but it's interesting tripe.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 May 14 - 08:53 PM

Here's an interesting-looking Website I came across:

http://www.rememberingpeteseeger.org/

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 May 14 - 02:08 AM

"I'll agree that it's tripe, but it's interesting tripe."
Ah - the John Birch Society - that certainly is a trip back to La-La Land.
It is indeed interesting tripe.
We still have a leaflet here in our collection advertising a concert The Singers Club was involved in to raise money for the 'Keep Pete out of Jail' campaign.
Good days!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 03:14 PM

Park named.

http://wigwameconomy.com/riverfront-park-renamed-for-pete-and-toshi/

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 03:17 PM

I got my issue of Sing Out! Magazine this week. It was a lovely tribute to Pete Seeger.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: LadyJean
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 01:10 AM

to put this in perspective, have a look at some of the movies made between 1942 and 1945, when the U.S.S.R. was our ally. My father, a veteran of that conflict, would, once in a while, speak well of "Old Joe" Stalin. Dad was a staunch Republican. I think he may have voted for Nixon more than once. (But he liked Pete Seeger's music.) Things are rarely black and white. They are usually more complicated.

And I would give a lot to be at one of those July Fourth Concerts again.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 12:21 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/seeger-fest-folk-legend-modest-revealed-article-1.1865542

Information is released about Pete's will and his estate.

"Money was not his moving force," Port said of Seeger, who was known to perform for free before labor rallies and who gave away copyrights to his most popular songs.

Seeger and his wife, Toshi, built their own log cabin in the woods in 1949. The house and its 30-acre heavily wooded lot have an official assessed value of $788,200. Toshi Seeger died in 2013.

"He made the salary of a construction worker. He was comfortable, owned his own home, drove a 2002 Subaru," Cahill-Jackson said.

Seeger also bequeathed musical instruments to his heirs — and each instrument tells a story . . .

Follow the link to read the rest.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:37 PM

New York is having a week of commemorations, wish I could get there!

Here in Sydney we're having a concert at 3pm on Sat 27th at the Friend in Hand pub at Glebe to remember him on the 6 month anniversary of his death.

sandra

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 06:04 PM

http://www.prlog.org/12349678-limited-time-discount-offer-on-critically-acclaimed-pete-seeger-biography.html

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 10:18 AM

Yes, Pete can be described as a "useful idiot", but he isn't to blame for that. Everyone in Tian'anmen Square on June 4th, 1989 is a useful idiot. Back in the 60's and 70's China, primarily everybody is a useful idiot, Mao himself included. And those who stood against them all get killed - President Liu Shao-Tchi, Defense Minister Peng Te-huai - and now we call them "useless wise men".

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 04:13 PM

Guest: Although I think I agree with you I'm not sure that I find having a debate on a post headed "Obit" is appropriate. I miss Pete's presence on the planet. As Dick Cavett said when asked to comment on the death of his colleague, David Frost, "Why is it never Cheney?"