Do you need a car to be a pro musician?

Subject: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Marion
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 12:38 AM

Hello all. I remember somewhere or other Jerry said that music career stories are essentially road stories, and somewhere or other Rick said that his car was his most important piece of musical gear, and I wonder:

Do you need a car to be a pro musician? Do you know of anyone who has made it work with buses and taxis and rentals?

Marion

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 01:02 AM

Doesn't it depend somewhat on what kind of gear you carry? A singer or a harmonica player requires different transport than does an upright bassman. :)

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 01:07 AM

Certainly, but you have limits.

Singing or playing small instruments would help.

Sticking with accoustic gigs or those where the sound system is already there would be important.

Living in an area wher you have good public transportation would appear to be important.

Street performers in big cities could be in this category.

An easy way would be to be part of a band and just catch a ride with the others.

Being a piano player in a whorehouse with a room to live in upstairs might be a good way to go too.

pax yall

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 01:23 AM

But, Blackcatter, how do you move your instruments each time the place is raided? See, s/he still needs an answer. :)

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 01:26 AM

Marion - are you a musician - or are you an idjet?

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 01:48 AM

It isn't essential, usually a girl/boyfriend with one (and a strong back to help hump gear) is all that's needed.

I knew someone who based an entire years festival bookings on which girl he would go out with, who would be gullible enough to drive him and his collection of drums and guitars to each festival.

LTS

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 02:27 AM

Ebbie - Simple. You make sure that the local sheriff is paid well for his ignorance. Even with a car, as piano isn't easy to move from bordello to bordello...

pax yall

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: SeanM
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 04:59 AM

It would also kinda depend on your goals. If you're in a band and/or hoping to get exposure beyond where you can easily and reliably reach with public transport, it's kinda essential that SOMEONE in the organization have a vehicle.

Of course, if you are just playing local venues within easy walk/public transport distance, the car's not as necessary.

M

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: GUEST,cookieless Scabby doug
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:28 AM

Vin Garbutt doesn't have a car and he manages fine (as far as I can tell). I suspect it works when
* you play venues that have PA
* have enough clout to be picked up/delivered to train/bus stations
* don't have to take every gig that's offered to make ends meet.

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: alanabit
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:52 AM

To work without a car means you are working on several assumptions. As has been previously stated, it assumes that either PA will always be provided or that you can make a living doing acoustic gigs. The other assumption is that the place where you sleep will always be within walking distance of the the place you play if there is no public transport available. I sure don't drive for fun - you have to be pretty strange to do that in Germany - but the number of gigs open to me is far fewer and the time and and hassle spent reaching them is far greater when I do not have a car. Even busking is a real drag without a car. Carrying a guitar, drum and the rest of my gear around is possible - but believe me no fun - on public transport. It is also extremely rude and inconsiderate to other travellers to enter crowded trains and buses at peak hours with that much equipment. Let's face it, you are not going to go busking when only a few people are around! I could write you a book on this one, but the strongest memory on the subject which comes to mind is of a hot afternoon in Italy somewhere, walking for miles laden with a drum, guitar and travelling bag. The free and easy busking life! "Never this way again", I cursed at the time. Get a good reliable bus, preferably with a matress and some cooking facilities in it. You don't (and won't) need to sleep in it every night. It's got the edge over all the alternatives. I can summon up no nostalgia for the old days at all!

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Escamillo
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:58 AM

"Being a piano player in a whorehouse with a room to live in upstairs might be a good way to go too. "

This brought to me a good laugh. My father (excellent jazz piano player) always said that at last, he would never die of hunger, because he could always be "the twink who plays the piano" - I don't know why he assumed any sexual preference of bordello piano players, but his phrase will live in my memories forever. I don't play piano, but as I'm approaching my 56, will seriously consider starting a piano career, just in case. (do they still hire piano players ??)

Un abrazo - Andrés in the troubled Buenos Aires

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 06:57 AM

If you're established, no. If you're trying to get going,yes, because low fees will never cover the transport complexities. Except...there always exceptions, the human spirit being indomitable. There seem to be a number of quite pleasing(from the outside, I hasten to add) little brothels here in Stoke, but I dont believe they employ musicians, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 08:25 AM

Ewan MacColl always said HE did - it was one of his answers to people who questioned why his lifestyle often seemed somewhat distant from the more working class one he wrote songs about. In the 60s/70s he insisted that he needed to buy a new, reasonably up-market car every year (it was a Citroen DS for several years). I never got an answer if a pro musician really needed a posh house in Park Langley, Beckenham, though !

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: pavane
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 09:38 AM

I believe Martin Carthy managed(s?) without.

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 02:20 PM

A car is a great help. In fact, lack of a car was one of the reasons I packed it in back as my main source of income back in the late Sixties.

Hauling a guitar around on public transportation is, in itself, a problem and using public transportation is usually pretty time-consuming. Also, public transportation doesn't always go where you need to go, at least without transferring a couple of times. When it came to gigs, I got by with a lot of help from my friends. But when it came to teaching (about half of my income), I was pretty much on my own. I gave private lessons in a studio connected with a music store and that was no problem. But a lot of my income came from teaching folk guitar classes. These classes were popular enough so I was getting calls from places well outside Seattle to come and teach there. I had the time, but I had no way to get there unless I shot a big portion of the day riding public transportation. This meant I would have to drop some of my private students. If I'd had a car, I could have done it. And I would have been able to afford to remain a full-time musician.

As it was, I was making a living, but it was pretty marginal, and I was getting pretty tired of that. I didn't have enough savings for a down payment on a decent (i.e., functioning) automobile, and month-by-month amount of my income wasn't consistent enough for me to feel safe in applying for a car loan even if I could get one. With a car, I could have taken enough singing and teaching jobs to stabilize my income. Without it, no. Catch-22. So I bagged it, went to work for Boeing, and sang just for fun.

Yes, it really helps to have a car.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:15 PM

That comment about "the car being the most important piece of equipment" didn't come from me, but I'd have to say it's pretty close to being 100% true.

A DRIVER'S LICENSE is the MOST important thing to have. I know a few (not many) professional musicians who don't have a car, and it really puts them at a disadvantage, and at the mercy of questionable people at times.

Get that licence though, and when you HAVE to be somewhere at a given time, and your transportation options have run out....you can go to BUDGET rent a car and be in charge of your fate.

Two of the folks that I know who don't drive have been late for gigs that I hired them on.....Club owners don't care about wonky bus schedules.

Rick

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:36 PM

When I started I was too young to drive and I still can't drive so I always had someone to drive me and when I was younger I had a chaperone!!!

Cat

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 12:02 AM

Played out of state recently.

Took an airplane, shuttle, and cab. No car.

Lots of folk get around on the bus and train grids....they reject the all American worship of the auto-industry and all that it stands for (corporate/political corruption, pollution, depletion of non-renewable-resources) part of their between song "patter" includes humor and a lesson to the audience.

Why do you ask Marion?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Marion
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 01:41 AM

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone.

Marion

PS to Rick: Yes, it did.

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Marion
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 01:58 AM

Oh, and about rental cars... the problem there is that you need not only a driver's licence (which I have) but a credit card, which is another thing I've managed to avoid so far.

It is a bit of a dilemma; I wouldn't consider asking favours from friends to be a sustainable solution, and even if someone gave me a car free I'd have to buy it things, which would mean getting a better job, which would mean not having time to devote myself to music, which would mean not needing a frigging car.

However, I'm looking into my city's car coop - that might be the answer.

Marion

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: GUEST,Bugsy at work
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 04:16 AM

GUEST,cookieless Scabby doug , Vin Garbutt doesn't even have a Drivers Licence!

Cheers

bugsy

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 08:11 AM

I make my living out of music and don't have a car. I think I'm a bit of an exception as I play Highland Pipes and PA is rarely required. Most of my income comes from funerals weddings and busking. I work all over the NW of the UK travelling by train bus and taxi. Sometimes it means a very early start 6:00 am, and I add the cost to my basic fee. The problem comes when getting more than one booking on the same day, where a car would be essential(that or a private helicopter). The cost of learning to drive, passing the test, buying a car, taxing and insuring it, feeding it with petrol, paying for parking, is far more than I presently spend on Travel. All the best PP.

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 11:03 AM

Speaking as someone who organized folk clubs for many years, I certainly think that a car is a valuable asset to a performer. A performer who has the ability to get themselves to a venue on time is a great help to the organizer who, in all probability, has a day job and (very possibly) family commitments to attend to before getting to the club in the evening.

I had no problems picking guests up at the train station, etc, but it usually meant that they had to get up early next morning so that I could return them to the station before I started work. If the performer was good enough, the fact that they didn't have their own transportation would not have prevented me from booking them on future occasions. But, then again, if the organizer spends too much time ferrying guests to and from the station, performers who have their own "wheels" might just get preference.

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 11:42 AM

Marion,

90% of life is just showing up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That said, I didn't have a car until I could afford one. Grayhounds were doable----but just barely. It helped to be young and into the romance of the grail quest that playing my music was.

That said too, a car was essential--later. The trunk was a necessity to keep instruments hidden when you were in dangerous places.

The FREEDOM of a car cannot be calculated. The freedom to explore on the off days (of which there are many) between gigs. The freedom to take your own P.A. system. The freedom of not needing to get a ride everywhere or to the farm house you are being put up within to save motel fees.

Thna there is also the freedom to have breakdowns and blown alternators at 4:00 AM while trying to get from a gig in New York to one the next day in Southern Indiana.

Ah, nostalgia.

Answer: No, you don't need one. But you'll burn out MUCH QUICKER if you don't have one.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 12:51 PM

Oh a *car*. I thought you said a *cat*. Now that's essential.

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 01:16 PM

Art Thieme's point about early burn-out seems crucial to me. It's mentally very wearing taking loads of favours off other people over a period of time, as is failing to turn up places where and when you said you would. And while cars do go wrong occasionally, in my experience it's pretty minimal compared to public transport nightmares.

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 01:34 PM

I once got a job as bass player in a country band because I had a car--turned out that the guy before me wasn't a bass player and didn't even have a bass ("Bob, he don't drive, and I ain't got a car, but we do have a bass and an amp")--They did have lots of gigs, in interesting places like Manton and Hesperis, and at dozens of VFW Halls each situated on it's own "Mud Lake"--and don't even ask about what happened to either their car or Bob's driver's lisense--

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Robin2
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 09:30 PM

Gargoyle said "Lots of folk get around on the bus and train grids....they reject the all American worship of the auto-industry and all that it stands for (corporate/political corruption, pollution, depletion of non-renewable-resources)"

I'm sure many Americans would love to do public transit, if it was anywhere as good as what you have on the East Coast, or in Europe.

My band has a van because we NEED a van....there is no other way to move 6 members, all of their instruments (one of which is a double bass), and sound equipment. There are no trains (Amtrak keeps trying, but can't run affordable routes to every where we go). The bus service takes three days to get to a gig 300 miles away.

We do shows within a 300 mile radius every weekend, and shows as far away as 700-800 miles once or twice a year. I would love an alternative to logging all of those hours in the van, but the sad fact is, fast, easy public transit isn't available in the states we play.

The USA is a big, big place, and if you don't live in one of the heavily populated areas, a car is a must to tour for a band! Exception: if you are SO big, they will spare no expense to get you there....I'm still hoping :>)

Robin

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 12:11 AM

Robin and Art, what you guys said. We played out in Kansas and heard from the folks who booked us about another performer who came out by bus, then discovered there was no good way to get to Oklahoma for his next gig, the next day. The people putting on his concert couldn't take him. He did wind up talking some person in the audience into driving him to his next gig. It's easy to save resources, when you ask someone else to use them up for you.

The East coast has good public trans, but many places don't. My dad, who was helping us when we were starting out, once said, "you don't have a good car, you don't have a career."

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 12:27 AM

I'm just going through the shock of moving 10 miles outside of downtown Orlando after living within a few blocks for 15 years.

I did it for love (and other things - my girlfriend is a journalist which means she makes enough money to own her own home - it's just in the suburbs). I'm now putting 100 miles a week on my 12 year old car, instead of 10. The bus goes that way, but it's a mile walk to the stop and an hour ride into downtown - if I make it on time to the hourly bus schedule.

The bad part is I'm now thinking twice about going downtown for music or other things.

pax yall

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Robin2
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 09:38 PM

Phil,

You bring up a good point when you say "It's easy to save resources, when you ask someone else to use them up for you."

We used to have a guy that played at some of the same venues we played beg a ride every single week because he had no car...this went on for quite a while, and he never offered to chip in on gas at all.

I finally asked him one day why he didn't buy a car...his answer was that he couldn't stand the thought of contributing to "the greedmongers that pollute America" , this while riding in My car, and after asking ME to run him by the grocery, AND the fast food place.

He didn't get many rides after that.

Robin

Subject: RE: Do you need a car to be a pro musician?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 03:44 PM

Marion, I don't think it can be done. I've tried it, and it doesn't really work very well at all. Matter of fact, having a daylight only restriction on your drivers' license isn't much of an improvement, either. Although it does help a little bit. I'm speaking from experience here.
Jim