BS: Our Apology

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 04:26 AM

Gnomish Dave - what you also need to take account of is that it costs thousands of pounds per year (on average) to meet the legal requirements and if you are not a higher rate taxpayer you have to do this every two years (or up to 5 depending when you arrived). And if "they" so decide, you have I think 48hours to leave the country. The pressures for someone on minimum hours to work illegally rather than legally are huge.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 06:09 AM

Indeed McG, indeed. Must be an awful thing to have to do, to risk such things to ensure that your family survive. I hope no one on here is ever faced with that decision.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 06:38 AM

Jim, Mr Trump will not be ruling "the world", he will not even be ruling America, he has been elected President of the US, not Supreme ruler.
I do not see Mr Trump as a Fascist and he is no more a racist than any of us who protest unregulated or illegal immigration.
Regarding charges of misogyny, he apparently encourages the advancement of women in his business practices.
The "pussygate" remarks although crude, referred to the nature of celebrity and how sexuality may be used by some people to gain access.

I think you are like an old 78 stuck in the groove, try to put a bit of thought into your contributions.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 07:01 AM

Regarding charges of misogyny, he apparently encourages the advancement of women in his business practices.

It doesn't work that way, ake. People are not consistent, so for things like misogyny we tend to say a person is misogynist if some of their acts are, not all of them. That means you cannot show a person is not racist or misogynist or is unselfish by looking at examples where they are; the label is acquired by examples where they aren't.

And no, I don't think Pussygate was about an abstract intellectual debate about the effects of celebrity; it was about what he as an individual felt entitled to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 09:16 AM

I think you are like an old 78 stuck in the groove, try to put a bit of thought into your contributions

Right back atcha, Ake! Rigght back atcha.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 09:38 AM

Trump was not talking out how "some people" behaved. He was talking about how he behaved.

The question of whether Trump is personally particularly racist is not really the point. It has been credibly suggested that Oswald Mosley was not himself antisemitic. But he set out to appeal to antisemitism, and to encourage it and exploit it. And that is what Trump has done with racism.

I rather think that if he had been in a situation where he saw anti-racism as a winning card, he'd have played that.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 09:45 AM

You've put your finger on one of the many problems with Trump, Kevin;
he would, and WILL, play ANY card, however revolting or illegal or whatever for self-aggrandizement.

Stay tuned......

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 09:55 AM

"Mr Trump will not be ruling "the world"
His bein elected witll affect the world - horrendously if he is allowed to proceed in the way he wants to
Hitler never 'ruled the world' but his been elected could have ruined it - it caused an awful lot of deaths.
"I do not see Mr Trump as a Fascist"
Of ycourse you don't - you appear to not see yourself as one, but, as with Trump, your outlook on life makes you one.
"he apparently encourages the advancement of women in his business practices."
If they are nice looking with big tits.
He actually advocated grabbing women by the fanny if it took your fancy - or did you miss that one - Trump's misogyny is beyond question, as is his racism
"I think you are like an old 78 stuck in the groove"
And I firmly believe you to be a fascist who is prepared to appease fascism
Thank you for finally confirming my opinion, as long as it took.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 09:56 AM

The fact the alt-right are happy to defend the normalisation of Trump, sexual assault and racism speaks volumes about their own characters.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 07:42 PM

If only it was just "the alt-right" that is starting to act as if Trump isn't really all that bad. The Tory leadership is moving into position. They may despise him, but that won't stop them from fawning upon him.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 08:04 PM

Get real, the man is president of the USA.....if the Labour Party were in power, they would behave in exactly the same way.....perhaps worse, have we already forgotten the relationship between Mr Blair and Mr Bush......but that was only a war, not the shock horror of "Pussygate"?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 08:22 PM

Everything you've heard about the trump transition 'team' is true.
We've had two so far and both were fired with no new prospects.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 09:12 PM

"His bein elected witll affect the world - horrendously if he is allowed to proceed in the way he wants to"

There you have it folks - The Voice of People - Ha spoken.

Whatever you do, do not contradict him, because should you have the temerity to do so you will be accused of being every "...ist" in existence and guilty of every "...ism" you can think of.

The self declared "Voice of the People" by the way is a bigoted, Anglophobic, whingeing, tooth-sucking, scouse git who wishes that he had actually been born an Irishman - but he wasn't - oh dear, how sad, never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 03:30 AM

Another one bites the dust

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 04:56 AM

"if the Labour Party were in power, they would behave in exactly the same way"
The Labour party aren't a hate-filled, racist, antisemitic, racist party
Are you going to explain why Trump isn't any of these things instead of blindly supporting him?
No?
Thought not!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 07:41 AM

Jim, I don't respond to mindless rants.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 07:45 AM

Oh bugger! I just have!....you crafty old ranter :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 09:06 AM

President Lying Sack. Get used to it, white "middle class".


Donald Trump Takes Credit for Helping to Save a Ford Plant That Wasn't Closing

By BINYAMIN APPELBAUMNOV. 18, 2016


WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump claimed credit on Thursday night for persuading Ford to keep an automaking plant in Kentucky rather than moving it to Mexico. The only wrinkle: Ford was not actually planning to move the plant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/donald-trump-takes-credit-for-helping-to-save-a-ford-plant-that-wasnt-closing.html

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 09:54 AM

"Jim, I don't respond to mindless rants."
You seem to have picked up your vocabulary from your bullying friend Teribus - is there nothing original about you?
My arguments may be wrong, but they are neither mindless nor are they rants.
You have been asked direct questions - you refuse to answer.
You have been presented with documented facts, you refuse to respond
Much easier to pass them off as "mindless rants."
Try again; in the face of all the evidence, why do you deny that Trump is a misogynist?
Can't be that difficult.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 11:32 AM

The world's awash with misogynists and misandrists, depending on how they feel.... just handy words to form clichés.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 11:45 AM

"just handy words to form clichés."
A coward's non-answer Ake
I ask again - how do you jusify your claiming that Trump is not a misogynist
Did he not suggest it was OK to grab womens' genitals
Is this your idea of a non-mosogynist world leader
The more refuse to answer this, the clearer is your answer so I don't mind either way
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 01:29 PM

What's old is new again.......

TAILGUNNER JOE TRUMP and Roy Cohn Gingrich.

Wait for it.... soon playing in a Congress near you.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 01:44 PM

Depends on what you mean by "the Labour Party in power", aken. I doubt if Jeremy Corbyn would fawn on Trump, but I have no doubt at all that his opponents in the party would.

There's no point in getting all hot under the collar about Trump, but that doesn't mean business as normal. It's as if America has contracted a dangerous and contagious disease. You don't want to get too close to it, but you don't indulge in hate or hostility either. They"ll get over it in time, but there's nothing we can do to hasten the process.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 04:02 PM

I strongly suggest that anyone who has any doubt as to the stupidity of this election heed the words of Paul Krugan. I suggest you look him up. I am not appealing to authority here. Just pointing out that if someone as qualified as Krugman is can make such a statement, we would be foolish not to take it seriously.

A lot of people in politics and the media are scrambling to normalize what just happened to us, saying that it will all be OK and we can work with Trump. No, it won't, and no, we can't. The next occupant of the White House will be a pathological liar with a loose grip on reality; he is already surrounding himself with racists, anti-Semites, and conspiracy theorists; his administration will be the most corrupt in America history.

How did this happen? There were multiple causes, but you just can't ignore the reality that key institutions and their leaders utterly failed. Every news organization that decided, for the sake of ratings, to ignore policy and barely cover Trump scandals while obsessing over Clinton emails, every reporter who, for whatever reason — often sheer pettiness — played up Wikileaks nonsense and talked about how various Clinton stuff "raised questions" and "cast shadows" is complicit in this disaster. And then there's the FBI: it's quite reasonable to argue that James Comey, whether it was careerism, cowardice, or something worse, tipped the scales and may have doomed the world.

No, I'm not giving up hope. Maybe, just maybe, the sheer awfulness of what's happening will sink in. Maybe the backlash will be big enough to constrain Trump from destroying democracy in the next few months, and/or sweep his gang from power in the next few years. But if that's going to happen, enough people will have to be true patriots, which means taking a stand.

And anyone who doesn't — who plays along and plays it safe — is betraying America, and mankind.

Shudder.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 05:56 PM

There are celebrities who exploit women for sex, there are women who use their sexuality to manipulate, and gain money or power.

Which is worse .....I don't know, but neither should have any bearing on this debate.....many politicians and for that matter Presidents, were sexual predators. Kennedy and Clinton being relatively recent examples.

The real point is that Social "liberalism" and Economic Globalism, have written huge sectors of society out of history and left them completely unrepresented and unheard.   "Well you can hear them now" as Mr Farage famously said.

I have understood that for decades society and politics in developed countries have been in decline....and I have said that there is a movement going on, a backlash against "liberal" elitism and Globalisation personified by establishment politicians the media and commentators. As I said previously the only way this movement can progress is if it is led by a populist of the right who can motivate the usually silenced majority.....If the left do not accept this reality and attempt to mould a decent society from the wreckage of the last couple of decades.....then the future is indeed bleak

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 06:12 PM

'The real point' of this thread is to discuss the US President elect surely? The whole premise of the debate started as an apology from two US citizens for appointing Donald Trump. If people wish to try to turn it to air their pet soundbites that is up to them but they do so at the risk of certain ridicule and probable censure for doing so.

If anyone believes that Donald Trump or Nigel Farage are the answer, then I am pretty sure they do not understand the question. Anyone supporting either of these two caricatures whilst still purporting to be on the left wing cannot have a complete grip on either politics or reality.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 07:17 PM

The "liberal elite" are the biggest and most dangerous caricature of all.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 08:15 PM

Let's hear it for Jonathan Greenblatt:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/jewish-activist-vows-solidarity-muslims-161118165023701.html

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: kendall
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 08:51 PM

My country just committed suicide. I predict a recession within a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 10:23 PM

Kendal we are in uncharted territory. A year may be too soon for protectionist policies to trigger a recession.

The grieving process is almost over as people are negotiating or already in acceptance.

For the last 9 months I harped (like a repetitive arpeggio ) that facts don't matter as long as long as Trump uses feelings and hatreds.
I would say it was like hypnosis but I don't think people understood.

So in reality it is only the Republicans that listen to me.
So I will now work for Trump. All hail Trump. Trump all the way.

Mike Flynn
may be the enemy within
but Russian TV
is like MSNBC

Jeff Sessions is not a racist he is only a standard bearer for traditions of the south. We must restore law and order and take our country back again.

Steve Bannon is a cannon
that will blow up
you know who.


B====   * bang --immigrants----muslims--jews--catholics--blacks-- >
B'


Trump is the bullet that keeps on giving.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 09:44 AM

Jeff Sessions as Attorney General: An Insult to Justice
NOV. 18, 2016

In 1986, President Ronald Reagan nominated Jeff Sessions, then a United States attorney from Alabama, to be a federal judge. The Republican-controlled Senate rejected Mr. Sessions out of concern, based on devastating testimony by former colleagues, that he was a racist.

Three decades later, Mr. Sessions, now a veteran Alabama senator, is on the verge of becoming the nation's top law-enforcement official, after President-elect Donald Trump tapped him on Friday to be attorney general.

It would be nice to report that Mr. Sessions, who is now 69, has conscientiously worked to dispel the shadows that cost him the judgeship. Instead, the years since his last confirmation hearing reveal a pattern of dogged animus to civil rights and the progress of black Americans and immigrants.

Forget about aggressive protection of civil rights, and of voting rights in particular. Mr. Sessions has called the Voting Rights Act of 1965 a "piece of intrusive legislation." As a federal prosecutor, Mr. Sessions brought voter-fraud charges against three civil rights workers trying to register black voters in rural Alabama. The prosecution turned up 14 allegedly doctored ballots out of 1.7 million cast, and the jury voted to acquit.

He also, during the campaign, endorsed the idea of a ban on Muslim immigrants.


Continued:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/opinion/jeff-sessions-as-attorney-general-an-insult-to-justice.html

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 11:24 AM

We have had legalized segregation before. We have had internment camps for Japanese Americans. Are Muslims too good to be relocated?
We have had suspension of habeas corpus. We have suspended Congress before. We have had The Indian Wars in which history has been successfully rewritten. We even had the war of Northern Aggression for a short time.

Seldom do we have a chance for a do over or second coming in policy.
AS long as the new administration can maintain a respectful fear, the citizens will remain silent as everything old is new again.


It is important everyone feels a divisiveness. A distinction will be made between old moldy laws and new fresh start laws. Finally a clear interpretation of the 1st 2nd, 5th and 14th amendments will make whites free again.

News will be made from the ground up. Fake news will be great news again. Perception is reality and the new reality will be more than fair and balanced. FKE News is real. Fear is real and so is revenge.


Examples will be made. Some in public and some in secret because it is obviously better to be feared than respected. So please sign the loyalty pledge to the President. United we stand, divided you fall.
You will be safe as long as you obey the Silent Patriot Rule. The power of the new USA depends upon it.

In time Greg and Bearded Bruce will walk hand in hand together.
In Silence Unity. In Bribery prosperities. In revenge Freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 11:32 AM

In time Greg and Bearded Bruce will walk hand in hand together.

Not in this galaxy.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 12:38 PM

Justifying that one danger is OK because you believe another one is more so is both fallacious and dangerous in itself.

Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are both dangerous. Trump more so because he is now in a position of great power. Hopefully he will employ Farage as an advisor to get him out of our hair :-)

If you believe that something is more dangerous, fine, carry on believing that. But do not make the mistake of ignoring the threat that really does exist.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 08:03 PM

Behold the power of the dark side.
There is a place for everyone. Become a red shirt and earn a stipend
Volunteer for glory in the armed service that is great again.
There are jobs for everyone again. We are all great fans of huge wars.
Along with our Brexit brothers ethnic purity will reign. Ake the merciless shall punish the meek What do we have to lose except for all the dark parasites that began to hollow out America like a rotten tooth. We shall shred our enemies like cheese. We will make America Grate again. Soon everyone shall know a great Ake where ther heart used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 03:40 AM

Once again the absence of like button comes to mind!

Well done, Donuel :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 10:37 AM

Well Done?...for an incoherent personal attack. I wondered how long it would take for Dave to revert to type.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 11:58 AM

No personal attack involved at all. Simply some clever puns. I suggest that anyone who thinks Donuels post was a personal attack re-reads it. Saying it was incoherent could well be an attack on the post and/or those who understood it but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are just on a different wavelength.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 12:29 PM

Oh, but if anyone feels that I have personally attacked them, I unreservedly apoligise. Let me know what you feel the attack is and I shall try to avoid it in future.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 01:27 PM

Sorry, but new thoughts keep occurring. If the post was incoherent, how can anyone know it was a personal attack?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 04:28 PM

Of course whatever he does now will be criticised by one extreme or the other, but I reckon the haters on here are willing him to fail!

Nailed your colours to the mast finally. Haters? Yes. Your religion is rubbish. You are a posing liar. I said this years ago, when you were posing as a naive christian. One extreme or the other? YOU ARE THE EXTREME.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 05:02 PM

It took me a while but I got there! In case anyone else is wondering Paul is referring to this post. I think!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 16 - 09:40 PM

Be accurate in your complaints, aken. Donuel's post there was far from "incoherent".

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 02:58 AM

The part of Don's post which referred to me , I found incoherent.

I don't mind reading people's musings, but personal comments should be backed up by some sort of validation.

i.e."Soon everyone shall know a great Ake where ther heart used to be."......."Ake the merciless shall punish the meek"

What absolute nonsense. I was of course quite willing to ignore it until a cheerleading troll popped up.

What is the point of this sort of nonsense, can the left not come up with something more relevant to the crisis which we face all over Western developed nations?
I have yet to hear any left wing solution to the problems created by Globalism ......how are we going to construct a proper society within the current framework?   Insulting people is no sort of answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 03:38 AM

I find it amazing that the few Trump supporters here refuse to respond to what the man has said about himeself and his own beliefs.
He is an all-but-declared racist, an open misogynist who regards women as available meat for the pleasure of men, his policy on Climate Change is ecological suicide for the planet, he is a practicing hate-monger and he has appointed a Jew-hater into office.....
The best defence for this I have heard so far is that he may not carry any of this out - doesn't alter on iota the thug at the top who has been elected into office.
How about letting us here if that's what his supported want for America and the world?
Nice to see the extremists tumbling out of their closets though - hope you brought your sunglassed Ake!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 03:40 AM

I don't mind reading people's musings, but personal comments should be backed up by some sort of validation.

Only to be followed by

I was of course quite willing to ignore it until a cheerleading troll popped up.

And then

Insulting people is no sort of answer.

I am certainly not going to get into any exchange of insults but I feel obliged to both point out the hypocrisy of the above post and defend myself from the scurrilous accusations cast. Not that I should need to justify myself but in this case i think the record needs to be set straight.

My like of Donuel's post was for the clever pun used 'A great Ake (ache) where the heart used to be'. I am very surprised if anyone really took offense at his post and I strongly suspect that the poster in question is simply using it as an excuse to justify a personal attack on myself. As we aware, such attacks are not permitted on Mudcat so that post should really be deleted, as have others before, but I am willing to let it remain as an example of what not to do.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 04:52 AM

"nonsense, can the left not come up with"
A further step out of the closet, after protesting about being accused of referring to "Lefties|" - wrongly last time, but maybe somebody is faking Ake's postings now!!
Your slip is showing Ake - being "socialist" as you claim, is being left by definition - you are an extremist right-winger - no socialist, by any efinition, can be that.
The term must come from the same dictionary that you got your "liberal" from.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 07:14 AM

Nothing inconsistent in what I write Jim, I am a socialist who believes in changing the economic system, you are a "liberal who thinks the lot of our people can be improved within the present economic framework.

Latest news, Capitalism cannot be reformed, you either allow it to run efficiently or scrap it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 07:30 AM

" I am a socialist who believes in changing the economic system"
No 'Socialist' attacked the left as you have - it would be an indication of schizophrenia
"you are a "liberal who thinks the lot of our people can be improved within the present economic framework.
"That is not liberalism" -
Every socialist movement in history has fought for a betterment of conditions within the system as well as advocating a chenge in the system - Marx. Lenin, Trotsky. Gallagher, Gollan. Palme Dutt, Rothstein..... every single one.
Of course Capitalism cannot be reformed, but it doesn't mean you don't fight against its worst aspects while it exists - thatis tantamount tooing s.f.a. and giving it permission to take us wherever it wants us to go.
Your support for every reactionary right wing aspect of this society, from forcing refugees to wear armbands to deporting those refugees, right throug to your hatred of social minorities, particularly homosexuals makes it clear what foot you kick with.
Your support for Trump makes you a fascist, and your refusal to respond to his stated policies makes you a cowardly fascist.
Know thyself - you are no more a socialist than your new friend, Donald T.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's exactly what you are.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Nov 16 - 09:44 AM

Methinks we may see a few French people apologising soon.

Marine Le Pen mightier than the sordid!

It is a global symptom of something, I can't fully put my finger on. I do blame global warming - or global weirding & the devastation it generates. Add in social media, and its abuse by agenda driven activists. But there must be other stimuli converging to create these interesting times we are living in. Bankers, that's it, we MUST blame the bankers. No analysis is complete without that!