BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:17 PM

"If the people of Gaza want it badly enough, it will happen.

That is the pourpose of the current bombing campiagn. Make it painful enough and the people will throw out the troublemakers"

A concise definition of terrorism!

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: pdq
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:26 PM

Here is the difference: if Hamas stops bombing Israel the fighting will stop. If Israel stops bombing Gaza, the Hamas millitants will buy more bombs and keep their unproved attacks going.

Israel cannot remove the Hamas terrorists from power. Israel has targeted their houses and businesses in recent days, but Hamas is still in power. The people of Gaza must do their own house cleaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 07:40 PM

You have it all wrong, pdq...

Sticks alone have never worked and they won't work here...

If you want the Palestinians to quit supporting Hamas in Gaza, yer gonna have to give them something to "hope" for... Not to "fear"... These people know all about fear and look where it has gotten everyone... Terrorism is what you are advocating and terrorism is one thing that every man, woman and chile in Gaza understands very, very well...

Terroism hasn't worked for either side...

Brinf on some "carrots", please...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 10:46 PM

What hope is there when political parties that seek compromise are seen as corrupt or selling out. And when the poeple who support them are marginalised, assassinated, detained or executed.

To me, the real problem is those who seek only a military solution - on both sides. And the keyboard generals who propagate further violence as a solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 11:14 PM

BINGO! Well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 11:49 PM

Bobert, I agree, hope can re-emerge under the right circumstances. a friend gave me a silver talisman at Christmas, with a dove on one side and the word hope on the other. I keep it in my wallet to remind myself, it is a powerful concept.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 11:58 PM

Hey Bobert, I caught cold today. I sure wish Karl Rove wouldn't cause me to get one.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 11:59 PM

Israel have short memories. The Government of Israel attacked an American ship in international waters on June 8, 1967. On this bright, sunny day the ship had been positively identified as American and friendly. This very fact has been repeated by the attackers, Israel. They knew we were there but around 1:00 they forgot about us. This was the excuse given, that they accidentally took us off their war table, like they just vanished into thin air.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:44 AM

Cold-eze, John... And keep the heck away from Karl...

*grin*...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 09:49 AM

Yup, keep bombing those Mosques back into the stone age!- best wayI know to win hearts and minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 10:09 AM

Yup, keep using those Mosques as military headquaters, armories, and launch sites- best way I know to add to the violations of the Geneva Conventios that area mass bombardmant of civilians provides.



"Israel launched the offensive Saturday after more than a week of intense Palestinian rocket fire that followed the expiration of a six-month truce, which Hamas refused to extend because Israel kept up its blockade of Gaza. "

And the blockade was because of continuous rocket firings from 2007 onward.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 10:15 AM

"The mosque was used as a storage site for a large amount of Grad missiles, Qassam rockets and additional weaponry," an Israel Defense Forces spokesman said. "The strike set off a lengthy series of secondary explosions and a large fire, caused by the ammunitions stockpiled in the mosque."

An IDF statement said it "will not hesitate to strike those involved in terrorism against the citizens of the state of Israel, even if they deliberately choose to operate from locations of religious or cultural significance."

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 10:35 AM

And when Hamas issues a statement saying "Hamas will not hesitate to strike those involved in terrorism against the Palestinian people, even if they deliberately choose to operate from locations of religious or cultural significance" that will, quite correctly, be taken as a commitment to further terrorist violence.

The people making the decisions on both sides share a common mind-set, not surprisingly. The regimes on both sides were born out of terrorist activity.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 10:39 AM

McGrath,

Care to show me any reports of synagogues with armories and explosives stored in them?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 11:28 AM

Twenty one members of the "Anarchists Against The Wall" organisation have been arrested outside a North Tel Aviv airbase after trying to block the entrance by lying across the road.
They were trying to show the Israeli bomber pilots the carnage they were causing on the ground while they [the pilots ] were flying far removed from the slaughter in their planes high above the ruined city of Gaza.
Respect to them!
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 11:29 AM

Why?




Have they asked Hamas to stop launching rockets?




Or is it Ok to kill Jews and Israeli Arabs?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 11:33 AM

"Care to show me any reports of synagogues with armories and explosives stored in them?"

They don't need to hide their armouries though do they? After all the US is busy supplying them.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 11:41 AM

Khaleej Times Online >> News >> REGION Palestinian missile attacks on Israel(DPA)

31 December 2008   

TEL AVIV - Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip first fired a missile at Israel on October 27, 2001. Since then, around 10,300 rockets and mortar shells have been launched at southern Israel, the non-profit Sderot Media Centre, which keeps a toll, said.

The projectiles have killed 32 Israelis, including four since Hamas and other militant groups responded to the current Israeli air offensive in the Gaza Strip by showering Israel with missiles.

Prior to the Israeli attacks, which began on Saturday, at least 600 people have been wounded by the rockets, and hundreds more treated for shock and hysteria.

The first rockets were relatively improvised, locally-manufactured affairs, with ranges not exceeding 10 kilometres. But the militant groups have since been increasing the range of the weapons in their arsenal, acquiring for example long-range Grad missiles.

They are now able to hit targets 40 kilometres from the Gaza Strip, placing around 1,000,000 Israelis in danger, police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld said.

The Grad missiles apart, the rockets are usually between 1.6 and 2 metres in length, and can carry up to six kilogrammes of explosives.

In addition, the militants often pack them with nuts, bolts, ball- bearings and even bullets, so as to cause maximum harm.

The relatively small number of casualties, compared to the number of missiles fired, has to do with lack of precision, which causes many to land in open areas. Israeli Foreign Ministry Official Andy David says the small number of Israeli casualties is due to the fact that most people take shelter once alerted to incoming missiles. All the Israeli fatalities, he notes, were caught out in the open when the rockets struck.

The issue, he says, is not the number of Israeli fatalities, but the number of rockets fired with the intention of causing harm and panic.

Israeli law makes the country the only one in the world where every building is required to have a bomb shelter and in Sderot and other Israeli communities close to the Gaza border, many people have constructed shelters, usually of metal, inside their homes.

Residents have been told to huddle in the stairwell of their building in apartment blocks where there may not be enough time to take shelter from the missiles. Sderot residents, for example, have only 15 seconds from the time a missile alert is broadcast.

In addition, many concrete 'umbrellas' have been erected over schools in locations on the firing line.

Since the current Israeli air offensive and Palestinian rocket offensive began, Israelis living close to the Gaza Strip have been told to remain at home, not to congregate in public places and, when driving, to leave the window open, to reduce the risk of flying glass should a missile land, and not to wear seatbelts so as to be able to take shelter quickly if necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 02:07 PM

Have they asked Hamas to stop launching rockets?

Have you any reason to think they wouldn't wish that to happen, and haven't expressed that wish, in common with all the people on this thread who have been critical of Israel's actions?

...........................
"...told...not to wear seatbelts so as to be able to take shelter quickly if necessary>..."/I>

That doesn't sound very sensible advice. The number of people killed in road accidents in Israel in the last year is far higher than the number killed by Hamas rockets. Several hundred times higher, in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 02:11 PM

So, if you are driving in a car....where would you take shelter in a reasonable time frame? In most cases, seems like the car may be the best shelter you have?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 02:58 PM

Have you any reason to think those here who support Israel wouldn't wish that no civilians ion either side were killed or hurt, and haven't expressed that wish, in common with all the people on this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 03:06 PM

"where would you take shelter in a reasonable time frame?"

Under the car or on the side away from the missile, with the bulk of the car as protection.


"In addition, the militants often pack them with nuts, bolts, ball- bearings and even bullets, so as to cause maximum harm."

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 03:53 PM

....
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Hamas' leaders of holding the people of Gaza hostage and said an end to violence would only be possible once Hamas stopped firing rockets into Israel. She said the United States continues to seek a "durable and sustainable" cease-fire.

"The Hamas has used Gaza as a launching pad for rockets against Israeli cities, and has contributed deeply to a very bad daily life for the Palestinian people in Gaza and to a humanitarian situation that we have all been trying to address," she said. "We are working toward a cease-fire that would not allow a re-establishment of the status quo."

International calls for a cease-fire have been growing, and French President Nicolas Sarkozy is expected in the region next week. Rice said she had no plans to come to the region.

Israel has targeted Hamas leaders in the past but halted the practice during a six-month truce that expired last month. Most of Hamas' leaders went into hiding at the start of the Israeli offensive on Dec. 27.

Israeli troops in bases in southern Israel are awaiting orders to invade Gaza. But Israel also appears to be open to the intense diplomatic efforts by Arab and European leaders, saying it would consider stopping its punishing aerial assaults if international monitors were brought in to track compliance with any truce with Hamas.

Israel began its campaign to try to halt weeks of intensifying Palestinian rocket fire from Gaza. The offensive has dealt a heavy blow to Hamas but has not stopped the rockets, which continue to strike deeper and deeper into Israel. Three Israeli civilians and one soldier have been killed in the rocket attacks.

More than 30 rockets were fired into southern Israel on Friday, slightly injuring four. Sirens warning Israelis to take cover when military radar picks up an incoming rocket have helped reduce casualties in recent days.

.......

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 04:44 PM

I'm sure that everyone would wish that there would be no further killing, bruce. But some people do appear to think that Israel should continue with what it is doing, and that this will achieve some good result. I would hope that Hamas could cut out the rockets, regardless of what Israel does, and I haven't seen any critic of Israel here who seems to disagree with that.

The point is, from whichever side it comes, the violence is self-defeating, and will inevitably lead to many more people on both sides being killed.

..........................

"In addition, the militants often pack them with nuts, bolts, ball- bearings and even bullets, so as to cause maximum harm."

Cluster bombs in other words - disgusting weapons whoever makes and uses them. Let us hope that the new government in Washington will at last take the USA into the treaty which outlaws these, and put effective pressure on Israel to do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: The Barden of England
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 05:27 PM

As always, the politicians will fight to the last civilian

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 06:18 PM

"where would you take shelter in a reasonable time frame?"
"Under the car or on the side away from the missile, with the bulk of the car as protection".

From what I have seen, the liklihood of thse missles hitting you is very remote (how many are shot off and what has been the causalities).

I have not read of any material (nuts and bolts) being loaded in these specific missiles. Since they are not too sophisticated, and already have a limited range, I would be surprised if they were packed with heavy nuts and bolts. The missiles I have seen on TV come pretty much straight down, (and you not get much notice), so rushing to hide under your car seems like more of a PR exercise, as was the 1950's advice to get under a table to protect yourself during a nuclear bomb strike.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 06:51 PM

"I have not read of any material (nuts and bolts) being loaded in these specific missiles. "

Then you have made an effort to avoid that information, since many reports have been available from June 2006 onward. The effects have been shown on numerous TV reports, and fragments have been displayed showing the construction.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:14 PM

The rockets are fired largely at civilian populations. Although they rarely kill, they are designed to do so, are indiscriminate, and have on occasion been fired at times coinciding with children's journeys to school.[

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:16 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:16 PM

http://feraljundi.com/2008/12/29/weapons-the-9k132-grad-p-rocket/

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:17 PM

http://arizona.indymedia.org/print.php?id=46855

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:42 PM

There is only one side committing mass murder in Gaza ...Israel.In the past few days alone 19 Palestinian children have been killed by Israel bombs and missiles fired from F16 warplanes and helicopter gunships.
I don't know how the Israeli media representatives can keep a straight face when they talk about targetting Hamas members and facilities.
Gaza is one of the most densely packed cities in the world built by Palestinian refugees from what is now Israel. Their homes and apartment blocks are being bombed and strafed by the most sophisticated US made killing machines in the world.
Streets, clinics and even a children's hospital have been attacked.
Some 2000 Gazans have been injured by shrapnel,collapsing walls,bomb blast etc
One young Downs Syndrome boy is now lying in a hospital with severe spinal injuries .His parents have been killed in the same explosion that injured him.
All this after a siege of Gaza which has lasted the best part of two years with goods and movement controlled and halted by Israel. Only a few days ago the Israeli attacked a small cabin cruiser bringing medical supplies from Cyprus to Gaza.The small boat was carrying international observers but was rammed and turned away although the attack was filmed.
Gaza is struggling to survive in ghetto like conditions with sewage flooding the streets,apartment blocks collapsed across roads and barely any power for lighting or heating.Needless to say the hospitals are also under attack and have barely survived the carnage being imposed by the Israeli war planners.
Major war crimes are being committed in Gaza and indeed across the whole of the occupied territories which are being illegally controlled and subdued by Israel. A test of the international law system is whether these criminals will be brought to trial and made to answer for the barbarism they continue to inflict on the million plus people living in Gaza.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:42 PM

[Planned Chemical Warhead for Qassam Missile]


In February 2002, Middle East Newsline reported that Palestinian terrorist elements were developing a chemical warhead for the Qassam-class missile. In December 2005, media reports indicated that Palestinian terrorists were preparing Qassam missiles with chemical warheads.

In June 2006, Fatah announced the development of chemical and biological weapons and claimed to possess 20 biological warheads for Qassam rockets.

"With the help of Allah, we are pleased to say that we succeeded in developing over 20 different types of biological and chemical weapons, this after a three-year effort...We say to (Prime Minister Ehud) Olmert and (Defense Minister Amir) Peretz: Your threats of invasion do not frighten us. We will surprise you with new weapons you have not faced until now. As soon as an IDF soldier sets foot on Gazan land, we will respond with a new weapon."



The organization noted it would not hesitate to use the substances, adding they could be placed on rockets similar to those fired at Israeli communities surrounding Gaza.

"If Israel invades Gaza, we will declare open warfare without limits..."

Fatah also claimed to have fired one rocket with a checmical warhead at southern Israel. However, the IDF did not detect the launch of such a rocket. 3

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:47 PM

Nasty things - but they don't even begin to compare with the horrifying stuff our lot have persisted in using. Except at least the UK is one of the mass of countries that have now outlawed such weapons). The USA and Israel, along with a few other significant rogue states, such as Russia and China, have refused to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: pdq
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 07:48 PM

"If Israel invades Gaza, we will declare open warfare without limits..."

That is what Hamas have been trying to provoke for several years.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 10:05 PM

McGrath, the US has banned the use of chemical and biological weapons, and destroyed its stockpile of chemical weapons many years ago...it never had any biological weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 10:54 PM

But the USA has refused to ban "anti-personnel weapons" such as cluster bombs, which most other countries have at last outlawed. As I indicated, there is a good hope that there will be a change in this policy with the new administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,hatherblather
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 11:38 PM

There is only ONE side that has committed indiscriminate aggression against civilians for a period of months with negligible counterforce until recently- THe HAMAS with rocket after rocket and the only reason they didn't kill a lot of school children is that the school they hit was closed due to, wait for it, FEAR OF ROCKET ATTACK.

The Arabs and the Jew-haters are playing an old old game: They see the blood shed by Arabs as blood, and the blood shed by Jews as: paint. It is unfortunate that so many bystanders are sucked into the similarly old game of bitching at the side that shows more civilization because that's the one more likely to respond to humanitarian concerns.

The HAMAS are showing inhumanity not only to the Israelis, but to the Palestinians who hve been ruled by a terror organization that does not hesitate to quell dissent in their own ranks by unlimited violence. That is how they took over Gaza, by murdering anyone from Fatah who opposed them. They are sheltering among fellow Palestinians on purpose in order to make the most of their countryman's bloodshed.

If the Palestinians protest being forced to harbor militiamen and rocket brigades among their houses, they are going to be shot by Hamas and presto! More civilian victims for the cameras!

They are beneath contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 11:53 PM

Isn't there a rule about people signing in under members' names and expressing contrary opinions? Joe Clones? You out there?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 05:47 AM

The BBC news website reported this morning that the american school in northern Gaza has been largely destroyed by the Israeli military and one person killed in the attack.
Would this have been a Hamas facility?

Far more likely is that the Israeli warplanners have deliberately planned to saturate Gaza with a variety of missiles ,shells and one tonne bombs as a form of overkill in order to break the will of the Palestinian population of Gaza.

They tried this terror tactic in the suburbs of Beirut and elsewhere in the Lebanon during its 2006 attack which cost the lives of thousands of civilians and destroyed much of the civilian infrastructure of that country.

The tactic failed then both in military and political terms and there is every possibility that it will fail in Gaza.

Israel is keeping the world's media out of Gaza but there are enough independent journalists inside the city for the world to see the appalling carnage being waged on its citizens. These pictures,videos etc are being shown across the world and there are growing protests at what is being perpetrated by the Israeli military machine there in a planned way.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 07:24 AM

this is for people on both sides of the 'war' in Gaza

what kind of man by Eric Bogle

What kind of man is he and which cause did he use
When he placed the bomb, when he set the fuse
did he walk away crying liberty
and if he did what kind of man was he

did he sleep well the night deft to to dying last screams
did no bloody ghosts walk through his dreams
does he shed innocent blood as part of a grand strategy
and if does what kind of man is he

ch
for all the tears and mourning
for all those you've maimed and killed
for all the murdered children
god damn your soul to hell

is he a family man does he any kids
will they ever understand what their father did
does he use noble words like freedom form tyranny
and if he does what kind of man is he

are you out tonight wearing your everyman's face
do you still see yourself as part of the human race
in spite of the murder you've done and the killing that you've yet to do
and that's why I ask what kind of man are you

from Gethsemane to Auschwitz the man with the gun
has stood between us and what we could of become
shall we be dragged once again into barbarity
if we let them do that what kind of men are we

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 08:19 AM

The only basis on which it ever can be possible to seek to justify actions that kill innocent people is that somehow these will reduce the harm done by the people you are directing those actions against.

That applies just as much to dropping bombs and carrying out "air strikes" as it does to planting bombs or firing rockets. It applies both to actions aimed at killing political opponents, or seeking to terrorise a civilian population into ceasing to support them.

That basis does not exist in this conflict. The only outcome of the killing is more killing in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 09:21 AM

"heatherblether " vs "hatherblather", Art-

This has been done before. As long as the name is different, it seems allowable- although I would use "anti-name" instead.


Both have the right to express their opinions- and be criticised for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 10:38 AM

Israel really does not want a peaceful and just settlement with the Palestinians.

It seeks the total capitulation of the Palestinians so that they can either be driven into further exile or live in small bantustans on the West Bank or in the overcrowded and heavily controlled and locked down refugee city of Gaza.

Israel has been in existence for 60 years. For 40 years Israel has illegally occupied the West Bank and controlled its indiginous Palestinian population.

In the 40 years of occupation successive governments have encouraged or allowed the building of paramilitary settlements on the occupied territories. These settlers have stolen land,intimidated and humiliated the Palestinian inhabitants and taken water supplies for their own use.The giant Apartheid Wall is only the latest aspect of this land grab.

The Israeli staTe has imprisoned large numbers of Palestinian males [and women and children ] often without trial and allegations of prison beatings,torture and maltreatment are rife.

The settling of hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens on the West Bank has made the whole notion of a just and lasting two state solution completely unworkable.Incidentally, many of these armed settlers come from Russia or the USA...and they have the chutzpah to tell the Palestinians to get out of their homes.

If the two state solution is unworkable then what about a one state solution?

The Israeli government would not even consider that idea for one minute because it would have to concede voting and civil rights to the Palestinian people which would lead to the end of the zionist state.

Instead Israel seeks to dehumanise the Palestinian people as if they have no human right to dignity or even life itself.What else explains its readiness to flatten apartment blocks with huge bombs and kill hundreds of civilians ?

These massacres and mass murders are not some by product of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians they are state policy.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 10:43 AM

Hamas really does not want a peaceful and just settlement with the Israelis.



Hamas Charter:

Article Thirteen:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 11:01 AM

The BBC website has just reported that a mosque in Gaza [Beit Lahia ] has been struck and ten people including women and children killed.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 11:03 AM

Looking at the RECENT history, from 1923 onward, the Palestinian Moslims have had a state (Transjordan), which just happened to be in control of the West Bank and Gaza from 1948 until 1967- AND made no effort to settle the refugees from the "Jewish State"- While Israel settled those Arab Jews that had been forced out of Moslim nations.

Like Pakistan and India, the mass transfer of populations occurred. Unlike that case, Israel still has a large Moslim population.

Pray tell where the large Jewish population of Jordan is?

Oh, yeah- it is not permitted for Jews to live in Jordan.

http://masada2000.org/historical.html

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM

Some 50,000 people marched through the centre of London this afternoon to demand that the Israeli attack on Gaza be stopped.

Around 1000 pairs of shoes were thrown by the demonstarators into Downing Street to show their disgust at the spinelessness of the UK government's response to the slaughter.

In addition there were many other sizeable demonstartions in UK towns and cities to protest at the attack on Gaza.

Tony Benn ,the president of the Stop The War Coalition was among those who addressed the huge crowd calling for an end to the violence and a just settlement.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 12:08 PM

And how many protesters were demanding that Hamas stop the rocket attacks???

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 12:21 PM

......3000 miles.....