The Advent and Development of Chanties

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 12:55 AM

2011-2012        Various Artists. Short Sharp Shanties: Sea Songs of a Watchet Sailor. Wild Goose Studios. 3 CDs.

I compared (well, collated) the John Short items presented by Tom Brown and co. on this project with the C Sharp and RR Terry collections, to see what items were unique to the unpublished manuscripts. I realize of course that the published versions aren't exactly the same as the manuscripts, however my understanding is that what Sharp and Terry attributed to Short in their publications was based in the manuscripts, even if the editors made composite versions that come out different. My interest here is purely to track the unique appearances of chanty items.

Anyway these are the unique (i.e. not previously "tallied") items I came up with. Hopefully I didn't mess up. Corrections appreciated.

NEW YORK GIRLS
SACRAMENTO
WHISKEY JOHNNY
DIXIE'S LAND
CLEAR THE TRACK
GOODBYE FARE YE WELL
LOWLANDS AWAY
PADDY ON THE RAILWAY
REUBEN RANZO
ROSABELLA

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 08:18 PM

A recently digitized source.

1890            Bassett, F.S. "Songs of the Sea." _Brainard's Musical World_ [Chicago] 27(313) (January 1890): 7-8.

Nothing too interesting here, though I consider any 19th century article of chanties to be of some notability. Each contributes in some way to broadening the audience and solidifying standardized print knowledge.

So this one is basically whipped up based in L.A. Smith's _The Music of the Waters_ (1888). I see no unique info. On the other hand, the author tweaks some lyrics here and there. For instance, "I am bound to the Rio Grande" becomes "I am off to Rio Grande." And "Slapandergosheka" becomes "Slopandergosha." However, despite such differences, and in light of several mistakes, it is absolutely clear to me that this knowledge is derived from Smith's text. There is no evidence that the author had his/her own direct knowledge of chanties.

Notable is the tweak of the text for "Lowlands", wherein Smith's "Lowlands a-ray" has become here "Lowlands away." I believe in this case that this was a rationalization, not a correction.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 08:40 AM

Gibb-

You probably got a lot of feedback from your lecture at the recent Mystic Sea Music Festival. Would you be willing to summarize the reaction? My friends were very interested in your presentation but were skeptical of your conclusions. Maybe they just needed to review this thread.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:05 AM

I confess that I feel somewhat skeptical too. Surely one of the most lyrical and melancholy trad songs can't have been created step by step by careless and romantic 20th century editors!

But Gibb's evidence that it was isn't easily disputed. I'm going to think about it some more, however.

As to Hugill, he certainly had no reason to expect that the shanty collections were fooling him. Maybe he learned the song from print even before he went to sea, then taught it to his shipmates.

At least that would make the "dead lover" "Lowlands" a real shanty, even if sung by only one real shantyman! (Two if Masefield had ever sung it.)

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 02:56 PM

Gibb,
Any chance of posting your research somewhere please? For those of us on t'other side of the pond.

Jonathan
Was Masefield a 'shantyman'? Is there evidence for this? I'll have to check my copy of his 'sea songs'.

Gibb,
I've suggested this before to other thread leaders. This thread is so long even on my new superfast computer it takes a while to download this thread. All that is needed is to start a new thread , part 2...part 3 etc every couple of hundred posts.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:28 PM

Steve-

If you first click on "the number of replies" rather than the thread name, the thread will come up in sets of 50, much more manageable.

Masefield did sail a couple of years as an apprentice, and was trained aboard the "Conway" as a cadet in England. He certainly was familiar with shanties as sung and most likely chorused along as he worked but it's not clear if he actually led them.

Masefield had very bad luck with both his first and second captains and finally jumped ship in New York City, getting jobs as a waiter in sailortown dives and eventually getting a job via a friend he met in a textile mill in New Jersey. Eventually he quit that job and steamed back to England and eventually became a successful poet. His mother was most distressed to learn he was throwing away "his career."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:29 PM

I guess it's actually called "messages."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:38 PM

Hi Steve

As Charley says, Masefield seems to have been familiar with a number of chanties in direct experience, though he indicates that chanties were on their way out or otherwise not in their prime when he was working.

In my paper, I argue that despite what Masefield's familiarity may have been with some chanties, in the case of "Lowlands," he had no experience (or else chose to ignore it).

I'll PM you link to paper on-line.

Gibb

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:13 PM

To add to the confusion:

On Nov. 26, 1932, the Irish song collector Sam Henry published the following text (with tune)in the Coleraine "Northern Constitution":   

I dreamt I saw my own dear bride,
Lowlands, lowlands away, my John.
I dreamt I saw my own dear bride,
My lowlands away.

[similarly:]

And she was dressed in shimmering white.

All dressed in white, like some fair bride.

And then she smiled her sweetest smile.

She sang and made my heart rejoice.

The salt seaweed was in her hair.

It filled my heart with dark despair.

And then I knew that she was dead.

Then I awoke to hear the cry.

"All hand on deck! Oh, watch ahoy!"

This appears on p. 144 of _Sam Henry's Songs of the People_ (1990).

The infuriating note by the editors says: "Source not given."

If this text has appeared upthread, I apologize. It was easier to copy it than to search the entire thread.

Comments?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 06:06 PM

Hi, Jonathan,
I think this is the version I used to sing many years ago. I must say I could never figure out how it ever could have been sung aboard as a shanty.

Thanks, Gibb,
I've seen the link on the other thread now.

I wasn't questioning Masefield's sea experiences, only calling him a 'shantyman'! Surely someone with so little experience would not have been allowed to take on this prestigious role.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:12 PM

There is evidence that "Drunken Sailor" goes back considerably further than we thought.

This site:

http://www.pdmusic.org/1800s.html

includes a MIDI for the composition "Drunken Sailor (Rondo/Divertimento)" by Christopher Meineke (1782-1850). The piece is said to have been published in 1825.

Its first strain is the major version of the shanty tune (essentially "One Little Two Little Three Little Indians"). At least one shanty authority (can't remember which one) states that this was a "modern" variant.

Either way, Meineke's composition suggests that the shanty, with one tune or the other, was in use long before the Civil War.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 03:08 AM

Further than who thought? ;)

We certainly have Olmsted's whaling voyage of 1840 that cites it as a work-song.

Then there is the claim in Eckstorm & Smith (1927) that it was heard before 1827.

I have heard this Drunken Sailor composition, but guessed it was inspired by the sailor song. I have no trouble believing that the sailor song dates back to at least 1820 (though without contemporaneous proof).

I call "Drunken Sailor" a shanty, but only after the fact. So far as its form was different from almost every other shanty, and it's use was so particularly circumscribed (walk-away), and (it seems) it was allowed in the navy, I understand it to be one of the work-songs that predated most chanties.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:37 AM

Well, if the 1825 date is accurate, that beats 1840 and tends to corroborate the otherwise uncorroborated 1827.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 02:16 PM

Sure...but we need more info! (Will we ever not? haha)

My perspective would be that the development of shanties and the origins of the song "Drunken Sailor," two different inquiries, do have a relationship...but not so relevant a relationship (this is where my opinion comes in) as some might feel.

I think the idea that the song DS is based in a previously known "air" -- in particular, one of a marching type....as might be played on fife/fiddle (the instruments of motivation in Navy ships) -- is very plausible.

In this case, the evidence is not, as Lighter obliquely suggests, that the song "Drunken Sailor" was "in use" i.e. as a shanty. Rather it presents the possibility that the composer had borrowed from a sailor song that was existing by the 1820s, or that some time after the 1820s sailors based a work song on a composer's popular air. Both seem plausible to me at this point.

That being said, I consider the *use* of DS as a shanty to be something appreciably distinct from the origin of its component parts.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 03:32 PM

> the possibility that the composer had borrowed from a sailor song that was existing by the 1820s, or that some time after the 1820s sailors based a work song on a composer's popular air. Both seem plausible to me at this point.

If the "Three Little Indians" tune antedates Meineke's composition, it would increase the likelihood that the shanty already existed. If not, not.

It's probably impossible to show that the tune did *not* exist earlier.

The point is that there are two sources of evidence to suggest the shanty was in existence more than decade before Olmsted's voyage.

That isn't a very exciting claim, but it's about the best that can usually be made in 19th C. folk music research.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:04 PM

To me the DS tune is very close to 'Roll the Old Chariot Along'. How far back has that been traced? I'm sure there's also an old Scottish tune that is pretty similar. It has the smack of a Highland Pipe tune.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:35 PM

What you say is true, Lighter. I simply take a more strict approach to reading the evidence in that I require some indication that a song was used as a shanty. Dating a song is one thing; dating its use as a shanty is another. The 1830s-ish existence of minstrel song "Coal Black Rose," for instance, which at some point was adapted to be a work song, does not suggest to me (n itself) that that sort of song had a life as a shanty in earlier days.

Steve, the info on "Chariot" suggests circa 1880s genesis of its shanty use. FWIW I group Chariot and DS in my mind (for right or wrong) due to their formal similarity to each other and their distinct difference from other songs that, and the end of it all, are grouped as "shanties." I can picture "Chariot" being developed as a shanty through the use of DS as a model. Just a thought.

The history of these two tunes is interesting, but at the same time (again a reflection of my personal disposition) I view them both as sort of "outliers" of the shanty phenomenon/genre. One is "too early," they other is too late!

"John Brown's Body" is a similar sort of song, I think, formally speaking.

Definitely shades of bagpipe tunes, I think, but I wouldn't limit it to that. The tune style could possibly be generalized to British Isles / Ireland music (?)

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 06:11 PM

Gibb,
These long threads take a long time to download even on my quite fast new computer. Have you considered breaking up the thread at some point to make it more manageable? It could have a tag of 'part 2' quite easily. I suggested this successfully to Richie on his thread. Just a thought.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:11 PM

I hear a vague resemblance between DS and RTOCA. It may simply mean that the use of one (presumably DS) unconsciously influenced some singer(s) to adopt the other for shipboard use. Or it may be completely coincidental.

Years and years ago I noticed an Irish reel that I thought was surprisingly reminiscent of DS, but I don't remember the name and can't say whether the resemblance would seem as striking today.

It was probably in O'Neill's collection (1903), so even if it's quite similar it could have been influenced by the shanty rather than the other way around. Most frustrating.

FWIW, my view is that DS counts as a "real" (if perhaps unusual)shanty because not only was it used as one and thought of as one by various shanty collectors, it seems not to have been sung in non-shanty contexts.

It's minor point, however.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:45 PM

Lighter, I also think that Drunken Sailor counts as a "real" shanty. But that is by my inclusive and ex post facto definition of "shanty." When I am thinking specifically of shanties as a body of songs developed in the merchant trade for double pulls on the halyards and heaving windlasses (my category, to be sure), I tend to qualify DS.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:49 PM

I believe I was mistaken. A note penciled into my copy of O'Neill thirty years ago says that the opening bars of the reel "Green Fields of America" are just about identical except in tempo to the first line if "Haul on the Bowline."

In fact, you can listen here:

http://thesession.org/tunes/695

Coincidence? There's no telling.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 01:09 AM

I've been taking a closer look at the recordings by Alan Lomax in the Caribbean, 1962. Not studying them in depth per se, but just trying to pull out all the chanties and get them logged for future reference. My notes on each, therefore, are mainly to "tag" them and make them notable for later comparisons, etc. As people know, Lomax's titles are often hasty and cryptic, so some sort of minimal notes are necessary.

I've not made any systematic comparison to Abraham's and Beck's collections -- just going on memory, being haphazard. Another disclaimer would be that I have listened to these in a poor acoustic environment, and haven't made too much effort to decipher words.

The main object is simply to have pulled these out of an enormous body of recordings, to gather together what might be relevant for further study.

Lomax (or the people at Cultural Equity) have used tags like "chantey", "sailor song" and "work song" without any particular rigor. I suspect Lomax's preconceived ideas about the chantey repertoire affected his methodology in collecting. There is one notable interview where he is awkwardly plying an interviewee for "A-Roving", and other times he asks vaguely about "pulling up the anchor" and "pulling on the main sheet" (!). Not so effective, I imagine, but of course Lomax's style, very useful in its own way, was to capture the whole "forest" and so miss a lot of "trees." I am generally considering them all to be chanties of some sort (or relevant to the topic).

Generally speaking, I think most of the work songs in the collection struck me as relevant. However, this goes only for the English language ones. There are work songs in other languages, too, but they sound appreciably different from "chanties" to my ear. So these are just *my* "picks"; someone else going through it all might find other songs of relevance. It's a start.

I apologize that I can't spare the time to make all of the links click-able. Sorry.

Here's the first batch.

Trinidad and Tobago

25 April 1962
Diego Martin (None), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

> Down Below (Mosquito And Sand-Fly) (cf. "Helluva wedding…", [BLOW BOYS BLOW])
sandfly married to baboon daughter…
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27627

30 April 1962
Plaisance (Rio Claro-Mayaro), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

>And Away, Ah Ah
O Captain, captain, what's your cargo?
We are traveling to Dover,
And Away, Ah Ah
Travelling 90 knots an hour,
And Away, Ah Ah
Asking captain what's its cargo,
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26075

>Miss Nancy Oh
Oh, Miss Nancy have a wooden foot
Heave er away, miss Nancy oh,
Miss Nancy ey, Miss Nancy oh
Heave er away, miss Nancy oh,
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26076

>O Eliza (I) (cf. Carpenter collection: "Poor Little Liza," by JS Scott)
Miss Liza, Miss Liza we're going away tomorrow…
O Eliza, don't say so
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26072

>O Eliza (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25816

>Tom Gone Away (I) (cf. "Man o' War" in Beck (?) etc)
I wish I was a fisherman boy aboard de man-o-war oh
Tom gone away, aboard a man o' war
From Dover to Scotland is 40 miles an over, boys…
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26074

>Tom Gone Away (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26078

> Juliana
Ah Juliana, you say you never been there
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26077

8 May, 1962
San Juan (San Juan-Laventille), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

> Mister Ram Goat-O (I) (not a chanty, but of the course the melody of [HAUL HER AWAY]/Sally Rackett
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26293

18 May 1962
Rampanalgas (Sangre-Grande), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

>Diana Hey, Diana Ho (cf. "Helluva wedding…", "Down below" (above), [BLOW BOYS BLOW])
What you think they had for dinner?
Diana Hey, Diana Ho
Mosquito liver and sandfly liver (leggo)
Diana Hey, Diana Ho

Helluva wedding across the river,
Mosquito marry to sandfly daughter,
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26418

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 01:22 AM

Next batch.

Anguilla

4 July, 1962
The Valley (North Side) (None), North Side (Anguilla)
>A Sailor Likes a Bottle-o [BOTTLE O]
So early in the morning the sailor likes a bottle O
A bottle of this and a bottle of that
And a bottle of very good brandy O
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27472

>We All Going Ashore
Captain captain where are you going
We all going ashore (cf. HIGHLAND LADDIE for cotton stowing in Hill 1893)
Going ashore but not to stay
We are going ashore this evening
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27473

>Dio, The Tree Fall Down
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27474

>Sundown, I'm Going Home
We hear Martin bawling now…
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27476

>Miss Nancy Went To The Corner
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27477

>Haul 'Em So Long
haul 'em ~below
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26564

>Sally Brown [SALLY BROWN]
Sally Brown, the bright mullata
O sing Sally
Sally belly ~
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26565

>Ivan Boy You'll Clear My Ground
dance all night till the morning come
oh oh oh!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26567

>Tom Gone Away (cf. [TOMMY'S GONE])
I wonder where my Stormy gone
Tom gone away
He gone on board of the ~mountain ship
Tom gone away
He gone away, the world don't know
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26569

>Peter, Remember You're Courting Her
Peter don't go ~
Peter!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26570

The Valley (None), North Side (Anguilla)

>Drive Her Home (cf. [BILLY BOY]. "Driver her home" also a popular song in Jamaica)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26626

4 July, 1962
South Hill Village (None), South End (Anguilla)

>Boney (cf. [BONEY])
The Russians and the Prussians
Sing Nanny O!
Poor old Boney
Sing Nanny O!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26598

>Bowline [BOWLINE]
oh, ho, the bowline hi!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26597

>Early in the Morning, The Sailors like their bottle-o [BOTTLE O]
So early in the morning the sailors the bottle o
A bottle of rum, a bottle of gin
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26586

>Fight On, the American Bullies
Hurray, boys, hurray!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26592

>Haul Away (cf. Hugill p. 357, from Harding - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZn7H_Ivlx4)
haul away, boys, haul away
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26596

>I Can't Go Long Pond
? – audio not working
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26777

>Yankee John, Storm Along ([YANKEE JOHN STORMALONG], cf Abrahams, etc)
O me Liza Lee
Who been here since I been gone?
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26595

>You Never Get a Sail
? – audio not working
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26775

5 July 1962
Copse Eastern (None), Anguilla (unspecified) (Anguilla)

>Island Deh [cf. [HILONDAY]
~ gone on the mountain
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26628

>Somebody 'Round
Everybody singing
Everybody calling
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26629

>Tom Gone Away ([TOMMY'S GONE])
I wonder where my Stormy gone
My Stormy gone, the world don't know
My Stormy to read and write
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26631

>Haul Away
I spend 40 shilling and I spend no more
Haul away, haul away!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27633

>Tell Mister Duncan I Want No More Coil Rope (cf. "Diana hey", above; [FIRE MARENGO])
fire 'em away, fire 'em away
~ steamboat
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26634

>II
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26635

>Interview with a performer about Tell Mister Duncan I Want More Coil Rope
A donkey or a hog with long hair… haul up a steamboat. "coil rope" means a fuss.
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26636

>Spit Fire, Throw Away
Boiling mother!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26637

>Interview with a performer about Spit Fire, Throw Away
"Spit Fire" is a boat going so fast that she is boiling the water
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26638

>We All Goin' Ashore (cf. another version, above)
We all going ashore but not to stay
We all going ashore!
Captain, captain lend me a boat
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26645

>Hombre
Say ~ahmbrey
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26646

>Sundown, I Goin' Home
Sundown, I never know
Sundown!
I hear Martin bell ring
Sundown!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26647

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 01:59 AM

Next batch.

Nevis

10 July 1962
Newcastle (Saint James Windward), Nevis (St. Kitts and Nevis)

>Interview with Walter Roberts about chanties
Roberts seems to accidentally (?) say "shankey" a couple times, like he is getting it mixed up with "Sankeys" (hymns). Sometimes "k" gets substituted for "t" in Caribbean dialects; but is this significant?
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26690

>Do, My Jolly Boy (I) ([JOHNNY BOKER; cf. Abrahams)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26672

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27023

>(III)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26678

>Pull My Jolly Boys (I) [JOHNNY BOKER]
[done while pulling boat]
Long and strong, me hearty man
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25904

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26695

>Caesar Boy, Caesar (cf. Abrahams)
You look 'pon Caesar, you no look 'pon me
Caesar, boy, Caesar
Caesar drum a-go boom-boom-boom
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26671

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26687

>(III)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26696

>Bear Away Yankee, Bear Away, Boy (I) (cf. Abrahams)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26673

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26692

>Blow Boys Blow (I) [BLOW BOYS BLOW]
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26674

>(III)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26694

>Blow, Bully, Blow Boy (cf. [BLOW BOYS BLOW])
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26675

>See Me Nanny-o (I) (cf. "Boney", above; Abrahams, "Woman belly full of hair")
Woman belly full o' hair
See me nanny-o
I see it when I went there
See me nanny-o
Hurrah for de golden
See me nanny-o

You want to see a monkey kick
Bus' a pepper 'pon his prick
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26676

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26689

>Blow the Man Down [BLOW THE MAN DOWN]
Blow the man down in the hold below
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26679

>Yankee John, Stormalong (I) [YANKEE JOHN STORMALONG]
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26681

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26696

>Long Time Ago [LONG TIME AGO]
A long time me never know you, bully
A long long time in the hold below
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26683

>Bull Dog Goin' Bite Me (cf. Abrahams, Barouallie Whalers, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM9ziMvI2ms)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26684

>Feeny Brown (I) (cf. Abrahams; cf. [SALLY BROWN])
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26685

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26686

>Interview with Walter Roberts about chanties.
They sing when pushing the boats and when rowing.
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26690

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 02:01 AM

Grenada

29 July, 1962
Six Roads (None), Carriacou (Grenada)

>Hi Lo Boys (cf. [HILO BOYS])
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25921

>Interview with Newton Joseph about sailor songs
Doesn't know "A-rovin".
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25919

>Long Time Ago (Caesar Boys)
Caesar, boy, I know you well
Long time in Mobile Bay
Bully, long time ago
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25920

30 July, 1962
L'Esterre (None), Carriacou (Grenada)
>Ride 'Em Trinidad (I) (cf. [SHINY O] [DOWN TRINDAD], Bullen's [SHENANDOAH])
{from Lighter:}
Brandy and wine, whisky and soda
       Hey-ey! Shiny O!
Shannydo, my bully boy, where you land that cyahgo?
       Right down Trinidad, brandy and wine!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25925

Ride 'Em Trinidad (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27038

>Yankee John (Stormalong) [YANKEE JOHN STORMALONG]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25926

>Hi Lo Boys (cf. [HILO BOYS])
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25927

>Steamboat Due Tomorrow (cf "Drive her captain"/ "And Away ay-ah", above)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25928

>Roseanna (cf. poor [LUCIANA], in Bullen, Abrahams)
The mountain so high and the valley so low
Poor Lucy Anna
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25930

>Shiloh, Boys, Shiloh (cf. [HILO BOYS])
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25931

>Yard-o, Yard-o (I) (cf. Abrahams, "Bell a-Ring")
Bell a-ring a yard o
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27034

>Yard-o, Yard-o (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27522

Ring Down Below (cf. Beck)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27035

Rosibella (I) ([ROSABELLA]; cf. Beck, etc)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27036

Rosibella (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27037

(early) August 1962
La Resource (None), Carriacou (Grenada)

>Blow the Man Down [BLOW THE MAN DOWN]
The Yankee give lumber to build collie so
Give me the rum, I will blow she away
Come blow, come blow, she bound to go
…she can't say no
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27107

>Shame, Shame, Shame For Uncle Riley (cf [BILLY RILEY])
Shame Jimmy Riley oh!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27113

>Long Time Ago (Caesar Boy) [LONG TIME AGO]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27114

>Long Time Ago (Caesar Boys)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27039

>Roll, Roll, Roll and Go (cf [SALLY BROWN])
Roll and go Blackeyed Susianna
Spend my money the I can't get ashore
I want to get ashore and I cannot get ashore
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27115

>It's Time For A Man Go Home
It time, it time it time it time
It time for man go home!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27116

>Roll My Riley
Seven long years I was courting
I was courting Mrs. Jemimiah
Hurroh, my Riley [grand chorus]
Immediately when I spoke to her she was down by the police station
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27040


5 Aug. 1962
La Fortune (Saint Patrick), None (Grenada)

> Roll, Roll, Roll And Go (I) (cf. [Sally Brown])
I spend my money and I can't get ashore
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27157

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25935

> Jean Jean-o (I) (cf. [DAN DAN], Hugill, Abrahams)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27159

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27603

> Sound Me Doctor, Sound Me
Sound me, I tell you, sound me doctor
My head to me elbow
Sound me doctor, sound me forever
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27163

> John Gone Away (cf. "Man o' War")
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25933

> Hurrah-lo, Put Me Ashore
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25938


7 Aug 1962
La Filette (Saint Andrew), Carriacou (Grenada)

>Hilo Boys, Hilo (cf. [HILO BOYS])
hilo, bully boy, hilo!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27231

> Going Away
We are going away to London town
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27232

> Fare You Well, Captain, Give The Men A Blow
Blow, blow, blow she away
Give the man a blow and let him go away
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27233

> Way-o, Way-o
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27234

>In My Own Native Land
In my own beloved land
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27235

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 02:03 AM

Last set,

Tobago

18 August, 1962
Pembroke (None), Tobago

>Island Day [HILONDAY]
Oh poor Miss Mary
Island day
Miss Mary gone a mountain
Island day
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27278

>A Long Time Ago [LONG TIME AGO]
Johnny ~Matto was a fisherman's son
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27266

> Blow, Boys, Blow, Boys
Nancy o, blow my diggy man!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27276

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 04:18 AM

hmm, I missed a few....Hope I didn't miss many more.

> Oh The Yellow Line Fall
[has harmony, minor key]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26587

> Oh Mother Dinah (cf. [MUDDER DINAH] in Hugill)
[Melody is curiously similar to preceding "Yellow Line Fall"]
Sing Sally O, fal-de-rol-day!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26588

> Adieu, Fare-You-Well To The Girls In This Town [GOODBYE FARE YOU WELL]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26594

> One Hundred Can't Pay My Way [HUNDRED YEARS AGO]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26590

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 08:13 AM

Wow, Gibb! That is a lot of culling with some good results! I really appreciate this kind of sorting. Now to go and begin listening to all of this. Thanks for your good work. J.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 06:06 PM

Fauset, Arthur Huff. 1931. Folklore from Nova Scotia. New York: The American Folk-lore Society.

This contains a couple stevedores' songs that seem to have been still current in the 1920s, Nova Scotia.

Fauset worked in the field with Elsie Clews Parsons.

Introduction dated 1925. States that the majority of material came from people with Black ancestry. Though popular perception of Americans might be otherwise, in Nova Scotia "the frequency with which one encounters the Negro is not unlike similar experiences in states like New Jersey and Pennsylvania." (pg vii)

Two chanty items, text only. Both were collected by Parsons. Pg. 119.

[BLOW BOYS BLOW] (mis-titled) looks like it might be similar to one of the Caribbean forms in the Lomax recordings. That is just my impression based on the phrasing of the refrain.
//
BLOW THE MAN DOWN

Yankee ship
Coming down the river
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

How do you know
She's a Yankee Clipper.
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

Knock him down
With a marlin clipper,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

The shipper's [sic] got your grog,
In an old hand dipper,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

The cook is a Swede,
And you want yer supper,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

The mate's arm,
Is just like a hammer,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!
//
The above was sung by Basil Robinson, 28, a longshoreman in Yarmouth. Sailor in West Indies, Atlantic Coast. "His parents are colored."

[ROLL THE WOODPILE DOWN]
//
HOLD THE WOOD PILE DOWN

Steamboat comin round the bend,
'Way down in Georgia
Loaded down with colored men,
Hold the woodpile down.
//

This was sung by Clarence Marie, 25, also a longshoreman in Yarmouth. Black man.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:15 AM

Wow! Elsie Clews Parsons collecting sea chanties in Nova Scotia. The last time I came across her she was down on the Rio Grande in New Mexico collecting Pueblo Indian stories. Very interesting find, Gibb.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:35 PM

I am starting to thing maybe chanties should not be called sailors' worksongs but rather, first and foremost, stevedores' worksongs.

If we think about it: Chanties were probably sung more by stevedores. On sea vessels, anchor-raising chanties would only be sung comparatively rarely—mainly in/out of port. So capstan/windlass chanties would not be sung so much, unless these devices were used as an alternative way to hoist yards and such. Halyard chanties would appear more often, but not constantly. Yes, there was pumping, too. It seems that most of the regular singing would be for the adjustments of sail direction and to tautness, i.e the so-called "sing-outs." And yet these sing-outs are not generally placed at the center of the concept of "chanties," and only a few authors on chanties give them much attention (for whatever reason—their relative "insignificance" is easy to imagine).

On the other hand, stevedores would be working "all day" to the singing of chanties. They would be closer in touch with the "land" songs that would inspire new creations.

And yet did many folklorists and such go out to collect songs from stevedores? There are certainly some studies, but are they not mostly studies of Black stevedores specifically? Other stevedore songs get mentioned only in the context of studies of sailors who heard them or also participated in that work. People didn't go out looking for retired stevedores to interview about their songs. (Stevedores, I suppose, did not figure in the national imagination of the "nautical heritage" of places like England.) While White stevedores were there, and I think of them in the observations of cotton stowing, no other observations of them are coming to mind, outside of mention in works about sailors.

It seems to me that this is a big gap, that probably shaped/skewed the narratives about chanties that developed.

In the least, chanties should really be called, IMO, "worksongs of sailors and stevedores." To define them first and foremost as just sailor songs may be a mischaracterization, that inadvertently marginalizes the stevedores' songs as something extra that one would include only when stretching the definition/discussion.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:43 PM

What I mean to say is that stevedores' chanties were more than sailors'. But their cultural context did not form a sort of "framed" picture that would lead people to consider them as a particular "thing" that formed a topic of discussion.

The pattern was to frame "sailors' songs" and then divide that into work and non-work songs, rather than to frame a category of worksongs that straddled the occupations of sailor and stevedore.

In many ways, the lives and identities of sailors and stevedores must have seemed irreconcilable. They did not both fit into the same "file." Yet their songs probably do.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 12:34 AM

"Wild Goose Shanty" of AL Lloyd, a version of [HUCKLEBERRY HUNTING] or [RANZO RAY], appears to be developed from an item in W. Roy MacKenzie's _Ballads and Sea Songs from Nova Scotia_ (1928). MacKenzie collected it from Ephraim Tattrie of Talamagouche.

Did you ever see a wild goose floating on the ocean?
    Ranzo, ranzo, away, away!
It's just like the young girls when they take the notion
    Ranzo, ranzo, away, away!

Tune is given. The pitches are almost identical to Lloyd's rendition, but, unlike Lloyd's, the tune is in strict meter.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 08:44 PM

Gibb-

I certainly agree with you that the stevedore work songs have been sadly neglected, and many were most likely the origin of deep sea shanties.

Anyone who wants to find some vintage photos of the stevedores at work should access the portal at the Library of Congress Digital Archives; the photos are available at high resolution, copyright free, and with a little editing are superb.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

Here's one from the early 1840s confirming Northeastern English sailors were doing some kind of capstan songs—no surprise, but to add the small-ish body of data. The author uses the word "chaunt" to encompass working songs.


1842         M., C. "Songs for the People." _The Musical World_ [weekly, London] 17(17) (28 April, 1942): 130.

Sort of an early essay on "folk song" (though not called that).

//
But if these chaunts have not much meaning, they will not produce the desired effect of touching the heart, as well as animating the arm of the labourer. The gondoliers of Venice while away their long midnight hours on the water, with the stanzas of Tasso; our sailors at Newcastle, in heaving their anchors, &c, use a song of this kind. A society, instituted in Holland for general good, do not consider among their least useful projects, that of having printed, at a low price, a collection of songs for sailors.
//

Hmm, a collection of songs? But were they work songs?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 04:22 PM

Scratch that! The passage in my last post seems to have been developed from a still earlier comment on Newcastle capstan song.

1818         Ford, James. "Suffolk Provincial Songs, Ditties, Healths and Proverbs." In _The Suffolk Garland: or, A Collection of Poems, Songs, Tales, Ballads, Sonnets, and Elegies, Legendary and Romantic, Historical and Descriptive, Relative to that County; And Illustrative of its Scenery, Places, Biography, Manners, Habits and Customs._ Ipswich: John Raw. Pp. 395-404.

//
Songs of trades, or songs of the people, are of very remote antiquity. The Grecians, says D'Israeli in his entertaining work, the "Curiosities of Literature," had songs appropriated to the various trades. There was a song for the corn-grinders; another for the workers in wool; another for the weavers. The reapers had their carol; the herdsmen had a song, which an ox-driver of Sicily had composed; the kneuders, and the bakers, and the galley-rowers, were not without their chaunt. We have ourselves a song of the weavers, which Ritson has preserved in his "Ancient Songs;" and it may be found in the popular chap-book of "the Life of "Jack of Newberry;" and the songs of anglers, of old Isaac Walton, and Charles Cotton, still retain their freshness. Dr. Johnson is the only writer I recollect who has noticed something of this nature which he observed in the Highlands. The strokes of the sickle were timed by the modulation of the harvest song, in which all their voices were united. They accompany every action which can be done in equal time with an appropriate strain, which has, they say, not much meaning, but its effects are regularity and cheerfulness, There is an oar song used by the Hebrideans, and our sailors at Newcastle, in heaving their anchors, &c. use a song of this kind.
//

A song? A single song? Or does he mean a *class* of song? Either way, it sounds limited. But interesting!

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 04:36 PM

Now this reference is a comment on slaves of African descent on the island of St. Vincent, in 1833.

1834[1833]        "Manners of West India Slaves." _Chambers' Edinburgh Journal_ no.101 (4 Jan. 1834): 387-8.

It's one of those pieces that shows a European's impression that Africans were making music "all the time."

The verse it quotes, one for entertainment, seems to have the same meter as a typical chanty, and the author says that the same type as shared between different contexts, including work.

The bit on nautical songs is interesting. Why would the author need to compare them to the "Canadian boat song" if, not far away, Newcastle sailors were also using capstan songs? I reason that there must have been something significantly different about the style of song.

I am not sure how to read "Our negro sailors, too, have their nautical songs..." Does me mean that they have songs in addition to the nautical songs of White sailors? Or does he mean that in addition to all the other Black songs I have been naming, they have nautical ones? The fact that he needs to elaborate on what that entails *may* mean the latter was intended.

//
A gentleman, resident in St Vincent's, has sent us a large mass of interesting original information on the condition and character of the slaves on one of the estates in that island; but from the controversial nature of the subject, we are prevented from inserting any portion of the details in our Journal, except that which relates to the manners and customs of the negroes.

"In their manners (says our correspondent) they are more polite than many would be inclined to credit:….
…They are passionately fond of music, and very readily acquire any tune they hear, turning every circumstance or important event into such rude verses as those sung on the day after my arrival at Grand Sable Estate, when they had holiday given them, and something to make merry.

'My Lady Brisbane gone away, 

Massa come and give us holiday.
    Huzza! huzza!'

And these you hear repeated over and over again, as they pass along the road, or down the cane-rows at work. On another occasion, when returning from an excursion, I was amused as well as surprised by hearing a negro boy as he approached me whistling, with great accuracy and precision, and at the same time with some melody and execution, the hunting-song in Der Freischutz. The adult negroes, when working in the fields, have their favourite songs, in which the whole gang unite, iterating or bringing down together a long line of glittering hoes in exact time; the delicate and attenuated voices of the females, blended sweetly and prettily with the full deep tones of the male performers. Our negro sailors, too, have their nautical songs, similar to the 'Canadian boat-song,' and ply the oar, or pull upon the hawser and capstan, adapting the measure to the slowness or rapidity of their movements. Nay, even the little Creole gang of children have some favourite choruses; and a leader, a little improvisature, who composes as he goes along, drawing from the stores of his own imagination, or forming rude verses from the ideas suggested by passing objects: first comes the solo of their leader, and then his little band of followers, joining in one simultaneous and merry chorus, beating the time with their hands or upon their little breakfast tins..."
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 04:52 PM

Gibb-

Very interesting.

I'm sure that the dockyard workers who helped warp the ships in and out of the pools via capstan power also had their work songs. Some day we'll find someone who was interested enough to describe them.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 05:00 PM

The following remembrance of life on the Liverpool docks ca.1830, appears to quote [DRUNKEN SAILOR].

1855         Roberts, Edwin F. "Dock-side; Or, Liverpool Twenty-five Years Ago: A Local Sketch." _The United Service Magazine_ 2(319) (June 1855) 240-8.

Pg. 248
//
On either side a dock-gateman is winding open the enormous watergates. The tide is up to the level of that held in the dock; and, being high water, vessels are now coming in and going out. Here is one entering the gut outward-bound, heavily laden, and looking very trim and compact. Half a dozen men and a gigantic negro are heaving away at the capstan. The topsails are hanging in the brails. As yet she is short-handed, for the whole of the crew are not aboard; but here they come, drunk and sober, leaping and tumbling upon the decks. Some go below to sleep their orgies out, and some aloft and hither and thither—and the vessel's way is quickened.
She is not yet out of the dock gates, and till then the gateman acts as a sort of pilot to her—giving directions and orders in the quick, short, stern tone which is the habit of seamen, from the fact that whatever is to be done must be done instantaneously, at once, without debate or dispute.
"Ship ahoy!" the gateman sings out, while, with a merry tramp and an enlivening song, the capstan bars go round—with some such burthen as this:

"Shove him in the long-boat till he gets sober."
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 05:12 PM

Moore's "Canadian Boat Song" (1804) is a fairly fancy melody, with a text to match.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 05:29 PM

1847        "Auto-Biographical Sketches, by a Merchant Sailor, Illustrative of the State of the British Merchant Service." _The Nautical Magazine_ 16 (Feb. 1847): 73-8

This is at least part 3 of a series, started in volume 15 (1846). I wasn't able to ascertain exactly what years are being remembered. If it's the West India trade, I am guessing 1830s (?). Likewise, I'm not sure if Bay of Kingston refers to Jamaica or St. Vincent or...

Local Black stevedores at a capstan are described singing in a unique way.

//
We arrived in the magnificent Bay of Kingston in the island of _____ after a very fine passage of twenty-nine days. Jemmy and his wife landed, with their traps, and took up. their abode with his relation, a planter, the mate was left in full charge, and I heard the master, among the last words he said, tell him to send to the consignee's store for any thing he wanted. We had no spirits ou board on the passage out for the crew, the master saying that it had been forgotten in Liverpool…
…
To enable the reader to understand the events which occurred on board our vessel, during our stay, it will be necessary to explain the custom of the trade as regards loading the cargoes of produce. The sugar and other articles are all collected at the various estates by small cutters and schooners, carrying from twelve to twenty hogsheads; at some places they are loaded at small jetties, at others, the hogsheads are carried to the droger singly, in a boat constructed on purpose, and called a Moses boat. When there is a strong trade wind, the drogers cannot get the produce loaded in consequence of the surf being too high to permit the Moses boat to land. They, therefore, take every opportunity of procuring sugar during favourable weather, and, in order that no time may be lost, it is the custom for the ship's crew to commence taking in sugar from the droger whenever she comes alongside the vessel, whether Sunday or week-day, day or night. These drogers are all commanded by white men, respectable and trustworthy, generally old mates of vessels; they are well paid, and looked on as a very respectable class; the crew is-always composed of negroes, and always numerous from the heavy nature of the work, the hogsheads weighing often one ton each. When the droger goes alongside to commence discharging, the greater port of her crew generally go on board to assist in heaving the sugars on board, which is done by the capstan, (or, at least, was done at the time I am writing of, now, the double winch is often used, and some vessels have regular cranes, which they set up on deck when taking in or discharging,) the negroes singing the whole time a variety of songs, and beating time with their feet. Many of the negroes are improvisatoires of no mean talent, and many a severe remark is passed while singing, upon both mate and master, if not favourites. On some of the beautifully still, calm, clear, evenings enjoyed in the tropics, when no sound is heard save the chirping of the cricket amongst the rigging, or the dull murmur of the distant surf, the sudden commencement of the negro song, on board some vessel in the bay, taking in sugar, would rouse the mind from its lethargy, and recall the wandering thoughts to the realities around.
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 08:35 PM

The following may not be directly relevant to chanties, but it is another example of the observation of Black boatmen's songs, with a text in a familiar topical style, and with a sentiment that reveals the author finds them to be both unusual and interesting.

1856        Lanman, Charles. Adventures in the Wilds of the United States and British American Provinces. Vol. II. Philadelphia: John W. Moore.

The writings come from tours in North America from the previous 10 years, i.e. since 1846.

Up the Chattahoochee River, through Georgia, on steamboat South Carolina, manned by Black slaves (who received some pay).

Pg149:
//
But I must not forget to mention the cheerful aspect which our steamboat presented as she came in sight of Columbus and paddled her way up to the levee. While the captain invited the passengers to assemble on the upper-deck the mate treated his negro boatmen to a drink of whiskey, which was a signal for them to march to the bow of the boat for the purpose of singing a song. There were twenty of them, and the ceremony was commenced by one of the fellows mounting the capstan and pretending to read the words to be sung from a newspaper, which he held upside down. Their voices were exceedingly good, but, instead of a regular song, the music was more of an incoherent chant, wild and mournful, and breathing forth such impromptu words as these:

"We's up the Chattahoochee, 

On de good old South Calina, 

Going to see my true love, 

How is you my darlin?

Now de work is over 

We's all coming home I"

To my unsophisticated ear there was more melody and pure sentiment in this native chant as it echoed over the tranquil waters, than I ever enjoyed in a fashionable concert room.
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 09:23 PM

1839         'Knickerbocker.' "Odds and Ends: From the Portfolio of a Penny-A-Liner." _The Family Magazine_ [monthly, Cincinnati] 4. Pp. 76-9.

The author is presumably a native of New York. Another sort of early musing on what might be called "folk music." Describes/praises the singing of Black stevedores in New Orleans. They are hauling by hand, the chantyman gathering up the end of the rope. Also makes reference to TD Rice's minstrel performances.

Pg 78:
//
…What I call unwritten musick, is such as has never been marked and dotted out on five straight lines—such as cannot be bought at Atwill's—such as is never thumbed by the young miss who yawns at her piano. Reader, if you want to hear unwritten musick, go down to the docks, find a ship from New Orleans, with a negro crew, sit down on a cotton bag, and you will hear, while she is unloading, airs that will haunt you for weeks afterward. You will see half a dozen stout fellows, with lungs like a boss chimneysweep, and wind like a bellows, pulling at the rope which raises the cargo from the hold, keeping time to the air which is sung by their ship-mate who coils away, and at the end of every half minute join in the chorus with a heartiness and power that is most edifying to hear and behold. Unwritten musick is to be heard everywhere. The shoemaker keeps time to it, as he pulls out his long waxed-ends; the porter walks to it; it regulates the strokes of the blacksmith, when the heated iron sparkles upon his anvil; the black cook hums it, as she turns the spit, and it is ever falling from the lips of the young, the lovely, the innocent, and the gay.
Musick of all kinds, written or unwritten, is to be had in this city [New York] in great quantities, and at various prices. It costs a dollar to hear Mrs. Wood sing at the Park Theatre; seventy-five cents to hear Mr. Rice execute "Jim Crow" at the Bowery; and for fifty cents we can hear "Sittin' on a rail" done by the great composer himself, at the Franklin.
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 05:34 AM

In his _Singing the Master_ (1992), Roger Abrahams comments,

Songs with the same refrains and tunes as corn shuckings are found in cotton-loading and hoeing songs and sea shanties (including the songs above, "Ju-ran-zie," "Long Time Ago," and "It Rain, Boy, It Rain." (pg120)

Elsewhere Abrahams states that the following song is a version of the sea chantey "Reuben Ranzo"...

The song, from a corn shucking, comes in

Chenault, John Cabell and Jonathan Truman Dorris. _Old Cane Springs: A Story of the War Between the States in Madison County, Kentucky_. Louisville, KY: Standard Print Co., 1937.

pg.47

//
Old marster shot a wild goose

A hundred vices answered from all parts of the field and each mangrabbed a stalk for shucking.

Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.
It wuz seben years fallin'

The multitude of voices cried out as at first—

Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

It was seben years cookin'.
        Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

A knife couldn't cut it.
        Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

A fork couldn't stick it.
        Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

There was great harmony and perfect concord, although the men were scattered.
//

The "wild goose" in conjunction with "Ranzo" (?) is notable here.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:50 AM

Hey Gibb, a very interesting connection. It, of course, brings to mind Leadbelly's "Grey Goose" song about "the preacher went a huntin'". The refrain there is simply, "Lord, Lord, Lord".

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 09:45 AM

I don't see any resemblance to "Reuben Ranzo" except for the syllable "ranz" in the refrain.

Are the tunes similar?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 03:53 PM

No tune.

I share in the sentiment of your comment, Lighter.

I should have mentioned that I thought this was an interesting reference to share because Abrahams' comment about the sharing between corn-shucking and other "inland" work-songs with chanties has been one of the ideas on this thread. I think that when Abrahams did his Caribbean chanties research he may not have realized the extent of sharing, but then later when he wrote this book all about corn-shucking bees he was struck by the similarities.

Whether those overall similarities may have caused him to "stretch" in making some connections is a different matter.

Abrahams presented the "ju-ran-zie' song in the book before making the comment. When I saw the song, I actually immediately thought, "ranzo!" I may be stretching as well! - but looking at the material with similar "eyes" as Abrahams.

But then when I saw his endnote saying this was a "version" of "Reuben Ranzo," I was surprised that he would be so positive about it. I would leave it at the possibility that the phrase "ranzo" courses through a number of song choruses.

I believe Abrahams' rationale here goes beyond the immediate contents of the text in the example. He does also mention the "Grey Goose"—good catch, John Minear! He points out that "Grey Goose" and some other songs have a similar narrative in the solo lines. He considers this what he calls the "Marster-John" theme, about a slave owner trying to kill a slave, but the slave won't go easily. ...so... Abraham reads the story of "Reuben Ranzo," who is whipped and punished by the ship's "master" as being a "re-coded" version of what "might at one point have been a cante-fable."

The very short solo lines, like, "and then this happened. and then this, then this. then this" do seem to characterize Reuben Ranzo, Grey Goose, and the corn-shucking example. Abrahams, I believe, is juggling all the loose characteristics—poetic meter, narrative theme, "ranz" morpheme, working context—and making a connection. This is the type of thing I've been hoping to accomplish with this thread, etc....to read better between the lines after exposure to lots of data.

However, I do balk again when I read another of his statements. "It should be noted that almost all of the corn songs reported here are also widely found as sea chanteys." (pg191) Almost all?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Doodlepip
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:04 PM

Lyrics to "I wish I was with Nancy" from Short Sharp Shanties or any other source would be appreciated please

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 09:58 PM

Hi Doodlepip,

I don't believe there is any other source besides the manuscript from Cecil Sharp (of John Short) on which Tom Brown of "Short Sharp Shanties" based that rendition. If you're having trouble hearing what Tom sings, perhaps you could jot down what you do hear (or think you hear) and we can fill in the gaps.

Tom Brown (doc.tom on Mudcat) could possibly supply the words he sang—only a couple verses of which (correct me if I'm wrong) were actually sung by the chantyman John Short.

There must certainly be other parodies of "Dixie's Land" like this, too.

As far as sailor-generated parodies go, there is one in Hugill's unabridged _Shanties from the Seven Seas_. I don't remember offhand exactly what Hugill printed, but I red between the lines (always a perilous endeavor) and came up with this rendition.
Dixie

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 10:28 PM

Interesting discussion of "Ranzo."

"Round the Corn, Sally" is certainly similar to "Round the Corner, Sally."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble