BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 10:50 PM

I don't like that you do so without saying who you are. Go pound yer pud kid, you'll get more out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 10:53 PM

"I haven't stooped to your usual belligerent and anti-social tactics, now have I?"

Interesting also that you say this. I have stopped doing that for the past while. You haven't, it seems.

Have a nice day, GUEST. Remember yer pud. It needs you mare than this thread does.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: mg
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 10:54 PM

you know what abusive guest? There is one freedom and it is not American freedom and it is not Cambodian freedom and it is not Iranian freedom. It is just freedom. Like there is not American air and Iraqi air. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:12 PM

Wrong. There is American freedom, and for Iraqis, it's coming to a city near them at gunpoint. Those our OUR TROOPS holding the guns to the heads of the Iraqis, and ordering them to VOTE NOW!

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:19 PM

brucie, I'm a shameless agitator. That ruffles feathers. I really don't care about that, because I know what I do isn't abusive in the least. Provocative? Yes. Abusive? No.

At least I've figured out that even if you're on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there praying. You, apparently, need some work in that area.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:20 PM

Guest,

"OUR TROOPS holding the guns to the heads of the Iraqis, and ordering them to VOTE NOW! "

Hardly. OUR troops are providing a ( relatively)safe place for the Iraqis to vote for whoever they want- it is the insurgents who are blowing up US troops and Iraqi civilians to keep them from voting at all. Is that who you are supporting?

The fastest way to get the US troops OUT is fro a real election to be held, and then get politely asked to leave. But of course, you have no interest in that.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:31 PM

Well, we'll see very soon just how exactly these elections will result in ending the US occupation of Iraq. According to your scenario, we should be expecting our troops home real soon, mission accomplished.

And beardedbruce, don't try that lame ass smear tactic of "if you don't support the troops, you support the terrorists" crap with me. Homey don't play dat tune.

BTW, I especially enjoyed your suggestion that the American troops are providing Iraqis a "relatively safe place" to vote.

Really? Where? In Nashville?

We are the ones imposing this election upon Iraqis who don't really want an election right now, thank you very much. And it is our troops' presence which is fueling the INDIGENOUS, LOCAL INSURGENCY FIGHTING THE AMERICAN OCCUPATION. That isn't Iraqis fomenting the insurgency, it is the occupiers--us. Not them.

But we'll see how true the Bush doctrine rhetoric rings in a couple of weeks, now won't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:33 PM

iF YOU OBJECT TO HAVING THE ELECTION, WHO SHOULD i THINK THAT YOU SUPPORT?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:39 PM

Sorry about the caps lock.


"INDIGENOUS, LOCAL INSURGENCY FIGHTING THE AMERICAN OCCUPATION. "

So THEY don't want to have an election and get rid of us? Sounds like YOU have a limited understanding of cause and effect- IF we leave, they would get what YOU say they want- so WHY are they keeping us there?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:41 PM

It isn't a question of whom I support, beardedbruce. It is a matter of not supporting the mission AT ALL. Not the invasion of Iraq, not the occupation of Iraq, and not the sham we are passing off as a free and fair democratic election, at the expense of the Iraqi people caught in the cross-fire of a civil war started by our invasion and occupation.

That's right, civil war. Just like the Pentagon and White House planned. As long as Bush and his cronies are in power, we WON'T be gettin' outta Iraq. And you can take that to yer local Bush Branch of Citibank nearest you.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:46 PM

But of course, when US troops do pull out, by the request of the Iraqis, and the UN fails to provide any "peacekeeping " troops, you will blame the US for us NOT being there...

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:51 PM

The entire world already blames the US for the tragedy that is now Iraq. We don't have to wait for the US troops to pull out to see the horror--we've already succeeding in creating and sustaining the horror there.

But keep your head down in the sand there, beardedbruce, and keep on believing all the right wing propaganda you hear on cable news, talk radio, the right wing internet sites, etc. and everything will be JUST FINE. Bush is here for 4 more years, and the god damn American military is patrolling the planet and saving the day for American freedom and liberty.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 05 - 11:55 PM

So, from your point of god-like wisdom, what would you have the US do, NOW, in the present situation?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:04 AM

beardedbruce, it isn't what I think should happen now that matters, it is what the Iraqis think should happen that matters.

And according to The (UK) Times Online today:

January 23, 2005

Go home Yanks, says PM in waiting
Hala Jaber, Baghdad

THE Shi'ite Muslim cleric tipped to become prime minister after next Sunday's election in Iraq has said it will be the duty of the new government to demand the withdrawal of American forces "as soon as possible".

"No people in the world accepts occupation and nor do we accept the continuation of American troops in Iraq," said Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, leader of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq.

"We regard these forces to have committed many mistakes in the handling of various issues, the first and foremost being that of security, which in turn has contributed to the massacres, crimes and calamities that have taken place in Iraq against the Iraqis."

In comments certain to raise eyebrows in the United States, al-Hakim spoke of a role for Iran and Syria — both regarded in Washington as enemies in the war on terror — along with Iraq's other neighbours, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Kuwait, in the security of the country. "

And he is the guy most likely to be the next Prime Minister of Iraq, beardedbruce. And it don't sound like he will be asking the American troops to leave politely.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:07 AM

But that's only if we put guns to their heads to make them vote for him. Weird, man. Kinda far out. Ironical, like.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:07 AM

So, he kicks us out and we leave- WHAT PART OF THE ELECTION do you have a problem with?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:14 AM

I think we should, like, order our soldiers to shoot THEMSELVES in the head before the elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:17 AM

Thank you for your admitting that you are an idiot. I will NOT presume that you represent any other liberal or left-wing viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:18 AM

All parts of the election. But especially the part of the elections where everybody gets blown up, and nobody gets to cast a legitimate ballot.

And for all those of you praying for the American troops and the Iraq mission, let me ask you this: WWJT?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:19 AM

Guest - I think you may be wrong on that last point (of course its all speculation at this point) but Abdul Aziz al-Hakim is more likely to form an alliance with Iran. Thats what Bush fears most. Thats why Bush wants civil war and that will be his excuse for leaving troops in Iraq. He knows that if Iraq and Iran form an alliance, all American interests in the region are toast.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:25 AM

I was speaking tongue in cheek, dianavan. Bush doesn't fear civil war in Iraq, he is fomenting it. Not only is it now the publicly stated intention of Abdul Aziz al-Hakim to form an alliance with Iran, but also the countries mentioned in today's Times article I quote from above.

In other words, he is talking about forming a regional security coalition of Muslim countries to replace the American and British troops, and keep the UN out. A regional coalition of Muslim countries would be a tremendous threat to the region and the world. But then, Bush doesn't mind that. It just gives him another excuse to invade and occupy the entire region.

Which will take a draft, of course, but that's OK. We can all just kneel down and pray our kids won't have low numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:27 AM

So, he kicks us out and we leave- WHAT PART OF THE ELECTION do you have a problem with?

Would you care to give a real answer?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:32 AM

I gave my real answer. I'm opposed to every aspect of this sham the Bush administration keeps calling an election. It isn't going to be an election. Hell, the candidates aren't even allowing their names to be released in advance, for fear of being assassinated. For good reason. A good number of them have been already.

There is no way that anyone can justify the level of violence this push for the American controlled election is causing the Iraqi people. No justification for it whatsoever. The elections never should have been held so soon. The security situation should never have deteriorated like this. We never should have invaded Iraq.

It is all a bloody, horrific mess of the Bush/Blair administrations' making. They are knee deep in the blood and gore of their inhumane, imperialist policies.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:34 AM

"At least I've figured out that even if you're on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just sit there praying. You, apparently, need some work in that area."

As I said earlier, you know NOTHING about me. And by the looks of it you never will. Best for you to keep it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:36 AM

So, what you are saying is that you want the US troops to maintain military control of the country for the indefinite future.

We CAN'T leave until a civilian government is in place, according to the UN.


I have already stated in other threads that the blood is on the hands of those who encouraged Saddam NOT to comply with the UN resolutions.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:46 AM

Saddam was a puppet of the U.S. and the Saudis. When he decided not to play ball anymore, the U.S. invaded.

So who do you think encouraged Saddam NOT to comply with UN regulations?

The blood of the Iraqis is on the hands of those that blindly follow a leader who decides to go it alone internationally. You're just lucky its not your blood.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:52 AM

beardedbruce, I said nothing of the sort. You are merely trying to "attribute" words to me I never said, while desperately trying to play the right wing spin game.

But you know what? You make a shitty Hannity.

US TROOPS OUT OF IRAQ NOW.

That's what I said. And I'll stick to that story, no matter what bullshit you come up with.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:54 AM

The French , the Germans, and the Russians, who were making millions off violating the sanctions, and those of you out there protesting US action without asking Saddam to comply with the UN resolutions defining what he had agreed to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:55 AM

And beardedbrucie, did you forget that the US doesn't comply with UN resolutions either? So should France, Germany, Russia, and China form a coalition and invade us because of our UN violations?

And hell, NOBODY is worse with the UN violations than Israel fer chrissake. So I think France, Germany, Russia and China should invade and liberate Israel too while they are at it.

Freedom and liberty--it's the dinner being shoved down the world's throat by Bush & Co.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:00 AM

Guest,

US troops out? In violation of UN rulings? You are being inconsistant.


Do you have any comprehension of what a "cease-fire" is?

In 12 years, Saddam did not comply with HOW MANY resolutions that would have ended the war? There was NO peace treaty from the Kuwait invasion- we were STILL at war.

I have been through this before- but it seems that there is no desire to have a reasonable discussion of the facts of the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:06 AM

Anyway, the prayer request: Message me, OK, Mary?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:07 AM

US OUT OF IRAQ NOW.

Which part of that unequivocal statement do you not get, beardedbruce?

As to you invoking the UN, don't make me laugh. You are as anti-UN as the right wing nuts come. But when you and your Bushie boy get cornered, like you are on Iraq, you invoke the name of the UN all over the place, like it will somehow buy you time or an escape clause from having fucked up Iraq real bad.

Sorry beardedbruce, but Homey don't play dat tune either.

You were a cheerleader for this war, and now you too are knee deep in the blood of dead and disabled Americans and Iraqis.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:09 AM

As in culpable, beardedbruce. And I mean that from the very bottom of my heart. YOU are personally culpable in each and every death and and disability that has resulted from this obscene invasion and occupation. Every single one.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:12 AM

Ah, let me get EVERYONE ticked:

Lord,

I pray you put an end to war, to killing and the slaughter of innocent people. I pray for both the quick and the dead regardless of the political or religious beliefs; sex or ethnicity; regardless of their physical or mental construct. I pray too for the people who have posted to this thread with malice in their hearts, myself included. I pray for the fortitude to hold love in my heart for my enemy, and that you'll help me find forgiveness for those who have wronged me as ardently as I hope they'll find forgiveness for me and my transgressions.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:12 AM

You don't want an election, so we can be told to leave. You don't want us to stay, but ignore the UN rulings that we are the Occupying Power, and have responsibilities. You fail to answer my questions, and make personal insults instead of discussing the facts. You hide behind "guest" like a coward, and you have shown you have no understanding of much of anything.

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:17 AM

brucie, that prayer is a fine act of passive aggression if I've ever seen one. Congratulations on the lovely way you built the nasty right into your prayerful prose. Your genuineness and sincerety just warms me through and through.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:19 AM

Yeah beardedbruce, like is real tough when those who disagree with your opinion refuse to dance to your tune, ain't it?

Like I said about Homey...

Deal with it, and have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:21 AM

Thank you for your kind words, GUEST. Have a restful evening. Seems you'll never recognize peace because you appear not to know what it is. I don't hate you GUEST. I'd like to, but I don't. My problem is that I don't like you, either. There just ain't all that much to like. I hope we meet in better times when you have a name and we can talk instead of argue. Night, pal.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:48 AM

I have no problem recognizing peace when an olive branch is genuinely being offered, brucie. But that isn't what your little passive aggressive prayer was about at all, and we both know that, now don't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 01:58 AM

No sir, we do not. Only you do. You want peace, you got it. Who are you? Here's my hand. Now, where's yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: mg
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 02:29 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 10:14 AM

brucie, it's just a trolling thread. Don't let it get your goat. These troll threads just use up energy better devoted to something else!

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 10:33 AM

Yeah, there are trolls on the thread, but I'm still gonna send an e-mail. If it was me there, I'd like to know someone cared. I don't like this war, but then no one's asking me. (And you be careful what you say about my goat.)

Subject: RE: BS: Prayer request for Iraq troops and Iraqi
From: mg
Date: 24 Jan 05 - 12:50 PM

No. It is not a trolling thread. It is a legitimate effort to get the information out and pass on requests for prayers from those so inclined from an Army Chaplain about to put his life right on the line. There is nothing trolling whatsoever about this. I have the man's email and mailing address, but am not stupid enough to put it up in a place with as much animosity and hatred as here for obvious reasons. But there are also decent people who would either just ignore the request is they are not inclined to pray or are conflicted about who to pray for etc. Pray for them all and hope for the best outcome for them all. Or don't, whatever your preference. mg