Smoking at Folk Clubs

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:45 PM

I am hoping I will get the same response.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: The Unicorn Man
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:50 PM

Yes good luck, where is your Folk Club? If it's non smoking I might be able to come to it. I also put out polite no smoking please and thankyou signs.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: kendall
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 03:53 PM

There was an old character here who owned a gas station and sold such necessities as cigarettes and condoms. A guy from away came in, bought a pack of cigarettes, and started to light up. The old guy says, no smoking here please. The guy got irritated and said "I bought them here, why can't I smoke them here"?
Old fella says, "You by laxitive in the drug store, you don't shit on their floor."

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 04:24 PM

Martin
The Market Rasen Folk Club is at the Market Rasen Social Club, Serpentine Street, Lincolnshire.

Is Barton - Barton upon Humber? If so I plan to come along a week on Tuesday.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,earthling
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 06:03 PM

If it is being held in a Function Room I don't see why you will have any problem in your no smoking request.How could anyone seriously complain about a fresh atmos.

As someone pointed out it is a concert venue, albeit on a smaller scale, and in most concert venues not smoking is the norm.

I belong to the breed of smokers who annoy other smokers....can have one a week or one a month, but would not dream of lighting up anywhere that has a roof, I find that a good rule of thumb.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 06:13 PM

Johnny, I saw what it did to Jacqui. I still ain't for banning it.

Kendall, did they sell condoms too?

Martin from Barton, you said you might come to my party if it were in Barton. Be warned, smoking will be permitted. Just use the ashtrays.

Villan - no smoking, and auditions for floor singers! I guess you and I have different views about folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: The Unicorn Man
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 06:16 PM

Hi Villian no The Bull in Barton le Clay is in Bedfordshire and it's on a Monday. Luckly I like driving and singing.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: The Unicorn Man
Date: 04 Apr 04 - 06:19 PM

Hello Richard. Where is your party? I will bring some clothes pegs

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 03:09 AM

Richard if everybody had the same viewpoint as each other, then life would be so boring. So I ceratinly have no problems about you having a different point of view to me.

I am not a musician or have the desire to be. I am a listener. I am giving up my time FOC, to provide a folk club in a very rural market town with 3500 inhabitants. If the music is poor, then nobody will bother to come along to watch.

Let me just correct you on auditions.
I don't do auditions. I just ask anybody that would like to do a floorspot, to let me know in advance, so that I can allocate the time for them. I give them a straight 10 to 20 minute floorspot, depending on how they feel. All I ask is that they can perform in front of an audience and are capable of singing/playing for 20 minutes if required. If all the floorspots have been allocated, I offer them floorspots for the next available evening. I can't see anything wrong with that. My understanding from the artists, is they they thourougly enjoyed themselves. Incidentally so did the listeners. About 40 people attended the opening night, and at least half of them were listeners. The only way that I will get get people to listen is to provide reasonable artists.

I also have 2 floorspots for youngsters under 21. I have feelers into the schools, and as I speak, there are a couple of youngsters, being developed by their music teacher, so that they can play on the next night, which is April 23rd. I have no idea what they are going to sing or play. I don't ask those questions. All I ask is that they can play accoustic.

I have one person who has been playing for about a year and a half, who when he feels ready, will do a floorspot.

Finally, if somebody would like to perform, but would prefer to jam with somebody else, then I allow them to that. e.g. Diathi and Bloke in the corner. They did really well. I also had Oakly, Liam Robinson and two youngsters of 18 jamming together.

As to smoking, that is a very deeply divided issue. Again you run yours your way (I don't have any problems with that) and I will run mine my way.
Do you have children in your club? Do you have people with breathing problems? Do you have people who already have had cancer through smoking and are on reprieve? Do you want to see young people coming into the folk world and survive until they are well past retirement age?
All of these issues have to be taken into account when you stop smoking in the room. I happen to think that I am being unselfish in my decision. Are you?

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 03:15 AM

Martin, thats a shame that you live so far away. If ever you are up this way and would like a floorspot of 20 minutes (I assume you are an artist, not a listener), please let me know in advance.
If you for any reason just pop in on the spur of the moment, then I will do my best to try and accomodate you.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 03:30 AM

Aahh, the annual smoking thread...nice to see the old stalwarts still dusting up the old arguments and trotting them out for the yearly exercise!

A reluctant smoker of 35 years, I am trying to give up again, and I think I am close to it - one final push should do it. But irrespective of that, I would not smoke in a club, and I would prefer clubs to be non-smoking venues.

Why? Well, folks, the world has moved on, and we all know better now. These are not the 60's or 70's. Whether the dangers of secondary smoking are proven or not, is immaterial. I would not even want to risk having someone on my conscience. Plus, a smoke-free atmosphere is certainly better for performers and audience - try belting out the choruses of a few shanties in a smoky den, and see how your throat feels in the morning.

But more than that - I would not do it, just for the annoyance factor. It clearly does annoy/affect some people - more perhaps than are prepared to complain - and so, out of consideration alone:

Let's just not do it in the clubs.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 03:45 AM

HI Martin - you did post to the thread about my party    Summer House/Garden Session???.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:07 AM

It would be nice if "no smoking" spread to jazz and blues clubs. I've been pickled in other folk's smoke houses for 40 years and at its worst my sneezing drowns out the band!

RtS
(retaining the right to fart, however)

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:39 AM

Hey Roger, farting's good. Been known to drop the odd rasper myself every now and then. Farts don't stick to other people's hair and clothes or hang around the room for too long and, as far as I'm aware, no-one ever got cancer from passive farting.
Cheers old lad.
Johnny :0)

(Just attempting to lighten up a bit Les!)

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:54 AM

Strollin'
I hope you don't go round lighting up whilst you are farting. It would make your backside look like a bunsen burner.
Farts could clear the room out, and disrupt the evening. :-)

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:00 AM

Villan: You forget that there are a number of catters who think that "folk club" only means song circle and an audience is something that distracts from the singing.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 05:06 AM

Guest
Unfortunately that does seem to be the case.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: breezy
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 06:11 AM

Keep it up El Grek already your voice is clearer and stronger and I thought it was my imagination.

How about an anti-smoking shanty

Stick it on, peel it off

throw away--chesty cough

etc


Last night one of our members who had a jazz gig on Saturday, afterwards told the landlord that he wasnt going to do the next gigs because of the smoke in the pub.

And we are talking quality -cruise ship- artistes


Hence I prefer to play and organise venues that I can have influence over and most of the contracts for the full-time folk artistes that I engage include a non-smoking clause

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Jean Phillips
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 06:13 AM

I attend a number of folk clubs, some smoking, some non-smoking and I prefer the atmosphere of the non-smoking clubs by a country mile.

I go to the non-smoking clubs on a regular basis, but I visit the smoking clubs only when I really want to see a specific performer, so they lose my custom a lot of the time.

Smoking is now banned in theatres, cinemas and concert venues for the benefit of everyones health, so why not folk clubs? Breathing in other's stale smoke does put some people off attending some clubs as regularly as they'd like to, so is it too much to ask for smokers to nip outside, or go to the public bar to light up when they feel the need? That way everyone's happy. The smokers get their fix (after all, no one is asking them to stop, just to take their smoke away from the majority who don't want it) and the non-smokers enjoy the evening without being engulfed in a tobacco smoke cloud, and we can ALL enjoy the music.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 06:48 AM

This is an answer from one of the artists who attended the opening evening.

>I would like an honest answer as to how you would feel, if I
asked all smokers if they wouldn't mind having a quick drag whenever they liked, but outside the room. <
Answer
Tricky one this. Given the general move towards restricting smoking, I guess that most smokers are getting used to this so perhaps there would not be a problem. On the other hand, those who smoke regularly (I only have the occasional cigar, usually when I'm out for a drink) may well see this a soff putting - especially if , like many of us, they normally go to open pub sessions where smoking is allowed. I noticed that a fair few of the instrumentalists smoke (most of Cara for example).
Smoking at the bar, or at the back of the room might be the best option - then at least smokers don't have to leave the room and non-smokers and singers can sit at the front with out too much discomfort.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:48 AM

How about an anti-smoking shanty? Here's a couple of choruses - add verses to taste

Puff away you superkings
Puff away, drag way
Emphysema's all it brings
Cancer and heart failure

Farewell to my Marlboros and Rothmans
No more with a cig I'll be seen
I'm giving up smoking
You may think I'm joking
But you'll never see me with Rizlas green

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Midchuck
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 08:49 AM

Smoking in any public place - or in a private home if there are children there - is just plain wrong. If someone punches me in the nose, other than in self-defense, he goes to jail if there's a cop around. If he blows poison gas in my face, he claims I'm infringing on his rights if I complain. Pack of a******s.

Smoking in a place where someone is trying to sing for the enjoyment of other people who have paid to hear him/her, is wrong to several higher orders of magnitude. They're sabotaging the performer's gig as surely as if they set off a siren during the song.

Smoking tobacco has been described as the only manufactured product which, if used strictly according to the manufacturer's instructions, is fatal to the user. In some cases, that's a public service; but it's fatal to the other people in the vicinity, too.

Last summer we did a gig for a politician. When he went to do his speech, we'd already heard it, so we went outside to wait, and consume the free sodas and ice cream, so we could tear down when he was finished. A lady came out and asked if it was all right to smoke where we were. I said, sure, if you don't mind if I pick my nose and flick it at you. She went off in a huff. Seemed fair to me. I'd have been doing her lots less harm than she would me.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:19 AM

Well, I'd call that pompous and excessive, and the kind of attitude that makes it harder to get non-smoking policies accepted. When you're congregated outside I'd say it's fair enough to get the smokers to stand downwind.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:32 AM

I know this man, and believe me, he is anything but pompous. He speaks his mind.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 09:35 AM

Plenty of pompous people speak their mind. Still. if the

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: greg stephens
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:29 AM

Well, this is a well-rehearsed topic but I'll add my usual two-penn'orth. No, I dont think you should ask people's permission to smoke in a pub(or not in Enfgland anyway). Pubs are places where people go to drink and smoke if they so wish. If you dont like that, lobby for change, but until the change happens dont be obnoxious. In peoples' houses, work places etc, of course you should ask.
   Folk clubs: simple, make your own rules if its in a private room, and ask people to stick to them. People won't object, if they do, throw them down the stairs.
    But telling people to stop smoking in a pub is like asking people to stop shagging in a brothel. You may not approve, but let's face it, that's what the place is for. Of course, in the fullness of time qnd with appropriate legislation, brothels may turn into place where people go to read the Guardian and eat tofu-burgers. But till then...
    I speak as a non-smoker, but when I go up to the Jolly Porters for a pint I know many people there have gone to enjoy their cigarettes. I have no intention of asking them to stop. When parliament decides otherwise, so be it. And there will still be exhaust belching cars driving past the pub. Smoke stinks, but not as much as hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 10:42 AM

Actually it doesn't have to wait for the law - publicans can introduce no smoking policies, and some have. That proabbaly means thye have found that it paid off.

After all, in pretty well all pubs I use, smokers are outnumbered several times over by people who are not smoking.

Perhaps the Irish theme pubs could lead the way, and make the places a bit more authentically Irish.

But I'd not advise asking strangers in pubs to stop smoking, since it'sd be unlikely to work. If I was smoking in a pub, more expeically if noone else in the room was smoking, though I would see it as good manners to ask the people I was with if it was all right, and I would abide by their wishes.

But what really bugs me is when people put their fag down to smoulder away in the ash-tray, or even spiked on a guitar string. At least when it's secondhand smoke the worst of it has been filtered out by the smoker's lungs before it gets to you.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Betsy
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 03:02 PM

I'm a smoker - but if Villain says the Club's rules are No Smoking - then so be it and let's abide by that.
If there's another room to cater for we smokers then good – non-smokers can keep out if they wish.
If there isn't an alternative, - apart from standing outside on a Winter's night, I shall probably look for an alternative sort of evening.
I will definitely think twice about going into a public house where I am not allowed to smoke whilst I having a drink.
If pubs clubs can survive without smokers and cigarette sales - then the game is won.
If not, then a little tolerance and realigning of smoker's behaviour will need to be addressed.
I shall view with interest the very same situation in Ireland.
Just to wander …as many others have in this thread….
With all due respect to those who have lost someone with lung cancer, (my Mum and Dad died of the same), I have no desire to repeat this, but equally I have no desire to die healthy, which is also a possibility if some organisers turn a blind another group of people within their supporters.
Those who perhaps drink too much then drive home from folk nights put innocent smokers like me at serious risk from being knocked over.
Of course this last sentence is tongue in cheek - I'm going over the top and you know it - but it is not outwith the bounds of possibility.
It is this insidious practice of people, minding other people's business, groups mentally bullying other groups with their views, which make me view these prospects as oh so depressing ……………….
Finally don't forget these smokers are generally fond of a drink, and, if the Landlord / Licensee is not making "enough" money over the bar at your Folk night – you may soon end-up a non-smoking, non-drinking night folk night in the Church Hall or the Cub Hut or other . Do me a favour!!!!
How come no one has mentioned Hydrofluorocarbons-the strongest carciogenic found in domestic smoke - Barbcues . Separate thread anyone ??

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 03:26 PM

I'm a vegetarian (anti-barbecue) non-smoker!

(Giggle)

Still drive a car though - couldn't get to the blessed folk clubs without it.

Cheers
Sarah

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 03:56 PM

Betsy you will be pleased to know that I am going to try letting people smoke at the back of the room. If that works, then all the better.
Nuff said. :-)

Are you coming along then on April 23rd?

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:00 PM

Smoking while you're driving isn't a terribly good idea. Much better to have the full use of both hands

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 04:49 PM

He he.
I remember when i used to smoke a pipe. A sherlock holmes one.
I was driving along one day when I accidentally dropped my pipe on my lap. I coudn't do anything other than try to stop safely. That I did, with my trousers already on fire. I was very lucky I didn't burn my privates. I never smoked a pipe again. I also count myself very lucky that I didn't have a crash.
I laugh now but at the time I wasn't laughing.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:06 PM

Billy Connolly, among others, once said that saying non smokers can stay up the non smoking end of a room is like telling swimmers they can swim in the non-clorinated end of a swimming pool.
Sadly it's true. I've tried to cope with smoke and asthma for 30 years. I've tried everything and I've heard it all.
                                                       Joy

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Joybell
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:22 PM

A few practical points that I don't think have yet been covered are:

Putting smokers at the doors and windows ensures that the slightest breeze will blow their smoke INSIDE.

Air conditioners and fans spread smoke around.

A raised area, like a stage, will get more smoke because it drifts upwards.

People with smaller air passages, like women and children, are more greatly compromised by second-hand smoke. Joy

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: The Unicorn Man
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:28 PM

Just got in from another lovely non smoking event, hair is fine clothes don't stink and my throat feels happy, can't wait for the next one.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: breezy
Date: 05 Apr 04 - 07:36 PM

Villan

All the folk clubs I attend on a regular basis are non smoking in fact it was only Lancfranc who lit up on purpose the other week where they are encouraging it to be smoke free where I can remember smoke and I do attend alot of clubs.

Its the way to go, believe , you will attract more than you'll lose.

If I know its a smoker I'll only go if the money makes it worthwhile but I'll usually ask everyone to refrain from smoking even if the organiser doesnt.

Its in my own interest, sod it, if the smokers dont care, then neither do I if I offend them.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 02:50 AM

Its a real problem.

Its either no smoking, which I agree with, or I try firstly to see what happens if people who want to smoke, go and have a smoke at the far end of the room. They can at least still hear the music. The room is big enough to at least give it a try.
If that doesn't work, then it will be a no smoking venue.

At least I will have tried to accomodate the smokers.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:05 AM

This is a non-argument, folks...let's stub it out.

If I visit non-smoking friends, I don't smoke in their house. Even if they kindly bring out an ashtray for me - I want to leave pleasant memories, not smoke odour in their curtains and upholstery. And I go visit them again - because they are friends. I don't stop my visits for that reason.

Same with the clubs. I will visit, or not visit, based on the quality of the music, the craic, the company. Not based on whether it's smoking or not.

Sheesh... The rest is just dancing around the same old handbag.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 03:16 AM

A handbag with a bomb in it El Greko????
But you're correct, time to wind it down - we're going round and round the same old arguments. Those who want to smoke will never see it any other way, and they're too stubborn to be persuaded by the rest of us who are right!!!!!
Cheers Mate :0)
Johnny

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 04:22 AM

All in all a very good thread, but I agree time to end it.

Thank you to one and all for your input. Gratefully received.

It still doesn't make life easy, but compromise as much as possible is whats needed.

Bernie Taupin wrote Saturday Nights all right for Fighting, which I umderstand was about Market Rasen. All the mobs from other villages used to come to Market Rasen each Saturday and the night would end up in a glorious punch up. Doesn't happen anymore!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't like that to happen on Friday nights at the Market Rasen Folk Club. :-)

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: kendall
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 04:45 AM

At least, if it comes to a "punch up" the non smokers will last longer.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 05:08 AM

*huff* don't you *puff* believe it!

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 05:54 AM

snuff said...

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Phlegmb
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 07:27 AM

Breezy

Roy Castle's sainted arse. I understand from a friend involved in such matters that Mr Castle managed to pop his clogs without contributing his fair share to the common wealth. Cancer research would benefit more from us all paying our share rather than paying what we want into a collection tin. He made plenty money playing in clubs and he eventually paid the price - or so he said. So much fame -so little talent.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 07:45 AM

Don't go there! I had the pleasure (and it was indeed a pleasure) of working with Roy Castle many years ago, and he was an immense talent and a very gracious guy. I know nothing of his financial affairs, nor do I care, they have f**k-all to do with his talent or the circumstances of his death.
Johnny :0(

And for that matter, f**k all to do with this thread.
J

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Cllr
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:17 PM

I do not allow smoking in my club, I'm just glad I banned it while I was still a smoker, anyone who wants a fag goes into the bar I have had no complaints. Cllr

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 12:49 PM

Maybe I should stand there and start smoking, and then say that I am not going to smoke in the room, and if I want one, I will go outside and I expect everybody else who smokes to do the same.
They don't have to know I don't smoke. :-)

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Phlegmb
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 01:35 PM

Oh strollin johnny with that ability in the use of the anglo saxon language no wonder you thought Castle was talented.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Bentley
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 04:58 PM

I smoke myself,but at Bramley,I have a non-smking policy on a Featured Artist night.On other nights,I leave it to the visitors, but I don't smoke in the function room out of respect to the singers.

Subject: RE: Smoking at Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Apr 04 - 05:25 PM

Cllr and Bentley, I like your attitudes, you would make it easy for me.

When I started this thread, I didn't expect to see 100 posts, but we are there.
I posted the first and the 100th so that was good timing :-)