BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 01:35 PM

Our political stance on most matters boils-down to how much inequality we accept - I, frankly, find present levels (of which the monarchy is symbolic) revoloting.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: GUEST,grumpy
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 03:33 PM

If the monarchy disappeared tonight would our lives be any different tomorrow morning? I think not. I'd go for Brian Clough's head on the stamps of maybe Eddie Izzard's.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 03:48 PM

""Our political stance on most matters boils-down to how much inequality we accept - I, frankly, find present levels (of which the monarchy is symbolic) revoloting.""

I bet your attitude (and that of several others here) would bloody soon change if a hitherto unknown relative died and left you a mansion, a title and a couple of million quid.

That wouldn't be quite so ""revoloting"" I suspect.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Bainbo
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 04:16 PM

Concert's about to start, featuring Kylie Minogue, Robbie Williams, and Gary Barlow.

I think I'm with the Duke of Edinburgh on this. I might be inclined to suddely claim a debilitating illness as I was about to sit down for it, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 05:14 PM

"Revolting" sorry, Don. But you're also mistaken: I'm content with a council flat, "WalkaboutsVerse" as my title!, and I never buy lottery tickets - which I have described in such verse as "An Opium" http://walkaboutsverse.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/walkaboutsverse-138-of-230.html

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:50 PM

Look abroad, including that most ancient of republics acrossthe Atlantic, and consider whether there is any reason at all to imagine that getting rid of the hereditary monarchy would do anything whatsoever to make us a more equal society.

It's a pretty ridiculous system, true enough, but that's its best quality. One person at the heart of it who seems to be fully aware of this is that amiable eccentric Prince Charles, who generates such rage from so many people. It's something that seems to unite many ardent monarchists and fervent republicans.

I think Charles would make an enjoyable public figure as King. Prince William I fear would be rather a bore.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 12 - 06:54 PM

So, you would refuse an inheritance if it came your way? Pardon me if I find that less than credible.

I too ignore the lottery. Not doing it gives me no chance of winning, as opposed to doing it, which is roughly the same, and £1 per non chance seems over pricey.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 04:32 AM

"I bet your attitude (and that of several others here) would bloody soon change if a hitherto unknown relative died and left you a mansion, a title and a couple of million quid."

Not sure that it would change me all that much, Don. The couple of million quid would provide me with more choices - but I don't think that it would change my basic outlook on life. After all, what would I spend it on? I've reached a stage in my life where I begin to value possessions less and less. This, by the way, is not sanctimonious bullshit - it's what I really think. Until recently I had a reasonably well paid job (and no dependants} and many of the possessions that I acquired then have become a bit of an encumbrance now.

I'm retired now and the other day I was sat on the bus, idly watching the world go by, and was thinking that perhaps, at this stage in my life, I'm as rich as anyone needs to be. After all I've got reasonable health (for now, at least), I've got a roof over my head, enough money to live on, friends, interests, loads of free time (which allows me to gaze idly out of bus windows) and a free bus pass! I have had my share of disappointments in my life - but money wouldn't have put them right. I think that I'm pretty rich right now - and no-one really needs to be much richer.

Mind you, a constant theme, and a constant cause of concern, which I see whenever I look out of any sort of window, is the on-going destruction of my environment - and everyone else's environment. It is the blind pursuit of wealth which has led to this on-going and ceaseless destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:30 AM

Shimrod - you've more or less described my own attitudes at the moment. I have no mortgage or rent to pay, reasonable health, a modest pension which allows me to indulge my propensities for the odd guitar, old American railroad watches and bottles of wine. I've also got lots of free time and few worries other than hoping that life for my son and my grandchildren goes well in the future - and, like you, that the greedy bloody property developers don't get to concrete over the whole of Sussex...

I sat under the sun parasol in the back garden the other day, reading the paper, eating a Danish, drinking a coffee and enjoying the sunshine and the flowers waving in a light breeze. I thought to myself, "Well, this is what I worked 47 years for." Too bloody right, BUT - who needs more? I've never understood the need for acquiring masses of money, power and influence. What drives a man like, say, R. Murdoch to want to acquire more and more - all the world's newspapers, all the world's media?

A number of recent studies appear to show that the biggest cause of dissension in a country is not inequality but gross inequality, which we appear to be moving towards year by year. I'm with Richard in that a hereditary head of state, such as we have now, seems a reasonable figurehead to represent the country. But I prefer a monarchy in the Dutch style - one where Liz or Charlie could cycle off to the corner shop for a packet of fags and the paper - rather than one where huge amounts of wealth are involved. And if I get the usual argument that the Monarchy is worth its weight in tourism and exports, etc., I invariably reply, "Show me the balance sheet" - which no-one can. If people say that thousands of tourists come to London because of the manifestations of royalty, I reply that currently, by far the most popular tourist capital in Europe is Berlin.

And as for Charles becoming King - if he does so he'll have to stop his current proselytising and interfering in matters of government - unconstitutional as it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:57 AM

Will Fly and Shimrod, my feelings exactly! I have 'enough' and to me, that's all anyone can ask for or need. Folk who constantly feel envy, and want more, wouldn't be satisfied if they were given millions. Happiness is internal, not linked to acquiring wealth. To me, any surplus-to-requirements money I may have (not much I have to say!) goes to help a very poor and needy family in Ivory Coast, and I'm proud to share what I have. The Queen to me represents Stability and Continuity, two very important yet hard to define qualities essential to our national welfare and peace. Change and transience are not always desirable, they need brakes sometimes, and the Monarchy is there to apply them. (Just my view, I know there are those who detest the Institution.)

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:10 AM

This total guff about the royals bringing in tourist dough needs blowing out of the water once and for all. It is routinely parroted out as the received wisdom it truly is. It is so easy a thing to to say because it is entirely untestable, a bit like the existence of God. On the other hand, it isn't difficult to mutter fairly convincingly against it. For example, only one direct royal connection in the top 20 UK tourist attractions (Windsor Castle at a miserable no 17), and monarchless France pulling in almost three times as many tourists as the UK. If you really think tourists will stop coming if we did away with the royals, prove it!

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:11 AM

Not only that, getting tourists in is a bloody lousy argument for keeping the royals going in any case.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: BrendanB
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:39 AM

Something very disturbing has just happened to me. I read Steve Shaw's last two posts and found myself nodding in agreement! On a happier note we did our jubilee pub gig yesterday and sold out of CDs at the end, result! (mostly to a large group of Germans, apparently they were part of a choir touring over here, good taste the Germans).
Off to play at a barbecue in a couple of hours - and it has started to cloud over, absolutely typical and I blame the Royal Family.
I also agree completely with Shimrod, Will Fly and Eliza (this is getting very worrying).

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:45 AM

Well, we had a session at The Falcon in Bude, courtesy of Bude Folk Festival, last night, which might explain why my posts may seem shorter today...

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 07:02 AM

getting tourists in is a bloody lousy argument for keeping the royals going

Yes, that is no argument for keeping the monarchy.
It is just one of the counter arguments to complaints about the cost of it.

France has a few of advantages over UK for tourism.
UK is an island, is not on the route to anywhere else, and no Disney Land

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 07:29 AM

The UK has produced a lot more world-renowned serial killers than France has. And they make just as good a tourist attraction as royals. (The jobs have sometimes been combined, but Dennis Nilsen was a lot easier on the public purse than Henry VIII).

Jack the Ripper already has themed tours, but think of the other possibilities. Parades of white vans on Robert Black Day. Community garden- and cellar-digging parties to commemorate the Wests. A new dance introduced by celebrity singers for Bible John.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 08:30 AM

"So, you would refuse an inheritance if it came your way? Pardon me if I find that less than credible" (Don)...I'd use it to disseminate WalkaboutsVerse, which I believe to be the best way forward for humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 09:49 AM

Having just heard his congratulations, #bbcjubilee If Obama doesn't want us to become a democratic republic, then he is surely a hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Musket
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:23 AM

I note an air of "we" want this or "we" want that.

Not sure who "we" are, so I suppose "we" are not amused.

Back to the title, Wonderful Jubilee Celebrations, I watched most of the concert last night and really enjoyed it. Some people of "an age" had problem singing as they used to whilst others managed it fine. No matter, this was not about musical perfection on the night, it was about wallowing in nostalgia and I certainly did. Wish I had made it down there, as I did many years ago for Live Aid.

A friend pointed out that in order to be over 65 and still be able to sing well, the evidence seems to be that you are either Welsh or blind. I'll go with that.

20,000 on The Mall, 100,000 lining nearby parks, a few billion across the commonwealth watching on the goggle box. mmm.. Sad day for the Trots it appears. Democracy being the only system I would, could or will defend, it looks like you and your shoulder chips are Billy No Mates then.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:54 AM

"Democracy being the only system I would, could or will defend" - so you can't like monarchism, then, Ian.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:55 AM

Call me Mr Cynical, but there's all this starchy pomp 'n' ceremony - and a pop concert? Nothing to do at all, I suppose, with getting the next generation on board the royalist train...? God, how easily we are taken in!

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 11:39 AM

Ah Live Aid - I was in Pimlico Park London to see Tex Maniax in the afternoon, then to the Half Moon Putney in the evening to see The Clive Gregson Band - Clive Aid!!

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 11:42 AM

so you can't like monarchism, then, Ian
I am sure he does.
We have a monarchy, and as good a democracy as any anywhere in the world WW, so what ever is your point?

Nothing to do at all, I suppose, with getting the next generation on board the royalist train...? God, how easily we are taken in!
No. Just you Steve.
It was hardly what would be chosen to get youth on board.

You two are not making much of a case.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 12:22 PM

The "queen", Keith, obviously didn't get her job through examination or votes; to repeat, as it happens, she and Charles Windsor are quite good public speakers but, even if not so good, they'd inherit the job anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 12:59 PM

Yo, WAV - nice to see you back.

You know, I really hate our country; thousands of years of history & heritage & the place is a rubbish strewn carboot free-for all with people waving their crappy plastic flags as the Torys carve it all up for the rich.

Not much cause for jubilation.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 01:11 PM

""Mind you, a constant theme, and a constant cause of concern, which I see whenever I look out of any sort of window, is the on-going destruction of my environment - and everyone else's environment. It is the blind pursuit of wealth which has led to this on-going and ceaseless destruction.""

And you conflate the existence of the Royal Family with that blind pursuit?

Another good look around you would, if you were to open both eyes and mind, lead you to the conclusion that most of those seekers of wealth are of the "Loadsamoney" persuasion, being the people who were most involved in the late eighties boom and bust, the lunatic escalation in property values, etc.

And they my friend were mostly common as muck climbers from the bottom of the heap, not Eton and Harrow upper class, which does rather spoil the illusion, wouldn't you say?

Pretty much all of them who succeeded are now among the bankers (with a capital W) who put us in the current position.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 01:12 PM

Hi Sean: they are just looking at that issue on the Beeb's "One Show" - more material wealth here than the 50s, but many more, sadly, want to emigrate.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 01:14 PM

WAV, er...yes.
Thank you for explaining that.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Jim McLean
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 01:27 PM

According to reports in the Scotish papers today there were 60 street parties in Scotland with 20 Orange order parades funded by the Glasgow Labour council.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 01:48 PM

I especially loved the way, during this display of unquestioning arse-licking unemployed people were hired by a private security company, made to work unpaid and sleep under London Bridge and then in a swamp the day after.

60 glorious years? Fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 02:25 PM

Boobirds in full fly-

The entertainers not my cup of coffee, but apparently liked by the crowd.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 02:32 PM

...Last night's #bbcjubilee concert contained mostly foreign cultures - American pop and rock, and classical pieces from other European lands.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 03:26 PM

My best wishes and all around Red White and Blue felicitations to the great U of K and the Great Lady who has lived and done her duty to this day.

God Save the Queen
and perdition to her enemies!

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 03:38 PM

...did you used to watch "Lost in Space", Robomatic?

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:06 PM

60 glorious years huntin' shootin, fishin' and ridin' in vast estates that the rest of us hoi-polloi have to keep off. 60 glorious years "working", aka showing up in posh clothes and posh transport and doing a little wave and saying "Hellay, and what do you do?" 60 glorious years riding out (or floating above) every recession, war and political crisis with impunity. 60 glorious years on state benefits that millions could only dream of. 60 glorious years being washed, dressed, cooked for and having your arse gratefully wiped. Long may she shit over us!

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 05:16 PM

And while the House of Peers withhoulds its legislative hand
And noble statesmen do not itch
To interfere in matters which
They do not understand
As bright will shine Great Britian's rays
As in Queen Bess's glorious days
As bright will shine Great Britain't rays
As in Queen Bess's Glorious Days!!!

apologies for messing a bit with Sir Schwenk's lyric

my point, and I do have one, is that without some alternative to democracy, we've got nothing to compare democracy with and we may fall into a fool's paradise, thinking we've got it over thins like coronets 'n crowns. which maybe it's true but maybe it's not true all the time. After all Russia now has a President and a Prime Minister and I'd rather have good Queen Bess the Two.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:41 PM

There are so many cabals and crooks and operations in this society that rob us blind and exploit us and manipulate us with open contempt that it seems ridiculous to to direct ill-natured attention to what is essentially an aspect of entertainment, and one which is as essentially harmless as Morris Dancing - which of course also seems to drive some people into paroxysms of loathing.

As for the flag-waving, it all seemed very much in the mood and tradition of Dame Edna Everage urging us to wave our gladdies in the air...

And not a commercial sposor in sight - how unlike the Olympics looming up before us...

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 06:56 PM

Hmmm. Harmless, eh? Harmless in that privilege is perpetuated? A moot point there, I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 07:25 PM

It seems a shame that whenever a group of posters start a positive thread about anything on this forum, up jump the same group of miserable pissers and moaners, determined that nobody shall be allowed to enjoy anything without having to overcome their mixture of pure malicious ignorance and misery.

Making their points with inaccuracies, rumours and outright lies, and running a mile from anything approaching the true situation, they are the most obnoxious killjoys to be found anywhere.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 08:15 PM

Calm down, Don. It's only a bloody internet forum! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:10 PM

Well, you detractors might wanna go live somewhere the Crown doesn't protect yer ass. No democracy. No health care. No unions. No whatever. Don't forget to write and let us know how it's working out for you.

Seems to me that a lot of Brits like living in the British Isles. You lot that don't got any substance to tell us uneducated why it's a bad shake for youse? Seriously, why do you not like being a Brit?

And, yes, I mean that in a nice yet "WTF?" way. If you tell me that you, as a Brit, would be better off without the entity that holds the right to your property in lieu of taxes but provides you the security to freehold that land, well, yer just bitin yerself in the ass. Hope it tastes good if you bite your own ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: meself
Date: 05 Jun 12 - 10:31 PM

How much bad music has that poor woman had to suffer through in those sixty years? Right now I'm watching some not-particularly-talented bimbo jump around saying, 'I wanna F-U - I wanna F-U - I wanna F-U F-U funk!' Or something like that. Pretty classy, anyway. At least I can sigh and roll my eyes, and change the channel - she has to pretend she's enjoying it ....

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 04:27 AM

No democracy. No health care. No unions. No whatever.

Sounds like the Britain I know and...

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 04:52 AM

Jealousy is a very ugly emotion, and it turns its sufferers into ugly people.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 04:54 AM

I should like to know precisely how the Crown protects democracy (the royals are the epitome of unelected, hereditary privilege), health care (they use only the finest private clinics in the kingdom, all at our expense) or unions (almost every administration during her reign has sought, and often succeeded in that quest, to curtail the role of trade unions).

As for whether it feels good to be a Brit, well we have a diverse and beautiful country. We also have an utterly vile imperialist history. So expect no simple answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 05:07 AM

bit late to this party -though started a related thread about prog -rock, monarchy and psychology to which you are all invited.

my one loyal to the monarchy act so far was to attempt to drink 25 pints for the '77 jubilee.(no, i got lost way before that) but all my adult life i have had accusations of being unpatriotic, commie -back to russia etc. had the discussion many times but always felt i was more patriotic than the folk i argued with (though never able to convince anyone!)

for me patriotism is great music, great writing, great beer and pubs, festivals, a radical spirit,ken loach, punk, west coast of scotland and the lake district, john benson, john martyn, john cooper clarke, joe strumer, curlews, good manners and many, many etcs.

life is too short to pay any attention or approval to the usual soul-destroying indicators of patriotism-monarchy, military, conservatives, capitalism and church -unless it is to have a go at them, in the hope that -come the glorious day- i can add a modern bloodless revolution to the things i can feel proud about in my country.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 05:17 AM

An atheistic Amen to that!

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 06:43 AM

"for me patriotism is great music, great writing, great beer and pubs, festivals, a radical spirit,ken loach, punk, west coast of scotland and the lake district, john benson, john martyn, john cooper clarke, joe strumer, curlews, good manners and many, many etcs"

It's possible to love all of those, yet not be an ugly person eaten alive with jealousy of those whose lot in life puts them better-placed than oneself. There are a great many who, like me, are living testimony to that fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: Stu
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 06:51 AM

"Well, you detractors might wanna go live somewhere the Crown doesn't protect yer ass. No democracy. No health care. No unions. No whatever. Don't forget to write and let us know how it's working out for you."

The Crown doesn't provide any go those things. We pay for some of them, some of them come from the suffering of ordinary working folk that stood up to the system and democracy in the UK today means corporate governance without accountability. The Queen has no power, she's a distraction and her son Chaz is a man with outright disdain for the democratic process, which he ignores when it suits him (as in the Chelsea Barracks debacle). This idiot, who prefers magic to science will be king one day, may the old gods help us.

Whilst the masses have been waving flags and celebrating a thousand years of their ancestors getting shat on for the dubious benefits of monarchs, god and the glory of empire (i.e. invading other countries and killing people), over in Chantilly, the 1% mutual wankathon for the rich and powerful Bilderberg has signed off on intervention in Syria, is re-jigging the internet to their own ends (Google it) and done all this and fuck knows what else without ever bringing 'democracy' into the process to muddle things.

You might gain some insight from listening to the people who actually live here. There's a long history here in the UK of republicanism and ridiculing the monarch, her family and government and long may it continue. Not everyone automatically defers to authority figures, some have a mind of their own and many of the most original thinkers of these islands have been iconoclasts. Thank fuck.

The 1000 ships on the Thames was good though, especially the little ships from Dunkirk and the narrow boats.

Subject: RE: BS: Wonderful Jubilee celebrations
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 06 Jun 12 - 06:55 AM

certainly not eaten alive with jealousy of anyone in the establishment. i feel sorry for all of us who are taken in by the lies and distortions of those who rule us, lie to us and steal from us. to participate in the experience they have designed for us, to subjugate and patronise us - is it to part of the problem. it's often a jolly and apparently harmless experience, we may choose to accept it all but at least think about why it is and try to work out what is worth while for yourself -
(altogether now) - WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS! and can be free citizens if we choose.