BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:01 PM

the rise in antisemitism has in Britain has been put down largely to the swing to the right in Britain brought about by Brexit

"The rise in antisemitism in Britain is a "core part of far-Left ideology," according to a new report released in the UK.

The report, which the Daily Mail referred to as "alarming, was published by the volunteer-led charity the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism. And though it comes on the heels of a recent series of scandals surrounding the open expression of anti-Jewish sentiment in the Labour Party, its data refers to 2015 – during which, it revealed, there was a 50 percent increase in violent attacks against Jews from the previous year."

New Report Calls Rise in British Antisemitism 'Core Part of Far-Left Ideology'

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:13 PM

Steve, The EUMC definition of anti semitism is given in addition to, not instead of, the rather brief "hate crime" definition.
That is the message in parenthesis that you quote.

" The EUMC working definition helps to explain some of the characteristics that may be present in antisemitic hate crime. These include circumstances that amount to hate crimes and those that are likely to be non-crime hate incidents."

Of course the EUMC definition is endorsed. Why else is it quoted?
You should pay particular attention to their statement immediately following the EUMC definition,
"Such manifestations(of anti Semitism) could also target the State of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivist. "

You have repeatedly shown that you are unable to discern anti-Semitism, most recently that of Tonge, when it is clear and obvious to the rest of the world.
It is your definition that is defunct!

Do you find it acceptable for Jim to post very dubious videos purporting to show a tiny number of Jews behaving despicably, and use them to claim that that is what Israel is like?
He wants us to believe such behaviour is typical of Jews and not just a tiny minority, if any.
OK or anti semitic?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:14 PM

the rise in antisemitism has in Britain has been put down largely to the swing to the right in Britain brought about by Brexit


"All was not so quiet on the university front, where the campus was besieged by hordes of over-righteous über-zealots with the sense of humor of a post-Thatcher coal mine—long closed and largely forgotten. Decrying all logic, the radical left jumped into bed with the radical Islamic societies—figuratively, of course, the literal was left to the rest of us—and their causes célèbres being the demonization of Israel and the quest to expel Jewish societies from the student body."

Britain's Anti-Semitism Isn't Limited to the Radical Left

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:15 PM

The accusation is made by Gideon Falter who is an ac#tive supporter of the Israeli military activity against the Palestinians - particularly the last murderous incursion into Gaza
We know how many civilians were massacred by the Israelis in 2014 during 'Operation Protective Edge' and it is hardly surprising that somebody supporting that massacre should be outraged at non-existent antisemitism when he considers criticism of Israel antisemitic   
He still fails to describe the Antisemitsm so we can assume that he means 'opposition to Israeli militarism'
Jim Carroll

"Gideon Falter, chairman of the Campaign Against Antisemitism UK (CAA), initially became involved with the nascent group because of his outrage at British media during Operation Protective Edge. The British media, he said, held Israel to impossible standards, thereby fueling antisemitism. A group of like-minded people soon organized, and Falter was the chief organizer of the CAA's rally outside the Royal Courts of Justice calling for zero tolerance law enforcement against antisemitism. The British government already has taken notice of CAA, and Home Secretary Theresa May has commented on the results of its Antisemitism Barometer survey."

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:19 PM

From Wikipedia:

"Contemporary antisemitism in Britain has become more complex and multifaceted, evolving its own vocabulary[4] and imagery.[5] It is perpetrated principally by the far-left, far-right and Islamists, whose distinct forms of antisemitism have gradually merged with one another.[6]"

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:31 PM

Jim,
the rise in antisemitism has in Britain has been put down largely to the swing to the right in Britain brought about by Brexit

No Jim. The reported doubling in incidents long predates Brexit.

Telegraph on the report,
"Attacks spiked during the summer months(2014), around the time of the Israeli action in Gaza, but the report notes that incidents were already above average levels in the early half of the year."

"The figures are likely to provide only a snapshot. But separate figures from Scotland Yard show a similar pattern, with reports of anti-Semitic hate crime more than doubling but Islamophobic attacks also rising significantly"

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:38 PM

The CAA came into being in 2014 - Falter became its chairman that year and, whatever its original policy, has it into yet another Israeli propaganda group.
Jim Carroll "
By the way -he vidoes are genuine until anybody proves them otherwise - so far we have one taker - who has denied every piece of evidence against Israel to date
Do you find it acceptable for Jim to post very dubious videos
"Oh bring your witness love, and I'll never deny you" -as the song goes
Evidence he is now trying to suppress
MAIL on LIne
NEW YORK TIMES
TIMES of ISRAEL
Childcare
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:44 PM

Kenan Malik, writing in the New York Times, makes some salient points regarding the left and anti-Semitism:

"Yet neither the cynicism nor the hypocrisy should distract us from the problem of anti-Semitism — not just in the Labour Party, but on the political left more generally. It is not that the left is packed with anti-Semites; rather, too many among them have been willing to accommodate bigotry.

This acquiescence is rooted in the changing character of the left in recent years. Anti-Semitism used to be a problem primarily of the right. It wasn't that the left had a totally clean bill of health — there is a history of left-wing anti-Semitism — but its firm foundation of universal values and egalitarian principles established a proud tradition of fighting bigotry against Jews.

In recent decades, however, much of the left has retreated from these commitments."

The British Left's 'Jewish Problem'

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 01:58 PM

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing repeatedly and getting the same mal-result. Over two weeks in and no change in anyone's position, an exemplar of this if ever there was one. And this is not the first time these threads have gone on seemingly forever.

You may now continue, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 02:08 PM

"Kenan Malik"
Malik's "interesting point is that it has become difficult to distinguish between criticism and antisemitism, which is entirely due to the fact that the Israeli regime are using the Jewish People as a whole as human shields against condemnation of their policies by making criticism of their actions "antisemitic"- which is, of course, antisemitic in the extreme.
In these circumstances, no workable definition of the term can ever be agreed as, to do so would breach every human rights law in existence.
You cannot make an accusation of prejudice an excuse for mass-murder.
Malik carefully links accusations of antisemitism to criticism of Israeli policies.
He is right, of course, it is wrong to blame the Jewish People for Israel's crimes - but if Israel is going to insist on it, it is hardly surprising that others follow suit.
None of these atrocity deniers have ever responded to the fact that these accusations against the Labour Party surfaced only weeks after Labour reiterated its support for B.D.S.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 02:18 PM

The EUMC "working definition" was reproduced in full on the EUMC website but never even "endorsed or adopted" by the EUMC, the EU or by anyone else connected, and for very good reasons. It was unceremoniously ditched by their successor in 2013, dropped like a hot potato, and quite right too. Just because you reproduce something on a website it doesn't mean you've endorsed it or adopted it. If the College of Policing wanted to endorse it or adopt it they would have said so. They are hardly pusillanimous about such things, are they? You can't get this right just like you can't get anything right. You, then your poodle bobad, doing his brainless copycat thing, both referred to the body as "the Police College" (he did a similar thing the other day when he reproduced somebody else's tweet verbatim, pretending it was his own thought). Well there are police colleges in the country, there to train people as members of the police force. The College of Policing is a professional association, nothing to do with training new bobbies, you clown. You didn't know the difference, did you, yet here you are making unsupported claims about their adopted policies. Busted, disgusting, can't be trusted.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 02:22 PM

Should read "criticism of Israel" of course
"distinguish between criticism and antisemitism,"
"no change in anyone's position,"
These things are never about changing anybody's position JoSC
This particular 'thing' is about putting right deliberately circulated misinformation
Your views on the argument would be far more welcome than your sniping from the sideline.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 02:39 PM

Steve,
If the College of Policing wanted to endorse it or adopt it they would have said so.

They did. Their website clearly endorses it, however much you deny it.

Jim, two of your links are about the wedding party video.
It shows about a hundred or more guests at a wedding party.
We are told that ONE of them "APPEARS TO BE" behaving badly.
We are told he appears to be stabbing a photograph of a dead child, but the photo is just a blur and no knife is visible.

At worst we have one person behaving badly. How is that evidence of what Israel is like and how Jews behave? It is racist to generalise like that.

The third link is about a small right wing counter demo to a much larger demonstration. A minority.
Some are singing nasty things. A minority of a minority. We are told that their fellow demonstrators were trying to stop them.

How is that evidence of what Israel is like and how Jews behave? It is racist to generalise like that.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 02:44 PM

More importantly, Bubo and Professor, what does "Having your head wedged up your arse" mean?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 02:49 PM

I have demonstrated to you that the College of Policing have not said anywhere that you can show me that they have either endorsed or adopted that confounded definition that you stick to like shit to a blanket. Your parroting out that yes they have, unsupported, is just ridiculous. Why, you didn't even know what the body in question was. How are we then supposed to believe that you're clever enough to analyse their policies? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 03:14 PM

GregtrF,

" what does "Having your head wedged up your arse" mean?"

That you are GregtrF.



Seems pretty obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 03:34 PM

Steve,
I have demonstrated to you that the College of Policing have not said anywhere that

No. You just quoted a bracketed statement claiming that it dismissed the whole thing!
It id not.

They say,
" The EUMC working definition helps to explain some of the characteristics that may be present in antisemitic hate crime."

That is an endorsement, and they go on to quote the whole thing.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 03:43 PM

Keith, methinks Shaw is getting worried that the police may use the criteria outlined in the EUMC definitions to prosecute anti-Semites for hate crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 03:46 PM

Absolute rubbish. When you endorse something you say "I endorse this." Believe it or not, I also can pick good bits out of that definition. But I do not endorse it. And neither does the College of Policing (have you sorted out what it is yet? Don't forget to tell bobad when you do!😂)

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 03:50 PM

There was only one EUMC definition, bobad, and the only people who ever "adopted" it were hopeful hangers-on, never the body that spawned the EUMC, never the EUMC itself, never its successor body. It was stillborn, bobad. Never ratified. Ditched in 2013. Get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 03:59 PM

More importantly, Bubo and Professor, what does "Having your head wedged up your arse" mean?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 04:06 PM

GregtrF,

" what does "Having your head wedged up your arse" mean?"

That you are GregtrF.



Seems pretty obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: bobad
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 04:12 PM

IHRA definition of anti semitism adopted by 31 member countries

To guide IHRA in its work, the following examples may serve as illustrations:

Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish
collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be
regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it
is often used to blame Jews for "why things go wrong." It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms
and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the
religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:


Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology
or an extremist view of religion.

Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other
societal institutions.

Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a
single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.

Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the
Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices
during World War II (the Holocaust).

Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews
worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence
of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other
democratic nation.

Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing
Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 04:44 PM

No problem with most of that Bobad - you apparently have though - doesn't that make you antisemitic?
". However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."
"Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."
Every time someone criticises Israel, you accuse them of being antisemitic, therefore you are holding Jews collectively responsible for the actions of the State of Israel.
These definitions were drawn up before Israel became a fascist state - nowdays it it common to read comparisons between the current Israeli regime a\nd the Nazis - from Gentiles and Jews alike - including Israelis; heads heads of Mossad, Army Generals, Rabbis, Holocaust Survivors and their families - it is now common to read accusations camparint Israel to a fascist state, incuding in the Israeli press.
If a state behaves as the Nazis did - comparisons are inevitable
"We are told that ONE of them "APPEARS TO BE" behaving badly."
You select one line from one link Keith and totally ignore every other link that makes no bones about what was taking place
here is no question of what was happening there - you chose the onne where the wording is ambiguous, but in fact describes what the others say specifically
You blame the Jews - I blame those who have incited those people - just as I did when Enoch Powell incited the East End Dockers to demonstrate against immigrants   
Yours in the antisemitism not mine
It slots in perfectly with your other displays of antisemitism

Subject: RE: BS: Ireland-What happened?
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 12:57 PM
Jim Carroll
"When the news of the extermination of the Jews reached Britain one Tory Minister described it "the invention of whingeing Yids"."
Keith
"Who was it?
What is your source?
Silly songs don't count, or I could post "Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr Hitler" as proof to the contrary!"

One of the "silly songs" referred to.

Land of dope and Jewry
Land that once was free
All the Jew boys praise thee
Whilst they plunder thee
Poorer still and poorer
Grow thy true-born sons
Faster still and faster
They're sent to feed the guns.

Land of Jewish finance
Fooled by Jewish lies
In press and books and movies
While our birthright dies
Longer still and longer
Is the rope they get
But—by the God of battles
'Twill serve to hang them yet.

Another
"Onward, conscript army…you have naught to fear.
Isaac Hore-Belisha …will lead you from the rear.
Clad by Monty Burton [Jewish clothes- and uniform maker],… fed on Lyons' pies [Jewish restaurant and tea shop chain];
Fight for Yiddish conquests …while the Briton dies.
Onward, conscript army, marching on to war.
Fight and die for Jewry… as we did before.
.
You must die for Poland…pay your debt of thanks
All your benefactors…international banks.
So place against the Germans…beneath the Jewish star
Onward toward the shambles…Goy cattle that you are!
"Poor, persecuted Jewry"…will finance war again.
Forward for the slaughter… for the Hebrews' gain.

Driven toward the shambles…like a flock of sheep
By lying propaganda…by their plans laid deep.
So for Israel Moses Sieff…you must fight and die
That Marks & Spencer's [department store] neon sign…May still light up our sky.
Forward, on to Poland…10 million men shall fall,
That Judah's reign of terror…May hold us all in thrall."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 04:50 PM

That was the last response to you I am going to make Keith
You want to continue your dishonest denials, at least go and find a "real person" who sell his his books in "real bookshops".
Responding to your denials is like trying to feed a severely disabled child
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 08:57 AM

Jim,
You select one line from one link Keith and totally ignore every other link that makes no bones about what was taking place

The journalist on each link can only see what we see.
You can not identify what the photo is of or see a knife.
Even if they do show what is claimed, it is racist to take the actions of a few and generalise to all Jews.
There are a few sickos in all populations.
You were wrong and racist to say that it shows what Israel is like.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 09:11 AM

Steve,
When you endorse something you say "I endorse this."

Absolute rubbish.
They endorse it by saying that they use it.

"However, for those seeking a definition of antisemitism, the UK's College of Policing does include a working definition of antisemitism in their guidance to police forces in the UK. The full guidance is available from their website here    and the definition is reproduced in full here:"

There follows the full EUMC definition.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism



The College of Policing describe EUMC definition's aims and how it came about, but do not add that it is defunct because it isn't.

They say how it is used in policing.

They print the EUMC definition in full and certainly do not say it should be ignored or even any part of it.

http://www.college.police.uk/What-we-do/Support/Equality/Documents/Hate-Crime-Operational-Guidance.pdf#search=antisemitism

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 09:44 AM

"The journalist on each link can only see what we see."
The Jurnalist who put it up entitled the film - he spoke Hebrew - you don't (I assume)
"it is racist to take the actions of a few and generalise to all Jews."
To do what exactly?
There are many examples of persecutio of Arabs by Israelis - including beating to death burning down homes.
Thousands took to the streets of Tel Aviv demanding the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians - not a million miles away from the Justice Minister's and other politicians' demanding similar.
Inciting mobs to display their hatred is common to all societies - it happened in pre-war Britain and later when Powell climbed on the rostrum with his 'Rivers of Blood' obscenity.
You want to see decent people in their thousands whipped into a frenzy of hate by demagogues - skip though news items from Belfast and Derry at any point in the 20th century
TRY THIS FOR SIZE
Hate-inflamed incursions into Gaza two years ago killed 2,500 and injured 17,000 Palestinians, 1,492 of them were civilians.
I blame the hate-merchants - you blame the ordinary "Jews" and totally absolve those who incited them
That is racism at its most extreme.
You history on this forum i one of support for desppots and human rights criminals
You describe the Irish as a hate-filled, brainwashed nation - you describe British Muslims as culturally-implanted potential perverts, you blamed the Belfast riouits which took place a few years ago - not on the Unionist fanatics and their sectarian marches, but on "children".
In your world, Travellers have no right to follow their born-to lifestyle, you have no problem with Governments selling weapons to mass murderers, and you see nothing wrong with British Antisemitism at a time when Jews were about to be herded into gas chambers.
And you describe yourself a Christian!
I thank Christ for my atheism!!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 12:09 PM

Jim, this is about anti Semitism, not Israel.
I do like discussing Israel with you, so please start a thread or reopen one of the very many existing ones.

It is racist to seize on the actions of a few individuals and use them to demonize a whole ethnic group.
That is what you tried to do with your videos, which do not unequivocally show what you claim anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 12:13 PM

Jim, none of the personal stuff you accuse me of is true.
When you resort to lying personal smears, it means you have no real arguments to put up.
You might as well put up a white flag.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 01:41 PM

"Jim, none of the personal stuff you accuse me of is true."
I think there are enough people around to know yur track record but I'mm happy to pull it up if you like
Christ almighty- your "brainwashed to hate Britain" accusation was only a few months ago
I've lost count of the number of times you've confirmed your "implant" claim.
It's all there Keith - I'll make a start of putting it together tonight
How stupidly dishonest can you get?
This one from a few posts up to be going on with

ubject: RE: BS: Ireland-What happened?
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 16 Dec 10 - 12:57 PM
Jim Carroll
"When the news of the extermination of the Jews reached Britain one Tory Minister described it "the invention of whingeing Yids"."
Keith
"Who was it?
What is your source?
Silly songs don't count, or I could post "Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr Hitler" as proof to the contrary!"

One of the "silly songs" referred to.

Land of dope and Jewry
Land that once was free
All the Jew boys praise thee
Whilst they plunder thee
Poorer still and poorer
Grow thy true-born sons
Faster still and faster
They're sent to feed the guns.

Land of Jewish finance
Fooled by Jewish lies
In press and books and movies
While our birthright dies
Longer still and longer
Is the rope they get
But—by the God of battles
'Twill serve to hang them yet.

Another
"Onward, conscript army…you have naught to fear.
Isaac Hore-Belisha …will lead you from the rear.
Clad by Monty Burton [Jewish clothes- and uniform maker],… fed on Lyons' pies [Jewish restaurant and tea shop chain];
Fight for Yiddish conquests …while the Briton dies.
Onward, conscript army, marching on to war.
Fight and die for Jewry… as we did before.
.
You must die for Poland…pay your debt of thanks
All your benefactors…international banks.
So place against the Germans…beneath the Jewish star
Onward toward the shambles…Goy cattle that you are!
"Poor, persecuted Jewry"…will finance war again.
Forward for the slaughter… for the Hebrews' gain.

Driven toward the shambles…like a flock of sheep
By lying propaganda…by their plans laid deep.
So for Israel Moses Sieff…you must fight and die
That Marks & Spencer's [department store] neon sign…May still light up our sky.
Forward, on to Poland…10 million men shall fall,
That Judah's reign of terror…May hold us all in thrall."
"Jim, this is about anti Semitism, not Israel."
You really do have to be joking!!!!!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 01:49 PM

And this

Subject: RE: BS: Irish Potato Blight- Cause found
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 12 Mar 14 - 07:13 AM

"YOU HAVE HAD NOT ONE IOTO OF SUPPORT"

Not surprising when generations of school children have been brainwashed to believe Britain should be blamed, keeping hate alive.

Irish schools at least since 1922 and NY State schools since 1996 by decree.
Massachusetts?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:21 PM

Jim Carroll:
I searched this thread for 'silly songs' and only came up with your two posts. It is not clear to me what you are trying to say by including what are most definitely anti-semitic song lyrics. Are you implying they were posted by someone else elsewhere or are you trying to out-offend someone?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:57 PM

Jim, instead of debating the issues you dredge up years old posts to try to smear me.
All the posts are completely reasonable when looked at in the context of their thread, for instance I quoted Irish historians who stated that Irish schools brainwashed kids.

Drop the personal stuff and stick to the current issues, if you can.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 03:40 PM

Guess this Lapid guy is a Anti-Semite, eh?

" Yair Lapid said that Israel must find a way to separate from the Palestinians, as soon as possible, with the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. With continued Israeli control over millions of Palestinians who do not have voting rights, "we will either lose the Jewish majority or the democratic nature of Israel or both.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 03:45 PM

"Jim, instead of debating the issues you dredge up years old posts to try to smear me
Finished here Keith - you have lied consistently and have been found out
You have just denied making these statements, now you are trying to justify them again - you are an unqualified mess with no respect for yourself, not off anybody else on this forum - foul up every thread you touch by trying to "win" something.
Yur latest effort is a prime example of your behaviour.
Go away and leve these subjects to those who are genuinely interested in them.
I really don't think there is anything more to say, but I have no doubt that you'll say it anyway
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 11:27 AM

I do not lie Jim.
You always resort to misrepresenting years old posts when you are losing the current debate.

Your reliance on anti-Israel propaganda sites has made a liar of you.
You pass on lies as if they were facts without questioning or checking.
Just four weeks ago you said, "Benny Morris's' admitting to burying the massacre victim," referring to statements supposedly made in his book.
I have that book in front of me. He has never said any such thing. It was just lying propaganda.

On this thread you have disgraced yourself.
It is racist to seize on the actions of a few individuals and use them to demonize a whole ethnic group.
That is what you tried to do with your videos, which do not unequivocally show what you claim anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 12:41 PM

Jim, why not acknowledge that Israeli Jews are mostly good and decent people, and that all ethnic groups have a minority of nasties.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 10:30 PM

Keith - I once asked on an earlier thread if you were a jew...
and you got all affronted and huffy like I had deeply offended you..

"How dare you punkfolkrocker ask my ethnic identity and imply i am a jew..."


Well.. as you may remember i am 1/4 jew by blood...

and owing to your lack of honest disclosure possibly more jew than you...

so why are youi still bangiong on in defense of an obviously corrupt and despotic national government...???

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 10:33 PM

Jim Carroll:

You remind me a bit of the joke of the Irishman who sees a pair of brawlers on the sidewalk and asks "Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?"

You almost, almost, I say, seem to be saying "I dare one of you yids to call me an anti-semite!"

I, for one, am not calling you nor anyone else on this thread, an anti-semite. I think several people have revealed much about themselves by their manner of posting, and that's just fine.

The field of anti-semitism after all, has a very long history with its own developmental roots and branches. Anti-Semitism itself is its own religion. I am tempted to expand on that but it would take this thread beyond its Original Post.

As far as the Labour Party is concerned I think some party members were quoted saying some ignorant and wrong things, and were properly brought up on them. Were their reactions satisfactory? That is a matter of opinion.

I generally prefer to hear people out and speak to their words, then see how intransigent they are. I try to allow for people to have the capacity to learn and grow. I hope I have that capacity for myself. Real anti-semites are all around, there are web-sites of them. But to allow oneself to be afraid of them or become like them is to lose. Americans in general are NOT anti-semitic and it is important to me to never go into a conversation with such an assumption. The English have a long history of anti-semitism which is its own variety. As I mentioned above, the English had it in for Jews, but not to outright genocide, and that matters ("An anti-semite is someone who hates Jews more than absolutely necessary").

In this forum it appears as if some pre-existing history between members is being thrashed out, and I am not going to get involved with it. I think there have been some informative posts submitted, even though I disagree with 'em, it's important to know how people's minds appear to think.

I do not think I've got more to contribute to this thread and I am grateful to all posters. See you on the "What does anti-Zionism mean?" thread!

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 06:33 AM

PFR, according to Bing and Google, I never made that statement.
I would not take offence at being mistaken for a Jew or even if that was implied.
I do object to any suggestion that a contributor's ethnic origin is a relevant factor in such a debate.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 07:54 AM

The issue is, robomatic, that both Jim and I have argued that antisemitism, apart from attacking Jews because they are Jews, also includes putting Jewish people in harm's way. One major way of doing that is to smear the whole of the Jewish people with the outrages perpetrated by the Israeli regime. That's what happens when you try to extend the definition to include any criticism of Israel, which bobad and Keith are hell-bent on doing. Call it ironic, call it unintended consequences, but that's how it is. Unfortunately, unless they recognise this and pull back from it, it makes them no less antisemitic than the scumbags who express their hatred in the more explicitly-bigoted fashion. But they just aren't listening. If we can't agree that unfettered and unconditional criticism of what that regime does is allowed without our being branded antisemitic, then the definition is degraded and useless. And no, I don't have to criticise everybody else at the same time in the same breath for doing the same things. I can do that, and do do that, that at different times.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 08:27 AM

There is little point in pursuing this Steve and PFR
It is a fight against dishonest, antisemitic trolls who defend Israeli extremist right-wing extremism by blaming the Jews - plain and simple.
Mac ha had his answer one-hundredfold - from Keith, and from Bobad and his fellow trolls - all of whom seem to have left the former to wallow in his own swill.
I suggest it is best id we do the same - Robo is right - it has become a private fight.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 11:34 AM

PFR, according to Bing and Google, I never made that statement.

That's Bing Crosby and Barney Google, eh Professor?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 12:22 PM

Greg, no. I was thinking of the well known search engines, neither of which cold find that statement on Mudcat.

Jim, antisemitic trolls who defend Israeli extremist right-wing extremism by blaming the Jews

A made up accusation. No-one here has ever done that.
Your anti-Semitic racism on this thread is all too real.
You used the unproven misdeeds of a few individuals to smear all the Jews in Israel.

Steve,
That's what happens when you try to extend the definition to include any criticism of Israel, which bobad and Keith are hell-bent on doing.

We have not done that. We have merely pointed out that the definition you repudiate is in fact the most commonly used definition, not least by UK and US Police.
It explains why you deny racism even in acknowledged anti-semites such as Tonge, and self confessed anti-Semitism as from Shah.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 06:14 PM

You'd be way better off sticking with Bing and Barney, Professor.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 06:25 AM

Steve asserted that "the pro-Israel lobby" controls our governments, especially the US government which he claims it has in a "cast iron grip.

Despite being asked repeatedly, he refuses to tell us how a mere lobby group achieves this.
His reticence is perhaps because his explanation would be anti-Semitic.
If it is not Steve, why will you not tell us?

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 06:27 AM

No. You bore me. Clear off.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 07:39 AM

I am just asking you to justify your claim.
That is a reasonable request. Why make it if you can not justify it?

This one is of particular consequence because it does suggest an ant-semitic trope like the Jews controlling the banks and the media.

Just tell us what leverage they have on our governments Steve.
You claimed it.
I hope I am not right about anti-Semitism, but you must have a reason for keeping quiet.

Subject: RE: BS: What does 'anti-semitism' mean?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 07:41 AM

Shhhh....