BS: Death

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 10:41 PM

The bells of hell
       Go ting-a-ling-a-ling
       For you but not for me.
       Oh death, where is thy sting-a-ling-a-ling
       Or grave thy victory?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:39 PM

Um, Death: I'm glad you're not scheduled to be here yet, because I'm not quite ready to receive you ...

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:25 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,DEATH
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:25 PM

HELLO.   MY EARS ARE BURNING.   ALLEGORICALLY. I AM NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HERE YET. HOW SHALL WE AMUSE OURSELVES UNTIL MY DUTY IS TO BE DONE?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 05:16 PM

Thank you, Rap' - I was in need of good dose of closure ... I feel better now.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: MBSLynne
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:51 PM

Actually Amos, it's quite interesting to note how many people become sarcastic and antagonistic whne this sort of thing is discussed. I wonder why?

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 11:54 AM

Well, when I saw this Thing with its proboscis rammed into the poor man's mouth, making obscene noises as it obviously was sucking the life out of him, I hit it and beat it with the crowbar. Fortunately, I missed the man most of the time, but I sure made that critter suffer! I know he was a nice guy because he said he now had an excuse not to learn the "triplely damned things" and his wife would now let him live somewhere in the house besides the basement, his friends would speak to him again, and the City Council of St. Louis would let him come into town to shop, etc.

Turned out he was FROM St. Louis, which was 200 miles south. Missouri State Law at the time forbid bagpipers from coming any closer to St. Louis upon pain of "grewsome death by accordion."

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 11:19 AM

Speaking of cemeteries ....

A Grave Situation - © Claude Morris

When I staggered away from my favourite pub,
The night was dark and still,
And I thought I'd take a short cut home,
That led over Cemetery Hill.
Now I'm not a hero as everyone knows,
And I have no reckless trends,
But ghosts and the like leave me cold, as it were,
And spirits and I are old friends.

I wobbled along through the cemetery gates,
Begging my legs to behave,
And everything went pretty well, so I thought,
Till I fell down a newly-dug grave.
For a moment I thought I had landed in hell,
And ended my earthly career.
I sniffed like a hound for the sulphurous fumes,
Expecting Old Nick to appear.

But reason returned and I staggered erect,
My prison so dark, to survey,
And tested my bones for a fracture or two,
But everything functioned O.K.
I made a feeble attempt to get out,
But it needed no more than a glance
To tell me that in my condition,
I hadn't the ghost of a chance.

I reckoned I'd have a lay-off for awhile,
And when I woke sober and fit,
I'd surely come up with a first-class idea,
That would get me up out of the pit.
Just then I could hear fast oncoming steps,
That seemed too good to be true,
But ere I could 'Coo-ee' or offer advice,
In the grave there were suddenly two!

It happened he fell in the grave's other end,
With no one to cushion his fall;
But he rose like a shot with a high-pitched yelp,
And attempted to scale up the wall.
This chap was at pains to be up and away,
As the capers he cut, plainly told;
He jumped and he scrambled and jumped again,
But his fingers and toes wouldn't hold.

I hadn't yet spoken - I'd hardly a chance,
The way he cavorted about,
And I had to admire the way that he fought
To sever all ties and get out.
Of course, he believed there was nobody near -
He thought he was there all alone,
And I got the idea it had entered his head
That the grave was becoming his own.

I felt a bit sad for the poor little guy,
Now acting a little distraught,
And I thought he'd relax if I gave him the drum,
That he wasn't alone, as he thought.
So I walked up behind him and tapped on his back
As he paused for another wild bid;
'You CAN'T make it mate,' I breathed in his ear —
But by the Lord Harry, he DID!

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 09:31 AM

Finish the story - what did you do with the crowbar?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 07 - 09:29 AM

I was setting a stone in a small country Missouri cemetery once and had some troubles. I finally get it level and set right, but the sun was setting and I still had a 50 mile drive back to the shop. I'd been alone in the cemetery all day, but then I heard the most terrible noise. I can't describe the sound, but the hairs on the back of my neck stood straight up. I picked up a crowbar and went to investigate. And there, behind a yew tree, I found...a guy who was trying to learn the bagpipes. He didn't know there was anyone around and his wife wouldn't let him try to learn at home because "it scared the chickens." Other than this small vice he was pretty nice guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,Cake
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 10:13 AM

But every shroud has a silver lining...

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 06:40 PM

And there ain't no pockets in a shroud....

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:57 PM

I ain't never heard a hearse sing...

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:43 PM

...But none I think do there embrace.        
Now therefore, while the youthful hew        
Sits on thy skin like morning [dew]        
And while thy willing Soul transpires        
At every pore with instant Fires,        
Now let us sport us while we may;        
And now, like am'rous birds of prey,        
Rather at once our Time devour,        
Than languish in his slow-chapt pow'r.        
Let us roll all our Strength, and all        
Our sweetness, up into one Ball:        
And tear our Pleasures with rough strife,        
Thorough the Iron gates of Life.        
Thus, though we cannot make our Sun        
Stand still, yet we will make him run.

                -- Andrew Marvell, "To His Coy Mistress."

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:46 PM

One of my favorite quotes

The grave is a fine and private place.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:36 PM

Well, K, I have no idea where your sarcasm or antagonsim comes from; all I know is that the institute was founded by a retried astronaut and is reported tobe adherign to rigorous protocols. Haven't been there myself. HEre's anexcerpt from their web site:

"The vision for creating the Institute of Noetic Sciences came in 1971. Nations throughout the world had galvanized around the exciting frontier of space exploration. The potential for scientific understanding of our world seemed unlimited to a naval air captain named Edgar Mitchell. He was a pragmatic young test pilot, engineer and scientist; a mission to the moon on Apollo 14 was his "dream come true." Space exploration symbolized for Dr Mitchell what it did for his nation as a whole—technological triumph of historical proportions, unprecedented mastery of the world in which we live, and extraordinary potentials for new discoveries.

But it was the trip home that Mitchell recalls most. Sitting in the cramped cabin of the space capsule, he saw planet Earth floating freely in the vastness of space. He was engulfed by a profound sense of universal connectedness—an epiphany. In Mitchell's own words: "The presence of divinity became almost palpable, and I knew that life in the universe was not just an accident based on random processes. . . . The knowledge came to me directly."

Mitchell faced a critical challenge. As a physical scientist, he had grown accustomed to directing his attention to the objective world "out there." But the experience that came to him in space led him to a startling hypothesis: Perhaps reality is more complex, subtle, and inexorably mysterious than conventional science had led him to believe. Perhaps a deeper understanding of consciousness (inner space) could lead to a new and expanded view of reality in which objective and subjective, outer and inner, are understood as co-equal aspects of the miracle and mystery of being.

After his safe return "home," Mitchell sought out others who likewise felt the need for an expanded, more inclusive view of reality. They resolved to explore the inner world of human experience with the same rigor and critical thinking that made it possible for Apollo 14 to journey to the moon and back. In 1973, this small group of explorers founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences—derived from the Greek word nous, meaning something close to "intuitive ways of knowing." "


What is it you find un-credible about them? Specifically. And why?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:26 PM

Joshua Bell? The violinist? Didn't he predict that if he played in a subway station, he would be ignored? And it came true?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:16 PM

J. S. Bell.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,Keinstein
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:49 AM

The "Institute for Noetic Sciences" oy! I'll believe it when someone credible replicates the experiment.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:29 AM

I had a similar experience when my mom passed on, Rapaire. I knew the hospital had called my sister, as she called me before she left for there. After alerting my other siblings, I went into meditation asking for help for both my mom and my sister as she was the only one who lived where mom was. We were four hours away by car. While meditating, I *saw* my mom in hospital with her family beckoning to her, her mom and pop, the brother who died in high school and whom she missed so much and her other siblings. I saw mom reach out to them and I *told* her it was okay, we would be alright, all of her children. At that moment I *knew* she had died and I noted the time. My sister's call, shortly after, comfirmed what I knew.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Amos
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:28 AM

An interesting experiment conducted lately at the Institute for Noetic Sciences: a series of subjects observe screens on which there will be displayed either a pleasant image or a painful image. The image to be shown is chosen by random generation.

A high percentage of people -- statistically significant -- would start blinking faster (an expected response when viewing a painful image) when the painful images were presented. But they would routinely start to do so BEFORE the image was shown and even before the random generator had selected the image.

I don't have the hard numbers; the information is from an interviewer who was there last week.

The implication of this experiment is profound: that knowledge may be non-local in time and space and only made to appear local through the maintenance of individual filters or decisions to act as though it were.

This implication argues that knwoing is not, in the final analysis, a biochemical re-arrangement, but merely produces biochemical sequelae, much as intending to communicate (during a cell phone conversation, for example) produces electromagnetic sequelae. The ideation behind the communication is not necessarily an electromagnetic event.

Rapaire's remote knowing, mentioned above, is anecdotal, but the funny thing is that at a guess 70 or 80 poeple out of 100 will probably have some story of similar phenomena.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 09:46 AM

Here's a few things I'll toss in:

1. Back when I set tombstones it wasn't a big deal in the cemeteries. Sure, it could be hotter'n...blazes...but overall it was a nice, quite job. And talking to the people I met was nice; they were curious about the work. There was no feeling of "haunting" or "creepiness." Except in one: the Jewish cemetery in town. THERE both my brother (who followed me in the job) and I felt a definite senses of "finish up and get out because you don't belong here." Apart from that there was nothing at all different between that cemetery and many others.

2. When my mother died, my youngest brother was with her. He knew she'd gone before the nurses noticed the instruments and he met my brother and sister coming from the "waiting room" area because they, too, knew Mom was gone. But here's the odd part: I was living in Ohio, a 14 hour drive away, and I awakened and told my wife that Mom was dead before the phone call came. And no, it's not a case of post hoc rememberance for we remarked on it at the time; in fact, I said to my brother who called, "Yes, I know." For some reason this has never surprised us.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:01 AM

I've seen people moving and breathing after their "soul" has left them. My former good friend Dave had a heart attack and suffered massive, irreversible brain damage. What's left is certainly no longer Dave- although he can speak, he utters nothing but automatic commonplaces. He has no discernible interest in the world around him, and if you don't prompt him, he never initiates a transaction.

Memory's Ghost, by Philip J. Hilts, is a very good book to read on this subject- it concerns a young man whose hippocampus had been deliberately removed in an attempt to cure his epilepsy. Although he lived many years after that, his only knowledge was of the period prior to the operation, and the few seconds preceding the preesent moment.

Many people here want the soul to be a tangible, detectable thing, but I believe that it is a process of the brain, like the software of a computer (I'm not saying it is exactly like current computer software). Have you tried weighing your computer before and after installing software? Probably no, you know that there will not be a difference, as it is merely a rearrangement of states of magnetic domains, or electrons moved to different places in logic gates.

The brain of course is dynamic, and grows and shrinks physically, but the "soul" is the rearrangement of states of the organ, and can grow, shrink or depart completely without any detectable change other than in the behaviour of the whole organism.

So I'm quite happy to talk about the soul, though I would not normally choose to, as it is so easily misinterpreted- during life, it has all the attributes of the soul of religious belief, including temptation, possession and even a guardian angel- but these are all generated within or acquired as memes from without. As a process of the nervous system, it has no existence independently of the organism.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: rock chick
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 05:38 PM

Having seen two very close people draw their last breath from my experience I can say that once the soul has left the body all you see is an empty shell. This is a very strange experience to encounter, I truly believe once you die our sprit/ soul moves on somewhere and the body that once was host to that sprit /soul is just an empty shell.

rc

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:58 AM

You mean - Morris dancing!? Next I suppose you're going to tell me they play more accordians than harps ...

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:56 AM

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

"Do they know how to dance?"

More importantly, is it Cotswold, Border or Northwest?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: BanjoRay
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:39 AM

Surgeons don't "know" when people die on the operating table. All they can do is look at the signs - the pulse, the instruments, the body temperature, the breath etc. When experience tells them that any further resuscitation is likely to be useless then the theatre staff will agree that the time has come to stop. No magic departures or golden c(h)ords.
I've attempted to resuscitate a guy who dropped in the street (I had to push aside a crowd who just looked down at the guy, doing nothing). I couldn't feel a pulse, but that means nothing - pulses are often hard to find. He wasn't breathing so I tried the kiss of life, and chest compression to no avail. The ambulance arrived and they picked him up and carried him off. I didn't know whether he was dead. I never found out whether I'd helped - I rang the hospital, but they wouldn't tell me anything.
Somebody'd also stolen my shopping while I was trying to help the guy.
That wouldn't stop me doing it again, though - this life is all that we know we have. Anything else is conjecture based on very dubious evidence - read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins to find out how much bollocks has been said and thought over the centuries by people with no evidence.
There's nothing wrong with death - I've been dead for billions of years before being born, and I don't remember a thing about it. When I die I have no reason to believe I'll know anything about that either. Neither will you...
So have some fun and forget about it.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:03 AM

We spoken of death here a lot, though maybe not in this way. This will be hard for me. Thanks for the opportunity to vent, thanks for the therapy.

One morning as I climbed from bed the celtic cross that I had worn on a silver chain around my neck suddenly fell off and hit the floor. I thought it weird but simply picked it up and put it on my dresser. A few minutes later my mother telephoned to say that Dad had died. Dad, a clergyman, had worn a similar cross much of his life. Deeper meaning? I don't know.

A day or two later I saw Dad's body at the funeral home (we and he had refused to have the body touched except to have him robed in his alb, representing the only thing he felt he could leave this world with that he hadn't entered it with) and since the body had been kept cold...well, HE just wasn't there. No presence. No casket or coffin, no preparation of the body, just a trip to wherever to be cremated...HE was long since departed.

I was at Mum's side when she passed away, and with her body for a couple of hours, but it was real obvious that when she died the body had changed and that as with Dad, the body stopped having any real significance to me. No presence. Photographs have more life, perhaps for the memories attached, perhaps psychologically...maybe photos do take some of the soul...In any event, it didn't and doesn't matter to me what happens to the body except that it not burden us with its disposal. The ashes of my parents and my sister were put in their favourite water where at least symbolically their bodies can reside forever, their souls departed. I want my ashes to be put there too.

I never saw my sister after she died, but in my last visit with her she seemed to want to escape her cancer riddled body. She wasn't able to speak, but her eyes were wild with intent to escape the drugs and, I believe, this world. She was the most vibrant of people in life but it was over for her and she knew it. I can't describe how much I miss her, but in the end her death was mercy.

How happy I am to live in the photographic age where we can support our memories with pictures of happiness...and maybe retain a glimpse of their souls.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Nessie
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 08:24 AM

My father's last words were 'That was nice soup' before he quietly slumped over with a heart attack (nothing to do with my mother's cooking!). Whilst waiting for the ambulance she noticed the cat's eyes suddenly go as large as saucers and it's hair stand on end before backing out of the room. That's when she realised Dad had slipped away.
I've only witnessed the death of small squeaky or fluttery things rescued from the cat, but it's unmistakeable when the life leaves them. Like KT says, it's in the eyes, as if a switch has been turned off.
I'd accepted that you just 'know' when something is dead without giving it any thought, so I've found this thread interesting Lynne, death being such a taboo subject normally.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Partridge
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 06:07 AM

Do they know how to dance?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 02:22 PM

But then, meself, we have to know too the size of the average angel.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 12:41 PM

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

A meaningless question if we don't know the size of the pin. Are we talking about one of those little pins that populate brand-new cheap-sale button-down shirts, or one of those rather larger ones that fix loose edges of the firmament to the fabric of the cosmos?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 11:56 AM

How much does a bucket of air weigh? If there is a difference between the weight of a live person and the weight of that person just died my inclination would be to believe inflated lungs and pathways weigh more than deflated ones.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? *G*

Big Mick, keeping in mind that you have a L O N G way to travel, agreed!

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 12:28 AM

Beings (sometimes known as "souls") can be in a wide spectrum of states. In the sorrier end of that spectrum they can get to acting very much like material mass does, as a result of too many pushme-pullyou adventures, overwhelms, omissions and commissions with blame or guilt attached, and so on. And they exert quite a lot of pressure just by directing energuy when they are in good shape. So it wouldn't surprise me to see a couple of ounces difference at the moment of departure.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: ragdall
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:43 PM

I held my cat as he was "put to sleep". It's impossible not to notice a big difference between the animal in sleep and in death. Theological implications aside, I think it is a result of the Autonomic Nervous System shutting down. Even in sleep, the body is "functioning". In death it is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:29 PM

Ebbie, m'luv, if I don't leave before you, I will sing at your gathering. But you got to come sing at mine if'n I split first. Deal?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:02 PM

"It is possible that it [the soul] does exert mass."

I thought the priest or minister did that . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: KT
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:59 PM

right, Ebbie. Or love?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 12:03 PM

I see no reason to think that a soul has weight. How heavy is a thought?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Grab
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:54 AM

A bit of an analogy - where I live, the "scientific" claim was long that there are no cougars hereabouts (a claim since modified or rescinded, I believe)...

Fair nuff. But the point of "scientific" claims is that they're open to disproval - in your example, by cougar scat, claw and tooth marks on dead animals, video cameras in likely places, or reports of sightings by people with sufficient experience to know what they're seeing. The "electromechanical" hypothesis for awareness (or whatever you choose to call it) is open to disproval once the structures and operating mechanisms in the brain are understood. If there isn't a way that this could create awareness, this hypothesis fails.

The problem with the "soul" hypothesis is that by definition it's unprovable. Some philosophies claim provability, notably psychics who claim to be able to contact the dead. To date they're short on provable successes. And in fact, if anyone *does* prove the existence of souls and the existence (or non-existence) of an afterlife, every major religion will be defunct overnight, because religion requires faith, not proof.

That's why it's called the last great adventure. If you *know* there's life after death, your only question is what it's going to be like. If you don't even know whether it exists, it really is the unknown. And I'm pretty sure even most strongly-religious people still have the question at the back of their minds - the nagging feeling you get before an abseil of "is this rope going to hold me?"

But I'm with Lynne on the subject of death. It doesn't scare me, but I hope I don't suffer (and that those dear to me don't suffer). We've got living wills to try to prevent this.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: JennyO
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:10 AM

Yep, I'm in. Sounds like a very worthy enterprise, meself.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:08 AM

Hahahah...your association of classes (pedophiles and Democrats) is highly suspect, chum. But aside from that, it strikes me that there is no reason to assume the soul has mass per se. It is possible that it does exert mass.

But. BTW, the original observations that concluded there was a definite mass (equivalent IIRC to a couple of ounces weight) to the soul was not undertaken fraudulently. But it was done in the nineteenth century, and with poor scientific controls, so the data is in effect worthless. But that is a very different thing.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:07 AM

Um ... yeah ... I think I'd rather see the funding directed to the research I've recommended on another thread, on the relative merits of beer-from-a-bottle as opposed to beer-from-a-glass ... Anyone with me?

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,Keinstein
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:02 AM

The weight loss at death story is nothing more than that- a myth. Though "evidence" complete with references has been manufactured by those with an axe to grind. But, if Lynne is right, and animals show a similar qualitative change at death, it is something that is easily tested. We could set up a closed system of a chamber containing an animal, and a dose of lethal gas connected via a valve.

The animal should for preference be one that can be expected to have a significant mass of soul. We would expect human souls to be heavier, pro rata, than those of rats, say, but those animals with "nearly human" characteristics should maximize the effect. Let us choose dogs- perhaps Labradors that "understand every word" you say.

The system is weighed while the animal is alive, then the valve is opened. As we have only transferred mass from one part of the closed system to another, any weight loss must be due to the incorporeal soul. As animal souls are assumed to be very light compared to human, the weighing system must be as accurate as possible, and to ensure a significant result, the experiment should be repeated many times.

Two controls can be set up to eliminate spuriae: a chamber with pure air instead of lethal gas, and a chamber with lethal gas but an already dead dog (which could be re- used from a previous run of the experiment).

If a null result is obtained, it could be taken as meaning that animals have no souls, or that animal souls have no mass. In which case the only option is to repeat the preocedure using humans. Perhaps pedophiles, Democrats or Boston Red Sox supporters would be considered acceptably disposable.

It may sound cruel, but as the existence or otherwise of the soul has been the cause of much conflict, a definitive answer to at least this aspect would be in the long term advantageous.

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,Noddy
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 09:36 AM

I can wait a bit longer yet....I hope.....

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 07:42 AM

I don't know ... I like these story-book endings as much as anybody, but I don't think anyone should count on a charming death - some last words of wisdom and resignation, slipping quietly away from the family that surrounds the bed and into the arms of angels (to the sound of a silver chord). Seems to me that for an awful lot of people, there's much misery and suffering at the end of life. (And it's not their fault).

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: mouldy
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 05:24 AM

I was helping my ailing mother to walk to the toilet, when she dropped dead in my arms. I knew she was dead, even though the kids and I went through the procedures of CPR and calling the ambulance.

It wasn't long after everyone left her in peace that the subtle change was noticed. As has been said before: nobody home. The ambulance crew said that you could nearly always see a change shortly after death.

As regards fear of dying - what's the use of being scared: it's the one thing we're all sure of! With me it's not so much the dying, but not knowing the how or the when.
My recently departed husband held no fear of dying, only of becoming incapacitated. He wasn't that bothered about the "when" either, as far as I could tell.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: MBSLynne
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 04:55 AM

Yes Ebbie...the music you will be accompanied by will obviously be the silver chord!

Little Hawk, I knew if I chucked something like this amongst Mudcatters they'd come up with some good stuff!

I'm not afraid of dying, just of any pain beforehand. My gt Uncle, aged 87, went shopping, came home, vacuumed their flat, said to his wife "I feel really tired", sat down in a chair and went to sleep and that was it.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 01:13 AM

I was with my father when he died. He was being monitored by loads of machines that watched his blood pressure, heart rate, oxygen levels ad infinitum..........as he slowly departed all these indicaters of life just stopped. And so did he, it was as if he just stepped away.

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: Death
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 12:06 AM

I think the degree of sentience is quite significant, Janie. Good point.

There has been a lot of great stuff on this thread so far.