BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 03:33 PM

Laurel, you know I'm in Wyoming, and can't get to CA. What can I do to help with the animals? Anything? Is it too early to send money? (probably is my guess)

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 03:04 PM

Have they called these folks yet?

Supertanker Team:

Sam White
Vice President of Marketing & Sales
TEL: [phone]
[e-mail]

Supertanker Media Contacts:

Jim Baynes
Supertanker Sales Manager
TEL: [phone]
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 02:46 PM

That turning is what has me worried, as well. It's light breezes only here at work, but up where the vortexes of flame meet the hills, it could be a proper bellows. Fingers crossed.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 02:21 PM

The winds are lessening and thought to be turning. Here's where it gets dicey. When the wind is apt to shift quickly it's tough to predict fire behavior, and it's under these conditions that crews get hurt.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: open mike
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 01:41 PM

for those who have propane...LPG...it would still be adviseable to turn off the tank, I believe the problem comes when turning back on, to be sure of all pilot lights being correctly lit...

also we often advise folks to keep the electricity on, esp. if they
have a pump that requires electric to run. we usually try to use the home owner's water to fill our tanks if we are doing structure protection.

today i saw a plea for help evacuationg animals from a sanctuary/barn.
i wonder how they came out...i think this message was from tuesday morn. this was on the freecycle list..

If anyone can go and help Animal Acres evacuate animals from Gentle
Barn or if anyone can take in some animals in their back yards
(temporarily of course) PLEASE call Susie at 661-313-8040. We then
need lots and lots of people to help with the evacuated animals as
they are taken to Animal Acres! We then need lots and lots of people
to help with the evacuated animals as they are taken to Animal
Acres! So please, please, please -- call everybody you know to go
DIRECTLY to ANIMAL ACRES to meet and unload these frightened animals
that will be arriving from Gentle Barn. Iif you don't have a trailer
or a truck, just head to Animal Acres, and await the animals! ANIMAL
ACRES 14 North to Red Rover Mine Rd exit Follow curve, and turn
LEFT onto Ward Rd (one block's distance) Turn LEFT at bottom of Ward
Rd (one block's distance) onto Escondido Canyon Road. PLEASE FORWARD
AND CROSSPOST TO ANYONE WHO CAN HELP IN CALIFORNIA LORRI BAUSTON
(Animal Acres) JUST CALLED BECAUSE GENTLE BARN NEEDS ANOTHER TRAILER
THIS VERY SECOND! The grounds are now on fire and there are 3-4
cows who cannot be evacuated. We need as many trailers and trucks
as possible at Gentle Barn now! The flames are closing in. The
horses are frightened, and Lorri is stating she's not sure all the
animals can be evacuated in time, so PLEASE BRING TRAILERS AND
TRUCKS THERE RIGHT NOW! GENTLE BARN 15825 Sierra Hwy 14 North to
Sand Canyon Road Turn LEFT (west) until it ends (at Sierra Hwy)
Turn RIGHT (north) Go about 1/4 mile. Gentle Barn is on LEFT
Alternate Route: 14 North If anyone can go and help Animal Ccres
evacuate animals from Gentle Barn or if anyone can take in some
animals in their back yards (temporarily of course) PLEASE call
Susie at 661-313-8040. We then need lots and lots of people to help
with the evacuated animals as they are taken to Animal Acres! So
please, please, please -- call everybody you know to go DIRECTLY to
ANIMAL ACRES to meet and unload these frightened animals that will
be arriving from Gentle Barn. Iif you don't have a trailer or a
truck, just head to Animal Acres, and await the animals! ANIMAL
ACRES 14 North to Red Rover Mine Rd exit Follow curve, and turn
LEFT onto Ward Rd (one block's distance) Turn LEFT at bottom of Ward
Rd (one block's distance) onto Escondido Canyon Road See Animal
Acres on LEFT -- first driveway Park out of the way of the incoming
trailers and trucks, and just wait, please. If the 14 is closed
heading up to Animal Acres, find your way north using Sierra Hwy,
Escondido Canyon Road, or however else you can figure out If the 14
is closed heading up to Animal Acres, find your way north using
Sierra Hwy, Escondido Canyon Road, or however else you can figure
out. I'm not there, so cannot tell you accurately of any road
closures, so please understand. Try calling the L.A. County Sheriff'
Dept or the CHP. THANK YOU!

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:39 PM

Thank you, Sir Swanno. Count on a case of Guinness for your lads when I am next in your area.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:39 PM

I heard that the general wind speeds is lessening day by day, and that many fires are staying in the ground instead of being flashed thru treetops and throwing embers for a mile. I sure hope so....

Best wishes to Dave's boys and all the rest of the firefighters.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:25 PM

Just heard that my boys are assigned and on the line in Poway on the Witch Fire. They'll do their best it keep it from reaching you, Amos.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:21 PM

Good guess, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:06 PM

Reverse 911 is a system that was installed county wide afrter the Cedar fires; it enables a robot to dial every phone in its register for a certain area and recite a message. In this case, the message is "Evacuate your home now." It can be tuned to lists by area so it is usually limited to those geographical regions that are at risk.

The "leave the gas on" is contrary to traditional teachings on the subject, but is promulgated as a request by SDG&E. One reason is that to turn it back on, after the danger is passed, requires a trained person. Another, I believe, is that they prefer to turn off whole blocks or areas at once if necessary, so they can control the pressurizarization when they do turn it back on. There may be other technical factors I am not aware of, but that's my best guess.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:49 AM

I'm also curious about that advice that people should leave the gas on if they have to evacuate. I thought the gas in the home was supposed to be turned off. And I confess that I'm not sure how to do that in my home.

Also, does "reverse 9-1-1 calls" mean dialing 1-1-9?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:46 AM

1. "Leave the gas on" is real advice from SDG&E. The reason is that they would rather manage it themselves, since turning the gas back on requires an SDGE person or qualified plumber to do it and there is some issue regarding pressure gradients. I believe they can also manage a whole sub-net at once.

2. The National Guard is being deployed especially in helping with logistics, evac, and some firefighting. Obviously more would be better.

3. Maybe Bush can get caught in an updraft or sompn. But, I have to add, he made an early promise to Arnold to provide all needed help, and we have had tons of supplies provided by the Navy in cots and food for evacuees, plus a number of military water bombers.

4. Radio stations, AM and FM have been constant helpful sources of updates, manning their posts day and night. When KPBS lost their transmitter tower to the fire, another station even leant them bandwidth to keep on broadcasting. The dynamics of mutual help and support shown in this county in response to this catastrophe has been heartwarming.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:45 AM

The gas company in Dan Diego has informed its customers that it will attend to gas lines that need to be shut off.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:33 AM

The Lt. Gov of California had nothing but scorn for Bush and the proposed "fly over".

leave the gas on... was that a typo or real advice

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:30 AM

That'll get things straightened out real soon.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:23 AM

Perspective

1 in every 300 citizens of the United States have been evacuated or displaced by this fire.

questions:

Why leave the gas on when you leave?

Would the National Guard be of any help in CA rather than overseas?

Have clear channel AM radio stations been of great public service?




sad but true:

George W Bush is now on his way to survey the fire.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:59 AM

Other updates can be found at http://www.sdcountyemergency.com/.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:56 AM

I've never heard of reverse 9-1-1 calls before. Interesting. Makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:49 AM

There actually have been five or six fires including children of the two major ones, Witch Creek in the north and Harris Ranch in the south.

They have not of course had time to do a lot of forensic study. The belief is that high winds knocked down a power line which sparked the southern one. Uncertain as to the northern one. There has been some discussion of arson on various channels, especially as regards a small local fire in San Ysidro.

However, all the discussion is speculative as far as I have heard.

Latest updates: "10:24-07 5:26 a.m. BIRCH HILL EVACUATIONS: Mandatory evacuation Reverse 9-1-1 calls have been sent to 167 residents in Birch Hill near Palomar Mountain . Residents should go to the Temecula Community Recreation Center at 30875 Rancho Vista Road in Temecula

10-24-07 3:51 a.m. DE LUZ EVACUATIONS:   The Sheriff's Department has activated reverse 9-1-1 calls to alert the residents of De Luz of a mandatory evacuation. De Luz is north of Camp Pendleton . Residents are advised to evacuate on De Luz / Murrieta Road north or Sandia Creek Drive north toward Riverside County . "



A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:35 AM

Thanks for the link, Dave. I have family in La Mesa and El Cajon. Safe so far, but things change so very quickly. One family is literally across the street from a large undeveloped park area. These Google maps are such an improvement on the news on used to be able to get, even a few years ago, about fires. It must certainly take some of the strain off of the phone systems for people to look it up themselves. I bet the cell towers are being worked as hard as they've ever worked, though.

You never completely "get over" the years you spend fighting fires. The adrenalin starts up a little and I swear I can smell the grass and other vegetation burning with some of the images coming out of there. We're just getting into grass fire danger here in North Texas (we've had lots of rain this year, so when the lush grass dries there is a lot to burn, and it goes up in a hurry).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:03 AM

From Dave's link:

"Witch Fire
Witch Creek Area East of Ramona
San Diego County

This fire has burned 196,420 acres and is one percent contained. 500 homes, 100 commercial properties, and 50 outbuildings have been destroyed. 250 homes, 75 commercial properties and 50 outbuildings have been damaged. 5,000 residences, 1,500 commercial properties, and 300 outbuildings are currently threatened. Mandatory evacuations are in place for the communities of Scripps Ranch, Poway, Rancho Bernardo, Valley Center, San Marcos, and Rancho Santa Fe. Twelve firefighters have been injured on this fire. A CAL FIRE Incident Command Team is in command of this incident with 1,492 firefighters assigned. Wildcat Canyon is closed. Highway 67 is closed from Poway to Ramona. Witch Fire Information Line [phone]."

I hope the water bombers and winds give the guys and gals some breaks.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:58 AM

My guys were assigned to the Witch Fire at about 0430 today. Here's a link to the Cal Fire (still known to most of us as CDF) website. It's pretty good information about what's burning where, usually updates at 12 hour intervals or so, depending on availability of reports and staff time.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:26 AM

Michael "Canute" Chertoff....

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:25 AM

Keeping everything crossed for you , Amos.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:20 AM

Talk about yer mixed metaphors:

"The shift [of wind direction] could allow for a greater aerial assault and help firefighters beat back the most destructive blazes, said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff during a tour of an evacuation center at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego.

"If the weather cooperates, maybe we can turn the tide," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 09:12 AM

Amos, is there any definitive or near-definitive word on the cause of the fires? I've hear arson brunted about, but I'm sure that Rumor is running wild in the streets. To read the AP wire stories you'd think the winds themselves sparked the blaze instead of spreading it.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 08:30 AM

? I thought I read a day or so ago that the animals are being evaced?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diego/California Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 12:51 AM

Earlier I mentioned Trabuco Canyon as being where my daughter's in laws live, and by extension from where they are within sight of a fire right now. I may be mistaken about the location.

I know that at one point the in laws lived at Trabuco but that may have been before they built their new house. I don't think I know where they live now.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:54 PM

Ah, the four seasons in California, fire, drought, flood, and mud slide.

Stay safe, all of you.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:48 PM

Most evacs are strated with calls called "Reverse 911" -- robomessaging. They are followed up by sheriffs, police or National Guard knocking on doors and helping anyone out who needs it. For the rest, neighbors are helping each other out.

A

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:38 PM

Has there been any media reports on how people who don't have cars have been evacuated out of these areas?

Hopefully, that has been handled much better than it was in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina.

??

But then again, it doesn't take much to be an improvement on the handling of evacuations prior to and during Katrina.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:34 PM

No danger to the area in which the Zoo lies, which is just above the downtown of San Diego city proper. So far all the danger presented by fire has been pretty far south of there and pretty far north of there. We have ot keep licking it so it doesn't hit a mjor wind change and double cross us somehow. If it got into Balboa Park, rich with dry Eucalyptus and wooded slopes and canyons, it would become a walking hell. Ever hear the cry of a burning gorilla? Me neither. And I have no wish to start now.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:31 PM

Thanks, Cap'n Swann. The region owes you one.


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:16 PM

And from Idaho. We've had our share of fire this past Summer....

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:07 PM

? is that great zoo in any danger? I remember when Prague flooded and they had to leave the animals to drown...

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:37 PM

Good one, Dave. Wish the crew a safe trip and safe time there from us in the north.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Dave Swan
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:35 PM

I've just sent a crew from my station in the Bay Area to San Bernardino County, about an eight hour drive. They'll likely be assigned structure protection which will be a tough detail, given the way things look on the news.

At present it looks as though it'll be a seven day assignment before my guys get relieved.

All best wishes for the safety of everybody down there.

D

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 08:08 PM

Ye gods. My daughter just called- there is now a fire nearing her in laws' home. They can see the flames. The word is that it is arson.

I'm not a believer in capital punishment - but I would applaud corporal punishment. :)

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:36 PM

"The only transportation available to us was an old Buick that my older brother had left there while he was off somewhere. It was fall and the radiator had been drained."


             I was working in a gas station in Arizona one time--don't ask--and this guy pulled in with an old Straight-Eight Buick, and it was so hot the rubber had melted off the spark plug leads. There was nothing but bare wires sticking out fused to the spark plugs, but it was still running.


                  "...an uncle, claimed he diverted the fire by holding up a picture of his wife..."


                I'm betting on the uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:05 PM

The effort to house, feed and clothe thousands of evacuees is going well. Kudos to all concerned. The bitter lessons learned during and after Katrina were not lost on the President, the Governor or FEMA.

Stay safe, Amos et al. You and your pets are the only things that can't be replaced.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:43 PM

Thirteen kids and a stalled Buick can bring out the supernatural powers in anyone, I expect. Glad you made it through, Skipper!


A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:39 PM

Indeed, one of the most salient aspects of this great social experiment is how upbeat and cooperative everyone is being in the face of disaster. These are people who may well be fighting for a parking place or cutting each other off in traffic in normal times; but under the larger threat they are rising to the occasion with the best of human spirit.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:31 PM

Thanks, Bill, and to the others who have PMed me. My daughter's morale is high and she is somewhat fatalistic in a good sense. She and her husband are aware that they have done everything they could and taken everything with them that is vitally important to them. The fate of the rest, she said, is "all right".

They were offered refuge in the homes of various friends but none of the homes were that distant and the one thing my son in law said is that he doesn't want to be evacuated more than once. Where they are now is several hours away.

One thing about southern Californians- they are a tough breed and have often had to stare down disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: kendall
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:15 PM

It is 60 years today that my little community was nearly wiped out by a huge forest fire.
This is my account of that near tragedy.

The Great Fire of 1947

I was born and raised in a place where nothing exciting ever happens, the Kennebec district of Machias, Maine.

I was 13 at the time and it seemed that the whole world was on fire. Of course, the whole world consisted of Washington County and a bit west of Ellsworth. It was October 23, 1947. The old folks were in a panic because the fires were advancing east on a strong breeze. Being a typical numb 13 year old I thought it was exciting, having no concept of what it would be like to be burned out and homeless. Our house was over 100 years old and it would always be there.

The only transportation available to us was an old Buick that my older brother had left there while he was off somewhere. It was fall and the radiator had been drained. We didn't know that so we all piled into it and headed for town to the home of one of Mother's relatives. I'm surprised that the car made it as far as it did with an empty radiator but, about 2 miles from home, she overheated and quit.

There we were, stranded, with a forest fire coming right at us. I can't speak for anyone else but, about that time my excitement turned to concern and, just as it turned into a panic, a neighbor, also fleeing the flames, stopped and gave us a ride into Machias.

Sometime in the night the wind changed and, although the fire took a neighbor's house a quarter of a mile away, our old house was spared without mark. In later years, after we had moved on, the old house burned down. One careless smoker and a cigarette did what the forest fire failed to do.

Another neighbor, an uncle, claimed he diverted the fire by holding up a picture of his wife but I'm more inclined to think that it was the result of my Mother's praying that turned the fire. surely she must have had the ear of the almighty to be able to raise a gang of kids such as hers without any of us being imprisoned or hanged.

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:13 PM

...and at the same time, New Orleans is getting 12-14 inches of rain. I'll bet they'd loan you some.

Old proverb: "Whatever hits the fan is never distributed equally."

Ebbie...best wishes for the safety of YOUR family....and all folks affected.

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:57 PM

He's sleeping it off on a cot down at the Rocicrucian Community Home for Elderly Incompetents, recently opened to the community as an evacuation center.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:54 PM

I have been following this in the news - these fires sound horrible! Be safe, Amos!

Subject: RE: BS: California Fires
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:29 PM

Where's old "heck of a job" Brownie when you need him?

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:24 PM

Not everything. Those who evacuated are probably at QualComm stadium on Friar's Road, just north of I-8 in Mission Valley, unless they made other arrangements with friends.

The scope of actual destruction is entirely unpredictable. It is perfectly common to find a house touched by nothing buit a few smoke stains when every building for four blocks in every direction has been reduced to embers and ash.

A few gains have recently been made, allowng some Poway area residents to return to their homesites, and re-opening the Highway 94 traffic flow. I-15 is now open running north and south. But there is still a county-wide battle going on.

A

Subject: RE: BS: San Diegos Wildfires Again
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:20 PM

As of about 7:30 this morning my daughter and her family have been mandatorily evacuated. They have taken their two dogs and one cat plus a friend's three dogs and a cat to my daughter's in laws where there are as yet no fires in the vicinity.

In north Escondido, apparently a housefire set fire to the vegetation and it is advancing rapidly.

Kelly said that the air quality in Trabuco Canyon where they are at the moment is fine. At home it had gotten thick.