BS: Foreign-Farce Football

Subject: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:26 AM

Not that long ago, club-football in England, and other nations, was mostly-locals in meaningful competition, but deregualtion has turned it into a greedy meaningless foreign-farce...

Poem 98 of 230: REREGULATE

One Premier world-eleven v.
    Another such company,
Or wage-caps and say half each-club's squad
    From the local-junior pod?
And, perhaps, heed the cricket-fan's call
    To convert to county-football..?

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Gene Burton
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:35 AM

Well yes; but I've been following the cricket on and off quite a bit recently and it appears the county game is going the same way- teams packed with foreign mercenaries uninterested in playing for anything except the greatest financial reward. What it does is to make sport meaningless as a shared cultural experience because teams have absolutely no connection with the counties or towns whose names they bear other than occasionally playing there. And the need to attract international players to stay competitive of course increasingly makes ticket prices unaffordable for ordinary people.

All that said, I think the choice of thread title is a little unfortunate because it's liable to attract opprobrium from all the predictable sources- perhaps a passing elf would consider changing it?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 08:43 AM

I have no interest in either Thugbrawl, or Thugby.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 11:11 AM

Why a 'foreign' farce? Why not just farce, pure and simple?

Subject: RE: BS: Farce Football
From: Gene Burton
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM

Bear with me, lets just try something...if I delete the word "Foreign" in the Subject field, does the title actually change in the forum homepage?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Gene Burton
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM

OK, so it doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 01:46 PM

With many of the best, most-expensive, players from other nations in the most-wealthy English competition, the quality IS very good now - but, not that long ago, there was quality AND meaning; nowadays, players might just as well swap shirts BEFORE kick-off.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Glasgoal
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 02:22 PM

Quality of football maybe, quality of intelligence questionable. At the weekend David Healy MBE Fulham and Northern Ireland pretended to play a flute in front of the travelling Celtic fans during a pre-season match. Healy is a life long Rangers fan and the gesture was done to antagonise Celtic supporters as this is the high of the Sectarian Orange Order marching season in the North of Ireland.


The football authorities have made efforts to stamp out this type of behaviour.

Sectarian bigot Healy was handed an MBE by in the Queen's birthday honours earlier this year for 'services to football and the community in Northern Ireland'. Well we now see why she gave it !


I see The Daily Record reported that anti-sectarianism charity Nil By Mouth are calling for swift action against Healy. Citing the Battle of the Boyne anniversary Orange victory over Catholic King James as the basis of the exchange with fans clearly showed were Healy stands on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:26 PM

Dearie me. Will "they" now object to the English being proud of Trafalgar or Waterloo, or Americans singing "Battle of New Orleans"?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 04:43 AM

players might just as well swap shirts BEFORE kick-off

But such, indeed, are the realities of international pro football. You want the other thing, as with folk music, you've got to dig just that little bit deeper - go out and support the small clubs & leagues that do consist of locals in meaningful competition. When we lived in Waterhouses in rural Country Durham, it was a joy to go and watch Esh Winning FC of a cold winters day, flask of Bovril in hand. And let's not forget West Auckland Town AFC who once brought home the World Cup. If it wasn't for the Folk Party, I'd love to go and watch their fixture with Marske United on Saturday. So - don't despair, human level local football is alive and well and not about to go away; so get out there and enjoy it!

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,stu sans cookie
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 04:43 AM

How long before this xenophobic thread is closed?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 05:37 AM

I disagree SSC - if someone prefers English club-football the way it was not that long ago, they are NOT automatically "xenophobic"; and I think it's wrong that those who take such threads off-thread, and repeatedly make personal attacks, should NOT keep succeeding in having them closed (I, for one, would have continued adding any news to the Green/Godly Gardening thread - if it had not been closed).
To IB - I agree but add/reaffirm that ALL our club-football was largely like that before deregulation, which I think occurred just over a decade ago. I think it was only 2 foreign players on the field then, and I think FIFA are discussing making it only 5 (perhaps someone can confirm this).

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: MartinRyan
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 06:11 AM

Relax! It's only a game - the football, as well as the provocation...

Regards

p.s. Did Xenophobia get through to the UEFA Cup this year?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 06:27 AM

"But such, indeed, are the realities of international pro football. You want the other thing, as with folk music,"

Ah - for those inexperienced with WAV - a heads up.... :-P

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 07:17 AM

I am experienced with WAV & am under no illusions about his ideas and agendas, hidden or otherwise. I think he's being surprisingly frank on this one actually, tying his colours to the mast in the name of something else he has no evident understanding of, his only interest in the matter being, as ever, one of ethnic & cultural purity. Or maybe I'm misreading his argument here, in the face of his usual outpourings?

Either way, I'm absolutely disgusted with the Higher Moral Mudcat Authorities who feel the need to close threads down in the midst of such important debate. Yesterday I started two threads concerning this nannying interference; both were deleted, and neither garnered any support from other Mudcatters, which is, in itself, somewhat puzzling.

No doubt this will be deleted too, or else the thread closed, in which case it's back to discussing cheese & Child Ballads...

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: MartinRyan
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 08:09 AM

Whatever about Child ballads, I would have thought cheese was a particularly appropriate topic in this context.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 08:41 AM

IB - as you sometimes do, you've accused me of your own fault: I have been (and would be again if it was reregulated) very keen on English club-football; in my blank-verse poem #1, I detailed my 7 years of junior football in Sydney - during which, as with many youngsters around the world, I keenly followed football here (The Big Match, magazines that promoted Alf Ramsey-like calm and discipline, rather than modern passion and tolerance, etc.).

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,stu still sans cookie
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 09:24 AM

WAV The thread seems to me xenophobic. You may or may not be. I really don't know whether these repeated threads are intended to wind people up, or whether they have a serious intent

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 11:09 AM

I just just explained, Stu, that I am genuinely interested in football (and the topics of all the other threads I've started or have posted on); and don't you think it's a bit rich to post on a DISCUSSION forum that you don't want this topic discussed at all, because it's so stongly against what you think? Football here WAS regulated - only a decade ago...was that "xenophobic"?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Glasgoal
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 11:13 AM

"Dearie me. Will "they" now object to the English being proud of Trafalgar or Waterloo" ?

Why Waterloo or Trafalgar Richard ? why not Dresden or Bloemfontein, events the English are famous for ! lol

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Master Baiter
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:11 PM

All English football is a farce. In the U.S. we play real football! Walksabout seems to think that there was ever some kind of English football which was the best. This proves he knows nothing. All they play there is that silly game we call soccer which isn't real football.

Soccer is just a bunch of candy-ass guys in short pants kicking a ball around and not even coordinated enough to be able to pick it up or throw it. Its a real wimpy game and barely a game at that.

American football is played by real men who beat the living hell out of each other while they execute brilliant strategies worthy of a chess master in their complexity and intelligence. In Soccer they are so busy running around like the idiots they are that they have no time for grand strategies and could not formulate one if they tried.

No physicality either in Soccer. Its just isn't a real man's game. I remember awhile back when some guy knocked another guy down there was some big stink over it. Hell, that happens every play in real football, American style!   Wimpy soccer players retire in overall good health while American footballers suffer the rest of their lives from assorted skeletal/muscular problems and some are even crippled. Just proves that Soccer isn't a real man's game.

The best thing for you to do Walksabout is to lobby your town to get a real American style football league started and then maybe getting people to attend on a local level would be no trick. I doubt though that you would have the balls to play the game yourself but surely somewhere in England there are enough real men to play.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:15 PM

WAV, it seems that you are objecting, yet again, to FOREIGNERS in England and in daily life there. I think that the problem has more to do with top-league footballers being morre interested in how to make money and party, than in actually playing.

What do you mean by passion and tolerance?

Richard, nothing wrong in being proud of Waterloo, but let's not forget the major role played by the Dutch and Belgian troops, despite them being downplayed and denigrated by Wellington.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:18 PM

Master Baiter, that's a bit rich, considering all the padding and stuff that American footballers wear. Ever hear of rugby? Trust me, in comparison, American Footballers are wimpy and namby-pambies.

And for the record, I don't think that WAV's threads should be closed. Just isn't right.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: irishenglish
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM

Yes WAV's right, so by that token, I'm starting a kick David Beckham out of the US campaign right now. We don't need his English style and celebrity sullying the great traditions of US soccer. US soccer for US soccer players only!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Master Baiter
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:47 PM

I don't care who plays Soccer in America. From the beginnings its always been about the same sissy stuff. American kids play some but the real repect goes to football. Hell, they even let girls play in the kid's leagues which shows just what a goofy game it is!

And as for Rugby, it still isn't real football. Yeah, its better than Sissysoccer but still a long ways from being the true sport that football is! You really have to question a game where all of them get into some kind of wad they call a scrum. Looks like they are sniffing each other's sweaty buttcracks. What is that anyway? Are there some kind of points awarded for scrums?   "Best Ass Sniffer" gets a bonus point or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 12:55 PM

Heck, Master Baiter, while I am no fan of rugby, at least we don't need body armour over here when we do play a body contact sport. Who's teh panty-waist now?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 01:01 PM

In some parts of the US you need body armor to be a lawyer.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM

Do you have an MA in your art, MB? (but Catspaw may have a bone to pick with you)...last time I watched American football Joe Montana was playing! I'll second what RB and Volgadon said (yes, we do agree - once in a blue moon), but it does have it's moments, a bit like this forum. However, you don't really want England to be Americanis/zed anymore do you - don't you want to experience THE DIFFERENCE when you visit the Old Dart? And, yes, IE, DB should be earning a living here.

Here's my thoughts on Rugby (Union/League)...

Poem 99 of 230: ONE RUGBY?

With sixth-tackle, knock-on and touch-line hand-over -
    No scrums, line-outs, rucks or mauls;
The rest (the best of both codes) would hardly alter -
    And no splits, due to two calls.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Master Baiter
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 01:37 PM

Why wouldn't I want England to Americanized? Seems like a good thing for you over there. When I visit places I'd prefer they were American. When you have the best, go with it. That's why you all need some help like American football.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM

Good choice of name.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: irishenglish
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 02:12 PM

Um....sarcasm WAV...that's all my post was. I don't give a toss about him playing here.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 02:50 PM

"Do you have an MA in your art, MB? (but Catspaw may have a bone to pick with you)..."

Finally - a sense of humor! Well done,WAV.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Jul 08 - 07:34 PM

"Yesterday I started two threads concerning this nannying interference; both were deleted, and neither garnered any support from other Mudcatters, which is, in itself, somewhat puzzling"

Sorry, musta been deleted before I saw them....

"American football is played by real men who beat the living hell out of each other"

Yes but those sissies wear padding and armour! Real Aussie Footbrawlers don't wear that sissy stuff! Of course they only play the ball rather than the man... not legal to tackle anyone without the ball :-p

"have no time for grand strategies"

Ha! Yanks have to have half hour breaks every time the ball moves a few feet, have sissy sport drinks, massages and ad breaks before they can work out the next big strategy - Aussie Footbrawlers have to do all that on the run without stopping! And we only stop to take the broken bodies off the field! :-P




"US soccer for US soccer players"

And we'll have to stop those Yanks from trying to play Cricket....

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 05:46 AM

I played one season of Aussie Rules Football, before 7 years of soccer (poem 1); I think it's a good game, overall, and still watch bits of it via the Eurosport I get in England.
Back to Association Football/soccer - another problem of deregulation is that nowadays English players do not get as much big-match experience as they used to (because the top "English" clubs are full of other nationals), and this has been bad for our national team, which, in desperation, has recently been mangaged by Swedes and Italians, when all we really need to do is go back to our OWN good values and ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 05:56 AM

WAV

"Aussie Rules" - allegedly a traditional aboriginal activity taught to the Europeans (there's quite a bit of documentation to suppor that btw!) is not what I was talking about, but both "Rugby Union & Rugby League" - one is called "Thugby" and the other "Thugbrawl" - not sure which is which.... :-P

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 07:53 AM

Apart from PE, I never played either rugby code, FT, but, living in Sydney, where it was/is the most popular team spectator-sport, for 22 years, I've certainly watched a lot of rugby league...and, although it's still a tough game, as you say, I think it's been cleaned up a fair bit the last few years, with less head-high tackles, etc., yes?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 08:26 AM

As has union, although the new maul collapsing rules may lead to a few sore limbs in the future. A lot of the technique, use of strength, pain etc in Union occurs in the scrum, ruck and maul. Far too subtle to be noticed by our friend from across the pond.

Apparently Aussie rules is the toughest team game, and any contact sport played on what the aussies call grass is going to hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 08:47 AM

"I think it's been cleaned up a fair bit the last few years, with less head-high tackles, etc., yes"

Probably, but definitely more punch ups, and more suspensions for same... :-)


"any contact sport played on what the Aussies call grass is going to hurt"


... only during the decades long drought periods.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Stu
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 10:44 AM

Only an American would cite his game as being the best because it's the most violent.

We love real football because when played well it's as sublime a display of individual skill, teamwork, drama and sporting endeavour as you're likely to find - anyone remember this?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Master Baiter
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 11:04 AM

Walksabout doesn't care that American football is so much better. He's just wishing that his locals were all locals I think.

Walksabout-If you happen to have any real men you can send them over here but you can believe me that no real American will come to your local. Is that agreeable?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: Stu
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 11:16 AM

"you can believe me that no real American will come to your local"

How can you tell if an American is real?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 11:18 AM

"Walksabout-If you happen to have any real men you can send them over here but you can believe me that no real American will come to your local. Is that agreeable? "

Does that make any sense at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 11:46 AM

WAV, what do you mean by passion and tolerance?

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 12:34 PM

That's the trend here, at least, Volgadon - whereas we English were once thought of as the stiff-upper-lipped, calm, disciplined folks of the world, now the media and even politicians encourage us to take a passionate attitude toward everything, and then say tut-tut-tut at the results. And, to relate it back to football, this poem refers to a quote from the late great Alf Ramsey: "It will all end in tears"...

Poem 150 of 230: TEARS

Watching a documentary
    Of the '66 World Cup,
And the way of England's Ramsey,
    I thought: "Let's give 'passion' up."

It voiced and showed his calm way -
    He playing things down a touch;
And, as his home team won the day,
    They showed care but not too much.

Analytical Englishmen -
    Cool over the tasks that lay;
We see some of it in Henman,
    But it's not the modern way.

Sadly, passion and youthful thought
    Have become the status quo,
And social-standards and sport
    Have sunk relatively low.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 01:34 PM

WAV, you've showed me that poem ad nauseum. What does passion mean to you and what did you mean by tolerance.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 07:40 PM

To masterbater football means kicking the ball you throw it more than you kick it get in the real world and see aussie rules we dont wear all the crap you wear we play on a field twice as big as yours and we only stop 3 times a game you stop every 10 seconds

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jul 08 - 02:42 PM

"WAV, you've showed me that poem ad nauseum. What does passion mean to you and what did you mean by tolerance." (Volgadon)...I mean the sort of meanings you'd find in your dictionary.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 08:53 AM

Strong sexual desire? Yes, I don't think we want that sort of thing on the field.

Flippancy aside, my point is that there are a lot of definitions in the dictionary. They often have different meanings. I still don't understand what tolerance has to do with playing footie.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 08 - 07:58 AM

Yes Volgadon, people can take a passionate (stong emotion/desire) or calm attitude toward anything...they can calmly wait for a bus or they can smash the perspex, they can calmly cue and wait for a football match or they can crush, etc; Alf Ramsey was largely an old-school English winner who encouraged calm and discipline NOT passion and tolerence. In England, instead of employing more-and-more foreigners to effectively compete for us, we should be going back to such old-school values and REGULATIONS.

Subject: RE: BS: Foreign-Farce Football
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 03 Aug 08 - 06:51 AM

Ah, so you mean flying into a frenzy of temper tantrums, yes we don't need that kind of passion, but what do you think about caring deeply and strongly about something, or do we all have to look bored.
You still haven't explained where tolerance fits in.