The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 02:24 PM

nationalism of any sort does not solve economic problems.
an understanding of the capitalist system,is important in trying to solve the inequalities of society.
The problem with nationalism,is that it has been used, in the past,and probably will be used again in the future,to distract people from the real causes of their economic problems,which is the system.
Being proud of a musical heritage is different,but one needs to understand the musical heritage,and understand that no man is an island unto himself,and that all musical heritages have had outside infleunces,there is no such thing as a pure English musical heritage,any more than there is a pure Irish musical heritage,[DonegalHighlands and Scottish influence spring to mind] the four nations are musically intertwined,and have influenced each other.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:50 PM

Nothing wrong with being an English nationalist. It is the blinkered, twisted view of a pure ethnic history that we challenge. Just as I think that 'Celtic' cultures owe as much to England as they do to some sort of pan-celtism.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:50 PM

If it seems to you that I misunderstand you, WAV, then that might actually be the case. You keep emitting mixed messages, often contradicting things that you have posted before.

It's like trying to follow a butterfly with the hiccups

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:37 PM

It definitely is like that on this island, Carol - it's at least acceptable to be a Welsh nationalist in Wales, or a Scottish nationalist in Scotland, but certainly NOT an English nationalist in England (the small percentage of nationalistic folks in England tend, rather, to support British Nationalism; which leads me back to Don and another misunderstanding - I hate the imperialism of the Victorian era, and that's why I like the idea of Nationalism with eco-tourism and fair-trade, via a stronger UN, rather than capitalist immigration and imperialism.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:22 PM

Does anyone dispute the existence of a French culture? Or a Scottish culture? Or a Hawaiian Culture? Are these cultures non-existent because they have been influenced by people and cultures that originated elsewhere at some point in the past?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:17 PM

About 50 years ago, LP, immigrants mad up less than half a percent of the population here, and I stand by what I said above -
"England is (or was until about 50 years ago, when mass immigration began) an olde olde blend of, mostly, European cultures - with a HERITAGE that we should be a lot more (Chinese-like) proud of."

These two statements are mutually contradictory.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:12 PM

I fully understand what you are saying, WAV.

Yours is the veiled view of the person who dreams of some former but non-existent "Golden Age," in your case, perhaps the era of Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, et al.

I think the nature of your problem has more to do with all those Pakistanis. Dark skinned taxi drivers who speak with accents. The reek of curry around those take-out restaurants. All that vindaloo. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM

To out-of-tune Don: it's as if you've read another thread before posting - how could you have so misunderstood my "olde olde blend of mostly European cultures"? That surely is a far cry from saying your "sprung out of good old English soil"!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:47 PM

I just tuned in to observe the latest developments, noted WAV's response to my query regarding the nature of English culture, and was rather astonished to learn from WAV that, until quite recently, the English came from nowhere else and have always sprung out of good English soil, spontaneously, not unlike mushrooms!

Amazing!!

And that "mass migrations" didn't occur until just fifty years ago!

Well, now. . . .

I note that lady penelope pounced on this well before me.

Really, WAV! I believe you claimed on some post awhile back, in an attempt to lend weight to some of your bizarre assertions, that you have diplomas, certificates, awards, knighthoods, and Nobel Prizes in anthropology.

Excuse me if I tend to have serious doubts about your claimed credentials.

It's patently obvious that your knowledge of anthropology--not to mention your knowledge of history, well known by any school child with sufficient alertness to stay awake in classes--is more than just a little deficient.

Either that, or you have a few wires seriously crossed!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:35 PM

And some of those European cultures were more foreign to each other than even, say, West Africans and Poles.
If you don't believe me, read up on the Hugeonots in England.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM

About 50 years ago, LP, immigrants mad up less than half a percent of the population here, and I stand by what I said above -
"England is (or was until about 50 years ago, when mass immigration began) an olde olde blend of, mostly, European cultures - with a HERITAGE that we should be a lot more (Chinese-like) proud of."

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: lady penelope
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 11:12 AM

WAV go look at the books again. Mass immigration to the British Isles started thousands of years ago. The 1950's were merely one of the later waves...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:19 AM

To PR! - you have ignored HERITAGE in your rant

With all respect, that wasn't a rant and it didn't ignore heritage. My second point was all about what our social and cultural heritage - in England, in 2008 - actually is.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 04:24 AM

To PR! - you have ignored HERITAGE in your rant - unlike, as I say, the Chinese yesterda, thank goodness.
And to Don - England is (or was until about 50 years ago, when mass immigration began) an olde olde blend of, mostly, European cultures - with a HERITAGE that we should be a lot more (Chinese-like) proud of.

Now, being Saturday and having questioned capitalism during the last week, time for...

THE WEEKLY WALKABOUT, E.G.

Poem 105 of 230: GLOBAL REGULATIONISM

No income-scale would be unjust -
    It's a matter of degree;
And, to have less inequality,
    Regulations are a must.

For, in Millennium's status quo,
    The pay-gaps for human work,
And what's gotten simply as a perk,
    ARE wrong - inhumanely so.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:16 PM

By the way, that was 100.

(Life is full of little triumphs!)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:14 PM

Having taken a few anthropology courses when I was in school, I am a bit confused as to just what "English culture" is.

What is generally regarded as the first piece of English literature is an epic poem, Beowulf, author unknown. Written in Old English, but the hero is a Dane and most of the action takes place in what is now Denmark and Sweden. I've heard the speculation that it may have been written originally in Danish (or Old Norse) and someone translated it into Old English. So the first work of English literature may not be English at all.

Considering that we--even WAV--can all be traced back (via mitochondrial DNA) to an African woman some 200,000 years ago, no matter how you slice it, Britain is a land of immigrants. Very little is known about the first peoples to populate the British Isles. Were these the builders of stone circles, or did they come later? Then came the Celts from the European continent. Then came the Angles. And the Saxons. The raids of the Norsemen on the coasts of England, and even the occasional community of Vikings quite probably led to a lot of Nordic genes seeding the English population of the time. Then, they came again, but this time the spoke French, having established themselves in the north of France:   the Normans.

Was it, perhaps, a bucolic scene of a shepherd and a milkmaid romping in verdant fields, complete with a string orchestra playing "Greensleeves" in the background, that constituted a local version of Garden of Eden, and pure English culture can be traced back to this event?

So—as a mere bumpkin who lives over here in the Colonies, I'm curious to know what constitutes pure, unadulterated English culture?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 07:07 PM

Some glories of English music.

A couple of thoughts - well, three. First, the form of WAV's observations is unappealing; they seem to consist of an endless list of things people shouldn't do and people who should stop doing them. Word to the wise: if you don't like Runrig/the Beatles/the Fall, try not listening to them. More to the point, don't talk about them - talk about the musicians you do like, if there are any.

Second, the content of what WAV has to say isn't just peevish and negative; I think it's also profoundly unhistorical. I love the music that was made in England (and Scotland, and Ireland) a hundred and more years ago, but that country isn't there any more. As well as a land of ploughboys and milkmaids, England was the heart of vast trading network and a global empire. Those things can't be wished away, and nor can their consequences - which include a high degree of multicultural cross-pollination (see links above). To say that English culture in 2008 is clog-dancing and Constable isn't quaint or eccentric, it's just false.

Third, who cares what WAV thinks anyway? Why do we keep coming back to play whack-a-mole with him?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:27 PM

Arto Tuncboyaciyan of the aforementioned Armenian Navy Band is an interesting case. An Armenian from Turkey, he plays in a wide variety of styles, from traditional, to Jazz, to Mediterranean, to rock, but he plays it as an Armenian. He isn't a slave to music, especially to a notion of this is folk music because this is supposedly how it was played since the days of blessed St Mesrop and time immemorial, but he makes whatever he plays Armenian. WAV, if you were to try and tell an Armenian that this music isn't real Armenian, but a borrowing of other cultures, they would laugh in your face.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:14 PM

Well... as I have tried pointing out to him, how does he feel about music that comes from a wide diaspora of shared culture, not ethnicity? Sephardic and Ladino music for one. Virtually all throughout Europe you have tradition and language from the past that linger on hundreds of years later. Thus a singer like the wonderful Elena Ledda from Sardinia sings much material in Catalan.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:12 PM

IE - the Gaels do mimick Amerindian chants and drums, I promise. It derives partly from an empathy over loss of lands, etc., but, still, I don't like it - however, as I say, most of what I hear on Gaelic radio, via satellite, is very enjoyable indeed.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:01 PM

One wonders what WAV would think of the Armenian Navy Band.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:53 PM

By far not my favourite band, but this track always seemed very Noel Coward-ish. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMz-wi50ACU
It's probably worth pointing out that he (Coward) emulated or borrowed from American music.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:35 PM

Can you give me a specific example of the Scottish Gaelic tradiion of mimicking Amerindian chants and drums?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:32 PM

The Beatles even tried talking in American accents

As does Eric Burdon but I still reckon he's one of the finest blues singers ever, and a credit to his native Tyneside.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:27 PM

To IE: I listen to quite a lot of Scottish Gaelic radio, and it's mostly authentic unaccompanied singing but also with Scottish pipes, harps, etc. - the only thing I don't like is the Scottish Gaelic tradition of mimicking Amerindian/native American chants and drums.

Oh lord, where do I even start with this one?!!!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:25 PM

Here's a Whopping Green Man as found in the Scarecrow Festival in the village of Wray, Lancashire, back in May. Methinks he's a very modern take on the traditional Green Man of British folk custom, but handsomely impressive nevertheless. I would have thought with you being of Mancunian origin you would have went for Lowry rather than Constable...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:19 PM

Why not Stubbs? I know who could play what part.....

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:18 PM

"going by Manchester's very pop Commonwealth Games opening ceremony" (me).

Manchester is a very pop city, WAV, giving us some of the finest & uniquely English popular music of all time; The Smiths, The Fall, Joy Division, New Order, Oasis, Freddy & the Dreamers, Inspiral Carpets, Stone Roses, The Hollies et al. See Here for a full list...(IB)...frankly, as with Ewan MacColl, I, from Manchester way, would rather ramble; and pop derived from AMERICAN religious music - The Beatles even tried talking in American accents! God help us.
To IE: I listen to quite a lot of Scottish Gaelic radio, and it's mostly authentic unaccompanied singing but also with Scottish pipes, harps, etc. - the only thing I don't like is the Scottish Gaelic tradition of mimicking Amerindian/native American chants and drums.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:00 PM

Morris Dancing to an English concertina; an unaccompanied version of Country Life and/or the shanty Homeward Bound, to which everyone in the stadium would be given the words to the chorus/refrain; mass clog dancing to a penny whistle, a coalliery brass band playing English Country Gardens, whilst actors picnic in some kind of creation of a cottage garden, perhaps also containing a whopping Green Man; English actors reciting some of our many fine poets and playwrights; a mass of costumed folk forming a huge Constable - The Haywain, maybe...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:54 PM

going by Manchester's very pop Commonwealth Games opening ceremony

Manchester is a very pop city, WAV, giving us some of the finest & uniquely English popular music of all time; The Smiths, The Fall, Joy Division, New Order, Oasis, Freddy & the Dreamers, Inspiral Carpets, Stone Roses, The Hollies et al. See Here for a full list...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:53 PM

WAV, you do realise that Chinese opera superceded traditional music?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:46 PM

That's no answer WAV. You may be right about what gets presented at the 2012 opening ceremony, but once again, you have diverted my questions into another topic. My points had nothing to do with the Olympics. If you're so concerned why don't you join the organizing committee? I probably asked you about 10 perfectly reasonable questions yesterday, it would be nice if you could answer at least one.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:37 PM

This question is open to all by the way - to compile your own Taste of English Culture...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:33 PM

and I do hope and pray for plenty of our own culture in London

Out of genuine curiosity, Wav, what would you present by way of a taste of English culture?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:25 PM

To FT - in agreement with what you say of amateur theatre, in Newcastle upon Tyne we have an amatear People's Theatre, whose quality is excellent, I think. However, call me a coarse folkie if you will, but I'm still scratching my head over your "coarse actors" definition..?!
To IE - as you may have noticed, in China they now have rap, rock and pop groups, which are becoming more-and-more popular among youngsters who may otherwise be performing their own culture; although, thankfully, at the opening ceremony, we did get a good taste of traditional Chinese culture - and I do hope and pray for plenty of our own culture in London; but, going by Manchester's very pop Commonwealth Games opening ceremony, I do worry about this.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:09 AM

Last one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yTQRlZTUTM&feature=related

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:08 AM

Here is a blatant example of an Israeli not practising his own culture, but having a go at multi-culturalism. The horrors! It's a stupendous track. His then-current girlfriend was Irish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGnA6oKC6is

Here is one that has a few Irish pop-ish numbers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAfD0Jj6dwQ

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:08 AM

What about these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGdlP1xuy40&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4LUZPculgQ&feature=related

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:07 AM

Do these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFlVBOPncmc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9gwRmyEZxI

Sorry for the numerous posts, Mudcat isn't letting me put them all in one.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:06 AM

Do these sound anything but Israeli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0tnSgv-EE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbNj0DleE_I

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 05:04 AM

Do these sound anything but Russian?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKdYLvt1wsY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcwcayA_PW0&feature=related
His influences are from all over, including India and even Richard Thompson and Steeleye!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:15 AM

I'm a 'recycled muso' Don.
To Quote from my thread (oh dear, now he's at it too!)

"A Recycled Muso is a person who has already learnt to play one Musical Instrument, and is starting to learn another."

I never saw the word as pejorative, not sure that other Aussies intend it to be pejorative either. It's a fairly common sort of Aussie slang where we shorten words like 'musician' to muso'.

"If you are expecting people to come to hear you perform, and you are charging them money to do so, you owe it to them to give them their money's worth. Which means that you know your material and that you present it well."
"A professional, after all, is someone who receives sufficient payment for what he or she does to make a living at it"

Having spent some considerable time working in Amateur Theatre, I can assure you that many such unpaid people DO have a very "Professional" Attitude. That is, they 'owe it to their audience to give them their money's worth. Which means that they know their material and that they present it well.' If you want REAL AMATEURS in theatre, I suggest you look up Mr Green's "The Art of Coarse Acting" to gain an understanding of the difference. I have been so bold as to previously suggest that WAV is truly "A Coarse Folk Singer".

QUOTE
A coarse actor is "one who can remember his lines, but not the order in which they come. One who performs . . . amid lethal props. The Coarse Actor's aim is to upstage the rest of the cast. His hope is to be dead by Act Two so that he can spend the rest of his time in the bar. His problems? Everyone else connected with the production." (Michael Green)
UNQUOTE

You can make your own translation...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:04 PM

"Narrow-minded absolutism!???" Well, that's pretty harsh! In what way is what I have posted "narrow-minded absolutism?" Please explain.

Insane Beard, apparently you skipped my footnote above where I said that I'm speaking specifically about those who aspire to be professional musicians. And that's regardless of whether they perform folk music, opera, classical, jazz, or whatever. If you sing strictly for your own enjoyment or the enjoyment of friends and family, with no interest in singing gigs (in other words, a "real folk singer"), that's a whole different thing.

If you are expecting people to come to hear you perform, and you are charging them money to do so, you owe it to them to give them their money's worth. Which means that you know your material and that you present it well. You may regard yourself as a "folk singer," but in this situation, you are an entertainer (AND if you can slip them a little education and authenticity at the same time, that's much to the good!).

As to whether folk music is best served by amateurs, and that professionalism is an anathema to it, is most debatable indeed. A professional, after all, is someone who receives sufficient payment for what he or she does to make a living at it. It is generally through professional singers of folk songs that interest in folk music is spread.

I know a fair number of people who were actually turned off to folk music when their introduction consisted of hearing some field recordings—or live performances or recordings by some of the more 'rough-and-ready" singers. But later, upon hearing some of the same songs sung by professional singers, or singers who, even if not pursuing singing careers, might be considered "professional quality," they became actively interested themselves. With this as an introduction, they later went on to listen to field records and rougher-edged singers with new ears.

The following are two quotes from singers of folk songs that I think might be enlightening and edifying:

One is from Rolf Cahn, a singer from whom, in just a few brief encounters, I learned a great deal back in the late 1950s.

The most ticklish question still results from that awful word "Folk Music", which gives the erroneous impression that there is one body of music with one standard texture, dynamic, and history. Actually, the term today covers areas that are only connected in the subtlest terms of general feeling and experience. A United States cowboy song has less connection with a bloody Zulu tale than it has to "Western Pop" music; a lowdown blues fits less with Dutch South African melody than with George Gershwin.

Most of us agree in feeling as to our general boundaries, but more and more we search for our own particular contributions as musicians within these variegated provinces. There doesn't seem to be much point in imitating-what, after all, is the point of doing Little Moses exactly like the Carter Family? Yet it seems vital to convey the massive, punching instrumentals and the tense driving, almost hypnotic voice of the Carter Family performances.

One the one hand, there is the danger of becoming a musical stamp collector; on the other, the equal danger of leaving behind the language, texture, and rhythm that made the music worthy of our devotion in the first place. So we have arrived at a point where in each case we try to determine those elements which make a particular piece of music meaningful to us, and to build the performance through these elements. By continuing to learn everything possible of the art form-techniques, textures, rhythms, cultural implications and conventions, we hope to mature constantly in our individual understanding and creativity in this music.

And the other is from Richard Dyer-Bennet (granted that the classically trained Dyer-Bennet is not everyone's cup of tea, nevertheless, what he says below is most certainly true).

The value lies inherent in the song, not in the regional mannerisms or colloquialisms. No song is ever harmed by being articulated clearly, on pitch, with sufficient control of phrase and dynamics to make the most of the poetry and melody, and with an instrumental accompaniment designed to enrich the whole effect.

Amen.

By the way, there is a term that I've encountered here on Mudcat only within the past few months, and it seems to be used mostly by British or Australians. The term is "muso." I couldn't find it in any dictionary, so I tried to chase it down on the internet, the best I could come up with is "The term 'Muso' is slang commonly used in Australia and England. It refers to a young musician."

The way I see it used here on Mudcat, it seems to be used as a pejorative. What, exactly, do people mean when they use this term?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 03:03 PM

Then why do you sing songs that aren't from Manchester???

"Folk music IS meant to be local/regional/national. Our forebears were loyal to this when

they formed the English Folk Dance and Song Society, as have been contemporary Scots

by forming a Degree in Scottish Traditional Music. Further, I'm told several of our earliest

folk-clubs strongly encouraged participants to select from their own culture"

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: irishenglish
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:55 PM

Yet again WAV, you seemingly will not, or cannot answer what are important questions or comments to your life's work. Do you believe that music has border checkpoints, that musical styles, and instrumentation, and subject matter are limited to the modern boundaries in which we now live? Do you believe that multiculturism is best achieved by imposing the harshest of limitations on something meant to be as universally enjoyed as music? Do you believe that, given the choice between the death of culture and language of this modern age versus the (in your view) notion of purity is really a good option? Do you believe that there has been no cross-pollinization in music up to now, that it is only this beast that we generically call "Rock" that has caused the fusion in music that you so dislike?

You also entirely missed my point about Runrig. What truely makes the Scottish form WAV? Highland or lowland? Bagpipes? Accordion? Jimmy Shand? Do you know Runrig WAV? Ok, I'm a fan, others may not be, but they are a good example for this discussion. They were certainly not the first to deliberately write songs in Scottish Gaelic (I believe that was Ossian?), but what they have helped to do is bring new life to a language that was struggling. You'd rather complain about how puristic notions make a nice multicultural world, rather than saying how awesome it is that a 15 year old kid is singing along to a Gaelic song, and maybe, just maybe-learning some of the language. Your notions of multiculturism are flawed because you impose your own sets of standards and limitations on things that I don't think you fully grasp. You can quote me all the countries you have visited, and all your Aboriginal and Native American friends on your myspace page, but that doesn't matter to me. What matters is that music and culture and language grow, day by day, year by year. Linguistically, I'm sure you have words in your vocabulary that literally did not exist as little as 10 years ago. Someone, somewhere makes up a word, it enters common usage, and next thing you know, it gets put in the dictionary as an accepted part of our language. Do you not think that happens with music WAV? Do you not think because music does not stand still, but rather, progresses, that there are bound to be changes and evolution in musical form, instrumentation, rhythm, recording, presentation and so on?
Multiculturism is alive and well, just not in the way that YOU PERSONALLY wish it to go. I think we'll get along fine though. I've got history on my side for that one.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:37 PM

Volgadon,

WAV is originally from Manchester, I think.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:37 PM

It's in my opening blank verse poem, Volgadon, but, briefly, I was born in Manchester - actually the day Alf Ramsey's English team won the World Cup of football.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 02:00 PM

WAV, what part of England are you originally from?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 01:54 PM

Some (and most who play at a live no-miming events like Glastonbury) in pop ARE genuine musicians, Sinsull, but anyone who has ever tuned into one of those pop-chart type shows would know that others are clearly not - yet they may have made a quick fortune while other genuine musicians have struggled.
I'd rather Runrig perform their Scottish lyrics that you mention, IE, in a Scottish, rather than American, form, frankly. And, if both can sound good, why not chose the form from one's own neck-of-the-woods and, thereby, help keep our world nice and multicultural. This is nothing new, of course - many reading this will know as well or better than I the perform-your-own policies of 50s and 60s folk-clubs here.
And, to Volgadon, fair-trade of fruit, etc., is very much a part of the WAV way. So, on that one, she's apples, as they may still say in Aus.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (temp.)
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:23 PM

Comment:
I despise mime but even I know that it takes years of study to become one of the few who "make Millions". I have the same difficulty with some blues, some jazz, and some classical music - doesn't make it bad. Doesn't mean that the artists haven't earned their keep nor does it mean that someone, whose craft I prefer, deserves it more than they do.

Or have I misunderstood?