'5000 Morris Dancers'

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 04:07 AM

Here is something WAV might like to consider, especially as regards his top-line melody theory.

http://www.wgma.org.uk/Articles/intro.htm

In parish records all around the country, details of the setting-up of singing groups may be found. Often this is in the form of an agreement, and this one from Alberbury in Shropshire made in 1788 is typical.


It was agreed by the Majority of a Parish Meeting of the Parishioners ... that the parish should be at the Expence of paying a Proper Person to improve and instruct any Young People that are willing to sing Psalms (to the Glory of God) in the said Church.

The next entries are for payments for meat and drink for the singers, to a Mr Michiner for instructing the psalm singers, and for the purchase of five psalm books. The only item missing from the Alberbury churchwardens' accounts is the purchase of a pitch-pipe. This was a wooden whistle or recorder-like pipe with a sliding insert which could be moved in and out to vary the pitch. Such an instrument had become necessary because the groups usually sang in three- or four-part harmony.

The early west gallery singing was, with only a few exceptions, dominated by male voices. In much of the early music the melody line is given to the tenor, with an underpinning bass harmony, contra-tenor as a counter. and a treble voice or voices above. As far as we have been able to discover, most early groups sang unaccompanied, but plainly, with limited local resources, often with little schooling, it would have been difficult for relatively untutored singers to hold their lines against other parts. This is probably the most significant single reason for the introduction of instruments. Fiddles would almost certainly have been available within village communities, but the cost of bass instruments would have been beyond the pockets of the middling tradesmen and artisans who made up the groups.

When reading old records one can almost detect a feeling of pride in the parish accounts when their subscriptions raised enough for the purchase of a bass viol, 'cello, bassoon, or serpent. Later purchases might have included an oboe (although it was more often called an hautbois, hoby, hotboy, etc.), a clarinet, and a flute, or flutes. The instruments were not grouped together as a band; instead, each instrument led a group of singers who would normally gather around the player, as in the marvellous painting of a village quire on the cover of the Watersons' 'Sound, Sound your Instruments of Joy'. In most parish accounts they remained 'the psalm singers' despite the addition of instruments, and they often cost a considerable proportion of the parish spending.

Too poor to afford a printed hymn book for each member of the quire, the musicians would lovingly copy out the words and scores into their personal tune-books, the instrumentalists often adding the dance tunes of the period in the back of the book.

There is no doubt that the mixed groups of instrumentalists and singers which we refer to as 'quires' to distinguish them for the organ-driven, surpliced latter-day groups, became very important in parish life. Those who played for the singing in church would also have played a major part in parish social life on feast days, high days and holidays. They had status within parish society, the nature of their jobs often gave them a measure of independence, and they were not infrequently in conflict with the parson or the squire. Their music often travelled far and wide, and in surprising forms.

......

Why would trad songs have necessarily been treated differently, and not sung in parts or with instruments playing more than the top-line melody? Granted, if you were singing a song whilst plowing the fields, you wouldn't have been able to play an instrument, but that's a different matter.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:40 PM

Some old English examples of songs accompanied by chords

The first is a theorbo - first time Ive seen one played.

So if that's not authentic what is?

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:25 PM

By that way, that was 600. And I wasn't even trying. I'm laying in wait to be The Mark of the Beast.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:14 PM

Anyone with half a wit can come up with a limerick, or a collection of quatrains, but something like a sonnet, esoecially one that works, takes a bit more skill.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 06:12 PM

So soft the whisper
Much wiser the whisperer
who whispers nothing


How loud the braggart
much wiser the whisperer
Who whispers nothing


The public speaker
who, understanding nothing
Has so much to say

Haikus Old English poetic form




Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 05:26 PM

WAV, there is as much evidence, if not more, of chords being played than of any actual folk use of the recorder.
Cast your mind back to that pub you are so fond of picturing. The one by the river with the weeping willow and swans which glide majestically upon the silvery waters. Take your eyes off of that clog dancer for a moment, and put down your tankard of much-loved ale, I would like to draw your attention an object standing in the corner. Yes, a piano. Has nobody ever gathered round it to sing trad songs? CHords feature heavily in the use of the instrument.
So, if it was alright for them to gather round the piano in the pub and play chords, then why can't Dick Miles play chords on his concertinas?

"...if you want to carry on with it "Did you read it WAV or conveniently ignore it?Stu" is not perfect either. And, also above, you delight in a "poet" that makes no effort to use the traditional metre and/or rhyme that poets stuck to for centuries."

And which metre would that be? Iambic pentameter, trochee, catalectic, dactylic hexameter, elegaic distich, alliterative verse, accentual, accentual-syllabic, common meter, iambic, tetrameter,alexandrine, hendecasyllable, the list goes on and on..... There are dozens, if not hundreds of ways for a poem to work, WAV. There is no 'right' way, there is no 'wrong' way, it all depends on the poet, his skill and what he set out to do. An important part of any art form is knowing HOW TO BREAK THE RULES AND WHEN.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 04:51 PM

"And CB - you accompany your songs with chords NOT tunes, yes? Playing chords is NOT what English folkies, nor those in the country you've emigrated to, have done for centuries. Have you tried to learn to play the tunes you are singing, or should be singing to? I have heard someone play the tune they are singing on a concertina, and it sounded great."

I can't help but conclude from what WAV says here that his understanding of music in general and folk music in particular is even less that rudimentary.

I have heard singers accompany themselves on the concertina, and often it does indeed sound very good. But I have also noted that those who are not very proficient with the instrument often play the same line that they are singing. However, those who are more adept (and whose mind can encompass the concept) tend to play a harmony line with what they are singing, often interspersing a phrase from the melody line, or a variation thereof, between verses.

Perhaps, since one cannot play the recorder and sing at the same time, WAV hasn't grasped the concept of "accompaniment."

As to playing chords with English folk songs, indeed most traditional singers tend to sing without any accompaniment at all. However, some do accompany themselves on one instrument or another--probably whatever is at hand and with which they are acquainted. There is nothing inherent in English folk music which says that they should not be accompanied--by whatever instrument the singer choses or happens to have available.

I'm afraid WAV speaks from lack of knowledge, and more unfotunately, he seems to be unaware of how ignorant he is. Banging on a pot is loudest when the pot is empty.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 04:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1PaQaNH9
now this song shows how versatile the English Concertina is.
WAV.open your ears,most of the time I am playing melody with chords,sometimes I vary it by dropping the melody and playing chords on the first few bars

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=4507
hereis dillpickle rag

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 04:28 PM

the English can be played like a duet as well,its difficult.
http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=4505 here is an example.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 03:55 PM

WAV.
You've played nicely(?) into my hands.
I play McCann Duet concertina.
The whole point of this instrument is to accompany oneself.
(Imagine a Harmonium in a box)
If I were you, I'd check out, Alexander Prince, Iris Bishop, Gavin Atkin, Michael Hebbert, Peter Honri.
When you have discovered these amazing musicians, Then get back to me.
Alistair Anderson plays the English system (Jolly well), but, the English doesn't lend itself, easily, to harmony playing (well it does, but you've got to be very good to make it work!)
You obviously don't have the faintest idea of the differences between the systems.
Go Study.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 02:04 PM

I didn't say playing the concertina for centuries - I said TUNES rather than chords.
And I am interested in the concertina, and have read A. Anderson's book on it, where, from memory, he mainly instructs folks in playing TUNES, and only briefly, perhaps reluctantly, mentions how to play chords.
Also from memory, on the "Chords in Folk?" thread, you were always agruing for folk accompaniment with chords, were you not..? But I apologise for not knowing that you play the tune sometimes/ on "occasions", and repeat that just the tune, on a concertina, as an accompaniment can sound great, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM

Sorry WAV

"Did ,you, read it, or, conveniently , ignore, it Stu.

Prose is words in order; good prose is words in the best order; poetry is the bst words in the best order. Rhyme and scansion don't make good poetry.

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:34 PM

WAV you again express your ignorance.
I employ many different techniques.,including playing the tune,in fact IF you bothered to listen to my cds and clips on you tube,there are occasions when I play the tune.When singing.
yes i frequently play the tune,here are some examples,adieu sweet lovely nancy[you tube],live not where i love, bogies bonny belle,streams of lovely nancy.,Barbara Allen[you tube],ball of yarn[youtube].just as the tideis flowing [myspace]
but you see because Iam skilled,I am playing the tune with chords.
most other professional performers,SteveTurner,Louis killen,keith kendrick, Damien Barber,do the same thing play melody with chords.they also play chords without melody,when they choose.
I also play single line harmony with my voice.
you are ignorant about the concertina too,it was only invented in 1843,so it is a victorian instrument,people have not been playing it for centuries.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:22 PM

And CB - you accompany your songs with chords NOT tunes, yes?

WAV, please don't try to tell Dick Miles how to play. You'll only make yourself look even more ridiculous.

Could you answer my question? Ta.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:19 PM

...if you want to carry on with it "Did you read it WAV or conveniently ignore it?Stu" is not perfect either. And, also above, you delight in a "poet" that makes no effort to use the traditional metre and/or rhyme that poets stuck to for centuries.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM

I can't speak for the academic rigour of your course WAV but your English usage as seen here and on your website leaves much to be desired.

Just for qualification I shall say this once only, since my level of qualification and expertise is less than most of the Mudcat posters:

BA; CertEd; CertITO; FSBT; MU; MIfL; MUCU; and about thirty technical courses, five or six C&G qualifications; gigging musician; music teacher; Director of folk arts network, and Director of Folk Festival; published poet; published technical writer; 40yrs folkie. And I'm a new boy

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 12:46 PM

Stu - I got distinctions for the majority of my essays (which I've kept) during my anthropology major...although I confess to having checked them more carefully than my posts here.
Ralphie and his friend CB - I've placed in a few NE folk-festival competitions (see here if you wish), where they don't have to award places, but do sometimes give feedback forms, which I've read and kept - much more positive than the last few OPINIONS.
And CB - you accompany your songs with chords NOT tunes, yes? Playing chords is NOT what English folkies, nor those in the country you've emigrated to, have done for centuries. Have you tried to learn to play the tunes you are singing, or should be singing to? I have heard someone play the tune they are singing on a concertina, and it sounded great.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 12:16 PM

"Here is an interesting question, who is going to regulate WAV's appalling spelling, horrid syntax and dreadful grammar?"

Hi V. I can put up with the grammatical faults.

It's just that he goes on and on about English needing to be standardised and regulated.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 12:10 PM

But, he has placed his musical (?) works on his MySpace page.(Big Mistake IMO). It means that we can all hear his work in all it's glory(?)
Basically, having listened to it, The guy can't play, and has no sense of pitch, and even worse....It's very, very dull.[quote Ralphie]
...WAV,I have heard Ralphie play and he is good.
WAV,my advice to be to you would be get some violin lessons,and a bit of vocal training,this will improve your pitch,intonation,abilty to sing in tune etc.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 11:56 AM

I find , the ,unnecessary,commas, and strange use of eg eg is disconcerting.

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 10:08 AM

From Volgadon

"Here is an interesting question, who is going to regulate WAV's appalling spelling, horrid syntax and dreadful grammar?"

Hi V. I can put up with the grammatical faults.
Could be dyslexia, or any, many other reasons for that. Not a problem. Lots of very erudite people have issues with communicating.
But, he has placed his musical (?) works on his MySpace page.(Big Mistake IMO). It means that we can all hear his work in all it's glory(?)
Basically, having listened to it, The guy can't play, and has no sense of pitch, and even worse....It's very, very dull.
If the Portsmouth Sinfonia ever needed a vocalist, he wouldn't even have to take an audition.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 09:48 AM

"WAVs theory of Monoculturalism" (Pip)...ridiculous...I love our WORLD being multicultural, and will continue to respond ("be arsed", in Ralphies's language) to such rubbish.

Nobody's accused you of wanting the entire world to have a single culture; I don't think anyone in the history of the world has had that particular ambition. What Ralphie is, fairly obviously, talking about is your belief that each country should be monocultural - what I referred to above as a dream of a world where Fredland is full of Freddish people doing Freddish things, Bertland is full of Bertish people doing Bertish things, and so on all round the globe.

Is that an incorrect summary of your views? If so, in what way?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 08:52 AM

"Could cut and paste, but I can't be arsed.
Goodbye" (Ralphie)...perhaps someone could keep an eye on our friend...that could be painful!
"WAVs theory of Monoculturalism" (Pip)...ridiculous...I love our WORLD being multicultural, and will continue to respond ("be arsed", in Ralphies's language) to such rubbish.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 08:34 AM

Ralphie,

Allow me:

what this thread is really about, is WAVs theory of Monoculturalism.....(again)

With great trepidation I finally plucked up courage to visit WAVs MySpace page and sampled some of his recordings.
Just to say that it confirmed all my worst fears.

So, is this a first? A thread hi-jacked by its originator?
With a link to his own websites in every post, one has to come to the conclusion that this thread is the work of a delusional fantasist.
The rest of us got sucked in by its title.
Time to let it die now, please.
WAV. (No reply required, or indeed wanted)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 08:18 AM

"Sometimes on forums I get criticised for being dull and repetative, other times too colourful in my language."

It's not being dull that bothers people, it's the parrot-like repetition of quotes from your own personal canon instead of engaging in discussion.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 08:16 AM

Same what applies?

"your smattering of education" (Tim)...4 technical certificates and a degree in humanities...I was accepted for post grad. study, by the way, but chose not to devote several years to one or two micro matters; however, for what it's worth, I think achieving a Masters or a Doctorite is a good achievement...but I chose to produce you know what, lookihg at most of the big issues, instead.

Shame, you might have learned how to look at an issue in detail and not make sweeping pronouncements.

Here is an interesting question, who is going to regulate WAV's appalling spelling, horrid syntax and dreadful grammar?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 05:22 AM

WAV

I refer you to my message in the English Instruments thread.
The same applies here.
Could cut and paste, but I can't be arsed.
Goodbye

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 05:02 AM

"your smattering of education" (Tim)...4 technical certificates and a degree in humanities

All right, all right, you're the only person here who can drive a fork-lift. Happy now?

Seriously - and I mean this as constructive advice - I think shutting up about the technical certificates would be a good idea.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 04:44 AM

"your smattering of education" (Tim)...4 technical certificates and a degree in humanities...I was accepted for post grad. study, by the way, but chose not to devote several years to one or two micro matters; however, for what it's worth, I think achieving a Masters or a Doctorite is a good achievement...but I chose to produce you know what, lookihg at most of the big issues, instead.
"if you got out more" (Tim)...about 40 countries on a shoestring.
"These arguments are now making me angry" (Tim)...I agree.

Volgadon - same applies to you, it seems; e.g., I think it's good that people from all walks of life now practise/perform their own traditional music...I just wish the percentages were a LOT higher.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:24 PM

"Just by the way - on the Antiques roadshow there was a very nice old banjo, smooth arm, made in Newcastle upon Tyne about a hundred years ago" (Stu)...noticed that...but never an English cittern on that programme."
Possibly because very few people have 400 year old instruments lying around the house. I don't think it's a pro-immigrationist and multiculturalist plot against England's own good culture.

"Here are some of the factors that define English folk, in my opinion, for Tiger Tim (but I couldn't put a number on your other questions, under #1)...
A music of miners, farmers, fishermen, and other working folk, now performed by all sorts."

This is fascinating. Look at that last sentance.
A music of miners, farmers, fishermen, and other working folk, now performed by all sorts.
Why the NOW? Who gave you the right to decide, according to your own you shouldn't be allowed to sing songs of miners, farmer and fishermen, because it isn't part of YOUR own good culture. The downside is that I don't think I know any traditional songs of forklift operators or ethnologists......

"racial purity" (IB)...I've only ever mentioned culture NOT race in questioning the act of immigration itself - NOT any particular race; and here's another example of your deluded attempts at analysis, IB -"

You don't seem to mind if someone like GERMANS brings something to England. Shall I quote you?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM

Ok, WAV; do you or do you not believe that each country should practise its own native culture and exclude cultures from elsewhere? If you do, that means that it is not desirable for one culture to learn from another (as this would pollute their 'own good culture'), Much of human and societal development has occurred through the cross-fertilisation of cultures; the Renaissance springs to mind. Your proposed system of cultural apartheid would prevent this, and therefore the process of development would be disadvantaged.

Human beings are social and inquisitive creatures WAV (you could be too, if you got out more), and trying to place artificial boundaries on their interactions and what they learn and absorb from those interactions is tantamount to fascism, and certainly would need the worst kind of totalitarianism to make it stick.

My reasons for teasing you about various things was to try to get you to engage in dialogue, and stop simply repeating the same mantras with no sign of having learned anything. You are still trying to defend your various positions by repeating the same forms of words you use on your (by now) utterly discredited websites.

Intelligent people can be characterised by their ability to enquire, learn and adapt, and to make rational judgements on the evidence before them in particular situations. This list is full of highly intelligent, rational, skilled and generous people (I exclude myself from all of those epithets, by the way; I am a neophyte in comparison to many of the Titans here). Many of them have tried to engage with you; Eliza Carthy talking to you about folk music springs to mind. They have disproved your assertions beyond any reasonable doubt over and over again, and you still continue to 'chant' the same tired old slogans. Almost without exception, you have simply dismissed or ignored their contributions, preferring to repeat your reactionary, racist, xenophobic and sexist tosh.
That forces me to one conclusion, WAV; it's a waste of my time, and everyone else's time trying to engage with you; you are not able (despite your smattering of education) to engage in civilised dialogue.
This is my last comment on any of your threads; These arguments are now making me angry, and you and your views are not worth my anger. I wish you well for the rest of your life, sad and lonely though it currently is. I hope you find happiness and fullfilment in some shape or form. If you ever do have the moral courage to stand for election to test your views against what the English public truly believe, I will gladly come to wherever you are standing and campaign implacably against you and all you stand for.
Tim
PS I don't want a reply. Even if you do, I won't be reading it.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:34 PM

No, I'm afraid you've lost me there, WAV. Imperialism??? Eh?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:24 PM

"Where did I mention imperialism? Try to stick to the points raised." (Tim) and, earlier, "all human progress from now on should be subject to his warped view of Englishness" (Tim)...if that was true, and it certanily isn't, it would be fairly close to an imperialistic idea...and then you lose it completely, perhaps in a rush of sorts.
And the same may apply to you, Volgadon...
"I.e., of course it's a good thing that women now have the vote here." (me)..."I think we all understood that you implied that it would be better had women still been banned from marathons, and apparently, from the vote as well" (Volgadon).

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:03 PM

'And that's a ridiculous post, Tim - I love the world being multicultural and hate imperialism (be it Nazi, Victorian, or any other). And are you sure all modern women wish to be masculine?...When catwalk models occasionally make the news for London Fashion Week or whatever, the trend still seems to be for femininity NOT bulging masculine muscles and veins.'

Just repeating things doesn't make them true, you muppet, despite Goebbels' views on the subject. You don't love the world being multicultural; you want each part of the world to be monocultural.

Where did I mention imperialism? Try to stick to the points raised.

I didn't say all or any modern women want to be masculine; that appears to be your fantasy, not mine WAV. How come you are so sure all modern women want to meet your stereotype of femininity?

Still no date though, eh?
Tim

PS; I do apologise for calling you an Obergruppenfuhrer. That's a military rank you would never achieve. I should have said Gauleiter.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 02:02 PM

If by femininity you mean scarecrow looks, I'm not sure that bulging muscles isn't better, at any rate, healthier.

I think we all understood that you implied that it would be better had women still been banned from marathons, and apparently, from the vote as well.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 01:50 PM

I prefer the challenge and effect of trying to say things WITHIN the poetry traditions of metre and/or rhyme, Stu...but I do like her "Albert Einstein, life-size bronze".

Poem 148 of 230: AUDIENCE LOST

I returned, again,
    To what they pen -
The free-verse poets:
    Deep prose in sets...
I could read, again,
    Of Mice and Men.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

And that's a ridiculous post, Tim - I love the world being multicultural and hate imperialism (be it Nazi, Victorian, or any other). And are you sure all modern women wish to be masculine?...When catwalk models occasionally make the news for London Fashion Week or whatever, the trend still seems to be for femininity NOT bulging masculine muscles and veins.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM

In this context, becoming Archbishop of Canterbury and playing tennis are the same thing WAV; women should be able to do both if they have the ability and IF THEY WISH TO !!!! Without being forbidden to do so by an anachronistic, self obsessed, racist and sexist obergruppenfuhrer who thinks the world should bend to his will and thinks that all all human progress from now on should be subject to his warped view of Englishness, cultural separation and rules of femininity.

You don't have much experience with women, do you WAV? Most of the women I know would have one of two reactions to your views; helpless, mocking laughter or raging anger. Neither will really help you get a date, will they?
Tim
PS you still haven't answered most of my questions. Your efforts to do so above don't even come close.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 01:02 PM

Did you read it WAV or conveniently ignore it?Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM

"SPOT THE DIFFERENCE COMPETITION

WAV
"Not that long ago it WAS illegal for women to run a Marathon"

ME
"Not that long ago it WAS illegal for women to have the vote"

No prizes. Just a bit of fun." (Ralphie)...there is no difference - as you may have gathered if you'd read my earlier post about being quite happy for the next Archbishop of Canterbury to be a femal, e.g. I.e., of course it's a good thing that women now have the vote here. But can you live with the fact that you agree with me on something?!

Joe - "What about music by groups such as Faustus? Certainly the accompaniament is far from light, yet it is considered by many to be traditional English folk music. How would you define such a group?"...untraditional.

Catspaw - get back to your "dung-heap" IN your kitty litter.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:36 AM

PS and poetically.

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:27 AM

Your "Life's Work" is a giant, festering, maggot-ridden, dung heap. Referring to it simply proves you're an ass and nothing else. I'm sure your mother is ashamed of you although she may be too busy scratching her ass and digging for grubs to tell you.

Best Regards,

Spaw

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: s&r
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:19 AM

Read this WAV and weep. Learn a little bit about women, and a little bit about how to write compellingly.

Read, and weep for your lack of comprehension.

Stu

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Joe P
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:52 AM

You turned down a contract abroad, instead opting for unemployment?

And if we dont know the author of a folk song, how do we know it is English? What about the songs of fishermen in India? By your rule they count as English fok songs!

What about music by groups such as Faustus? Certainly the accompaniament is far from light, yet it is considered by many to be traditional English folk music. How would you define such a group?

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:52 AM

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE COMPETITION

WAV
"Not that long ago it WAS illegal for women to run a Marathon"

ME
"Not that long ago it WAS illegal for women to have the vote"

No prizes. Just a bit of fun.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 08:49 AM

No, WAV. I'm a regulationist myself, if that means that not everyone should be allowed to do everything they want whenever they want. You believe in regulating people according to their sex and their nationality/culture. Your version of regulation is both sexist and racist.

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 08:44 AM

Yes, WR, and although I certainly don't hate the Dutch and have indeed enjoyed a VISIT to The Netherlands/Holland, I chose to turn down a contract in Rotterdam, because I am not a Dutchman - BUT I should NOT have had that choice in the first place.
And, not that long ago, it WAS illegal for a female to run a marathon, e.g.
Through my life's work, it should be clear that, above all, I am a regulationist. "Liberty, as surfeit, is the father of much fast" (William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure).

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 07:51 AM

Ooh, racism and sexism. Actually, this might offer a learning opportunity. Once more unto the OED, dear friends:

Sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex

Nobody's saying you hate women, WAV. Just that you believe that women should be prevented from doing certain things and encouraged to do certain others - all women, whatever any individual woman may want to do herself - because they're women. That's what's called sexism.

Similarly, nobody's saying you hate non-English people...

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 07:19 AM

Seeing as WAV has made the enourmous effort to come back to the land of his birth from the other side of the world. Surely, as caring, concerned Brits, we should assist him on the final (as yet, unfinished) part of his journey, and send him to Coventry!

(apologies to residents of Coventry!)

Subject: RE: '5000 Morris Dancers'
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 07:04 AM

Nice, Spaw. I think you can add lots of South African politicians as well!
Tim