BS: A Ridiculous Request

Subject: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 04:39 PM

As many of you know, The Borderline Folk Music Club, of which I am the chairman, is sponsoring a fundraiser for the 30th annual Mystic Folk Festival at which many mudcatters will be donating their services as performers. The event is being held on Sunday, April 19th at the New City Volunteer Ambulance Corps.

My wife went in to our local Shop Rite supermarket in New City yesterday and asked for a donation of some food for the event. They told her that her request had to be submitted in writing to company headquarters.

She was further told that no request for donations would be considered unless it was accompanied by A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE.

Can someone please tell my why in heaven's name would I have to purchase an insurance policy to accept a donation of food from a local supermarket for a charity event?

SOL

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 04:50 PM

They want you to have coverage so they won't be liable in the event of a problem with the food, i.e., mass poisoning or suchlike.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Maryrrf
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 05:12 PM

I don't know if this idea would help, but when I asked for donations from a local supermarket they gave me gift certificates so that I could purchase food from their store. That way they wouldn't be liable in the same way as if they had donated the food directly. It sounds silly but in these days of lawsuits one never knows.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 05:41 PM

Our local bank removed their bulletin board where the public was able to post notices. Apparently someone got injured at an event and just because the flyer was posted on the bulletin board the bank was named a defendant in the lawsuit, even though they had nothing to do with it. Apparently the bank was the only one with deep pockets and that was all the lawyers were interested in.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 05:42 PM

Don't shop at that Suppermarket! They don't give you a Certificate of Insurance with the stuff you buy, do they?

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Melissa
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 06:30 PM

Maybe it's their fancy, indirect way of trying to make sure they're only donating to 'real' Good Causes? A sort of Elimination Process to sort out the disreputable fakers that most businesses seem to smell lurking around every corner?

I imagine it does cut down on the number of applications they screen each month..whether that's their intention or not.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 07:22 PM

I think that Melissa has hit the nail on the head. By making it difficult it will discourgage those causes that do not have money to begin with to purchase insurance from applying. They will only give their money to high profile causes which will get them noteriety and good press in the community. The Mystic Sea Musical festival does not qualify be their standards.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 10:01 PM

I'm not allowed to have a kids' birthday party at my local community center unless I get it named as an additional insured on my policy (which is a LOT smarter than asking to see a certificate of insurance for you.)

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 01 Apr 09 - 10:33 PM

The ambulance corps did not ask me for a certificate of insurance to use their auditorium as a venue and I am sure that would be a greater liability risk than donating food. It is cheaper to pay for the food than to pay for an insurance policy to get it donated. It is just Shop Rite's way of saying no and having an excuse to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 08:00 AM

So........you're running a festival without insurance???

You're a braver man than I am, Gunga Sol. As the Oirish comedian, Dave Allen, used to say at the close of his show, "May your God go with you"! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 09:37 AM

Can't you approach an insurance company & ask for a donation in the form of some insurance?

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: maire-aine
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 09:40 AM

Hi, Rabbi-Sol. My reaction is similar to Backwoodsman's. You might want to seriously consider a one-time policy for the event. Prices might be reasonable if you shop around. Maybe you already know a friendly agent.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 10:03 AM

I think it is very dangerous to run events without insurance - for both the organizers and especially for the audience. The policies are not as expensive - especially if you run a series. If your ambulance corp is not requesting a certificate, they are probably putting themselves and the town they serve at risk. It is common practice to be insured for public events and there are numerous companies that specialize in working with non-profit groups to provide low cost coverage.

I think that your Shop Rite is being very reasonable and properly cautious. Most supermarkets will be glad to help if you follow their requests.

The days of the Andy Hardy "lets get the kids together and put on a show in the barn" are long gone!

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: artbrooks
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 11:21 AM

The Albuquerque Folk Festival (June 19-20 - y'all come!) is very well insured - we couldn't get commercial vendors or hold it at the fair grounds if we weren't. I'd join the throngs urging you to look into it. If the program isn't insured, and someone is hurt, the injured party will go after the organizers. You have an extra $5 million, Sol?

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 03:03 PM

Festivals are usually business ventures designed to make profit for the organizers. Even a well established non-profit such as Pinewoods, Hurdy Gurdy, Clearwater, or Folk Project make money off their events. The Borderline operates as a house concert and all money taken in goes directly to the performers. In this case 100% of the money taken in goes to support the Mystic Festival since all of the performers are donating their services gratis. This is a pot luck event so everybody will be bringing food to share with one another. What we were looking for from ShopRite was donations of soft drinks and bottled water. Even though this event is not being held in a house because we want the additional capacity to raise more $$$ for Mystic, it is operating on the same principle. I do not take out an insurance policy for house concerts and neither does any other house concert presenter that I know and I am in touch wih all of them. The home owners insurance covers private parties and that is what a house concert is. The ambulance corps venue operates on the same principle. I was able to secure it free of charge because my chief volunteer is the President of that organization. They do not rent it out to other organizations for a fee. Members of the Corps can use it for their own private parties free of charge and this event is a private party for the President's own folk music club. He does not feel that an insurance certificate is necessary.
The only rule that has to be followed is NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES allowed on the premises. If we have to pay for an insurance policy it is no longer a private party but a business and then we have to worry about the ASCAP & BMI folks as well. The only extra expense that we have is the Sound Engineer who is bringing the sound system and I am personally paying him out of my own pocket. Nothing at all is going to come out of Mystic's pocket. They get everything.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 03:49 PM

"Even a well established non-profit such as Pinewoods, Hurdy Gurdy, Clearwater, or Folk Project make money off their events."

With all due respect, you are making an assumption with that statement and I can tell you that in at least two of the organizations you mention it is not true.   

I will say that the Hurdy Gurdy does earn money during our regular concert season (which goes to operating costs and donations to other community events. No volunteer makes a dime.) When we produce a "benefit" concert there are different policies in our case. There is a difference between paying expenses and making "money off" an event.

Please don't get me wrong – I think what the Borderline is doing is a wonderful thing. I applaud you and your volunteers for taking on this worthy cause.

However, you cannot make assumptions and then blame other organizations like Shop Rite when they are trying to do the right thing.

You are no longer a private party once you advertise and invite the public - as you do here on Mudcat and your website. House concerts deal with the same issue. The wording of your notices does not come across as a private invitation.

Your initial posting in the other thread reads :

"There will be a Mystic Festival preview concert at The Borderline Folk Music Club of Rockland County, NY on Sunday, April 19th.

The venue will be the New City Volunteer Ambulance Corps. building located at 200 - Congers Road, New City, NY 10956 (across the street from Clarkstown North High School.

We will start the festivities at 12 Noon and run until 5 PM.
Admission will be $20 per person with all proceeds going to Friends Of The Festival. We will begin with a pot luck lunch and 12 Noon."

No mention of private party or even "suggested donation". You call it a concert and state an admission price. You invite the public.   

You can't have your cake and eat it too, and expect not to pay the baker!

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 03:53 PM

By the way - the idea of a "private party" is probably why Shop Rite is checking for insurance in the first place!

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 04:51 PM

While I respect what you do for folk music I would like to add a couple of thoughts that might be of interest. Many years ago I ran an annual benefit concert at the local high school (for 5 years). The school insisted that we show them an insurance policy for the day and also that they are named in it. We also had to pay for janitorial services. A most understandable request in this litigous society we live in. We also either purchased refreshments or had some of our volunteers bake some items.

A personal tale of litigation---and why people do not want to get involved. Some years back I institued a medical malpractice suit against a truly incompetent doctor (The only law suit I ever filed) and 3 law firms refused me because I did not want to sue everyone in sight--doctors, hospitals, etc; How could I morally since these people were helpful and caring.In the end, I used a local attorney who accepted the case and after 9 yrs decided it was not worth his effort anymore so he asked to be removed. He was--by the local judge. The ALA agreed it was incompetent lawyering but did not rise to malpractice. I owed non-existent court costs.

My point in that tale is that there is no morality in our litigous society and you either go along with it or do not get involved in the first place.

Now, as to your "benefit" concert. Is it really that?   It is a preview of an ongoing festival. Sort of like the Falcon Ridge Preview Tour. My understanding is that it (Mystic) is a private venture---correct me if I am wrong on that. Given that it is not a benefit for some group like the "starving 2 headed children of Upper Slobodia".   Then, I suppose, a different take would be appropriate in your request for food.

Ron did not mention this. Probably too modest. He organized a wonderful event for WFDU which we both hosted under the auspices of the Hurdy Gurdy Folk Music Club. The hall was paid for, the food was paid for, the ticket price reasonable (actually lower than yours), and as the cliche goes---a good time was had by all. And the station rcvd. much needed funds in its fund raising efforts.

As you know I host the Sunday Simcha program on said station so you willl know the expression I used to some of our listeners during fund raising month who kept calling for requests but never a donation---"...either pay your way or you are a "schnorer".

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 05:00 PM

Gentlemen - welome to capitalism. Now you have seen it, will you help me in seeking to destroy it?

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Melissa
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 05:27 PM

Even if the store requiring proof-of-insurance request is reasonable..why would their risk be any different if the drinks were bought at their store than if they were donated?

I understand the practicality of whoever's building/property is being used wanting to make sure their place is being used by someone who has adequate coverage.
I think it's absurd for the store to ask for proof and I can't see any logic in it unless it was part of their weeding process. It seems like they were asking for information that's none of their business.

If they can't donate drinks, why would it be safe to sell drinks to the organizers?
It's the same drinks and the same event.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 06:07 PM

Hi Bill,

With all due respect, please allow me to correct your statement that Mystic is equal to Falcon Ridge and therefore our event is not a legitimate fundraiser. To the best of my knowledge, the Falcon Ridge Folk Festival is a "for profit" business venture. Therefore a Falcon Ridge preview, many of which were held last year, could not be considered a benefit.

Mystic, on the other hand, is NOT a private venture as you state in your post. Mystic Seaport Museum is a non-profit organization and is so recognized by the IRS as it holds a 501-C-3 certificate issued by the government to prove it. You can check it out yourself on the IRS website. The "Friends Of The Festival" is a division of Mystic Seaport just like your radio station WFDU is a division of Farliegh Dickinson University.

This year, due to the economy, Mystic Seaport would not have been able to put on the 30th annual festival unless $10,000 was raised by the Friends Of The Festival. Therefore, folks like Charlie Baum in Washington DC, myself in Rockland County, and Marc Bernier up in Connecticut, undertook to raise this money to keep the Sea Music Festival alive. It is almost exactly the same situation as you have with WFDU. Your fundraising appeals over the air constantly reminded us listeners that with out our support, the radio station might decide to replace "Traditions" with a more popular genre such as your rivals in the Bronx (I will not mention the station), have done.

Therefore, what you and Ron have done this past weekend at the Hurdy Gurdy, and what we are doing April 19th at The Borderline are BOTH considered legitimate benefits. In both cases the musicians are donating their services and Mystic Seaport (in your case Farliegh Dickinson U.), are reaping the full benefit of the suggested donations. If you read my flyer carefully (it was e-mailed to you and Ron) you will see that it says suggested donation and not admission fee just like my regular house concerts do. The truth of the matter is that if someone can not afford the suggested donation they are never turned away and are let in for whatever they are willing to donate, no matter how small.

Even the regular (non-benefit) Borderline concerts that we run are never money makers because unlike other house concerts, we post guarantees to our performers. In fact I can truly say that I personally loose between $100 and $300 on each concert that we run.
This I because I feel that it is important to keep this kind of music alive and support the artists that perform it. You know Bill that I live in a heavily Orthodox neighborhood where my bell is rung at least 5 times a week by people with their hands out for worthy charities as well as my mail box being full of like minded solicitations. I try to give everybody what I could and if some of these local folks knew what I was expending on Folk Music they would literally run me out of the neighborhood.

To try to characterize me as a "schnorer", however indirectly, because I do not publicly contribute to WFDU is I believe going a little too far and is not in keeping with the spirit of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 06:12 PM

Melissa: I am not an attorney but one has to believe that a sale to an unknown party is just that--a sale. If there is something wrong with the product then they are liable and might get sued and are insured. Donating the saame items might, in my opinion, make them a party to the event (i.e. a sponsor) and liable--given our litigous nature sue everyone in sight (see above). It would not have to be a food induced problem--a fall, a chandelier drops on your head, etc;

Frankly, the organizers of the affair and those supplying the site are putting themselves at great risk to save a few bucks by not having insurance---again see above and my concerts at the local HS. Forget this "house concrt" nonsense. If a homeowners policy covers (doubtful for an event you are charging for) a concert who knows how much the insurance will cover given what some litigants ask for---my goodness--a hangnail worth $1,000,000.00. Hell of a hangnail.

By the way---not that I really care but the firehouse being used for parties also puts the place at risk---though I sincerely doubt they don't have insurance. As to local firehouses and the taxpayers---let me start on that road.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: SussexCarole
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 06:15 PM

...ends up with a ridiculous offer that you may wish to refuse....If you want food to support the raffle for Mystic we'll start an international fund and send you Welsh cockles & laverbread & Welshcakes. Pm your addy

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Melissa
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 06:38 PM

maybe so..I happen to think that the societal insistence on acting like everybody is going to sue us all the time, looking over our shoulder instead of looking ahead and tending our own lives, is unhealthy for us all.
It isolates us in a creepy bubble of mistrust.

I also think that community events are an excellent use of firehouses, community halls, libraries, churches, schools..etc. Sure, taxpayers pay for the insurance and all that.
Taxpayers are sometimes also called Members of the Community and I think most things that provide a good gathering place for folks are a Positive.
It's a shame that we allow litigiousness and distrust to limit our enjoyment of life.

Drinks would be a packaged product. Whether they were sold or donated, tainted product would logically fall back on the packager unless the store happens to make it's own soda and bottled water.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 06:50 PM

Sol: I really have to respond and shall do so with numbered items so as not to make this interminably long":

1) I had asked to be corrected re: Mystic--you have done that,ifin fact you are correct.

2) Mystic may be a part of the museum but the "friends" are putting on a festival in hopes of making a profit---just like Falcon Ridge (which is a profit making venture albeit one that promotes upcoming artists)

3) WFDU is the radio station connected with Farleigh Dickinsen Univ. It is a separate entity and I don't know or want to get into the legalisms of the budgetary constraints on the station.

4) WFDU has an annual fundraiser (pledge drive) to cover the expenses for technical advances and maintenance. The "OnAir" people (Ron and I--et al) do not receive any renumeration.

5) While you did not pledge (and the station did promote your events--what other station would do that?) I never mentioned or inferred that in my earlier posting. You brought that up. I was referring to trying to get food for nothing like my callers to Sunday Simcha---which you were not part of---who knows--maybe you do listen.

6)   To respond to your other comment re: the unnamed radio station---come on we all know that is WFUV and has, except for its weekend programming, turned into a pretty commercial sounding station and I agree with you that is how their programming is or has evolved.

7)   I think it is admirable what you do for "folk" music and also that you donate to people that ring your bell---no pun intended. Your statement---"...if they knew about my folk music involvement (paraphrase") they would run me out of town". Sad---how narrow are these folks?

8) Lastly; you lose money on most house concerts---You know what so do other venues. Including the Hurdy Gurdy. So, from time to time, they also would need a benefit (which they have not had) but still they buy the food and don't complain about it.\

Sorry if this sounds harsh but it a realistic response to your comments that did not address the key issues but assumed some things that were not mentioned---including your lack of donating to WFDU. If it went to your bell ringers then all I can say it was a "mitzvah" and WFDU will surely not fault that.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 08:59 PM

I think this thread has crept away from it's original discussion and that is not becoming of any of us.

Sol, I think the benefit is a great idea and I applaud you for doing it. I hope to be there. I think it is noble that you and your wife are spending the time trying to get donations so that Mystic will get every penny they can. I also applaud all the musicians who are traveling to participate and help out.

With that said, I still stand by my original post that I think you are wrong to fault Shop Rite for requesting a certificate of insurance. I think their request probably has less to do with saving their ass from a lawsuit and probably has everything to do with making sure their donation goes to a legit cause.

It does seem like you are trying to have it both ways. In this thread you are claiming it as a "private party", but your flyer and your postings do not mention "private" AND you also call the club a "totally nonprofit group". By totally "nonprofit", that infers that you have 501c3 status and can legally accept donations.

Insurance? It is your choice and gamble. Insurance is not as expensive as you might think.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 09:38 PM

Hi Ron,
      
The Borderline does not as yet have 501-C-3 status which takes a $750 application fee and $1,500 in lawyers fees to obtain. In reality however we are non-profit because all monies taken in go directly to the performers. Before 9/11 obtaining a 501-C3 was relatively easy and most of the established folk clubs such as Hurdy Gurdy already had it pre 9/11 and in the interim were able to build up a sizable treasury. We started only 4 years ago post 9/11 and the 501C-3 application is 50 pages long and at present we are waiting for an attorney and accountant to donate their services pro-bono. Therefore we have no treasury or bank account. We take the suggested donation in cash and merely transfer that cash to the performer's pocket. If we do not have a large enough audience to satisfy the guarantee, I pay the difference out of my own pocket.

This event, however is being run under the auspices of Mystic Seaport which does have a 501-C-3. Therefore people will be able to make their checks out directly to Mystic Seaport and indicate at the bottom right that it is for Sea Music Festival '09. Since the checks are made out to a legitimate non-profit, the suggested donations will be tax deductable as well. All monies taken in will be given to Geoff Kaufman who will take them directly to Donna at the Seaport.

ShopRite has 4 stores in Rockland County and prominently display our flyers in all of them. It's not like we are an unknown entity to them. However the local managers have no power to do anything. We have to submit the request in writing along with the certificate of insurance to their executive offices in Paramus, NJ where we are unknown. That is the crux of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 10:24 PM

Hi Sol,

The Hurdy Gurdy is actually a 501c4 recongized in the State of New Jersey - a not-for-profit as opposed to non-profit. Similar, but we cannot apply for most grants and other limitations. Yes, the application and other requirements are relatively expensive, but there are ways to save on some of the fees.

Most house concerts that I am aware of operate in a similiar fashion to what you described. Usually performers do not receive a guarantee, so what you are doing is above and beyond the "norm".

Shop Rite does an enormous amount of charity work. They have a charities initiative called "Partners in Caring". Perhaps you have seen the logo in the store - two hands shanking in the form of a heart. Shop Rite has been working with food manufacturers to provide food and funds for the needy - everything from local food banks, homeless shelters to after school programs. They have donated millions over the years to fight hunger and help those in need. I've been aware of their work so that is one of the reasons why I was taken aback by your initial statement.

I know from my own town and my wifes experience with the Girl Scouts that local supermarkets will make donations if you follow their procedures.   While you may feel that presenting a tax exempt ID or a certificate of insurance is defeating your purpose, you need to realize that stores of this type are hit with numerous requests and they need to have some system for weeding out those that do not meet their requirements. You have a right to complain if you feel you are not being treaed fairly, but everyone has the right to set their own standards. You do not fit, so move on.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 11:19 PM

Hi Ron,
         The problem is that even if we wanted to procure a certificate of insurance, we would be unable to purchase it since we are not a legal entity. We are only an amalgamation of volunteers with no legal or financial structure.

We will try Stop N Shop, Pathmark, and some of the mom & pop stores in the area. I am sure that at least one of them will come through with something.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 09 - 11:29 PM

Good luck Sol!

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 03 Apr 09 - 11:09 AM

Sol: Just out of curiosity---will you be selling these food items? Since you are selling tickets would it not be appropriate to purchase said food items? Just part of the expense of tunning a show.

Bill

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 03 Apr 09 - 02:01 PM

Hi Bill,
          No. We will NOT be selling any food items. It has always been the policy of The Borderline to offer refreshments free and we will not change that for this show. As it is $20 is a high enough price to pay for a show in these hard economic times. I know that Hurdy Gurdy sells food but they only charge $15 for admission.

We are doing a pot luck lunch with everyone being asked to bring a dish to share with 6 people. The Borderline usually provides coffee, tea, soft drinks, bottled water & snacks free of charge.

The reason we are asking for donations this time is that we have to feed a huge amount of performers. When you count the individual members of singing groups such as Stout ( 5 people), Barnacle (4), The Johnson Girls (4) and all the other individual acts booked, we will have a total of 25 performers present. These performers, some of who are driving 6 hours from Maine, New Hampshire, & Rhode Island, will probably want to eat before the audience arrives with their pot luck dishes. Usually we only book a single performer or a duo or trio(The most we ever had was a 5 piece Bluegrass band), so this is never a problem. A festival such as this is an entirely different ballgame and will be a major learning experience for all of us. That is why we can use all the help we can get.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Apr 09 - 02:18 PM

"I know that Hurdy Gurdy sells food but they only charge $15 for admission."

I think we are mixing apples and oranges here and I do not want to confuse anyone who is reading this.

The Borderline is a "house concert" series run by volunteers without any sort of legal charter. Concerts are normally held in a living room without sound amplification.   I feel the Borderline does an incredible job and serve an important purpose in our community.

The Hurdy Gurdy Folk Music Club is a not-for-profit organization that is legally registered in the state of New Jersey. We present concerts in a 170 seat theater with all the bells and whistles of a professional performance space. We do sell coffee, tea and snacks and the little that we make goes into funding the club. Our ticket prices, for our regular concert series, are set based on costs required to book and stage a performance - and we try to keep the price as low as possible. We pay rent for the space, sound & stage crew, insurance and other incidentals. IF we manage to make a few dollars on a performance, the money raised usually offsets a concert that is a losing proposition. The Hurdy Gurdy tries to offer a diverse lineup and part of our "mission" is to give a stage to up-and-coming artists - and concerts of that type often lose money but help build an audience. The artists are paid, the members of our organization do not receive a dime. The Hurdy Gurdy also gives back to the community with donations to area charities from any profit we make.   When the Hurdy Gurdy produces a benefit concert, the idea is to raise as much possible while keeping our costs as low as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: GUEST,Bill Hahn
Date: 03 Apr 09 - 06:11 PM

Thanks, Ron, forthatverygood explanation to put tngs into perspective.And,Sol,Isee your point regarding the food issue. Now that it has been explained. I hasten to add that, as Ron states, the issues are different but it also has to be said that for store to donate for your concert is quite different than their donating to,say, a food pantry for the needy.

I suppose it is correct to say that it is only proper a business to sort out what it feels is a worthy cause---and, back to the topic, watch out for its liability issues

Subject: RE: BS: A Ridiculous Request
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 04 Apr 09 - 09:15 PM

Hi Bill,
          At least since the event takes place immediately after Passover there will be plenty of Matzah available. I think that what the sailors ate aboard the old whaling ships on long voyages was more akin to it than the bread we eat today. It will add a bit of authenticity to the afternoon.