BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:42 PM

"Brit" is in wide usage in the U. S. and Canada; it is fixed firmly in our vocabulary.
"True Brits" was the title of a three-month long screening last year of films made in GB? UK? Britain? That little island to the east of the puddle? ....., shown by the Kansas City, Mo., Public Library.

One of the co-sponsors was the Britcom Club, which shows British television and film comedies, organized by Kansas City Public Television.

"True Brit" is the title of a recent book featuring former Brit cartoonists who now live in the U. S.

Or should the appelation be expanded to "True Briton," as in the 18th c. English toast, and the old song once sung to "Hearts of Oak"?

Should John Cleese be condemmed for his contribution to the comic, "Superman, True Brit"?

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:41 PM

Canadians are those quiet, kinda nice folksie people, somewhat between a Brit and an American (though Canadians could be calle American, since they have a big chunk in one of the Americas, but they are mostly too kind to say so:).

Opinions are fine....but, they don't change much. So it's puzzling to me that they get in the way of some folks getting along. But, people discuss issues differently....and differ in what they see as important and even sacred.

You can encourage respect and civil manners....but sometimes youy need a big stick to encourage it....when things, or people get out of line and forget their manners (it's easy to do in the heat of an argument/discussion). But, to be effective, the big stick has to be used (when needed), or it will just become an ineffective ornament. Impacted people mostly whine, if they feel someone is listening.

So, I encourage rules of behaviour that are moderated fairly...and recommend they be applied reasonably and sparingly, but firmly when needed.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:36 PM

Not to put too fine a point on it, George had more than one set of dentures.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:20 PM

jo no I have my own , on my chest . thank you :Þ
kv Skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:12 PM

Anybody want a second-hand hair shirt?

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 04:03 PM

is it possible to have : Registration required!
and is it possible that every other day the system could scan
for words like ( Fokkings ) words or even every day and if it can find it , it will take out threads and automaticly make them off limits ?
I mean could the system cross exam the words , sorry if my english is not good .

nihh I am just wandering about this all .
this may well not be possible ?

all the best from the snowhouse in Iceland
Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:56 PM

With particular reference to Joes opening post, as far as I can see there is a very straightforward division of opinion:

Firstly:
The Majority of American based posters dislike BNP threads.
The Majority of UK posters feel they are very important.

Secondly:
Most American posters probably consider themselves Christian with a capital C, or small c.
Most UK posters probably consider themselves non-religious (small c christians and humanists included) and either agnostic or atheist.

As I mentioned previously when making a more subtle attempt to adress Joes opening issues regarding conflict over threads or comments pertaining to the BNP and Christianity:

"I think the problem 'of' Mudcat is that it's an American site playing host to a large UK membership.
Just like a country with another immigrant culture in it's midst. We have our own issues and our own threads covering them.
And we also tend to do things 'differently'."

Finally Spaw, you can kiss *my* 'fat English arse'..

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:51 PM

Haven't noticed the offending threads, I guess the casual user is not seeing all the ugliness that the moderators see. So first I would say, let's not let a little dirty tidal pool distress us, let's appreciate the vast ocean of good stuff right next door.

This site is supposed to be about music, with BS threads tolerated in the spirit of friendship, conversation, and discussion.   

There are three ways to deal with ugly contributions.

1. Disenfranchize problem posters bent on sowing hate or discord.

2. Delete nasty posts one at a time.

3. Or, and this is my preference, shut down and delete threads that start out nasty or become that way. Once the trolls and hostiles can no longer pursue their game, they go find a new playground.

Does that violate absolutely pure free speech? Yep. Does the Mudcat community have the right to bounce or thwart troublemakers? Yep.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:22 PM

Sharon, we are going to remedy that. I will be back on the East Coast for a ramble at some point, and you are at the top of the list.

Mr Lane - I second the utterances of Sinsull! If you're on the East Coast you had better get your arse(Brit spelling!) up this end of the country some fast. Otherwise you are in so much trouble.......

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:17 PM

Well, I apologise for falling into the sidetrack trap.
Please can we stick to the subject folks.
Unless of course. you are happy with the status quo.
In which case, I may as well give up now.

JM

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:16 PM

""Mike, no I didn't call my Pagan friend "a Christian", I called her "christian": meaning charitable, kind, forgiving. It's becoming a term less well used today. And I think unfortunately so.""

I agree with that Crow Sister, and may I say that I don't find any difficulty in interpreting your posts.

In relation to the above quote, I would state that I consider it more important, more fulfilling, and (in others) more admirable to be christian than to be A Christian.

As I have said above, I regard "christian" as an adjctive rather than a name.

If ever I have had problems with anything to do with religion, they have been with A Christian, never with christianity, or with A Muslim, never with Islam, etc. etc.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM

Loyalists are known to use Brit in a disparaging way as well.

(Now, if we start talking about Ireland, that should heat the thread up up once more...)

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:58 PM

WHO is at the TOP of your list, Mr. Lane?

HARUMPH!

Now it will get very nasty very fast.


And I want that #*@&@^@%$)?><:<#@$in' ring. NOW!

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:57 PM

I find the most frequent users of the word Brit, and in a most derogatory fashion at that, are members of the various Republican factions in Ireland. :)
When they say it, it really does sound like an insult!

JM

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:46 PM

Both of yuns are Easterners...

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 02:42 PM

"Hey, what happened?
I thought this was supposed to be the latest designated punch-up!"

Yeah CS.....Good point........Kiss my ass.......That's right......ass not arse you freakin' Brit!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:53 PM

Sharon, we are going to remedy that. I will be back on the East Coast for a ramble at some point, and you are at the top of the list.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:49 PM

Hey, what happened?
I thought this was supposed to be the latest designated punch-up!

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:46 PM

Hi, Mick: Why, yes, as a matter of fact, I do have a good sense of [stateside] humor if I do say so myself! Runs toward the ironic, it does. The pity is that I have a stodgy writing style.

Also a pity that we never met for that cup of coffee when you were in southern New Jersey (then you'd already know about my sense of humor!). I haven't forgotten -- you still owe me that cuppa! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:42 PM

PATIENCE

All things pass...Patience attains all it strives for.

               St. Theresa of Avila

--
Be kind whenever possible.
It is always possible.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:39 PM

Sharon, you are going to keep this up, and end up convincing me you have a great sense of humour......humor.....damn its hard when folks spell different...... that you really like a joke!

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:25 PM

Then maybe the mofo Georgie could get down with the gangtsa rap, gold teeth an all. Smoove.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:11 PM

Did Ben Franklin invent Poligrip ?

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:11 PM

Kendall is partial-ly right (get it? partial?). Anyway, a laser scan of one of Washington's four known sets of dentures, done at the National Museum of Dentistry in Baltimore, MD revealed: "The dentures are made from gold, ivory, lead, human and animal teeth (horse and donkey teeth were common components). The dentures had springs to help them open and bolts to hold them together." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6875436/

Here's another article, possibly the one where Kendall got the info about hippopotamus ivory. Human teeth were in that set of dentures also. Another set was made partly of gold: http://www.americanrevolution.org/dental.html

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: folk1e
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:03 PM

Hmm .......
The Star Wars refrence was on of Yoda's ..... ".... and that leads to the dark side"
Live long and prosper is the traditional (in Sci-Fi) greeting or farewell with the "Double Vee" salute! The Vulcan race had eschewed emotion in favour of logic. Maybe I should have been clearer?

.......I'llsethee?    (it is a brittish 80's TV thing)

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 01:03 PM

UKers appears here fairly often.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:55 PM

Just for the record, George Washington never had wooden teeth. His denture was made of ivory. Hippo tusks to be precise.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:53 PM

Hi, Jacqui: Nah, no such thing as being "too much of a pedant"! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:35 PM

"what is the collective noun for those who live in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland? Is it British?"

There isn't one, really." Kevin

There isn't one for the USians, either.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:34 PM

Hey - Sharon! I thought that too but didn't want to be too much of a pedant. :)

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:27 PM

(Psst! Folk1e! "Live long and prosper" is from Star Trek, not Star Wars! "May the Force be with you" is the Star Wars phrase!)

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: folk1e
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:23 PM

I think that this could so easily have descended into an argument with no solution. It was therefore a brave act on the part of Joe!
Reading between the lines, I think there has been a genuine effort to solve (or at least start to solve) some of the problems here. This in itself is an arguement for both behind the scenes fixing of problems and of front of house good (ish) behaviour by individual 'catters!


Well done guys (seriously)!

I am with Joe in the belief that you become corrupted when you use the tactics of hate. I knew there was a good educational reason to watch Star Wars (Grin)........ live long and prosper!

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:09 PM

"I can almost always tell when I am being intentionally insulted."

Me too. I'm a Yorkshireman (and a cittern player) so I've had a lot of practice.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 12:01 PM

I thought Brits were from Yurp. As such, they'd be Yurpins.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:59 AM

I can almost always tell when I am being intentionally insulted. I NEVER thought of the term 'Mur'kin or Mer'can...whatever... as anything but a sort of Southern or rural pronunciation, and/or as a way to poke gentle fun AT them or at some aspect of being in that culture.
I NEVER associated the term with 'merkin', the pubic wig.

In the same way, I have NEVER used 'Brit' in an insulting way, but merely as shorthand when I meant 'all you folks over in that batch of islands'.

What I do is assume that I am NOT being insulted, until it is clear that I am. It is a LOT of work to keep track of ALL the little things someone might object to. I know the really offensive ones, and avoid them.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:49 AM

Whats all the hype about. Isn't this what a Merkin is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

Incidentally, I call you people over the water "Yanks" or "Americans". I use "Yanks" Because I can't be bothered to type "Americans".

I don't mind being called a Brit or British or English. I do not like being called, Scottish, Irish or Welsh, becuase I am not.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:39 AM

"Brits are soccer hooligans!!"

Not all of us, Sharon. Some of us are CRICKET hooligans!! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: SharonA
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:35 AM

"Finally, on the subject of Murkans*, this is what many people tend to call inhabitants of the North American continent. Until and unless you desist from referring to all inhabitants of this sceptr'd isle as "Brits" as though [we] were a bunch of football hooligans, I shall continue to do so and you can get over it."

I (an American citizen and proud resident of southeastern Pennsylvania -- GO PHILLIES!) have used the term " 'Merkun" here at Mudcat, too, and also without knowing about the pubic-wig connection. I am pronouncing it "MARE-kunn" with a pseudo-country drawl; what is the pronunciation of the term for a pubic wig? For me, the origin of the term is in that gawd-awful Lee Greenwood song: "...and I'm proud to be anna MARE-kunn, where at least I know I'm free..."   

Now that I know about the pubic wig, I guess I'd better stop using the term. Mannnnnn, it's been 233 years now, and you Brits are still tryin' to spoil our fun!   :-)

Well, shoot, I can't even say "Brits" anymore... or "British", either, apparently. "English"? "Englanders"?? "UKers" ("You-KAY-yers" or "YOU-kers"?)???

Oh, yes, and we don't consider Brits to be football hooligans. Americans are football hooligans. Brits are soccer hooligans!! :-D

SharonA, with tongue firmly in cheek

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 11:10 AM

Well like Mae West, we have certainly drifted.
Could we get back to the subject of the thread please?
Joe asked a question, and very few have answered it.
Although this thread is a fine example of what's wrong with some Mudcatters.
The inability to stick to the subject, coupled with the ability to take offence where none is intended, just about covers it.
In one pub I used to call my local, there were three banned subjects, politics, sport, and religion.
Oh how I miss that pub!

JM

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:59 AM

Please respond directly to me. I am not the contributor from Virginia. I am the contributor from Essex UK. My name is Tam or Tamara or VT or VirginiaTam, if you prefer. Take your pick. Just talk to me not around me.

If the term is, as you say, widely spread and in use among Americans, that is different. "We can poke fun because we are one."

If it is widely spread in the UK/Europe, how is it that I do not hear or see it in the UK? I have taken abuse and overheard abuse targetting Americans, F2F, on radio and telly. But not that term, except by Rory Bremner and Jon Culshaw parodying George W. They are not name calling when doing an impression. Your use is direct insult not an impression done for a laugh.

Some months ago when I first saw it used by you, I mentioned the term to a non Mudcatting, English/Catholic/Gay friend. He immediately picked up on the insinuation to pubic wig and thought it extremely insulting to Americans. Is it a gay thing, a young thing, a catholic thing? I don't think so. It is a respect thing.

I had supposed the connotation was relatively recent. Samuel Pepys mentions merkins. But was he referring to the head wig fashion or the custom by prostitutes to shave the business area and wear a wig? Rake that Samuel was, I am inclined to think the latter. I really should read him again. Been too long.

Anyway, I still don't like the term.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:50 AM

"what is the collective noun for those who live in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland? Is it British?"

There isn't one, really.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: irishenglish
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:45 AM

So many apologies on a single thread, for this or that! Well yesterday I offered my apologies to anyone I may have gotten carried away with in the heat of the moment. I freely admit to joining the fray against WAV, not for his poetry, but his inane views on music. I think I did it with a balance of humour, knowledge, and a gentle kick in the pants....but his own obfuscation got the better of me.

Joe, since you think people may not be understanding...I get your basic point-don't fight fire with fire, regarding the BNP. You certainly can't do anything outside of mudcat, be it facebook, or other web sites-and no one would expect that of you. So lets talk about here then. Lost in this murkiness of "Murkans", "Xtians" et al, has been suggestions for altering Mudcat, and some good ones at that, and I'm not just talking about mine. Someone said this place is a democracy, anythings on the table for discussion. Arguably, its not, but in a good sort of way. There are certain taboo subjects one would not expect to see on Mudcat. If a guest, or anyone posted a blatantly racist thread, or sang the praises of child porn that thread wouldn't be around long right? So that being said, I'll apologize to you and the other mods for dealing with us. In the very limited personal dealings I have had with you, I never had any problem with your response. But I still don't understand why you, and whoever else at Mudcat dont' make changes. Only major change I have seen since I've been here is no guest postings. But even that is not 100%. I appreciate the scope of the original post..but its no good saying now children play nicely when your back is turned, which because of the large number of posts on mudcat about everything, must surely be turned a lot. Perhaps a suggestion thread is in order.

I'm sorry if this is another pile of shit dumped in your lap Joe, I don't mean it to be. If you're in NYC I'll buy you a whiskey at my local with pleasure.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:39 AM

Nice post jacqui.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:19 AM

Maybe in all innocence, I always though that the use of 'Merkin' for American was derived from the Irish for 'America' : Meiriceá with Meiriceán being a straight forward translation into Irish of 'American'. I first saw 'Merkin' used on the internet by Irish (and Bretons).

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:15 AM

Snail, my recollection (I can't remember which thread it was now because there have been so many) was that when she did eventually respond to defend herself, rather weakly, with one post, piles of people subsequently leapt in. I wish I could find the thread now, but I haven't got the time to fish through them all at present.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:15 AM

I'm English, living in the USA for the past five years. I must admit that I have never heard the term 'Brit' used as anything but a collective word for the inhabitants of the British Isles, but, in spite of regular visits to the UK, maybe I'm out of touch with use of the language. It has always, to me, just been a shorthand term for British.

IMHO the use of derogatory names, when one is well aware of their impact, just because someone else has used a word that you don't like, is rather childish. Surely it is better to explain in civil terms that the word being used is considered to be offensive to you and ask that it isn't used again.

Having now experienced the culture the other side of the pond from that I spent the first 58 years of my life I have found that the people here are much the same as those in the UK. For the main part they are warm and welcoming to an outsider. In my time I have met, on both sides of the Atlantic, a lot of folk that I have had an instant rapport with. My friends are of many faiths and political views but there is respect between us, an acceptance that, whilst we may think differently about certain subjects, we can still have a valuable relationship.

The people that I try to avoid are those who are so sure that they are right, that their god is the only one that exists, that their political view is the correct one for everyone or that, in any way, they have the final answer and insist that I take the same line. Trust me, in my life I have had other people's beliefs shoved down my throat a number of times and that has left me with an antipathy toward anyone who takes that line. If, in the past, that has shown up in my posts on the 'Cat, I apologise.

I can understand where the UK 'Catters are coming from apropos the BNP. They basically are racists, who foster the idea of white supremacy. For me, anyone who embraces their ideals enough to stand for election under their banner is someone that I would have to treat with a great deal of caution.

Insofar as attacks on particular people are concerned, it is all too easy, in certain circumstances, for the herd instinct to kick in and for people to 'follow the leader' in delivering the next blow to that person. I've been guilty of that myself and, once again, would apologise. I try to stay out of threads where I might be tempted to do that, not always successfully.

I've forgotten who said it, but a great piece if wisdom I learned many years ago, is that, when one person in a discussion starts shouting, swearing and/or name calling, they have found themselves on the losing end of that discussion. At that point discussion ends and argument begins and that is the time to walk away.

I hope that this makes sense - just my opinion, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: TheSnail
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 10:08 AM

Ruth Archer

Having said that, the Mudcat responses to George when she finally raised her head above the parapet seemed not so much a proportional response to her actions, but a pissing contest in moral outrage. Again, it seemed to be more about the people involved than the issues themselves and, IMHO, did neither those people nor FaF any favours.

Really? Where are you finding that? As far as I can see, her first post to a Mudcat thread was one she started herself - BS: I am the BNP candidate in Chippenham where the initial reaction was along the lines of "Oh no, please tell us this isn't true" followed by pleas for her to see the error of her ways and get away from the BNP or, failing that, justify her decision. She never replied; she never does. Look here for all her responses.

On the BS: BNP: What would you do? thread, it was about six weeks before there was any nastiness directed at her although a great deal was said about the BNP and people insisted on wasting their time arguing with "Daily Mail Reader".

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:39 AM

if those people are taken jobs from UK poeople , why did that people
got those jobs in first place ? is it becouse the people in UK dont want to work those jobs ? I wonder .

These people who come from other countrys for work are lookin for a
better life , and they all the right in the world to do so .
I don´t have many friends here in Iceland , but half of them are
people , Bosnia , Asia , Turkey , Scotland , England , USA and
Sweden , even from Ghana in Africa, so ...... they are human
just like us ,.

BNP , shame on you .
Politics urrrr I hate them .......
All the best Skarpi Iceland .

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:37 AM

"However, "a Murkan" and "Murkans" as you use the terms are still an all encompassing willful insult to Americans as a whole,"

I've seen other American Mudcatters self-refer using this term. I had never even encountered it before I saw it used on Mudcat, and it seemed it was usually Americans using it. SO maybe it isn't meant as derogatorily as VT thinks, and perhaps Diane didn't actually mean it as an insult.

Subject: RE: BS: The problem at Mudcat? Moderated thread
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 09:34 AM

From a left-ponder's perspective, "Mer'kn", however you want to spell it, goes with the sort of jerk who says things like "I'm a g/God-fearing red-blooded Mer'kn, and I think all them ni***rs and Eye-rakies should crawl back in their caves". There are a few of them around - a lot less than others may think - and it's not an image I'd like to be associated with.