BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 05:02 PM

Wolfgang, your post shows that pedophiles tend to choose girls over boys, but that they aren't that discriminating.

It says nothing about Gay men.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:45 PM

As I pointed out before, NAMBLA is the only 'organization' I know of,by EITHER gender, that advocates having sex with children, consensual(?), that is statutory rape, or otherwise, and it is comprised pretty much of males(?). The name should tell you that itself. True..or not??

(Another obvious truth skirted around!)

Here, check it out, but for all those 'defenders', try not to get 'turned on'!
By the way, check out the 'goal' as stated by #2!! (sounds reminiscent of stuff on here!)

#1
Welcome to NAMBLA's Home Page
The North American Man/Boy Love Association.
www.nambla.org - Cached
#2
AN INTRODUCTION TO NAMBLA
NAMBLA's goal is to end the oppression of men and boys who have mutually ... NAMBLA is a political, civil rights, and educational organization. ...
www.nambla.org/welcome.htm - Cached
#

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:17 AM

The National Association of Marlon Brando Look-Alikes?

NAMBLA is a very small organization that doesn't have a whole lot of traction. The attempt to equate NAMBLA with same-sex orientation in general is not only disingenuous, it's downright dishonest.

But then, I've had to learn not to be surprised at the lengths homophobes are willing to go to.

Don Firth

P. S. I am acquainted with a fair number of people who are same-sex oriented (after all, I live in Seattle's Capitol Hill District) and I had not heard of NAMBLA until I read this thread. As I say, small, no traction.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:47 AM

Saying that the only organization like NAMBLA exists among gay men doesn't prove or even indicate anything at all about gay men. It only says something about the men who belong to and agree with NAMBLA's agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:16 AM

So, I ask again...is it all right with you?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:39 AM

Again, I have no time to respond properly, but I would remind you all, that in Wolfgang you are taking issue with a real, live, certified, statistician...who is always very precise in what he says.

The problem seems to be, that sexual attacks on young boys are very much more common than shown by the collated figures, as they often go unreported.
It is only the most high profile ones, like the "gay activists", youth organisers, religious leaders, homosexual foster parents etc which come to light.

I have not invesigated the homosexual/ paedophile figures properly, but there are statistics on line which state that in percentage terms, there are a very much larger no of homosexual/paedophiles than heterosexual/paedophiles.
Why this is so, remains a subject for debate, but the figures remain incontrovertible,
As with the homosexual/aids figures, the percentage of homosexuals in the community....now reckoned to be 2-3%, has to be kept in mind when real nubers are being thrown around.

I have to be brief and I have cited this before, but a foster father who lived near me when I was child, abused only the boys whom he fostered..... the girls were never touched, so it is incorrect to say that paedophiles are a seperate species...there are homosexual paedophiles and heterosexual paedophiles only rarely will a paedophile abuse boys and girls.

My contention is that men who indulge in the homosexual practice, have a propensity towards paedophelia, the figures available
and my observations throughout my life....lead me to that contention

I do not believe that "every homosexual is a paedophile"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:40 AM

Is what all right with me?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:47 AM

Sure, Carol..or Don...or anyone..its not a 'trick question'

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Gust from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:55 AM

Don:'P. S. I am acquainted with a fair number of people who are same-sex oriented (after all, I live in Seattle's Capitol Hill District) and I had not heard of NAMBLA until I read this thread. As I say, small, no traction.'

Well, they've been interviewed on different news shows..they're not all that unknown...

P.s. Knock off the 'homophobes' stuff, too. Can't you carry on a conversation without resorting to name calling, and presumptive assumptions??

The question was, is NAMBLA alright with you?

Simple

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:57 AM

Just to clarify why I started this thread.

It is not because I hate homosexuals, but that I think the current promotion of homosexuality as being "just another lifestyle" is completely and dangerously wrong.
There are many negatives in the practice of male homosexuality and very few positives.
The health figures, life expectancy, promiscuity, paeodophilia psychiatric problems etc etc make this a behaviour which we should not be promoting in primary schools, in fostering, or marriage.

Ignoring the available statistics because they do not suit the discredited mantra of "Orwellian liberalism" proves that facsism is alive and well on the "liberal left"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:00 AM

....and of course , that I can't spell "fascism" :0)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:10 AM

Hi, Ake, way over there across the pond!...waves

I think their stump, by the question...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:13 AM

I can't find the question. Could you please post it again?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:15 AM

ooops.....I meant, "I think they're 'stumped', by the question"

probably making them think too hard

..lets see, how do we balance honesty, with a political agenda, when we have to think that hard???

Nonetheless, I'll wait for someone to answer...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:16 AM

The question was, is NAMBLA alright with you?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:17 AM

Of course it's not alright with me. What's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:18 AM

As I said, it wasn't a 'trick question'

How come it isn't ok with you?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:22 AM

Because their whole purpose is to get the age of consent lowered for boys. I'm not in favor of lowering the age of consent for boys (or for girls, either).

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:23 AM

Ok, fair enough...you mentioned girls as well...what about an age of consent for girls?....How old is fair?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:27 AM

I need to think about it a bit before I answer that with conviction, but my inclination right now is to say 18.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:30 AM

Again, fair enough. Think it through...same with boys too....

(By the way, it was your earlier post, that caused me to ask the question, so..this is good)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:33 AM

I would point out that I don't think there should be any legal consequences for two people (either of the same sex or opposite sexes) who are both under the age of consent engaging in sexual activity together. Only when one of the parties is over the age of consent and the other one is not.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:34 AM

You still have not answered my question. It's not a trick question. Are you stumped?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:37 AM

ok, fair enough...I'm just talking to you...now you mentioned 18, and you mentioned 'legal consequences'. So, let me get your opinion on this,
Being as NAMBLA wants to lower the legal age, would it be ok then?..Why? or why not?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:38 AM

Refresh me..What was your question?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:39 AM

You still haven't answered my question. I answered yours. It's not a trick question. Are you stumped?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:39 AM

Crossposted.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:39 AM

My question is - what is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:42 AM

So, let me get your opinion on this,
Being as NAMBLA wants to lower the legal age, would it be ok then?..Why? or why not?

I already answered these questions. Why are you asking them again?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:43 AM

I'm just getting an opinion from you. There was no point, as far as to clobber anyone with. As a woman reading this thread, i thought it would be good to get ..um..perhaps a different view point, other than the one posted, by the guys...fair enough?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:45 AM

So, let me get your opinion on this,
Being as NAMBLA wants to lower the legal age, would it be ok then?..Why? or why not?

I already answered these questions. Why are you asking them again?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:48 AM

Oh, I asked the question, again, because, you said in your answer, that 18 would be better, then you mentioned 'legal consequences', so I re-asked, to see if there would be a clarification, as to 'legal', as opposed to anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:54 AM

...and, ...to be fair..the question of a minor's civil rights, would be brought up. being as someone who belongs to NAMBLA, would of course, raise that issue,...So, with that in mind as well, I didn't know for sure if that would play into your answer...would that matter?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:55 AM

I don't think two kids who have sex together should be penalized in any way.

I think that adults should not be allowed by law to have sex with kids. Not men with girls, and not men with boys, or women with boys or women with women, and not anyone with hermaphrodites. Exceptions could be made if they have parental consent to get married, but I don't have an opinion yet about the lowest age for that to be allowed. And as I said, I don't have a strong opinion about 18 being the age without parental consent. I would need to think about it a lot more before I could form a strong opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:58 AM

I have to say that the way you use commas makes it very difficult to understand your posts. A good rule of thumb for commas is "when in doubt, leave it out". Most of yours aren't necessary and they muddy your meaning and make it very difficult to discern.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:00 AM

Fair enough, then Carol. I appreciate your honesty. I've raise children, myself....so perhaps our thoughts on the matter may be enlightening for the other readers, who may not either have that experience to match up with their opinions.

(Sheeesh, I even have grand children)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:07 AM

Carol, the exchange was a pleasure! I'm going to knock off now. I'll check back in the morning. Give it some thought, if you want. I really don't bite...Unless riled(wink).

P.S. those aren't commas, but spaces, as in dialogue(script writing). I'll try to be more mindful of them......(smile)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:33 AM

The age of consent for boys was lowered to sixteen a few years ago in the UK, because it was argued that it ought to be the same for boys as it was for girls. The alternative way of achieving this, by raising the age for girls was dismissed as unrealistic.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 07:06 AM

"As I pointed out before, NAMBLA is the only 'organization' I know of,by EITHER gender, that advocates having sex with children."

I understand that in the past, the fringe Christian organisation "Children of God" (Now rebranded as "the Family International") advocated sex between adults and children. The group's publication and distribution of writings, photographs and videos advocating and documenting adult-child sexual contact and the sexualization of children led to numerous reports of child sexual abuse.

NAMBLA is an organisation with abhorrent aims that should be utterly condemned by all right thinking people, "liberal" or otherwise, straight or gay. However, they no more represent the overwhelming majority of gay men than the Children of God represented the overwhelming majority of Christians.

Ake: "I think the current promotion of homosexuality as being "just another lifestyle" is completely and dangerously wrong."

Since when was homosexuality a lifestyle?

I really struggle with this idea. I live in Manchester, which has a big and very visible gay and lesbian community. Gay friends or colleagues or acquaintances don't have a single lifestyle. They have as many different lifestyles as their straight counterparts, depending on all sorts of factors such as upbringing, politics, religious views, morals, preferences and so on. My gay neighbours, who are as good as married, hold down responsible jobs, go fell walking at any opportunity, love holding dinner parties (with gay and straight friends) and are decidely non-camp and non-scene, would be amused and horrified at your concerns about their health problems, poor life expectancy, promiscuity, paedophiliac proclivities and psychiatric problems. They certainly wouldn't recognise themselves from your description. Anecdotal? yes. Based on a real life example? Also yes.

And honing in on the "psychiatric problems" part your walk of shame, as a mental health practitioner, the vast majority of the people who my team sees identify as straight. There are also a minority of patients who have major problems arising from conflicts between their religious beliefs, family views and so on and their sexuality, and often go to great lengths to deny or repress their same-sex orientation. Is that the fault of a "lifestyle choice"?...

No doubt this will be taken as evidence of "Orwellian liberalism" rather than just a) a good old-fashioned dose of common sense or b) a slice of normal every day life.

I also think Ake, GfS et al should re-read CS's post of 06 Nov 09 02:47pm (which seems to have been largely ignored - too much uncomfortable truth, perhaps?) and reflect on the perspective she brings to the discussion: especially as she is talking about real life and not theory, ideology and so on. Child sexual abuse is a real issue affecting real children, not a tool be cynically used to promote an anti-gay agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: John P
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:04 PM

Akenaton: It is not because I hate homosexuals, but that I think the current promotion of homosexuality as being "just another lifestyle" is completely and dangerously wrong.
There are many negatives in the practice of male homosexuality and very few positives.
The health figures, life expectancy, promiscuity, paeodophilia psychiatric problems etc etc make this a behaviour which we should not be promoting in primary schools, in fostering, or marriage.

Ignoring the available statistics because they do not suit the discredited mantra of "Orwellian liberalism" proves that facsism is alive and well on the "liberal left"

Or put another way: It is not because I hate the intolerant, but that I think the current promotion of intrusive interest in other peoples' sex lives as being "just another person's opinion" or "the public has a right to stick its nose in here" is completely and dangerously wrong. There are many negatives in the prurient lifestyle and very few positives. The maiming and death of homosexuals, double standard as to who gets to be promiscuous, civil rights abuse, and irrationality etc etc make this a behaviour which we should not be promoting in primary schools, in fostering, in our laws, or in marriage.

Ignoring the available medical and psychological research because they do not suit the discredited mantra of perverted busy-bodies proves that ignorance and bigotry are alive and well in Scotland.

Besides, the term "Orwellian liberalism" is itself a great example of Orwellian doublespeak . . .

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:34 PM

"the term "Orwellian liberalism" is itself a great example of Orwellian doublespeak . . ."

Not necessarily. There is a form of conventionally knee-jerk liberalism in vogue these days which is just as reprehensible and hypocritical as its diametrical opposite...conventionally knee-jerk conservatism.

They are both based on extreme self-righteousness and extreme intolerance of dissenting views. They both imagine themselves to be the fountainhead of all that is good and decent. They both react rather than think. They react to push button slogans and cliches rather than looking deeper into the facts of each unique situation that may arise. They long for something to be outraged about. They both imagine that which they oppose to be utterly evil and that which they espouse to be utterly good.

They are therefore the mirror image of one another.

It is that form of unthinking neo-liberalism that Akenaton objects to, and it's just as common and pernicious as the recent neocon movement that is seen on the right.

They both yearn to silence all dissent and to dominate people's thinking. They are both essentially totalitarian in their basic instincts. Those who wish to establish such a totalitarian rule, of course, are not bothered at all about the peril of doing so, because they are convinced that they are the "Good" people, therefore the rule they establish could only improve things for all of us... ;-) Ha. Ha.

That's Orwellian.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:00 PM

Exactly so, Little Hawk.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:12 PM

Ake, Wolfgang may be a certified statistician, but that does not make him immune from misinterpretation of statistics. Read the two articles I linked to.

GfS, I presume that the "is it all right with you?" question you are asking is, "Do you support NAMBLA's agenda?" No, I do not. But that has nothing to do with the same-sex/gay marriage/domestic partnership issue.

And yes, GfS, it IS a trick question in the sense that you are trying to lay a trap. "If NAMBLA is not all right with you, why is same-sex orientation? Hah! Gotcha!"

No. Once again I point out that same-sex orientation and pedophilia are two separate issues, despite your repeated attempts to equate them.

I wholeheartedly agree with Spleen Cringe when he says, "Child sexual abuse is a real issue affecting real children, not a tool be cynically used to promote an anti-gay agenda." And it is most obvious that the same two people on this thread—and on others—seem to be almost pathologically interested in the sexual practices of others and feel they have the right to interfere.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:17 PM

George Orwell never actually used the expression "doublespeak". And does "Orwellian liberalism" mean the kind of liberalism which Orwell disliked, or the kind that he believed in?

"Orwellian" as used there by Little Hawk is a bit like using the term "Gandhiism" as shorthand for British Imperialism.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:43 PM

I believe the word used by Orwell was "Newspeak" Mr McGrath and "Orwellian liberalism" is not liberalism at all, but fascism dressed as liberalism.

Just as Little Hawk has described it.

Getting back on topic, I think that the lovely and intelligent Carol could have a point in suggesting that all men may have a propensity to paedophelia.
If that is the case, why are there so many more homosexual than heterosexual paedophiles....in real percentage terms.

I think the answer may lie in the fact that heterosexual sex, with its emphasis on procreation and "the family" contains many natural and moral laws on our behaviour. Homosexuals on the other hand have thrown away the rule book, they do not feel constrained in their conduct as do the vast majority of heterosexuals with a "mate" or children....This could also explain the shocking homosexual promiscuity figures.

Going back "off topic" for a moment, it seems that the American "people" as opposed to American "liberals" may have called time on the promotion of homosexuality, when Maine became the 31st state to block homosexual marriage......The wheels have fallen off the bandwagonHERE

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:58 PM

2488.

Think you guys can clue it up soon?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:25 PM

Wolfgang, Kurt Freund's research is not accepted by everyone as reliable. CLICKY #1 (Don Firth)

Don, what please is the logical relation between this clicky and the sentence before it? Have your read what you have linked to? Freund is mentioned only once in the clicky in a very positive way.

By the way, that website is partisan.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:37 PM

Not men with girls, and not men with boys, or women with boys or women with women (Carol)

Do I spot here the hidden lesbophobia or just a minor slip?

Wolfgang (grin)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:51 PM

Technically speaking, McGrath, you're quite correct in what you say about the term "Orwellian"....but I should think that what I actually meant when I used the term "Orwellian" in the context of this discussion should be crystal clear. I meant a political movement that is fascist in its basic intentions, intent on accumulating power in the hands of a small and privileged elite, intent on reducing civil liberties, muzzling free speech, and establishing greater, more centralized control over the media and the society in general. Such systems are happy to achieve their elitist power objectives either through capitalist or socialist means....but in the case of the capitalist means, it is done through huge financial entities (banks and corporations), NOT small business.

One of the most effective means of securing the above is to divide and conquer the public by raising highly emotional and divisive issues such as: sexual roles, abortion, religious differences, partisan differences, gender-based conflict, racial differences, and cultural differences.

A divided and angry public will waste most of their energy fighting with each other over those emotional issues (most of which are incapable of resolution) while the Orwellian power structure extends its control over the entire public and cashes in on people's inability to distingush their real enemy...the richest people at the very top of the pyramid. The greater the public divisions, the more impetus is given to increasing police and military powers and reducing civil rights...and that moves the entire society in the direction the controllers desire.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:52 PM

200!!!

Where's my free ticket to Wrestlemania? ;-)