BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 07:33 PM

Kevin, I understand all that.

I am using "Liberal" in the classical sense. Most thoughtful American liberals hew pretty closely to that definition. Although, within recent years, because many American politicians who style themselves as "liberals" could be more properly referred to as "centrist," so those who correctly regard themselves as classical liberals tend to refer to themselves as "Progressives."

The essential tenets of classical liberalism are fairly succinctly spelled out in the early paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence, and further delineated in the Bill of Rights (first ten amendments to the Consitution).

Dennis Kucinich is a classical Liberal. But most Americans think of him as a Progressive.

I am not talking about what might be called "relative liberalism," where a conservative may be slightly more in favor of certain classical Liberal ideas than most of his conservative colleagues. In the relativistic context, if one were given to irony, one could refer to the storm trooper who, out of a rare spasm of humanity, allows someone to escape rather than hauling them off to the concentration camp as a "liberal fascist."

But I don't think that's what Ake is talking about. He's trying to say that liberals ARE fascists.

In the same way he's trying to claim that all homosexuals are pedophiles.

Talk about Orwellian double-speak!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 07:35 PM

The most insideous symptom of a Fascist regime or ideology is its need to suppress dissent, freedom of speech and opposition to its goals.
This symptom is glaringly obvious in the current "liberalist" ideology.

In the absence of liberalism being a vehicle by which corporations control the government, it's not facism. So in what ways is liberalism a vehicle by which corporations control the government?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 07:52 PM

Carol...It's unfair to try to engage me in a heated argument...it would be just like shooting myself in the foot!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 07:56 PM

She didn't - she very accurately distilled your point and asked you to explain how it works.

I know you are ignoring me - I'm not expecting an answer.

I'm just enjoying helping you to make a public ass of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 07:56 PM

How would it be a heated argument for you to answer my question? I feel pretty un-heated, myself.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:01 PM

Further more, how does identifying Homosexuals as likely paedophiles help us to stop this liberal/corporate/fascist state from trampling all over our freedom of speech in the horrendous way demonstrated on this thread ...

... allegedly.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: sing4peace
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:02 PM

I feel a need to point out that while everybody has been talking about fascism and liberalism and chasing red herrings all around the place, we have completely ignored a very personal testimony offered by fellow Mudcatter - Crow Sister. She took the risk of sharing something personal and very painful in hopes of contributing something besides rhetoric to this conversation.

Thank you Crow Sister for that piece of courage. Your testimony here got lost just as the stories of the other victims who are too often powerless and without a voice.

I heard you.

Thank you.

Solidarity from a sister who has been there too -
Joyce

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:03 PM

According to Benito Mussolini (and he ought to know), the term "corporatism" is preferable to "fascism" because in the corporate/fascist state as he envisioned it, the government and the corporations were completely integrated. Hence the symbol of the "fasces" a bundle of sticks, symbolizing the corporations, tied around a battle axe, symbolizing the power of the State.

It is the liberals and progressives who are trying to keep the United States from becoming a fascist state.   It is the corporations that are trying to control the government. The current battle over health care, with the insurance companies trying to dictate the terms, is a good illustration of the struggle.

Ake's grasp of the facts are tenuous at the best.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:05 PM

Pardon me.

"Ake's grasp of the facts IS tenuous at the best."

Least Ake gleefully correct my grammar and try to claim that he's answered all questions.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:08 PM

Right, Joyce. Let's get back to the subject of this thread.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:12 PM

"Thank you Crow Sister for that piece of courage."

And from me too.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 08:44 PM

"I think the answer may lie in the fact that heterosexual sex, with its emphasis on procreation and "the family" contains many natural and moral laws on our behaviour."

You know to test this asssertion I think you should do three things.

First - Go to a nightclub and work out the percentage of boys on the pull who are looking for a wife with whom to raise a family and compare that to the numbers loking for a one night stand.

Second - in the morning drop by the family planning centre to count the numbers of girls picking up the morning after pill - and find out what percentage are doing it for the first time ...

Third - go down to the abortion clinic and find out how many young girls there are down there having their little inconvenience removed - and again find out how many are doing it for the first time.


Whilst at the family planning centre or the abortion clinic, see if you can see any evidence whatsoever of the "fathers" of the unwanted embryos being there to offer assistance or indeed trying to persuade their sexual partners to keep the children.

I suggest you'd have better luck finding them the next might looking for another girl in another bar.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 10:34 PM

Are you-all ignoring the scientific evidence and conclusions recited in that NYT piece which argues that there is, in some ways, a higher quality of child-raising to be found in same-sex couples? Doesn't that kind of kick all this bullshit in the brainpan? Wake up, Murika!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 11:21 PM

Maybe because the NYT is as reliable as a cardboard rubber!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 12:27 AM

For your consideration:Homosexuality and Pedophilia: The False Link

From the article:

Rarely does a pedophile experience sexual desire for adults of either gender. They usually don't identify as homosexual-the majority identify as heterosexual, even those who abuse children of the same gender They are sexually aroused by youth, not by gender. In contrast, child molesters often exert power and control over children in an effort to dominate them. They do experience sexual desire for adults, but molest children episodically, for reasons apart from sexual desire, much as rapists enjoy power, violence and controlling their humiliated victims. Indeed, research supports that a child molester isn't any more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 01:11 AM

"the symbol of the "fasces" a bundle of sticks, symbolizing the corporations, tied around a battle axe, symbolizing the power of the State."

In interests of accuracy, not a 'battle axe', but an executioner's axe: the fasces were originally carried before the Roman consul as a symbol of his power to punish [by flogging with the rods], or even to behead, non-conforming citizens.   I think the point is worth making to emphasise that the essence of fascism is to enforce conformity to the state's requirements by any oppressive means available; rather than simply to spread the ideology by warfare, as taking the axe for a battleaxe presumably implies. The very term "fascism" ∴ means absolute power of the state to prevent dissent by means of institutionalised violence against the non-conforming individual.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 01:16 AM

Ted, This is your link...Did you actually think that a 'Gay' blog link was going to shed light on this subject objectively or accurately?? Shit, send it to NAMBLA(North American MAN/BOY Love Association).

Blogs
Gay's Anatomy
An insider's look at gay culture and identity.
by Joe Kort

It would be really something to watch their re-action!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 01:26 AM

MtheGM: "the symbol of the "fasces" a bundle of sticks, symbolizing the corporations, tied around a battle axe, symbolizing the power of the State."

(Not sure they symbolize 'the corporations' per se)

Oh?..You mean those symbols that flank the podium in Congress???...and on our currency.

Some people never knew that, or what they were.

MtheGM: "The very term "fascism" ∴ means absolute power of the state to prevent dissent by means of institutionalized violence against the non-conforming individual.?"

You mean 'Democracy' is an illusion??..as described by Little Hawk, in an earlier post, and several of my posts during that past 'election'???

Wow! What a news flash! But, nonetheless, you are right!!..and there are a lot of slow learners out there in Kumbayah-Land!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 02:29 AM

GfS - the first part of my last post that you quote was actually my quoting of a *previous* post to draw attention to its inaccuracy — I was pointing out that it was not a battleaxe but a headsman's axe.

As shown on your currency &c, they are just a symbol of the power of the state, as used by the Romans; but in adapting the name for the movement called 'fascism', the 'fasces' did, as I pointed out, come to symbolise the power of the state to suppress dissent by oppressive means.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 03:10 AM

And presumably they aren't "tied" to a "battleaxe".

I'd imagine that that was a central part of the fascist metaphor.


Ake seems to be implying that the new symbol is one of a load of Fasces tied around a homosexual liberal.

... hang on - I might fascinate ... er ... disgust him with that image

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 11:35 AM

Ok, ..thanks for the clarification

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 12:55 PM

Speaking of clarity--the article from the Times cites several scientific journals, not just a lot of opinion as seems to be the case here, GFS. WHich is then the more reliable?



A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 01:38 PM

Thanks for the clarification, MtheGM. I was unaware that it was a headsman's axe, and assumed from it's appearance that it was a battle axe (the two look pretty similar in most respects). The headsman's axe makes for a more consistent symbol, actually.

As to: "(Not sure they [the sticks] symbolize 'the corporations' per se)," GfS, what I cited came from a direct quote by Benito Mussolini. And as I said, if he doesn't know, then who does?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 02:32 PM

There seem to be two different discussions diverging here, one about political labels and ideologies, and one about issues to do with paedeophilia and about homosexuality.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: jacqui.c
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 02:44 PM

One thing that really puzzles me - why does the sexuality of another person bother some people so much? What effect do they think that it will have on them, that they have to make such a fuss about the fact that two people of the same sex have strong physical feelings for each other?

Can anyone answer that?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 02:50 PM

"Can anyone answer that?"
Probably insecurity in their own.
Jm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 03:35 PM

I think it largely a matter of projection. Of what, varies from one person to another. Abuse, regret, who knows what. But the spurious accusations are surely signs of some kind of a confession. IMHO.


A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 04:14 PM

McGrath: 'There seem to be two different discussions diverging here, one about political labels and ideologies, and one about issues to do with paedeophilia and about homosexuality.'

Tho 'political', in reference to homosexuality issues were raise by Don, from which I have repeatedly posted that the topic of paedeophilia should be stuck to.

As far as the Fasces, I believe that was another issue(read: topic), reintroduced by Don. It seems that he has issues, yet to resolve, on this matter, which I also suggested to him, that if he wants to broach that subject, that he should do so on another(Prop 8) thread.

I agree that the original topic should be the one discussed, however, being as the name of this thread is, "RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,"

Paedophilia is paedophilia. In this particular case, the crime was done by a homosexual 'activist'. It seems silly and ridiculous to try to justify homosexuality, and introduce political views of that subject, and now have a 'tug of war' trying to separate those two facts, as if to say, one is totally exclusive of the other! Of course, not all homosexuals are paedophiles, and to argue otherwise, is also silly, and ridiculous. That being said, 'Wolfgang' introduced some stats, that show that the percentages of paedophilia, was higher among homosexuals, than those of non-homosexuals. Does anyone remember, what I posted in the 'Prop 8' thread, that the 'tip off' to counselors, to probe into the sexual preference of a patient, was 'emotional immaturity'??

Whether anyone may or may not agree(ignorantly, as well) as to whether or not, that suits their political 'views', is completely 1rrelevant to the truth. Matter of fact, the more one wants to argue that fact, the deeper they demonstrate their boneheaded stubbornness, as to accepting a simple truth. Another simple truth is paedophiles, of either sex, more often choose those to whom are less 'challenge' to them...easier prey, than dealing with an adult, to whom they, the paedophile, would have had to develop a maturity, to deal with, on a mature level. Note: the recent rash of teacher/student incidents, or clergy/child, adult/child victims, to name a few. They need the 'advantage', over their prey/victims.

The fact that I posted that earlier, and now this incident, should be indicative, that my earlier post, was not random, but part of an ongoing pattern, which is well known in the counseling world! Yet still, no matter all the proof in the world, there still are those who argue their pro homosexual views, as if it it is relevant, in this case!! NOTE: IN THIS CASE...get it?..got it?...good!..GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 04:34 PM

"It seems silly and ridiculous to try to justify homosexuality, and introduce political views of that subject"

No-one has - they have responded to ake's original comments on the subject of "promoters of homosexuality" and his impliacation, later literally confirmed, that homosexuals have a natural propensity to paedophilia that heterosexuals don't have.

Finally, Wolfgangs statistics turned out not to show that gay men are more likely to be paedophiles, but that paedophiles are twice as likely to choose girl victims over boys.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 04:41 PM

GfS, the civil rights of a minority group IS a political issue, so it's relevant to this discussion. HOWEVER—it was Akenaton's persistent use of the expression "liberal fascist" that actually focused the matter on the use of political terminology.

It was Akenaton who diverted the thread, not me.

But I know why GfS is particularly fond of getting on my case. From a bit of information he posted on the Prop. 8 thread, he knows I have his number—I know why this matter, especially the question of choice versus heredity, is so scary for him.

If anyone has unresolved issues around here, it's GfS. And that explains a lot.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 04:56 PM

Don, permit me to extend your sentence.

"it was Akenaton's persistent use of the expression "liberal fascist"" to draw attention away from the argument which he started but is unable to actually engage in "that actually focussed the matter on the use of political terminology."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 05:02 PM

Don, from another thread I think that GtS is female. More's the pity.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 05:06 PM

"Don, from another thread I think that GtS is female. More's the pity."

Oh Ebbie, Need anyone say more...Don "has my number"...(rolls eyes)..
Actually, I have his..but I'm still being polite!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 06:10 PM

Not a chance, GfS. You see, on the terms you're trying to conjure up, I have no number to get.

Polite!?? Sheesh!!

If you have something to say, spit it out!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 06:53 PM

Don;

Don't let yourself be drawn, man. This is one of those exchanges that pretends to be a conversation but isn't, if you know what I mean.


A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 07:17 PM

Gotcha, Amos.

He/she (whatever) bitches about me taking the thread off-subject, and that's exactly what he/she keeps doing.

With both GfS and Ake, they'll do anything to muddy the waters and try to divert attention from the real point, which is the civil rights issue.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: John P
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 10:33 PM

Don F, I understand and share your desire to confront people who are sniping at you, and to stand up to people who would deny civil rights to others. However, a quote I sort of remember from some science fiction book might be appropriate here: "If you listen to the barking of dogs you will go deaf and learn nothing".

Face it, GfS is consistently illogical and usually incomprehensible. Just be glad we don't have to go through life with such poor thinking and communication skills; he/she can't be able to form much of a relationship with anyone. Akenaton can communicate better, but he is lost in his bigotry, and has had all his statements on the this subject proved wrong many, many times in many, many ways. He, for whatever reason, is unable to admit it or to apply any real reasoning to this subject.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 03:56 AM

Gotcha, Amos.

He/she (whatever) bitches about me taking the thread off-subject, and that's exactly what he/she keeps doing.

With both GfS and Ake, they'll do anything to muddy the waters and try to divert attention from the real point, which is the civil rights issue.

Don Firth

Paedophilia, the topic of this thread, .....is a civil rights issue???????????????

That's the real point???????????

I'm diverting attention????????????

Ok, Don, anything you say!!!!

P.S. Have you been drinking?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 04:07 AM

JohnP: "Face it, GfS is consistently illogical and usually incomprehensible."

May I suggest completing the third grade, before making such silly assertions??

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 05:26 AM

"I don't care what they do, as long as they don't do it in the streets and frighten the horses." Dame Campbell.

My question goes un answered, Why do the homophobes care? As Jacqui asked, what makes other peoples life choices anyone elses business?

Where is the threat? what is the source of their fear? Someone suggested that they are not sure of their own sexuality.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 06:57 AM

Reports on BBC news yesterday:-

"CHILDLINE", the charity which supports abused children in a confidential telephone setup somewhat akin to the "SAMARITANS" organisation, has recorded a huge increase in the number of boys coming forward to report sexual abuse by adults.

Guess what?.....Most of this increase involves FEMALE abusers!

Check it out! Reports of abuse of boys by males (homosexual or heterosexual) have shown NO equivalent increase.

Two facts emerge from this:-

1. There are many more heterosexual female paedophiles than has been previously apparent.

2. Paedophilia is about AGE, not sexual orientation.

Somebody needs to retrench, and reconsider his hard wired need for gays to be criminalised, given that gay paedophiles are a tiny minority of the gay population, just as hetero paedophiles are a tiny minority of the hetero population.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 07:13 AM

For fuck sake Amos! is that the best you can do?
Sanity says he/she has grandchildren and I have four grown sons.

and why am I being referred to by some here as the OP.
Surely everyone here knows who I am by now.....even if half of you can't understand what I mean, or what I say

The important thing is that the tide of public opinion seems to be ebbing away from the promotion of homosexuality in schools, fostering and the institution of marriage.
That must be a good thing, for all the reasons Sanity and myself have presented in the various threads on this subject
(Kendall just go back and read the threads if you want to know why we care)
and finally there is nothing on any of the threads to suggest that either of us "hate homosexuals"

Personally, I am against the PROMOTION of homosexuality to our children either in primary school, in foster homes or within marriage.
People who wish to practice homosexuality should be free to do so, but the serious problems which come with homosexual practice...for society and for themselves, should not be airbrushed out by a bunch of wooly headed "liberals",just because it is deemed politically incorrect to speak the truth and examine the statistics....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 07:18 AM

I'm so sorry Amos my old friend...My first sentence referred to Kendall.......I should have known you would never use that old chestnut.
Sincere apologies .A.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 09:33 AM

The increase is in children reporting abuse by females to Childline.
NSPCC research indicates that only 1 in 20 abusers are female.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 09:52 AM

""NSPCC research indicates that only 1 in 20 abusers are female.""

Out of date research!

CHILDLINE gets its figures straight from the abused themselves, and the latest info is just one DAY old.

The figure now is many times larger (approaching 20%....ONE IN FIVE)

Check it out on the BBC website.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 10:07 AM

Here is the original press release.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/whatwedo/mediacentre/pressreleases/9_november_more_children_telling_childline_wda69526.html

It explains some of the complexities.
It is careful to include the previous NSPCC findings.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Amos
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 10:36 AM

First, the original assertion was that there was a link, presumably causative, between pedophilia and homosexuality. Second, the original assertion included the notion that homosexuality was being promoted, particularly in schools and on this forum.

The facts are that there is no evidence of any causative link between homosexuality and paedophilia, and to the contrary, homosexual parents are often found to be better parents than their heterosexual colleagues.

The facts are that in the main there is NO promotion of homosexuality, but there IS a promotion of a doctrine of tolerance and a respect for individual nature. There is a strong campaign to rid any public discussion or policy on the subject of the mindless associations and hatreds which are the earmarks of irrational thought based on generalizations without data, blind fear-mongering and hatred.

The conflation of the two subjects was started in the original post by choosing one aberrated individual and using him (because he was a gay activist as well as a pedophile) as a touchstone for linking the two conditions out of all proportion to reality.

THese are the facts, your honor.

This was cheap and poor rhetoric aimed at reducing rather than increasing understanding. That is my opinion.

A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 10:55 AM

"The facts are that in the main there is NO promotion of homosexuality, but there IS a promotion of a doctrine of tolerance and a respect for individual nature."

Ah, but Amos, that is the part they don't understand.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 12:07 PM

"The important thing is that the tide of public opinion seems to be ebbing away from the promotion of homosexuality in schools,"
"there is NO promotion of homosexuality,"
Spot on - though there is plenty of effort being put into a leap back to the dark ages of intolerance - and all the misery it brings, as evidenced here, quite often by so-called Christians (no answer yet to my " intereating point" akenaton?)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 12:56 PM

300!!!

Thank you, thank you.